FE: Fates survey result will be revealed in this week's Famitsu

[Anacybele]

I know, it can be hard to know what should be kept hidden and what's okay not to spoiler tag when a game has only been released in one region so far. I would just spoiler everything since it's better to be safe than sorry. :P

I myself can't wait to play the game so I don't have to worry about spoilers... xP

[Thor Odinson]

Basically my thoughts on the sibling marriage is that, it should NOT have been included. I acknowledge that I myself have a thing for the lobster, but I don't really project that on to Kamui as a standalone character. I think the quality of the game would've been improved if the siblings are unromanceable.

HOWEVER, because they already did include it, the damage is done, might as well take advantage of it. Since the plot is kinda a mess and Kamui a shit anyway, I can just compartmentalize that bit out. Honestly, a part of it is also the stats issue. If they didn't fuck up Rinka's stats that bad I wouldn't even consider Kamui. If they let Ryouma marry Crimson or actually S rank Marx I also wouldn't consider Kamui.

Serious, though, Rinka's a far more relatable character than Kamui for me. If only she had her rightful +3 str tacked on to those abs.

...well, almost. 6str 5skl on shinonome and the hoshido/nohr set would prolly tempt me anyway

tl;dr i'd rather it's not an option but since is fucked up and put it in i'm not gonna deny myself the option

Edited September 13, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[Gomez_Addams]

Basically my thoughts on the sibling marriage is that, it should NOT have been included. I acknowledge that I myself have a thing for the lobster, but I don't really project that on to Kamui as a standalone character. I think the quality of the game would've been improved if the siblings are unromanceable.

HOWEVER, because they already did include it, the damage is done, might as well take advantage of it. Since the plot is kinda a mess and Kamui a shit anyway, I can just compartmentalize that bit out. Honestly, a part of it is also the stats issue. If they didn't fuck up Rinka's stats that bad I wouldn't even consider Kamui. If they let Ryouma marry Crimson or actually S rank Marx I also wouldn't consider Kamui.

Serious, though, Rinka's a far more relatable character than Kamui for me. If only she had her rightful +3 str tacked on to those abs.

...well, almost. 6str 5skl on shinonome and the hoshido/nohr set would prolly tempt me anyway

tl;dr i'd rather it's not an option but since is fucked up and put it in i'm not gonna deny myself the option

It's a common misconception, but abdominal muscles actually have little to do with how hard you can swing a weapon, punch someone, etc. They are mostly for support and balance.

[Thor Odinson]

It's a common misconception, but abdominal muscles actually have little to do with how hard you can swing a weapon, punch someone, etc. They are mostly for support and balance.

Did you actually take that line word for word i can't believe

that was meant to be somewhat tongue-in-cheek and you ruined it, thanks a lot

it's not like gurl doesn't have actual arm muscles either

Edited September 13, 2015 by Thor Odinson

[carefreejules]

I just kind of wish IS were a bit more 'realistic' when it came to familial/sibling relationships especially for Nohr imo. Like, if you spent most of your life growing up with these group of people that you saw as family, it's very rare to being able to switch your perspective and suddenly be OK with being in a romantic relationship with them even after finding out you're not related by blood let alone develop romantic feelings for them to begin with. It just doesn't happen; at least that's what I think.

That's one of the main reasons why I'm personally put off by this fact especially since I'm the youngest child so I have personal experience with having siblings.

Edited September 13, 2015 by carefreejules

[Ebony]

Basically my thoughts on the sibling marriage is that, it should NOT have been included. I acknowledge that I myself have a thing for the lobster, but I don't really project that on to Kamui as a standalone character. I think the quality of the game would've been improved if the siblings are unromanceable.

HOWEVER, because they already did include it, the damage is done, might as well take advantage of it. Since the plot is kinda a mess and Kamui a shit anyway, I can just compartmentalize that bit out. Honestly, a part of it is also the stats issue. If they didn't fuck up Rinka's stats that bad I wouldn't even consider Kamui. If they let Ryouma marry Crimson or actually S rank Marx I also wouldn't consider Kamui.

