What is it that you dislike about Fire Emblem?

[Loki Laufeyson]

Hehehehehehehehehheheheheheheheheee...this can of worms....it got opened and i didnt do it for once!

The only thing I really don't like about the franchise is what the fanbase became post-Awakening. And I'm not talking about those who joined the fanbase with Awakening.

Holy shit, this right here wowowowow. This fandom has become downright hateful, and the majority of it is coming from people who call themselves "veterans". People have no fucking chill, i swear.

The fanbase.

*nod*

Fandom, thats not a freaking suggestion either.

I have to partly disagree and even say its apparent on here sometimes, with how heated and stupid some discussions get.

Yes. And the constant negativity. Some of the things ive seen some users here say are actually really offensive, gross blanket statements about other people who play a different way. (like Casual mode)

Best answer in the topic so far:


And my answer:

The sheer amount of whining I see about the games, especially those that haven't been released (whether it's "not released at all" or "not released locally" is another matter). Seriously, if a game is that bad/offensive, WHY POST ON A BOARD DEDICATED TO SAID GAME?

The other issue I have is how other fans are being treated. Most of you on SF are pretty good about treating the new guys right, so thanks for that. However, I think that badgering people for the following:

- starting with Awakening
- playing on Casual instead of Classic
- not playing on anything harder than the easiest mode
- grinding
- other trivial things that are literally personal preference regarding how the game is played

need to cut it out. All it does is make the FE fanbase look whiny and immature.

Considering theres people here who do all of above (despite the numbers being small), id have to agree with all of this.

Fandom, guess what. You dont have to like things, and you dont have to like how the new game is. But you should never vilify others for liking the things you do not like. If i hear one more statement like "Anyone who doesnt mind the fanservice in Fates is a gross asshole who is everything wrong with the world today" im going to go freaking nuclear. People may not care about the fanservice, but may very well understand why others do. So get off their freaking backs.

Actual gameplay stuff: i dont like how luck based some things feel. An element of guesswork is expected, but some things just...like the BK fight in FE9 is pretty goddamn luck based. Even with a good skill set up on Ike, its not always in the bag. :U

Id say gender-locked classes but Fates seems to be dealing with that. I wonder if it sticks.

FE story always following the pattern of "political struggle to Dragons Destroying Everything" plot. Like, i like the political aspect a lot. Im ok with a larger threat. Im also ok with dragons always showing up in the series somehow. But im kinda bored with Dragon Is Major Threat plot. Thats one reason why i love Tellius and Magvel's stories the best.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Considering durability was mostly superficial in every game up till now, I don't really see the issue.

I mean staves still have durability and arguably thats the only thing it really worked for before, otherwise its a cheap gimmick to make you not use what weapons you want to due to some mindeset that you have to conserve it all.

Although it makes funds rank stuff interesting.

In my most recent playthrough of 7, I found that I could not use seven different lance-users. I had to pick and decide if I wanted to use Heath and Florina, or Fiora and Oswin, etc. I had to save lances because if I used too many, they'd all break sooner, and I didn't have the funds to buy a ton of lances since you also need swords, axes, etc. The durability mattered.

[twice]

^^ Very much agreed Loki and Eclipse ^.^ . And as stated prior I said there wasn't really anything I disliked. However, I do not like gender exclusive classes (not really important though if you as me); but, IF seems to be dealing with that and I appreciate it. Hopefully the newer installments will please more of it's fanbase in the future. But you can't make everyone happy. (so I just say: people should play the FE games they do enjoy and stop hating on other games in the series.)

Edited September 6, 2015 by ♡黒猫~

[Anacybele]

Uh, forgive me here, but I can't seem to understand why anyone has a problem with marriage... It's been around since the series started, since Marth canonically married Caeda and stuff. And reasons like only because of a lack of same-sex pairings? Fates just gave you guys some. And I don't even think there are a lot of homosexual people in real life. I've certainly met only a few. So it's perfectly realistic for the majority of the characters to be heterosexual. Also, a same-sex marriage can present conflict if there's a second generation, particularly involving children that have to inherit something from a parent for plot-related reasons.

Speaking of which, I'm actually only fine with a second generation if it's more like FE4 instead of Awakening's stupid time-traveling ridiculousness. Not only do I think time-travel is cheesy and uninteresting, the children don't even feel like they really are those of the first gen. They came from a different timeline, they're not the actual kids that the couples will give birth to, as shown by baby Lucina's existence. And that's not really fun.

And my answer:

The sheer amount of whining I see about the games, especially those that haven't been released (whether it's "not released at all" or "not released locally" is another matter). Seriously, if a game is that bad/offensive, WHY POST ON A BOARD DEDICATED TO SAID GAME?

