Fantastic Four (Spoilers, maybe?)

[AnonymousSpeed]

So, last night, I went to go see the new Fantastic Four movie with my uncle. It was sort of impromptu, he just offered to see a movie and I picked Fantastic Four because my uncle is a good guy to have a critical discussion with. See, I'd intended to see it with my father instead, so opening week I checked the reviews and found it averaged roughly six out of ten or so.

Skip forward a bit, my uncle asks what movie I want to see, and when I answered Fantastic Four, he checked the reviews to find...8% on rotten tomatoes, and 2.7 on...metacritic I want to say. Because bad movies are always fun to talk about, we went anyway, and found that, counting us, there were maybe 15 people in the theater. So, we sat down to watch the movie...and it was actually pretty good. We walked out feeling pretty satisfied, really, but looking up the movie a second time found that it had dropped almost 80% after opening weekend.

I mean, don't get me wrong, it has it's problems. It's not a perfect movie, I wouldn't even go so far as to call it a great movie, but a bad movie? A terrible movie? A less than one out of ten movie? Not in the slightest. And my uncle agreed, he doesn't get why people think this movie is so bad either. And it can't be just because of Michael Basketball Jordan, there's no way simply changing a character's race could generate as much universal hate as this movie has been getting.

So, world, tell me, what do you think of this movie? And why do people think it's that bad?

[Lord Raven]

I'm not one to talk, but a lot of those ratings seem to come from people who keep comparing the details to the comics in the sense that they changed a lot of details around... which isn't a legitimate complaint in my opinion but it is what it is.

[Water Mage]

If you knew what behind the scenes of this movie, you would hesitant to like this movie.

And I'm not talking about Fox's desperate attempt to keep the rights.

Honestly, to me, the movie had no soul.

I'm the kind of guy who tries not to be biased and I ignored what happened behind the scenes and what others have said about the movie being horrible before watching it for myself, but I still disliked it

My problem with movie, was that a lot of things were a mess, and they were trying to hard to be badass.

The group had no chemistry, the pacing was confusing and it dragged on a lot.

Of course this is my own opinion, but I'm curious:

What did you like about the movie? What do you think the movie did right?

I'm not really trying be sarcastic here, I'm geniuely curious about what were your reasons for liking the movie.

Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, though I'm aware that my questions probably sounded condescending, I really tried hard not to.

The internet is such a confusing place at times.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Water Mage

[Lord Raven]

Well, he mentioned that it was more mediocre than like... less than a 1/10.

[Knight]

I haven't seen it yet, and I probably won't until it comes to Netflix or something, but the major complaint I hear, or at least the one that stood out to me, is that it's ashamed of its source material. The Fantastic Four are never really called by name, the costumes and locations are colourless, and Dr. Doom isn't the scientist/sorcerer/dictator hybrid that no movie has yet had the balls to take seriously. Not sticking to the source material is one thing, some of my favourite Superhero movies bend the comics a lot, but being ashamed of what it is your adapting isn't a good way to make a movie. This movie was really just a cash grab to keep hold of the Fantastic 4 rights anyway, and they relinquished the rights of Daredevil to Marvel, guess that really backfired.

[AnonymousSpeed]

Well, he mentioned that it was more mediocre than like... less than a 1/10.

I wouldn't call it mediocre really, even. As I said, it's not great, but it's not bad. I wouldn't say at any point my experience watching the film was unpleasant.

If you knew what behind the scenes of this movie, you would hesitant to like this movie.
And I'm not talking about Fox's desperate attempt to keep the rights.

Well, I did some quick research, and...eh, not such a bother to me, really.

Of course this is my own opinion, but I'm curious:

What did you like about the movie? What do you think the movie did right?
I'm not really trying be sarcastic here, I'm geniuely curious about what were your reasons for liking the movie.
Seriously, I'm not trying to be rude, though I'm aware that my questions probably sounded condescending, I really tried hard not to.
The internet is such a confusing place at times.

Not an issue, I get ya. In my opinion...

My problem with movie, was that a lot of things were a mess, and they were trying to hard to be badass.

Eh, I didn't feel the movie was trying to hard to be badass. Honestly, at least early on, it actually had a very 'silver age' feel to it. It's not the tightest movie, but I was still able to follow it pretty well, I don't think it was a particularly messy film. That might be because I don't have the same definition of 'messy', but it didn't feel like stuff was being dropped and brought back randomly. I wouldn't say it tried to hard to be badass, to me at least. Yeah, it had darker moments, like where the people got their powers. That scene was violent, and traumatizing, but it made sense within the context of what it was and what it's purpose was. It had little bits of humor spread throughout, and there wasn't really much of angsting in it.

The group had no chemistry, the pacing was confusing and it dragged on a lot.