You kind of put this into words with my attraction to Takumi. Well, besides the fact he can S-rank the girl who has a crush on him (and one of the only characters I really think is a precious pairing for him)...

[Thor Odinson]

Yeah the one downside to Oboro x Takumi (which I love too, btw) is that Takumi doesn't get anything out of his marriage seal from her, other than using it like a regular parallel seal i guess, literally only downside aaaaaaah

At least Kisaragi kicks ass with it though

[Nyanko]

I just kind of wish IS were a bit more 'realistic' when it came to familial/sibling relationships especially for Nohr imo. Like, if you spent most of your life growing up with these group of people that you saw as family, it's very rare to being able to switch your perspective and suddenly be OK with being in a romantic relationship with them even after finding out you're not related by blood let alone develop romantic feelings for them to begin with. It just doesn't happen; at least that's what I think.

That's one of the main reasons why I'm personally put off by this fact especially since I'm the youngest of child so I have personal experience with having siblings.

This has been my mindset, too, and one reason I was sure marriage between the siblings and Kamui wasn't going to be a thing.

[ivanhellsing]

I just kind of wish IS were a bit more 'realistic' when it came to familial/sibling relationships especially for Nohr imo. Like, if you spent most of your life growing up with these group of people that you saw as family, it's very rare to being able to switch your perspective and suddenly be OK with being in a romantic relationship with them even after finding out you're not related by blood let alone develop romantic feelings for them to begin with. It just doesn't happen; at least that's what I think.

or you could ,you know not s rank anyone from your families :/

[NeptuniasBeard]

I just kind of wish IS were a bit more 'realistic' when it came to familial/sibling relationships especially for Nohr imo. Like, if you spent most of your life growing up with these group of people that you saw as family, it's very rare to being able to switch your perspective and suddenly be OK with being in a romantic relationship with them even after finding out you're not related by blood let alone develop romantic feelings for them to begin with. It just doesn't happen; at least that's what I think.

That's one of the main reasons why I'm personally put off by this fact especially since I'm the youngest of child so I have personal experience with having siblings.

It's like, crazy sudden. As soon as Kamui or other sibling learns that they are not related by blood, they just go all in. It's the sudden romance problem in a lot of these supports made even more jarring.

One issue I have with romancing the Hoshido siblings is because it kind of goes against the whole thing with Sumeragi being crazy in love with Mikoto. Like, he loves her so much that he made her queen, but he didn't even have a kid with her? He just knocked up two random women after they were already married? I know that's how kings get down, but it kind of cheapens the love angle, especially when the other siblings mothers get neither names nor faces (they're all identical looking village maidens as far as we know). They even refer to Mikoto as their mother, The whole thing just kind of comes off as contrived.

[Dollysama]

He just knocked up two random women after they were already married?

Actually, I'm like 99% sure Ryouma, Hinoka, Takumi and Sakura are full siblings.

-------------------------------------------------

I'm personally not really bothered by the fact your not related to any of the royals, although I can see why it bothers most people. It's kinda stupid how Ryouma goes on about how you're related to the hoshidan siblings, when he most likely knew from the start that you weren't. I still love you though, nii-san.

[carefreejules]

or you could ,you know not s rank anyone from your families :/

I was referring to general families but I was using Nohr as an example since it was easier for me to write a reason that had to do with actually knowing and growing up with your family.

But yeah either way, not too big one S-ranking either families.

Edited September 13, 2015 by carefreejules

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

or you could ,you know not s rank anyone from your families :/

Lol how has that got anything to do with her issue with it? It's not like she was gonna do it to begin with...:/

[Ebony]

or you could ,you know not s rank anyone from your families :/

Hilarious considering Azura is the only character who's blood related to you that you can marry.