The other issue I have is how other fans are being treated. Most of you on SF are pretty good about treating the new guys right, so thanks for that. However, I think that badgering people for the following:

- starting with Awakening
- playing on Casual instead of Classic
- not playing on anything harder than the easiest mode
- grinding
- other trivial things that are literally personal preference regarding how the game is played

need to cut it out. All it does is make the FE fanbase look whiny and immature.

I agree with all this, and would like to add badgering for not playing the Japan-only games. I've been a victim of this because I don't want to emulate. It's not that I'm uninterested in them (except for FE6), I just want them to be localized in some way first.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Anacybele

[Alex95]

Swearing is bad...? I mean Ike and Tibarn do it too. Not really a "recent" thing.

I'm merely curious as to why. That's all.

To my knowledge, yes. I just feel it hurts the family-friendly aspect of Nintendo's policy. Sure, stabbing enemies with swords and lances isn't exactly "family-friendly," but Link can do it just fine without the suggestiveness. I understand FE's need to be different, but I don't feel that this is the way to do it. It's mainly a morality or chastity thing. I'm not too fond of the same-sex marriage, either.

Compared to the characters in Awakening, Ike doesn't swear that much. Then again, I've only played PoR, so :P

[Loki Laufeyson]

Ana, i think they are saltier about Avatar marriage kinda dominating the current game(s) in the series, not pairings themselves. I can see their point, because Avatar marriage is making things make less sense between characters and writing, just to make sure they can marry everyone in the game. I think everyone is usually fine with really good written supports between characters that wind up married at the end of the game and junk like that.

[Jave]

To my knowledge, yes. I just feel it hurts the family-friendly aspect of Nintendo's policy. Sure, stabbing enemies with swords and lances isn't exactly "family-friendly," but Link can do it just fine without the suggestiveness. I understand FE's need to be different, but I don't feel that this is the way to do it. It's mainly a morality or chastity thing. I'm not too fond of the same-sex marriage, either.

Compared to the characters in Awakening, Ike doesn't swear that much. Then again, I've only played PoR, so :P

Play RD. They actually say "Damn it" there.

[Jedi]

To my knowledge, yes. I just feel it hurts the family-friendly aspect of Nintendo's policy. Sure, stabbing enemies with swords and lances isn't exactly "family-friendly," but Link can do it just fine without the suggestiveness. I understand FE's need to be different, but I don't feel that this is the way to do it. It's mainly a morality or chastity thing. I'm not too fond of the same-sex marriage, either.

Compared to the characters in Awakening, Ike doesn't swear that much. Then again, I've only played PoR, so :P

I can see where you are coming from. I was merely curious on your stance, I hope I didn't come off rudely.

In my most recent playthrough of 7, I found that I could not use seven different lance-users. I had to pick and decide if I wanted to use Heath and Florina, or Fiora and Oswin, etc. I had to save lances because if I used too many, they'd all break sooner, and I didn't have the funds to buy a ton of lances since you also need swords, axes, etc. The durability mattered.

I can see that, I guess I've just gotten to the point of knowing the games way too well. My apologies for the resistance to your comment.

[Nintales]

I'm really nitpicky, and I don't think there's a FE that doesn't annoy me at something, but that's pretty much to a lesser or harder extent :

- FE2 : It's really good (for the support it had, it's really innovative and it pleases me a lot to play it), but it's so slooooooow. I love though the features in it, it was really well done.

- FE3 : The map design. Oh gosh I hate this map design. However it has a really good difficulty. I just remember my Ironman run (following Terra's example) and lol how many units were lost in that one.

- FE4 : Chapter 2. Flipping. Chapter. 2. My whole disliking of this game comes of it. While everything's done well, I hate chapter 2. The longest chapter in the game, and the map design is just boring to death.

- FE5 : Ambush Spawns. This game has a tendency for ambush spawns that compells you to either savestate or read a guide in order to live. Also Xavier's recruitment. It's just boring.

- FE6 : Low character balance. This is a thing that's quite annoying me, but I hate it when for levelling up Wendy in hard mode, I get to face 59% hitrate with a javelin. Just screw that. Sophia's even worse at this.

- FE7 : Kinda boring imo. The game's not that hard, even in HHM, and it's just boring.

- FE8 : Wasted potential. Whether it's in the history, or in the difficulty, this game has pure wasted potential. If they ever make another remake or sequel of a game, I wish it's FE8 for there's so many things you can do there. It brought back nice features from Gaiden, but unlike Gaiden, grinding's way easier in there. (Gaiden grinding is tedious, there, it's just "send a unit in the first stage of the ruin, kill the boss, get a level, rinse and repeat")

- FE9 : Too easy. Though I didn't play maniac, but it seems quite adapted to me, from a playthrough I've read. So yeah, this game's good. Great story, great characterization, all I love.

