On Face-rubbing in Fates, interview from the Making-Of book

[Dollysama]

I'm glad Team A won, as what Team B wanted is actually quite creepy. I am kinda sad I can't touch Odin's abs though...

[Party Moth]

Another translation from Reddit of the Making Of book says that IS had a "reshuffling" of the team after Radiant Dawn.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3xnf8o/the_making_of_fire_emblem_a_trial_era_between/

You know, hearing that doesn't really surprise me.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I actually kinda believe there's something terribly going wrong over at IS in recent years.

Codename: STEAM was good, but everything else from Fire Emblem to Paper Mario.. it's as if they completely restructured the employees or something.

I followed IS down to the Earth's core with: Super Metroid, Paper Mario, Advanced Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware Inc. Amazing RPG and strategic games.

Stop following when: Fire Emblem got weird and got rid of Shouzou Kaga's remaining magic, Paper Mario stopped feeling like Paper Mario, Wario Ware got stale, CN: STEAM was a thing instead of Advanced Wars, didn't ask or plead or even think about making a Metroid during the 6 year gap.

I still hold hope tho, for Advanced Wars, RPG's and Strategy games and Paper Mario. Is can still think IS will rush back to what made it great.

[Light Master]

I followed IS down to the Earth's core with: Super Metroid, Paper Mario, Advanced Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware Inc. Amazing RPG and strategic games.

Stop following when: Fire Emblem got weird and got rid of Shouzou Kaga's remaining magic, Paper Mario stopped feeling like Paper Mario, Wario Ware got stale, CN: STEAM was a thing instead of Advanced Wars, didn't ask or plead or even think about making a Metroid during the 6 year gap.

I still hold hope tho, for Advanced Wars, RPG's and Strategy games and Paper Mario. Is can still think IS will rush back to what made it great.

Unfortunately this style of games don't sell, and money talks strongly than good design or anything.

And regarding how the Fire Emblem fanbase is today (go see youtube comments on this video https://youtu.be/PH41yPnvd-k)I doubt that will change anytime soon.

Ps: There are sick people in the comments of this video, wanting things like pedophilia in the series, you know, for kids :)

[DeadGame]

Another translation from Reddit of the Making Of book says that IS had a "reshuffling" of the team after Radiant Dawn.

https://www.reddit.com/r/fireemblem/comments/3xnf8o/the_making_of_fire_emblem_a_trial_era_between/

Interesting, thanks, that explains a lot. This again shows how sad it is that Radiant Dawn didn't sell well.

(btw fire emblem is not dead and you are not "kneeling beside it's grave" so stop being so patronizing)

No, buddy, I need to pay my respect for the fallen. (I know it's still technically alive in a similar fashion to Luke Skywalker's father and Darth Vader, but.. the respect must be paid.)

[solrocknroll]

okay whatever

do whatever makes you happy

I'll just be over here playing fates while you continue to be condescending

the nerve of some people smh

[Dark Sage]

okay whatever

do whatever makes you happy

I'll just be over here playing fates while you continue to be condescendingthe nerve of some people smh

The irony is palpable

[The DanMan]

The irony is palpable

I'm waiting for the breaking point.

I followed IS down to the Earth's core with: Super Metroid, Paper Mario, Advanced Wars, Fire Emblem, Wario Ware Inc. Amazing RPG and strategic games.

Stop following when: Fire Emblem got weird and got rid of Shouzou Kaga's remaining magic, Paper Mario stopped feeling like Paper Mario, Wario Ware got stale, CN: STEAM was a thing instead of Advanced Wars, didn't ask or plead or even think about making a Metroid during the 6 year gap.

I still hold hope tho, for Advanced Wars, RPG's and Strategy games and Paper Mario. Is can still think IS will rush back to what made it great.

-You do know that Sticker Star was because of a Club Nintendo poll where "something new and different" beat out "something similiar to Thousand-Year Door"? Even then, Miyamoto was behind the different direction; that's like whining about your mayor enforcing laws that were passed by the state legislature.

-Codename Steam was a thing because they wanted to try something new and different; I see nothing wrong with wanting to experiment with things. At the end of the day, it was a decent game with rough execution.

-Also, why should they care about Metroid? They were just development grunts; it's not their expertise. What's the point of blaming them for that?

[arvilino]

Good thing they came to a decent compromise. The face rubbing mechanic isn't exactly something that important to me, I stopped even bothering using it by my 2nd playthrough because it really wasn't worth the time personally. But for the players who were interested or would enjoy it I wouldn't really wish it away, the games aren't just made for a single person.

[Sunwoo]

okay whatever

do whatever makes you happy

I'll just be over here playing fates while you continue to be condescending

the nerve of some people smh

Thy name is hypocrisy. Or a person with no friends. Can't tell which one, but not sure it matters.

The irony is palpable

Clearly it's not irony because it's okay when he does it. Special snowflakes have no limits! Well, except in real life, teehee~

So, uh, yeah. Things going on at IS sure are … a thing. If there was a "reshuffling" in IS after Radiant Dawn, I feel like that actually explains a lot.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Sunwoo

[Dark Sage]

That's some shaky reasoning. By that logic, a game should never have any features removed ever in any of its sequels because after all, someone would ubdoubtedly enjoy them.