[ivanhellsing]

Hilarious considering Azura is the only character who's blood related to you that you can marry.

companions with benefits and children is very hilarious if they going in that route in the localization and its not like is super duper important in the plot on the 3rd path

Edited September 13, 2015 by ivanhellsing

[Shadowess]

Hilarious considering Azura is the only character who's blood related to you that you can marry.

This is gonna sound mean but I'm half looking forward to see people marry Azura and then wonder why it says 'companions' instead of 'wife' because I just want to see the chaos. I'm sorry.

Edited September 13, 2015 by Shadowess

[Jakkun]

^For some reason I really wanna see Lucina!Ophelia now that you bring that to mind.

[Ebony]

^For some reason I really wanna see Lucina!Ophelia now that you bring that to mind.

[Taka-kun]

I just want to remark that I have absolutely no problem whatsoever with KamuixAqua. My concept of family is the people that you think as family, that you live with as family and that you call family. Blood-relation has less (though not negliable) meaning for me.

So it's kinda ironic that I am really outraged by Kamuix(not-blood)siblings but totally fine with cousincest Aqua. I think it's all a matter of culture. Also, not once have they ever stated to each other that they see each other as blood relatives.

or you could ,you know not s rank anyone from your families :/

I don't how long you have been around this forum but good arguments have come up against that. Just the possibility of being able to marry them means that the support writers have to make the conversations as neutral as possible to not make it feel to squicky when S-support is hit (they failed). Sometime after the game was released, BrightBow made an excellent summarization of the whole situation so I am just gonna leave his/her quote:

Options are fun and I am all in favour of that. But you cannot at one hand try to explore themes about bonds, friendships and love while at the same time allowing the player to do with his "friends" as they please. Those goals are contradictory.

Because that's the thing about friendship, marriage and all those connections between people: Relationships are not just about yourself. It's not just about what others give you. It's also about giving, to put your own desires behind their needs.

If you don't show the proper respect and devotion towards your friends and only ever consider what you want instead of ever considering the wishes of them, then the relationship will suffer for it and eventual it will simply end altogether. So on order to think and in order to learn, the player must be pushed to take the desires of others into account. Because that selfish attitude is not the beginning of relationships, it's their end.

But the characters are never allowed any agency of their own. The most beautiful moment were this was shown was of course the ending of Awakening: Sacrifice yourself and save the world or save yourself and risk and burden another generation. For your friends, this should be a difficult situation. And very person will act differently towards finding a friend in such a position.

A knight like Frederick or a ruler like Virion might believe into devoting yourself for the good of others. A commoner like Donnel might think that in such a large world, the only responsibility you have is towards friends and family. And the children might not want their own descendants to face the same horrors that they experienced themselves.

Yet everyone will tell you not to sacrifice yourself. No one will swallow their grief and accept or even acknowledge the necessity of the act. And despite that conviction, if you do it anyway, everyone will sing your praise. No one will be angry at you for ignoring their feelings or leaving them behind. They all just take turns saying their stupid line involving their little gimmick that they have in place of genuine characterisation.

And if you don't to it, everyone will cheer you up that you did the right thing. Somehow everyone is totally cool with dooming future generations. Even those who experienced the horror firsthand, who lost their friends and family to the world-eating monster that is Grima, will happily expose their children and grandchildren to the same fate.

You are given a choice but you are not given purpose. Loosing Robin means nothing to the player. What matters is how her actions affects the lives of those that live in her world. You care about these characters, so you care how your decisions affect them.

Yet by preventing the characters to have any agency on their own, by forcing them to suck the player's dick no matter what, by shielding the player from any consequence of your actions, it is denying the player's decision an actual meaning, it denies them the option of having the feeling that they are affecting the lives of the people you care about, it denies them to learn from the experience. It turns into what could be an amazing scenario that makes you think about the meaning of your life, your responsibilities and the meaning of your existence in the lives of those close to you into nothing but an empty farce.