- FE10 : Weird character balance. I'd say that any character's usable as long as you give them favoritism. It has really, really nice features in it by the way. Story's kinda eww however.

- FE11 : Beginning of a "bad" mechanic : reclassing. And also bad character balance and all the good mechanics from FE10 out. That was just weird.

- FE12 : FE11's issues, along with bad map design. At least the game's hard. +Avatar.

- FE13 : Pair ups. And Avatar again. And the Lunatic mode. And reclassing. And Children. And recruiting Tiki/Emmeryn/Gangrel because why not. If you get rid of all of those and play hard mode, I can tell this is the most enjoyable FE I've ever played. I've done all kinds of playthroughs in Hard-Mode Classic and I didn't get bored most of the times.

I'd say though FE12 and FE13 has the thing for the most issues.

I think though FE12's the worst. Playing in Hard Mode made me realize how good is enemy positioning and the map design in FE13.

I also dislike the fact FE13 got a waifu simulator, but while some supports are just like "hello marry me, you see, anything I've done in the other supports, that's because I love you. Now marry me plz." you have deep and funny supports.

So it's... Kinda balanced.

I'd have loved though most of options were like Sumia and Chrom, therefore having characters that can only marry a few ones.

And no ChromxCordelia is BS.

But imo that's as BS as no MistxRolf ending.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Nintales

[Alex95]

I can see where you are coming from. I was merely curious on your stance, I hope I didn't come off rudely.

Not at all.

[Lantairu]

Speaking of which, I'm actually only fine with a second generation if it's more like FE4 instead of Awakening's stupid time-traveling ridiculousness. Not only do I think time-travel is cheesy and uninteresting, the children don't even feel like they really are those of the first gen. They came from a different timeline, they're not the actual kids that the couples will give birth to, as shown by baby Lucina's existence. And that's not really fun.

I agree with you, except time travel has been done well. Actually, my favorite movie and game involve time travel (that being Back to the Future and Chrono Trigger).

[Anacybele]

Ana, i think they are saltier about Avatar marriage kinda dominating the current game(s) in the series, not pairings themselves. I can see their point, because Avatar marriage is making things make less sense between characters and writing, just to make sure they can marry everyone in the game. I think everyone is usually fine with really good written supports between characters that wind up married at the end of the game and junk like that.

Ohhh. That makes more sense to me then. I just needed a little clarification.

And people have an issue with swearing in the games? Okay, I'll be honest, I don't like when someone swears a lot either, and that's the only thing that irks me about characters like Sully. But a little of it is okay to me. I mean, Ike says the word damn, even at least once in PoR (if he dies in the Endgame, he's like "Damn, I... After all this... Elincia, please forgive me...") and I never cared. I actually kinda thought it made him seem more grown up and serious to use that word every now and then.

I don't approve of, say, excessive use of words like ass, shit, fuck, etc. Which I don't think I've actually seen those words in the series at all. Sooo...I just don't see the issue?

But imo that's as BS as no MistxRolf ending.

Join the club... RD lacked a lot of paired endings I wanted, and even expected to see. I'll always be salty about that to some extent. But thank goodness for fanfiction and stuff.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Anacybele

[Irysa]

The series doesn't incentivise fast clears enough or punish turtling.

I think it also goes without saying that I dislike the way the franchise has shifted to becoming a series that doesn't really seem to aspire to be more than just indulgent entertainment.

[Azz]

Emm, here I go then:

1.Reclassing: I never liked it in 11 or 13 and still don't like it now that I have played 14.I may sound hypocritical when I say this since I will admit, I use it, but from a story and character point of view, it does not work IMO.

2.The removal of the Magic Triangle:This mainly goes for Light Magic, but I feel with the removal of it, it really made magic unbalanced and Sorcs were OP as hell in FEA.I like how FE14 has it now that the only restricted tome is Nosferatu and has it in the triangle but yeah, I hope FE15(I know, still a long way a way)has the good old magic triangle back.(And Monks too.)