I can actually agree with that part, except for Reed. I thought Reed had pretty good interactions with the rest of the characters, especially Ben and Johnny. In fact, he's probably one of the better characters in the movie. One thing I quite like with what they did with Reed Richards was that they made him less...infallible, I suppose. He may be smarter than anyone else in the room, but maybe not everyone else in the room.

I actually thought the movie rushed at parts. The first half was pretty well paced in my opinion, with bits of rushing in the middle and end. It could have benefited from maybe an extra half hour, I thought, or something my uncle mentioned which is very true: Not being one movie. I mean, I think it works as one movie, but playing the Doom card that early isn't a great idea in my opinion, they could have built Doctor Doom up more and, in a later movie, focused more on him. Of course, I doubt there was confidence in getting a sequel, and the idea of one seems unlikely now, which is a shame. I actually wouldn't mind seeing a continuation of this, but hey, that might be because I didn't hate the movie.

Now, things I liked? Well, again, I liked Reed Richards. He was awkward without being cringe worthy, scientifically minded without having no awareness of the world around him, and while I wouldn't say he seemed like a leader, he did have a sort of...sociability about him which makes it certainly believable he'd be friends with the other three. I think, in general, little touches of personality in this movie appeal to me, there's a lot of tiny interactions throughout which are just little moments of people being people. It's a small example, but that scene near the beginning where they just have a little exchange about a toy car works really well, I think. It shows that these two characters are friends, and capable of error, it was a little comedic touch, even if it wasn't that funny. It added some character.

I also thought the movie had good ideas in terms of it's structure. It's not a movie where I'd look at the bullet points of the plot and have tons of problems with it. A lot of the concepts I actually quite like, and while it's not the comic book version, I like the angle they tried to take with Doctor Doom. Doctor Doom was also pretty badass, a late but notable highlight to the film in my opinion. The casting was pretty good as well, I thought.

I haven't seen it yet, and I probably won't until it comes to Netflix or something, but the major complaint I hear, or at least the one that stood out to me, is that it's ashamed of its source material. The Fantastic Four are never really called by name, the costumes and locations are colourless, and Dr. Doom isn't the scientist/sorcerer/dictator hybrid that no movie has yet had the balls to take seriously. Not sticking to the source material is one thing, some of my favourite Superhero movies bend the comics a lot, but being ashamed of what it is your adapting isn't a good way to make a movie. This movie was really just a cash grab to keep hold of the Fantastic 4 rights anyway, and they relinquished the rights of Daredevil to Marvel, guess that really backfired.

I'm honestly not broken up about the Fantasticar only being referenced, but that's a good point. I do prefer the outfits with the fours on them, but at the same time, within the context of the film's story, I buy them not having the suits or being called the Fantastic Four. They really aren't a team until the very end, so it makes sense they'd not have the team suits. I can also understand the reluctance to have Doom as he is in the comics, but honestly, there were enough elements of the original Doom here, though I again think the character needed more screen time. His powers were rather magic like, he had the genius and egotism of the comics, and his design was, in my opinion, fantastic, I think they really had a good angle for the reason Doom looks that way and just nailed it. The movie did in general suffer from a lack of superhero action, but I also think that you don't have to have a bunch of action if the non-action is good.

[Lord Raven]

I wouldn't call it mediocre really, even. As I said, it's not great, but it's not bad. I wouldn't say at any point my experience watching the film was unpleasant.

Mediocre as a definition varies from person to person. I believe mediocre's a firm 4/10-6/10 type of movie.

[Water Mage]

I see, and I agree with you about Reed, he was a good character.

My problem was that, with all them being teenagers, the family dynamic that the Fantasic Four had was lost, and that bothered me.

And I totally agree with you and your uncle, it feels like I watched two movies instead of one, maybe that's why it dragged in for me, if it were two, Doom would have gotten a much needed character development. And the reason why the second half if the movie feels different, is because they had a different director.

Also read this, it's the reason I have issues with the movie's production:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fantastic-four-blame-game-fox-814764?utm_source=twitter

Oh, and they are making a sequel, they were already planning to make a sequel even before the movie was released, and still are planning to make it, despite this first movie's bad reception, they are desperate to keep the movie rights.

Edited August 16, 2015 by Water Mage

[AnonymousSpeed]

Mediocre as a definition varies from person to person. I believe mediocre's a firm 4/10-6/10 type of movie.

Mediocre to me means comfortable below average, and I would say this was at least average. It might be in part due to my bias towards superhero movies, though.

I see, and I agree with you about Reed, he was a good character.

My problem was that, with all them being teenagers, the family dynamic that the Fantasic Four had was lost, and that bothered me.

And I totally agree with you and your uncle, it feels like I watched two movies instead of one, maybe that's why it dragged in for me, if it were two, Doom would have gotten a much needed character development. And the reason why the second half if the movie feels different, is because they had a different director.

