If only Sully!Lucina had Galeforce...

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Whenever I look at Sully!Lucina's mods, I just can't help but pity how awesome she would have been if she (and probably Chrom!Kjelle) had Galeforce... *sigh*

Any thoughts?

Edit: Typo :x

Edited January 7, 2016 by Formerly Colm

[Radiance]

*sign*? I will assume that is a sigh. It would have been cool from what I think. A personality like Sully on a Dark flier? Everything will be destroyed. I don't think Sully gives anything unique to Lucina.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Radiance

[ChickenWings]

I wish Sully could have the Pegasus knight tree...

[Dwlr]

It is what it is. It offers better diversity when choosing to pair Chrom with somebody. Sumia has Galeforce, but no Vantage, Sully has Vantage, but no Galeforce, Maribelle is a magic focused option, and Olivia has the worst OVR stats, but has both Vantage and Galeforce to pass to Lucina. Olivia is most likely being used as a Dancer so she's a poor support for Chrom while Sully, Sumia, and Maribelle all offer support options. Everybody can't have everything. Vantage > Galeforce IMO Galeforce is a convenience skill IMO, Vantage lets you play defensively without needing to sink anything into survival skills and short of counter you can kill anything before they get a turn if you use Brave Weapons so Galeforce is just a convenience skill.

*sign*? I will assume that is a sigh. It would have been cool from what I think. A personality like Sully on a Dark flier? Everything will be destroyed. I don't think Sully gives anything unique to Lucina.

Sully gives Wyvern Rider classes it's 'unique', it just might not be a useful 'unique' quality.

Edited January 6, 2016 by Dwlr

[ckc22]

Whenever I look at Sully!Lucina's mods, I can't help but patronize how awesome she would have been if she (and probably Chrom!Kjelle) had Galeforce... *sigh*

Any thoughts?

Edit: Typo :x

They're negligibly different than sumia!lucina?

[Florete]

I can't help but patronize

I don't think this is the word you meant to use.

But yes, Sully!Lucina is quite great.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

I was on mobile when I started this, too lazy to make some adjustments. :T

[NANAjishi Nanao]

It is what it is. It offers better diversity when choosing to pair Chrom with somebody. Sumia has Galeforce, but no Vantage, Sully has Vantage, but no Galeforce, Maribelle is a magic focused option, and Olivia has the worst OVR stats, but has both Vantage and Galeforce to pass to Lucina. Olivia is most likely being used as a Dancer so she's a poor support for Chrom while Sully, Sumia, and Maribelle all offer support options. Everybody can't have everything. Vantage > Galeforce IMO Galeforce is a convenience skill IMO, Vantage lets you play defensively without needing to sink anything into survival skills and short of counter you can kill anything before they get a turn if you use Brave Weapons so Galeforce is just a convenience skill.

Sully gives Wyvern Rider classes it's 'unique', it just might not be a useful 'unique' quality.

though one thing is for sure, Vantage skill might be a disadVANTAGE to a target unit with a Counter skill

[eclipse]

In what universe is Swordfaire on Lucina a bad thing?

I know the only Galemoms that can pull that are Olivia and Robin, but still, it's something that Chrom doesn't have that Sully offers.

[Dwlr]

though one thing is for sure, Vantage skill might be a disadVANTAGE to a target unit with a Counter skill

Yeah so what? An active skill can be a negative if it lets you deal more damage to a Counter unit. Sol can be a disadvantage if it gives you 41 HP negating the chance for Vantage and leaving you at low(ish) health that can cause you to get killed before you move. Gamble can be counted as a disadvantage if you miss you attack it does reduce your Hit Rate after all. Wrath can be a disadvantage if you crit a Counter unit. Galeforce can be a disadvantage if you use it to move into an enemy's attack range that you judge to be safe, but wasn't. There are a lot of scenarios where a skill can be a disadvantage that doesn't mean it's not a 'good' skill nor does it mean you can't prefer that skill over another.

[Ennui]

An Avatar (F) could emulate Sully's mods slightly with a Speed +/ Luck- build if that helps. The resulting Lucina will have similar mods except more Speed and Defense and slightly less Luck.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Yeah so what? An active skill can be a negative if it lets you deal more damage to a Counter unit. Sol can be a disadvantage if it gives you 41 HP negating the chance for Vantage and leaving you at low(ish) health that can cause you to get killed before you move. Gamble can be counted as a disadvantage if you miss you attack it does reduce your Hit Rate after all. Wrath can be a disadvantage if you crit a Counter unit. Galeforce can be a disadvantage if you use it to move into an enemy's attack range that you judge to be safe, but wasn't. There are a lot of scenarios where a skill can be a disadvantage that doesn't mean it's not a 'good' skill nor does it mean you can't prefer that skill over another.

Wow, really?

First off, Gamble and Wrath are generally considered to not be that great, so I'm not sure why you're using them as examples to show that Vantage isn't that bad. Sol has several legitimate issues, including reliability (you count on it to stay alive, it could fail you and you die) and doing practically nothing after the damage drop from Dragonskin (in Apo, you're looking at 5-10HP recovered per proc), so I'm not sure why you're not talking about those instead.

But Galeforce being disadvantageous because it gives the player more time to do something dumb? You realize that if a player is going to misjudge enemy range and leave someone exposed, they can do it without GF, right? You realize that GF, giving you an extra turn in which you can run away, is one of the best (and only, aside from Rescue) ways in the game to escape from such a positioning mistake?