3.Marriage in FE14:Mainly directed at the fact of kids existing and not needing too, I feel marriage was only in the game for more waifus and while I liked it in FE13 cause it made sense story wise(Well somewhat)but in FE14 it offers nothing new but a chapter and supports that for the most part are generic(In the mothers/fathers case)or just used to play out more of a child's gimmick.(Which all the children seem to be based around)

4.The large cast:This always annoyed me in every FE game I played.IMO, there is too large a cast for me to get attached to any character unless they are a Lord, the main Villain(Whom I always told to hate), a plot-character or just one I like based on appearance and supports.I get that they need to have more characters to have different uses(Such as Cain v Abel for an example)but I really thought the large casts of FE6, 10 and 12 were very uneeded, especially when so many were so unbalanced.

5.The fanbase:Many have already explained, so I shall not delve further.

EDIT: Also might I point out Avatars.I am not a huge fan, I just feel they don't work in FE.I like self-inserts in general but FE just does not work, especially Kamui.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Azz

[Dark Sage]

- FE12 : FE11's issues, along with bad map design. At least the game's hard. +Avatar.

I think though FE12's the worst. Playing in Hard Mode made me realize how good is enemy positioning and the map design in FE13.

*snicker*

Anyway, I suppose the worst features to me are the Avatar and Marriage w/children for pretty much all the reasons listed. My Castle features also look unappealing and rather pointless. I wonder why they didn't go for a Suikoden style base.

On another note, the fanbase isn't any worse than most video game/manga/whatever fanbases, so I wish people would stop acting like babies about it (see: Loki).

[NoNameAtAll]

Fanbase. I feel like I'm in a microcosm of the Sonic fanbase. I think you know the implications of such a statement. But holy shit are the parallels apparent.

Also folks? Magic triangle died with Shadow Dragon. Don't fault Awakening for that bit.

[IceBrand]

I'm curious: Why do some miss the magic triangle? Mages hardly did that much damage to each other and Light magic was just weaker Wind tome.

[Loki Laufeyson]

On another note, the fanbase isn't any worse than most video game/manga/whatever fanbases, so I wish people would stop acting like babies about it (see: Loki).

Nonsense. The FE fandom has a tendency to be extremely homogeneous, lacking demographic diversity. For years, its been the standard teenage boy into anime who likes the series. More women got into the fandom over time, but mostly otaku/weeb sorts. Awakening drew in a bunch of different people into the series, and people who arent just into anime. The fandom isnt being accommodating to that, telling these new people that the way they are playing the game(s) is wrong. Or they are to blame for whatever new feature in the upcoming game(s) being present that they dont like. Fandoms of all sorts have issues, but this one's happens to be push-back to people liking the thing they like. Which is fucking ridiculous in a series that, for years, has been so terribly niche.

People arent being babies about it. They are simply pointing to the elephant in the room.

[The DanMan]

Marriage, 2nd gen, and the series direction, for reasons that have been already said.

As for the fanbase, the Gamefaqs and Reddit groups can go **** themselves. SF is mostly nice; yeah, there's a few jerks, and there've been some stupid shitstorms, but for every elitist jerk there's somebody who's extremely nice and active in the fandom.

[maybe]

honestly, i don't have a problem with the fanbase

it can be bad, but every fucking fanbase can be, and this isn't even that huge of a problem (just look at this place)

but fanbases are irrelevant

to go with a recent and current problem that immensely bothers me and prevents me from fully enjoying the game

the knight armor looks dumb and so does their walking animation so i don't use knights

[Irysa]

Nonsense. The FE fandom has a tendency to be extremely homogeneous, lacking demographic diversity. For years, its been the standard teenage boy into anime who likes the series. More women got into the fandom over time, but mostly otaku/weeb sorts. Awakening drew in a bunch of different people into the series, and people who arent just into anime. The fandom isnt being accommodating to that, telling these new people that the way they are playing the game(s) is wrong. Or they are to blame for whatever new feature in the upcoming game(s) being present that they dont like. Fandoms of all sorts have issues, but this one's happens to be push-back to people liking the thing they like. Which is fucking ridiculous in a series that, for years, has been so terribly niche.

People arent being babies about it. They are simply pointing to the elephant in the room.

Whilst I think you're right about some of this, you're also drawing somewhat bizzare conclusions from what I can only assume to be anecdotal evidence. If I could counter, I'd say that from my perspective, the amount of obnoxious weebs in the fandom has significantly gone up since Awakening. Certainly, it's not like weebs were exactly rare before, but a lot of the vitriol from the older crowd tends to be directed towards people who take pride in their weeb powerlevels and define themselves by it instead of simply having it as an interest. Of course, that's not to say that old weebs are getting mad at new weebs for being weebs, there's a multitude of reasons for that (you outlined a few) but trying to present the current situation as a community that was predominately weeb-centric now pushing back against non-weebs is simply untrue.