And the decision to grope your friends or to marry or not to marry your siblings is empty for the same reason: Because the characters can't say no. You are not allowed to explore these scenarios. You reach S-Rank and you are married. The game told you that would happen before you reached your first support level. You are entitled to that. The game won't allow you to feel the weight of your own decisions by let's say: Giving you the opportunity to push your sister to sleep with you just to find out that she feels absolutely horrible afterwards since she just can't see you as anything but a brother, to give you the opportunity to reflect on your actions, to maybe come to the conclusion that you were acting selfish.

I mean, in theory this situations are interesting as heck. These conflicting emotions and desires. That's the stuff that the series should explore if it really cares about bonds. But you can't do that if the desire of the player is really all that matters and everyone will bend over backwards to tell you how great and noble you are for showing no concern for others.

[Sunwoo]

Well, Oboro/Takumi is one major reason why I don't want to pair him with the avatar (or anyone else) regardless of whether he gets anything out of it or not. I don't even ship things, but those two just have really well written interactions so that I'm so going for it. But the sibling thing is probably an even bigger reason as to why I don't want to. I got enough points to S-support him once so I just activated it.

"Arigato, nee-san."

NOPE. *restart file*

… And it REALLY doesn't help that he's younger than my actual brother, too.

[Hatsuoki]

Bear with me here because I don't follow politics so I apologize if I come off as sounding rude or ignorant but I classify incest as two literal blood related people getting together.

Of course, none of the siblings in game are actually blood related to you so it should be okay and that makes the 2nd generation from these characters with Kamui okay.

I get that it's my own opinion and that many argue otherwise. But if people think that Kamui shouldn't be able to marry their non-blood related sibling, shouldn't they also not be okay with same-sex marriage? They are two people who love each other and

aren't actually blood related

so shouldn't it be kind of the same? I'm sorry! Am I just being ignorant?

Edit: Oops and I forgot to ask, wouldn't an incestuous couple be okay so long as they adopt a child instead?

Edited September 13, 2015 by Hatsuoki

[carefreejules]

Bear with me here because I don't follow politics so I apologize if I come off as sounding rude or ignorant but I classify incest as two literal blood related people getting together.

Of course, none of the siblings in game are actually blood related to you so it should be okay and that makes the 2nd generation from these characters with Kamui okay.

I get that it's my own opinion and that many argue otherwise. But if people think that Kamui shouldn't be able to marry their non-blood related sibling, shouldn't they also not be okay with same-sex marriage? They are two people who love each other and

aren't actually blood related

so shouldn't it be kind of the same? I'm sorry! Am I just being ignorant?

Edit: Oops and I forgot to ask, wouldn't an incestuous couple be okay so long as they adopt a child instead?

I think what a lot of us are more concerned about is how seemingly easily the game portrays Kamui's sudden flip of a switch from "oh hey bro" to "ok let's get married" because it just doesn't happen like that in real life.

It's more of a mental outlook on the situation. Yes, you're PHYSICALLY not related to them, but the mentality of seeing them as your once family is still there and it doesn't just go away like a puff of smoke. Imagine yourself having a 'brother' or 'sister' and then suddenly finding out you're not related to them by blood. Would you be so easily inclined to be in a romantic relationship with them? I think that's what put people off.

Many of us just feel like they shouldn't have made them eligible marriage candidates to begin with because it goes against the whole conflict of siding with your 'blood' related siblings to your loyalty to the siblings you grew up with. If you're gonna put this pretty big revelation in the game with this big emphasis on family as a theme, why wouldn't you decide to portray it in the main story? But instead, you only find this out IF you decide to S-rank your siblings, which I think doesn't make a lot of sense.

Regardless, incestuous relationships are frown upon BECAUSE of that blood/familial relationship so I don't think I've ever seen an instance where an incestuous couple decided to adopt a child nor do I think it's ok for their to be incest in the first place.