This feature in particular was made pretty much to appeal to creepy fucks like Team B. It really wasn't so much a compromise as Team A doing damage control since they too were creeped out and Higuchi explicitly told them to "not make it weird."

@Sunwoo: Making friends would require him to leave his parents' basement, which we all know will never happen.

Edited December 23, 2015 by Dark Sage

[NekoKnight]

That's some shaky reasoning. By that logic, a game should never have any features removed ever in any of its sequels because after all, someone would ubdoubtedly enjoy them.

This feature in particular was made pretty much to appeal to creepy fucks like Team B. It really wasn't so much a compromise as Team A doing damage control since they too were creeped out and Higuchi explicitly told them to "not make it weird."

@Sunwoo: Making friends would require him to leave his parents' basement, which we all know will never happen.

"Damage control" were the words that immediately came to mind when reading the interview. It doesn't sound like Team A was really keen on ANY skinship. So it's less that Team A won, rather that they mitigated the creep factor as best they could.

[Sunwoo]

That's some shaky reasoning. By that logic, a game should never have any features removed ever in any of its sequels because after all, someone would ubdoubtedly enjoy them.

I know, right? Technically, the previous FE games have had a lot of things removed in successive games, with some of those mechanics to be implemented later. Like:

1. branched promotions (after FE8, they didn't come back until FE13; still in FE14)

2. third tiers (haven't come back at all)

3. elevation affecting hit (hasn't come back at all)

4. fog of war (was removed at some point, hasn't returned yet)

5. weather (don't recall seeing this after FE7)

6. RD-style support system (actually, I hated this one, but it was sort of nice being able to support who you wanted to who you wanted instead of being limited to people with convos?)

7. FE7 tactician (even if you want to count it as the avatar, it took until FE12 to return)

8. base conversations (FE13 and FE14 sure as hell don't have them)

9. capture (first seen in FE5, and it took until FE14 to come back)

Heck, marriage was first introduced in FE4 and didn't return until FE13. And the world didn't implode during FE5-FE12 when it wasn't there.

FE's always been changing.

[arvilino]

That's some shaky reasoning. By that logic, a game should never have any features removed ever in any of its sequels because after all, someone would ubdoubtedly enjoy them.

This feature in particular was made pretty much to appeal to creepy fucks like Team B. It really wasn't so much a compromise as Team A doing damage control since they too were creeped out and Higuchi explicitly told them to "not make it weird."

If one of the two debug team were ok with it for there was a divide between two the feature has appeal to a certain group. I don't exactly know who Team B(or Team A for that matter) are to judge them personally but if they represent some active demand its clear that the feature itself would be something that they know a sizeable group would enjoy.

Also we know players like Team B enjoy it and that there's a divide in opinion on the matter between developers, playtesters and potentially players. The only way the bolded would be my viewpoint is if it was just Maeda who wanted it in and both Team A and Team B didn't like it and I was still suggesting it should be in because "somebody might like it". I'm saying it should be in because its known that a number of people do like it(plus it isn't mandatory).

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

with that said there are two slippery slopes here.

one of them being "we maybe we should allow *insert horrible fetish here* because some people would like it" and the other being "we shouldn't allow anything that isn't actual gameplay because gameplay is all that matters and all the extra stuff can be taken out for all i care".

we gotta be careful where we're going to trend here, i've been playing nation states lately and i could see this turning into an "Issue" there.

i think the real question we should be asking isn't "should we allow ____ because someone might like it." but "where do we draw the line on adding stuff just because someone might like it?" as in theory there's atleast one person out there that likes even the foulest of things.

Edited December 24, 2015 by HF Makalov Fanboy Kai

[Baldrick]

I think there are two ways you could draw the line. The first is when you start pandering. For example, Tiki/Fa/Myrrh could appeal to a certain demographic, but if it was intended that way, it's not obvious. There's no subtlety in Nowi's design, though. The second would be how explicit it is. For example, Nowi has a daughter, but the finer details are still left to the imagination. Face-rubbing, and especially genital-rubbing, doesn't.

That said, I don't think it's possible to reach complete consensus on where to draw the line.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I'm waiting for the breaking point.

-You do know that Sticker Star was because of a Club Nintendo poll where "something new and different" beat out "something similar to Thousand-Year Door"? Even then, Miyamoto was behind the different direction; that's like whining about your mayor enforcing laws that were passed by the state legislature.

-Codename Steam was a thing because they wanted to try something new and different; I see nothing wrong with wanting to experiment with things. At the end of the day, it was a decent game with rough execution.

-Also, why should they care about Metroid? They were just development grunts; it's not their expertise. What's the point of blaming them for that?

"New and different, new and different." Change doesn't help make games get good money. Really though, tl;dr, it seems trying something new is bad compared to improving the game, or whatever the case is when it comes to Nintendo. Smash Brawl from Melee is an example. IS don't understand still.

