Snowy_One Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 (edited) With the recent flare in tensions that could, very well, become all-out war between North and South Korea... Well... What are your thoughts? What do you think of the two Korea's? Would you support one or the other if a war happened? What of the potential aftermath? MODEDIT: plurals don't use apostrophes you philistine Edited August 23, 2015 by Integrity Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lantairu Posted August 22, 2015 Share Posted August 22, 2015 The South is just fine. They have a right to their land, and a right to defend it. However, I think firing 29 shells in response to 2 was not a very good message. Can't really say anything about the North that hasn't been said. Kim Jong Un's in his own little selfish, childish world and thus is creating a terrible environment and one of the most hated (and ridiculed) countries in the world. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 i think its time for some democracy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Personally I think things are going to either blow up very soon or not for a long time. The real problem isn't the South, which is a very modern nation in a multitude of ways, but with the North and its... difficult... position. It's people are held in check by an iron dictator whom they are willing to die for; yet the constantly suffer famines and the like. If they got the food and stability they might very well attack, but if they get none they might pressure an attack or revolt just as well. But... I suppose my real question... When war breaks up, would you be willing to support one or the other or seek to distance yourself entirely? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Well most North Koreans aren't even aware they live in a ditatorship... It seems they think that Kim protects their way of life and culture from the evil Western/American Empire. --- I'm not sure... I'm a pacifist... I don't want a military intervention. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 If war broke out and I was old enough, I would join the army. Of course, it would probably be over before I deployed, but a war against North Korea is one I would gladly fight. I would absolutely love it if North Korea attacks, because then China probably wouldn't intervene, and we could destroy North Korea with impunity. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 I would gladly fight for North Korea... by fighting for South Korea. The north is an impoverished, destitute, nation almost literally trapped in the past in a world where even thinking wrong can result in your entire family being imprisoned in inhuman conditions. I am not physically capable to fight but I would happily lend my support to helping the north free itself from such a monster. However his grip upon the North is such that destroying him would also destroy the North and so much has become... pure, unadulterated, hate for the world outside. If war comes what matters most is not the battle, but the aftermath. There will be many resistance hold-outs as well as a world simply ravished. Abandoning them will only harm the situation more. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Hmm well... Kim pretty much brainwash these people into thinking they've the world's highest standards of living... What I would want is South Korea to annex North Korea or just getting rid of that crappy government. (Wishful thinking I know) Edited August 23, 2015 by Naughx Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sasori Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 I think the North Korean goverment is smarter then people give them credit for. Don't get me wrong they're still absolute monsters who deserve to be overthrown, but I doubt they could maintain their position this long if they really where bumbling idiots, While Anexation would be very nice for the north Korean people its also something very unlikely to happy. South Korea would have to pump such an amount of money into the dirt poor North Korea that it would be a huge drain on their recoursces. China also would't allow it since they're not in the mood of a lot of North Koreans actually crossing their borders when the regime does fall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 As of now, two major things have happened 1) NK Troops and artillery have mobilized along the border 2) Majority of NK sub fleet have left port Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 Do you have a source? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Naughx Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 While Anexation would be very nice for the north Korean people its also something very unlikely to happy. South Korea would have to pump such an amount of money into the dirt poor North Korea that it would be a huge drain on their recoursces. China also would't allow it since they're not in the mood of a lot of North Koreans actually crossing their borders when the regime does fall. Well West Germany had to pump alot of money into East Germany... They're still quite of strong now... (But I know that NK is way more poor than East Germany was) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Celice Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Do you have a source? http://english.yonhapnews.co.kr/news/2015/08/23/0200000000AEN20150823003100315.html http://www.koreatimes.co.kr/www/news/nation/2015/08/485_185362.html http://www.rt.com/news/313141-north-korea-submarines-artillery/ and more--just follow some news hubs on Korea relations Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Yeah, reconstruction is going to be messy, but North Korea is one of the few situations where warlord ism is preferable to the status quo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Snowy_One Posted August 23, 2015 Author Share Posted August 23, 2015 It's also possible for the US and/or Japan to foot the bill, but doing so would be a massive upheaval. Even if America was willing to do so a lot of its citizens would go all Iraq on us and want us to pull out believing we're doing more harm than good. Thankfully there is a clear goal and victory condition. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Well, Iraq was different because first of all we struck first, and it's pretty obvious NK is the aggressor here. Second, Saddam wasn't as bad as the Kim's. At least his victims died hating him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwalin2010 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 If war broke out and I was old enough, I would join the army. Of course, it would probably be over before I deployed, but a war against North Korea is one I would gladly fight. I would absolutely love it if North Korea attacks, because then China probably wouldn't intervene, and we could destroy North Korea with impunity. That's weird, wishing for a war to happen. Do you realize we are not living in a computer game, but in real life where every innocent death is a tragedy? It's not like you would have a chance to kill Kim Jong Un anyway, he would probably weasel his way out as as most important scumbags do and even if not, is all the mess and rivers of civilian blood that would flow really worth it? Iraq today is even worse than under Saddam, it's a good example of what happens when war is used to solve a dictatorship problem. If you really have to kill Kim, let the CIA send an assassin after him or something. