What Stops Other Units Using PRF Weapons?

[Jotari]

In universe what kind of explanation do you think there is for other units not being able to use the likes of Falchion or Amiti or, especially, the Jugdral Holy Weapons? We know they can physically hold onto the weapons in some form since Gharnef likes to carry around Falchion and you get Tyfrung from that one bishop dude. I can get magic just not working but what happens if someone without the sufficient blood line tries to stab someone with one of them? Would it just not cut their enemy? Would it cause pain to the user if they swing it with sufficient force? I don't know. Just some food for thought. Discuss.

[Radiant Dragon]

Pretty sure Awakening answers this for Falchion at least, in Lucina's A-support with her sibling. When not wielded by the proper owner Falchion turns dull, and will not cut through anything. I'm assuming it's similar for other legendary blades, they're little more than elaborate clubs when not wielded by their proper owners.

[Refa]

There's no fucking reason. Why can't anyone who isn't royalty wield a rapier? Could they not afford fencing classes?

[Paper Jam]

What really bugs me is that in FE7, only Eliwood can use Durandal, only Hector can use Armads, and only Athos can use Forblaze... but in FE6, anyone of sufficient skill in Swords, Axes, or Elemental magic, respectively, can use them.

What changed between FE7 and 6?

Edited November 20, 2015 by Paper Jam

[Jedi]

In terms of the Mani Katti and Lyn, it basically chose her as its wielder, I assume it gets really heavy for those who cannot wield it, also its very Eastern in design, which unless you were Guy, Karel or Karla, you probably wouldn't have the most finesse with it either. The Wo Dao is similarly locked between the Eastern styled swordsmen, but I'm guessing the Mani Katti choosing Lyn only allows her to use it.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Jedi

[MCProductions]

Awakening explains Falchion as mentioned above

Shadow Dragon also says rapiers can only be weilding by Lords cause their the only ones that can afford the blades, tho this is a poor explanation as Chrom's children cannot wield one unless your name's Lucina

The Mani and Sol Katti's chose Lyn

Those are the only ones I know, tho I figure they would function similar to Falchion.

[General Horace]

It's been a while since i've played awakening but from what I remember I thought it was implied that Lucina's sibling could use Falchion, since Chrom randomly shows up at the end is like hur dur why is this log cut in half, and Lucina leaves to do something leaving her sibling with Falchion. I dunno if I'm just remembering incorrectly or if I'm just missing something though.

I honestly think that most PRF's (like Rapiers/Wolf Beil what not) are just weapons owned by the lords (be it because of wealth or personal preferance). The Jugdral Holy weapons are just passed down through familial ties etc. There are some exceptions (like the Mani Katti) but I'm pretty sure you can just write them off by being "magical" or something.

I think that the weapons could technically be used by others, but it would just break the game, so it's restricted. Can you imagine Marcus using the Wolf Beil? Stuff like FE7 Armads and Durandal are given to the leaders of the army, I think that makes sense WRT their use in FE6.

Edited November 20, 2015 by General Horace

[Tragonight]

The sacred weapons are understandable because most of them have a soul or at least an essence to them. Otherwise, the Awakening explanation for Falchion would suffice (the vague ending in that support still puzzles me to this moment). And as for Rapiers, as boring as it sounds, I agree with Refa. Rapiers must have some sort of specific fighting style that you need to learn (apparently only royalty can learn it?) to use it. Awakening portrayed the Rapier as a flimsy slender sword, and I imagine Lucina and Lodestar Marth using it properly. What really bugs me is that Chrom can use it too, and if you watch him, there's no way in hell that he's using it properly...

The weapons that confuse me the most are weapons like Reginleif, Wolf Beil, and Wolf Berg. They're not special like the Mani Katti, they didn't choose their wielders or anything. They are just normal weapons that happened to be owned by one person...who is somehow the only person capable of wielding it.

What really bugs me is that in FE7, only Eliwood can use Durandal, only Hector can use Armads, and only Athos can use Forblaze... but in FE6, anyone of sufficient skill in Swords, Axes, or Elemental magic, respectively, can use them.

What changed between FE7 and 6?

My reasoning for this is that the old owners died so that other people would be able to use it.

I love how Roy gets Sealed Sword, which trumps Durandal and seems to directly violate "canon," if that even exists in this sense.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Tragonight

[bookofholsety]

just throwing this out there: with magic it's occasionally explained as being specifically locked using a spell; for instance, in fe5 august says this about the kia staff:

August: Not entirely. There exists a sacred staff, known as Kia, which could dissolve her stone state. However, that staff lies in the grip of the Loptyrian archbishop Manfroy, who has cast a seal upon it. Only Manfroy’s kin can use it now, or so the rumors say.

it's possible that some weapons could be sealed in that way which could result in an effect like the whole lucina-sibling failing to cut with falchion thing

if i had to guess, one way of doing it for more common weapons might be a matter of comfort. for instance, ettard could be very specifically customised to ike's swordfighting style and grip, to the point that just about everybody else finds it physically uncomfortable or awkward to use. rapiers could fall into this gulf with respect to how they're noble weapons; perhaps people of more common blood, who are used to the idea of swords as relatively thick or heavy, just don't feel comfortable waving around something so small, thin or relatively lightweight?