Edited September 13, 2015 by carefreejules

[Hatsuoki]

I think what a lot of us are more concerned about is how seemingly easily the game portrays Kamui's sudden flip of a switch from "oh hey bro" to "ok let's get married" because it just doesn't happen like that in real life.

It's more of a mental outlook on the situation. Yes, you're PHYSICALLY not related to them, but the mentality of seeing them as your once family is still there and it doesn't just go away like a puff of smoke. I think that's what put people off.

Many of us just feel like they shouldn't have made them eligible marriage candidates to begin with because it goes against the whole conflict of siding with your 'blood' related siblings to your loyalty to the siblings you grew up with.

Regardless, incestuous relationships are frown upon BECAUSE of that blood relationship so I don't think I've ever seen an instance where an incestuous couple decided to adopt a child nor do I think it's ok for their to be incest in the first place.

Judging by your last sentence, you would agree that technically, even if Kamui and his/her sibling can flip the switch, it is not incest?

Regarding the part where Kamui and siblings seem to just "flip a switch", I was kind of under the impression that Kamui didn't get to see them much to even be that close anyway?

Edit: fix for engrish...

Edited September 13, 2015 by Hatsuoki

[carefreejules]

Judging by your last sentence, you would agree that technically, even if Kamui and his/her sibling can flip the switch, it is not incest?

Regarding the part where Kamui and siblings seem to just "flip a switch", I waws kind of under the impression that Kamui didn't get to see them much to even be that close anyway?

I'm just saying that being able to flip your perspective that you can now look at these people from being your sibling to your romantic partner, does not happen that easily (or even realistically), even if you're told you're not related by blood. Again, think mentally.

Even if you didn't spend that much familial time with your Hoshido siblings, right from the get go you're told that Ryouma is your older brother and Takumi, Hinoka and Sakura are also your siblings. That mental note about your perceived relationship with them is there.

What I'm trying to say is, the word 'siblings' can be a huge deciding factor in how you feel towards someone. If you have a brother and sister, you regard them as such and only have feelings that normal brothers and sisters 'should have' because we're told in this society that incest is not allowed so we steer our feelings away from that. I don't know about you but if I had a brother that wasn't related to me by blood but is technically still a part of my family, I wouldn't develop any romantic feelings for him let alone let that cross my mind. I have spent a lot of times with my sisters and cousins so my opinion on the matter may be a bit bias.

Think of it this way, if the games were completely changed and it was established from the beginning that you weren't related to ANYONE, do you think people would be conflicted about marrying them? I don't think so.

I also feel like I'm going off topic so I think I'll stop for now.

Edited September 13, 2015 by carefreejules

[Hatsuoki]

I'm just saying that being able to flip your perspective that you can now look at these people from being your sibling to your romantic partner, does not happen that easily (or even realistically), even if you're told you're not related by blood. Again, think mentally.

Even if you didn't spend that much familial time with your Hoshido siblings, right from the get go you're told that Ryouma is your older brother and Takumi, Hinoka and Sakura are also your siblings. That mental note about your perceived relationship with them is there.

What I'm trying to say is, the word 'siblings' can be a huge deciding factor in how you feel towards someone. If you have a brother and sister, you regard them as such and only have feelings that normal brothers and sisters 'should have' because we're told in this society that incest is not allowed so we steer our feelings away from that. I don't know about you but if I had a brother that wasn't related to me by blood but is technically still a part of my family, I wouldn't develop any romantic feelings for him let alone let that cross my mind.

Think of it this way, if the games were completely changed and it was established from the beginning that you weren't related to ANYONE, do you think people would be conflicted about marrying them? I don't think so.

I also feel like I'm going off topic so I think I'll stop for now.

I am thinking mentally, I just can't actually fathom being able to "flip the switch" either because I've never lived through such a situation. But Kamui even states at one point to Mikoto after she revealed that she is his/her actual mom, Kamui says something like "I just can't accept that." or "I haven't accepted that." I think that there would be a disconnect especially regarding the Hoshido siblings.