And I'm sure, if the original team just announced they'd remaster Super Metroid, it would sell without much effort. Doesn't need to be 2.5D, and like I said, barely any effort. It would at least show that they can cater fans in long wait for a franchise which Nintendo seemed to almost forgotten.

[arvilino]

with that said there are two slippery slopes here.

one of them being "we maybe we should allow *insert horrible fetish here* because some people would like it" and the other being "we shouldn't allow anything that isn't actual gameplay because gameplay is all that matters and all the extra stuff can be taken out for all i care".

we gotta be careful where we're going to trend here, i've been playing nation states lately and i could see this turning into an "Issue" there.

i think the real question we should be asking isn't "should we allow ____ because someone might like it." but "where do we draw the line on adding stuff just because someone might like it?" as in theory there's atleast one person out there that likes even the foulest of things.

I agree, I don't mean adding features completley without moderation. Nintendo specifically even rejected the initial incarnation of the mechanic and the games can't be published without Nintendo's OK. If Nintendo rejects something they have to change it or it can't be released, as a result it's unlikely we'll ever see an M-rated or 18+ Fire Emblem game letalone something foul.

Taking Awakening into account the line appears to be a T-rating in the west and if there is the potential(Summer Scramble for the US, Harvest Scramble in Europe) to go above it the game is going to be changed to prevent it. The combination of ratings boards and Nintendo are good enough authority on drawing the line in my opinion. Rating boards are going to treat the game like any other and Nintendo aren't going to let their developers go above their target market since it isn't a product that IS can just put onto the shelves themselves any real slippery slope is prevented by these organisations in each region.

However in this case so far two organisations(ERSB and CERO) with no connection or prior expectations with the series other than that they rate the content have classified the mechanic as it is now as suitable for 12 and up(even if the overall Japanese game is 15 and up).

Edited December 24, 2015 by arvilino

[Radiance]

Hello? Get touched anywhere? That's umm ok I don't want to go into detail about that. Rated M for sure if that's the case of Team B winning. I thought the face rubbing was enough until I heard about this. I'll accept face rubbing, not body rubbing.

[eclipse]

Good thing they came to a decent compromise. The face rubbing mechanic isn't exactly something that important to me, I stopped even bothering using it by my 2nd playthrough because it really wasn't worth the time personally. But for the players who were interested or would enjoy it I wouldn't really wish it away, the games aren't just made for a single person.

How important is it from a strict gameplay perspective? If I decide to do a LTC run, will this drastically affect support speed?

I'm more of a gameplay person, and I'm willing to swallow my dislike in the name of doing cool things within the game.

Either way, glad that this didn't turn into something even weirder. Like, WTF IS Team B, keep your hands to yourself!

[NekoKnight]

How important is it from a strict gameplay perspective? If I decide to do a LTC run, will this drastically affect support speed?

I'm more of a gameplay person, and I'm willing to swallow my dislike in the name of doing cool things within the game.

Either way, glad that this didn't turn into something even weirder. Like, WTF IS Team B, keep your hands to yourself!

I don't know about "drastic" but it does speed things along. You can do it after set time intervals and after every chapter you beat. It's not like you will consistently get the same characters to skinship so I wouldn't call it really important.

[eclipse]

I don't know about "drastic" but it does speed things along. You can do it after set time intervals and after every chapter you beat. It's not like you will consistently get the same characters to skinship so I wouldn't call it really important.

Hmmm. . ."speed things along" means something, but I'd need to see by how much and all.

I'm sorry Fates cast, but Corrin's gonna spread his grimy hands all over your faces. In the name of science.

[arvilino]

How important is it from a strict gameplay perspective? If I decide to do a LTC run, will this drastically affect support speed?

I'm more of a gameplay person, and I'm willing to swallow my dislike in the name of doing cool things within the game.

Either way, glad that this didn't turn into something even weirder. Like, WTF IS Team B, keep your hands to yourself!

It's pretty small I believe someone said one session is about as much as 1 round of combat standing adjacent to each other and like Nekoknight said it generates after each battle or after a certain amount of time but chances are you won't even get the character you want in the selection. In Conquest if you just want extra support points I'd say you might as well be doing a Wi-Fi MyCastle battle because those increase support points and at a much faster rate but don't provide EXP or WEXP.

Edited December 24, 2015 by arvilino

[eclipse]

It's pretty small I believe someone said one session is about as much as 1 round of combat standing adjacent to each other and like Nekoknight said it generates after each battle or after a certain amount of time but chances are you won't even get the character you want in the selection. In Conquest if you just want extra support points I'd say you might as well be doing a Wi-Fi MyCastle battle because those increase support points and at a much faster rate but don't provide EXP or WEXP.

This is pretty useful. In Awakening, there was a certain, erm, portion where counting support points down to the individual battles made things easier. I'm not sure if I'll need this for any of the routes, because I haven't played it. It's a good option for people who don't have Wi-fi, though~!

[Radiance]

I don't intend any offense but does the choice of Team B have to do with some culture in their society or are they just straight up dirty minded people in team B. Kind of a dumb question but I don't know much about Japan so I'm not being critic for something idk about. I don't like Anime or anything so idk.