Also read this, it's the reason I have issues with the movie's production:

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/fantastic-four-blame-game-fox-814764?utm_source=twitter

Oh, and they are making a sequel, they were already planning to make a sequel even before the movie was released, and still are planning to make it, despite this first movie's bad reception, they are desperate to keep the movie rights.

I think a lot of the problems could have been fixed by the 'two movies' angle, really. Not having to fight Doom in the first movie allows more time to build the relations between the characters, and gives them time to process the incident, which provides some good material for character development. It also would give a ton of build up for Doom, I mean, come on, imagine a post credits scene where they reveal him, it would have been amazing. I mean, you don't necessarily need to have a fight with a supervillain in the first movie, it's traditional but breaking the mold could open up a lot of possibilities, especially when they were already planning on a sequel in which you can have Doctor Doom be, well, Doctor Doom.

[Magical CC]

It's bad, but not "The Last Avatar" level of bad. It's just really...boring, especially when you compare it to the current standard of "super heroes" movies. Not to mention the previous F4 movies were not that bad and this remake is actually worse than the previous movies. In my book, mediocre is a 6/10 to 7/10 type of movie, anything less than 6 is trash and not worth to watch. I rate this movie...6 out of 10, borderline trash but still watchable.

And of course, changing a character's race also affects my rating. I am an Asian, why should I have to endure the damn America races war when it has nothing to do with me? I dont remember paying to watch the BLM propaganda! Or are there any significant meaning of changing a white guy to a black guy especially when it also changes the relationship of the characters? Bring your god damn BLM propaganda back to your country!

Edited August 19, 2015 by Magical CC

[BBM]

You're watching an American movie. If you don't want to watch movies where American issues are at the frontline, then don't watch American movies...

The acting in the movie was generally subpar; none of the actors got a hold of the characters (disappointing because they've all had some really good roles in other work). The pacing was off as has been mentioned, the plot doesn't make a lot of sense, the writing was bad, and it was cheesy without being very charming or humorous or endearing or exciting like most good superhero movies are. It just wasn't enjoyable.

I didn't get incensed with the casting choice for Johnny as some others did, but the entire point of the choice was that it was supposed to be like a "look how forward-thinking we are; we don't take race into account in our casting decisions!" except then they tried to shoehorn racial difficulties into the story anyways. Johnny's dad tells him he's never had it as easy as Sue, even though he grew up well-off and brilliant and with the freedom to do whatever he wanted. Not saying that rich people can't face racism, but really?

And all of that doesn't take baggage into account. Disregarding the behind-the-scenes drama, even. Formation stories aren't why anybody watches superhero movies, so why did I spend the entire first half of the movie watching one? Especially when I already watched something similar ten years ago? And it wasn't even a better version of it. Also, the movie was an adaptation, and that means something. Adapted movies don't have to adhere perfectly to the written source material (LotR is one of the best and it makes big changes), but they should still capture the same themes and messages of the source work. As Water Mage said, the F4 is supposed to be about family- they're the only superhero family in comics. If I'm not getting the sense of a family or really anything about the comics beyond the most surface level, what am I even watching? I know most movies of this kind are just the producers trying to milk a lot of cash, but I'd at least like to be able to entertain the idea that it's more than that.

Reboots in general are almost universally unappreciated when they come this soon after the original, even if the movie is good, which this wasn't. You know why Jurassic World did so well despite having essentially the same premise as Jurassic Park? Jurassic Park 3 was 14 years ago, so people were able to watch it as its own movie. They were able to appreciate all the tie-backs and references to the old movies without being tired of it. Even the Spiderman reboot failed, and it at least tried to do new stuff by having new villains and a new heroine and stuff, although those movies also suffered from pacing and writing issues (the acting was better though). Other successful reboots are generally Bond-type franchises where the movies really don't have anything in common other than a character with the same name and set of skills.

Also, you can't really translate Rotten Tomatoes' % ratings into a score out of 10. The % ratings are based on how many critics liked it as opposed to didn't like it. 8% just means that only that many critics liked it- the actual rating is 3.4/10.

[Magical CC]

You're watching an American movie. If you don't want to watch movies where American issues are at the frontline, then don't watch American movies...

It's my fault. I couldnt wait for 30 minutes to watch UNCLE so I told my friends "why dont we watch F4 instead, that girl seems hot" and the worse is that all of us agreed.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Magical CC

[Knight]

This movie shouldn't have been made at all in my opinion, no movie that's made solely to keep hold of an intellectual property is going to have any sort of care towards it. It's not like anyone wanted to make this movie for any reason but to prevent Disney/Marvel from profiting off its characters again. Meanwhile, comics with characters that other companies own are getting cancelled or the characters themselves being killed off, so this really just adds insult to injury to all those Fantastic 4 fans.

Personally, I just want to see Dr. Doom in the Avengers played completely straight.