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 That's weird, wishing for a war to happen. Do you realize we are not living in a computer game, but in real life where every innocent death is a tragedy? It's not like you would have a chance to kill Kim Jong Un anyway, he would probably weasel his way out as as most important scumbags do and even if not, is all the mess and rivers of civilian blood that would flow really worth it? Iraq today is even worse than under Saddam, it's a good example of what happens when war is used to solve a dictatorship problem. If you really have to kill Kim, let the CIA send an assassin after him or something. Every innocent mind that suffers intellectual enslavement to Kim Jong Un's cult of personality is a far greater tragedy than every innocent who dies. This isn't about killing Kim, it's about destroying the most evil society to exist since Nazi Germany. I can't see a war against North Korea leading to a great deal of civilian death, given the dismal state the North Korean Amy is in. Even if there is a great amount of civilian death, it will be worth it to liberate the people of North Korea. Finally, North Korea is in a completely different situation from Iraq, as firstly there is an obvious authority to take over from the government after it's defeat in the form of South Korea, and secondly there is no wide variation of factions to step in to the post Kim power vacuum other than the South Korean government. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwalin2010 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Every innocent mind that suffers intellectual enslavement to Kim Jong Un's cult of personality is a far greater tragedy than every innocent who dies. This isn't about killing Kim, it's about destroying the most evil society to exist since Nazi Germany. I can't see a war against North Korea leading to a great deal of civilian death, given the dismal state the North Korean Amy is in. Even if there is a great amount of civilian death, it will be worth it to liberate the people of North Korea. Finally, North Korea is in a completely different situation from Iraq, as firstly there is an obvious authority to take over from the government after it's defeat in the form of South Korea, and secondly there is no wide variation of factions to step in to the post Kim power vacuum other than the South Korean government. Usually such dictatorships are based on ONE individual. Once Stalin died, the Soviet Union wasn't the same, it slowly became disgregating and becoming more moderate (compared to the 30s at least). So, if Kim Jong Un gets killed, maybe the regime crumbles upon it self with time, and South Korea could take over with time anyway. I don't think war would be the right solution just because it's a quicker method. The methods involving less deaths are always better. Maybe you are right there wouldn't be many deaths due to the state of the North Korean Army, but I absolutely disagree that IF there were many deaths, it would still be worth it. A brain-washed person can be recuperated, they don't deserve death, they are victims of the regime in a way. Edited August 23, 2015 by Dwalin2010 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) So, how big was the catastrophe when Kim Jong Il died? Because by your logic, all hell should've broken loose. Edited August 23, 2015 by eclipse Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 That has been proven to be false in the case of North Korea. When Kim Il Sung and Kim Jong Il died, they were succeeded by their next of kin. The same will happen with Kim Jong Un. Also, it is subjective what will cause less death. The longer North Korea exists, the more innocents get killed in concentration camps. War seems inevitable, so it would be better to have it sooner than later for this reason. And the worst,option of all is North Korea continuing to exist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwalin2010 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 So, how big was the catastrophe when Kim Jong Il died? Because by your logic, all hell should've broken loose. But it's all the same family, isn't Jong Un the last one of them? Or do you think he has already prepared a successor who would be able to continue in the same way? If it's so, then my mistake, sorry. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blah the Prussian Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 (edited) Kim has several brothers. None of the, are all that stable, admittedly, but when has Communism ever been stable? Edited August 23, 2015 by blah2127 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 But it's all the same family, isn't Jong Un the last one of them? Or do you think he has already prepared a successor who would be able to continue in the same way? If it's so, then my mistake, sorry. I'd be VERY SURPRISED if Jong Un didn't have a successor in mind. IIRC, Jong Il also had multiple children, so another one of them could take up the "throne" should Jong Un drop dead unexpectedly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dwalin2010 Posted August 23, 2015 Share Posted August 23, 2015 Well, Eclipse squashed your,first argument, so let me try to do the same to your second. This can end in two ways: either North Korea goes to war with us and gets stomped, or it continues to exist. Now, no one wants it to continue to exist, so war has to break out sooner or later. Sooner is better than later here, as the later war breaks out, the more people are killed in concentration camps. Makes sense? It depends on who would succeed Kim Jong Un. If it's another dictator of the same kind, then it would be bad of course. But if it was somebody moderate who could change the country by merging with South Korea for example, then a peaceful process would be better than a war, don't you think? If this is unlikely, than again, my mistake. But, to make a comparison, the discussion somehow reminds me of when the emperor Frederick II just "bought" Jerusalem from the Sultan, the Pope objected because the "liberation" of Jerusalem can't be considered as such without a war and severe and firm action. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Join the conversation
You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.