[HK Motendra]

For Holy weapons, I want to say that whatever blessing said weapons may have had, must have faded over time, from being active for so long.Or so thats just what my own memory dictates form something that I once came across, that I can't seem to find atm. Do keep in mind that there is a time lapse between FE6 and 7, and an even bigger one with Jugdral, which would explain how just about anyone could use the blood-tied holy weapons

For example, prior to the First Exalt, Falchion was strictly locked to Altea's royal bloodline, but given that the sword had to go through reforging and (possibly) re contracting of the weapon's power, it now has stricter requirements. Another (prolly better example) being the Ragnell that used to be indestructible, but in Awakening's time, no longer has the Goddess's blessings (or whatever it is that makes it so holy) and now is both visibly and physically not what it used to be

Thats just my take, however. Can't really say much about the others

Edited November 20, 2015 by Noburu

[sirmola]

if i had to guess, one way of doing it for more common weapons might be a matter of comfort. for instance, ettard could be very specifically customised to ike's swordfighting style and grip, to the point that just about everybody else finds it physically uncomfortable or awkward to use. rapiers could fall into this gulf with respect to how they're noble weapons; perhaps people of more common blood, who are used to the idea of swords as relatively thick or heavy, just don't feel comfortable waving around something so small, thin or relatively lightweight?

I'd guess that it is specialized enough that the standard sword fighting course/training did not include it. THis also explains why people can use it in thracia. Standard teaching methods there probably include it (or it is constructed so as to be easier to use).

[NekoKnight]

There are a variety of weapons within a single weapon category (like Katanas and Broadswords) so I don't really buy "you need special training to use this weapon" when no other weapons require special training. For the non-magical Lord's Prf weapons, I'm just going to go with "You can't use it because it's mine." I mean, it's their personal weapon, why would they let anyone else use it?

For the divine/magical weapons, I think "blade gets dull/too heavy to use if you try to swing it in combat" works. The Mani Katti couldn't even be drawn from its scabbard until it's chosen wielder turned up.

[Refa]

Why can only Ike use Ragnell?

[NekoKnight]

That's actually a good question because Greil was implied to be able to use it and I don't think there is anything special about their bloodline to justify a genetic correlation.

Um... Yune chose him? Or maybe it's just that it has a personal significance to Ike since his father was offered it before.

[Refa]

Yune couldn't choose him because she didn't personally know who he was before he received it IIRC (correct me if I'm wrong on this) but you're probably definitely right about the second one.

[Baldrick]

In PoR, Ike needed it to kill the Black Knight and didn't let anyone else have it.
In RD, it was Sanaki's property and she only gave Ike permission to use it.

[Zelgius]

Why can only Ike use Ragnell?

That's actually a good question because Greil was implied to be able to use it and I don't think there is anything special about their bloodline to justify a genetic correlation.

Um... Yune chose him? Or maybe it's just that it has a personal significance to Ike since his father was offered it before.

If remember right, BK was using Ragnell at first against Greil before offering him it.

[Refa]

In PoR, Ike needed it to kill the Black Knight and didn't let anyone else have it.

In RD, it was Sanaki's property and she only gave Ike permission to use it.

Yeah, but what if like Mist needed to use Ragnell to not die? You'd think Ike would be like "fuck that noise, here you go".

[Jotari]

What really bugs me is that in FE7, only Eliwood can use Durandal, only Hector can use Armads, and only Athos can use Forblaze... but in FE6, anyone of sufficient skill in Swords, Axes, or Elemental magic, respectively, can use them.

What changed between FE7 and 6?

What's even more puzzling is that he brings Aureola to that fight which anyone can use. Why is that one holy weapon different? I think in this case it's canon that anyone can use these weapons but only Eliwood, Hector and Athos did use them in the story (also only tangentially related but I think Athos should have given Lyn Murgleis instead of making up some sword to remind everyone she's special).

Ragnell isn't locked to Ike in terms of story at all. And I think in terms of gameplay anyone can use it too. It;s just you can never trade it away from Ike. Anyone can use Alondite and as far as I know the swords are designed to be identical.

Also if the likes of freaking Helswath get's really blunt then I think it still stands a significant chance of killing someone.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Jotari

[secondworld]

People don't like sharing

"Hey Orsin, can I borrow that cool little throwing ax you got there?"

"...You think I'm just going to not use this ranged killer ax?"

[Tamanoir]

In some RPGs Rapier are considered their own unique kind of weapon, and have a different fighting style attached to them, closer to how you'd use a lance (see Eliwood/Eirika/Roy fighting animation.)

In FE8, we know Eirika learned to fight with Eiphraim, which explain her fighting style, and indirectly why only her can use the rapier.

[Gradivus.]

Yeah, but what if like Mist needed to use Ragnell to not die? You'd think Ike would be like "fuck that noise, here you go".

It's more that Ike would just immediately rescue Mist (or have someone else do it) if she were at risk of dying, so he doesn't need to pass it over to anyone.

@OP tbh it never bothered me that the character in question might just say "this weapon is mine", so yeah, that's likely to be a reason for it imo.

Edited November 20, 2015 by Gradivus.

[kantoorfarina]

gameplay balance

imagine Seth with a 5+ strength, 18 (?) mt lance

or they just wanted to make the lord cooler/stronger by giving them their own personal weapon

Edited November 20, 2015 by kantoorfarina

[Refa]

It's more that Ike would just immediately rescue Mist (or have someone else do it) if she were at risk of dying, so he doesn't need to pass it over to anyone.

Why not do both? Surely it would only increase her chances of survival.

gameplay balance

imagine Seth with a 5+ strength, 18 (?) mt lance

or they just wanted to make the lord cooler/stronger by giving them their own personal weapon

Forget Siegmund, Seth would be fucking broken with Regenlief.

[Gradivus.]

Because he needs the Ragnell on his own? I mean as the leader of the army, it's likely that he thinks he needs a strong weapon.

And idk, the army would generally try to protect the units that aren't well armoured, such as Mist, so I'm not sure how giving her the Ragnell would be worth it from a canon viewpoint.

We could go into technicalities about how he doesn't need it more than the other combatants, but I never felt strongly about this so I'll just say "gameplay reasons that slightly disconnect from the plot but aren't /illogical/".

Edited November 20, 2015 by Gradivus.