EDIT: Also, I agree with Dark Sage that most long running franchises have elitist tendancies amongst their fanbases. Not that this is neccessarily good or excusable, but it isn't exactly an isolated or exaggerated problem with this specific series.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Irysa

[Dark Sage]

Nonsense. The FE fandom has a tendency to be extremely homogeneous, lacking demographic diversity. For years, its been the standard teenage boy into anime who likes the series. More women got into the fandom over time, but mostly otaku/weeb sorts. Awakening drew in a bunch of different people into the series, and people who arent just into anime. The fandom isnt being accommodating to that, telling these new people that the way they are playing the game(s) is wrong. Or they are to blame for whatever new feature in the upcoming game(s) being present that they dont like. Fandoms of all sorts have issues, but this one's happens to be push-back to people liking the thing they like. Which is fucking ridiculous in a series that, for years, has been so terribly niche.

People arent being babies about it. They are simply pointing to the elephant in the room.

So like

how is this different from any other long running video game fanbase? actually, it's better off than zelda's or sonic's fanbase because there are more people willing to say positive things even about the games they don't like.

basically if I'm understanding you correctly, it's that there are elitists who don't like a lot of the newer fans and treat them with contempt. In other news, water is wet and the sun will explode long after everyone in the world is dead.

EDIT: and what Irysa said too.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Dark Sage

[Carmine Sword]

That IS is bad at character balance.

Like, in FE8 for example, you get units like Amelia, Ewan, and Marisa, who join with bad stats and are generally outclassed by other units you've had for several chapters beforehand. Their bad starts would tend to lead people to believe that there must be some sort of reward for putting up with their mediocrity. I mean, why else would they be there? IS would never put superfluous units in their games, right? But they still end up bad even with a bunch of effort put into training them.

On the other hand, you have units like Seth who have pretty much no drawbacks. I mean, Seth has the best availability in the game, 8 move, great bases, great weapon ranks, and good affinity for supports. Surely IS wouldn't give you a character this good from the very beginning without there being some sort of drawback, like low growths or something. But then it turns out that Seth has not just good growths, but arguably the best overall growth rates in the game. (Ephraim is the only other unit I can think of with growths comparable to Seth in Sacred Stones) Like, did anyone at IS stop and consider this to be a bit too good?

Don't even get me started on how over-centralizing the Avatar is in Awakening due to Veteran, or how the Knight class is flawed on a fundamental level in the majority of games. (I haven't played FE14 yet fyi.)

I like Fire Emblem and all, but balanced characters is not its strong suit.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Carmine Sword

[Radiant head]

Nonsense. The FE fandom has a tendency to be extremely homogeneous, lacking demographic diversity. For years, its been the standard teenage boy into anime who likes the series. More women got into the fandom over time, but mostly otaku/weeb sorts. Awakening drew in a bunch of different people into the series, and people who arent just into anime. The fandom isnt being accommodating to that, telling these new people that the way they are playing the game(s) is wrong. Or they are to blame for whatever new feature in the upcoming game(s) being present that they dont like. Fandoms of all sorts have issues, but this one's happens to be push-back to people liking the thing they like. Which is fucking ridiculous in a series that, for years, has been so terribly niche.

People arent being babies about it. They are simply pointing to the elephant in the room.

Unless you actually run statistical studies on people who purchase Fire Emblem games, you're making gross, meaningless generalizations about the Fire Emblem fanbase. If anything, the otaku-type fans came after Awakening pandered to them. Otherwise, Fire Emblem in the west was mostly attractive to a subset people who played Nintendo games like Zelda and especially Smash (or other non-Nintendo tactical games like FFT), but there's not much demographic analysis you can do beyond that.

Join the club... RD lacked a lot of paired endings I wanted, and even expected to see. I'll always be salty about that to some extent. But thank goodness for fanfiction and stuff.

I doubt this was the actual intention, but Awakening almost feels like an apology for RD's paired ending options.

Edited September 6, 2015 by Radiant head

[The Geek]

Maybe I'm just not looking in the right places, but I don't see these "weeaboos" that everyone complains about. There's maybe one or two guys in the youtube comment section whining about their "waifus" but beyond that I don't see anyone like that. It's the veterans hating on Awakening and Fates because of those people that I see everywhere.

And on the subject of the thread:

While RNG is a critical (heh) part of FE's gameplay, the fact that your whole game can be ruined by one bad RNG roll (especially in longer chapters) is always a pain.

Basically every game is horribly imbalanced in terms of the different characters and their usability, though some games are definitely worse than others. Big reason why I'm skeptical of PvP in Fire Emblem.

I'll admit I'm not too hot on FE-amie, hot springs, and some of the more fanservicey designs in Fates and Awakening.