I suppose there's no possible way that Vantage could be disadvantageous by making the player think they're safer on EP at low HP than they really are, playing carelessly, getting attacked by an enemy they fail to kill with that altered turn order and dying? Because that happens to people who misuse Vantage all the time.

[Dwlr]

Wow, really?

First off, Gamble and Wrath are generally considered to not be that great, so I'm not sure why you're using them as examples to show that Vantage isn't that bad. Sol has several legitimate issues, including reliability (you count on it to stay alive, it could fail you and you die) and doing practically nothing after the damage drop from Dragonskin (in Apo, you're looking at 5-10HP recovered per proc), so I'm not sure why you're not talking about those instead.

But Galeforce being disadvantageous because it gives the player more time to do something dumb? You realize that if a player is going to misjudge enemy range and leave someone exposed, they can do it without GF, right? You realize that GF, giving you an extra turn in which you can run away, is one of the best (and only, aside from Rescue) ways in the game to escape from such a positioning mistake?

I suppose there's no possible way that Vantage could be disadvantageous by making the player think they're safer on EP at low HP than they really are, playing carelessly, getting attacked by an enemy they fail to kill with that altered turn order and dying? Because that happens to people who misuse Vantage all the time.

Wow really? You really like to fixate on one little thing and like to argue I guess even when you totally miss the point, good job.

Hmm let's see Vantage being a negative is largely due to negligence, just like a scenario where Galeforce can be a negative. It's not like enemy skills are hidden so you can't judge a Counter unit's range i.e. not doing so would be negligence on your part. The commonality of the "problem" has nothing to do with my statement. The point of the other examples was not to compare their 'quality' to other skills, but to point out many skills can cause negatives.

[Czar_Yoshi]

By that logic, Limit Breaker as a skill has downsides in that it takes up a skillslot and prevents you from running something else.

While that's true, it's also not very useful information. How severe of a problem said problem is has everything to do with a skill's usefulness.

[Dwlr]

By that logic, Limit Breaker as a skill has downsides in that it takes up a skillslot and prevents you from running something else.

While that's true, it's also not very useful information. How severe of a problem said problem is has everything to do with a skill's usefulness.

Still missing the point, nobody is discussing usefulness of ANY skill, but once again kudos for arguing while completely missing the point I admire your persistence.

He posted a disadvantage about Vantage which doesn't really have any relevance here. 1 preference is preference as I said in the original post and 2 again as I said in the original post a lot of skills have negatives. For the record considering ALL skills take up a skill slot, taking up a skill slot is not a negative "by that logic" only by your twisted argumentative tunnel logic does it turn that way.

[Czar_Yoshi]

Still missing the point, nobody is discussing usefulness of ANY skill

As a matter of fact, discussing the usefulness of certain skills is exactly what we're doing. This conversation started with this:

Vantage > Galeforce

And when someone said Vantage wasn't as great as you were making it out to be, you said all skills have flaws and went on about a few (including an extremely trivial one with GF).

I'm fine with you liking Vantage, but when you try to justify it logically by saying that all skills have flaws, and then don't take into account the severity of said flaws, that doesn't really work.

[Vascela]

A player making a tactical error is not the fault of the skill. There is no "missing the point" when the player error has nothing to do with galeforce or vantage. Galeforce increases your options to put yourself in a more likely success tile during the end phase--no ifs, ands, or buts. If a player made an error and put said unit into a poor tile that leads to failure of the chapter (moreso than the unit's original tile after the kill), galeforce itself is far from the blame.

[Elieson]

DAMN IF ONLY I WAS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO USE GALEFORCE WITHOUT MAKING A BAD MOVE! COVERING 16 TILES IS SO BAD BECAUSE I MIGHT MAKE A MISTAKE...FUCKING SUCKS

OR SWORDFAIRE AND STRENGTH+2 WITHOUT KILLING TOO MANY ENEMIES THAT RESULT IN ME BEING ATTACKED TOO OFTEN THAT I DIE

OR VANTAGE AND HAVING ENEMIES THAT RUN COUNTER MAKING MY LIFE CHALLENGING THROUGH BIGGER DAMAGE

OR LUNA NOT BEING USEFUL ON MY UNIT THAT IS IN THE BACK THIS ONE TURN

OR SPEED+2 BOOSTING MY DARK FLIER SPEED TO UNECESSARILY HIGH AMOUNTS THAT I DONT ACTUALLY BENEFIT FROM THE ATRACK SPEED BOOST

IF ONLY I COULD THINK BEFORE ACTING IMPULSIVELY AND USING THESE WONDERFUL OPTIONS THAT LET ME DO MORE THAN EVER! MAN THIS GAME DOESNT ACCOMODATE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INCAPABLR OF CONSIDERING ALL THE OPTIONS BEFORE MAKING A MOVE

Edited January 7, 2016 by Elieson

[Dwlr]

As a matter of fact, discussing the usefulness of certain skills is exactly what we're doing. This conversation started with this:

And when someone said Vantage wasn't as great as you were making it out to be, you said all skills have flaws and went on about a few (including an extremely trivial one with GF).

I'm fine with you liking Vantage, but when you try to justify it logically by saying that all skills have flaws, and then don't take into account the severity of said flaws, that doesn't really work.

No it's not. Firstly take the full context of the post and it's clearly a preference case not a case of saying Vantage is stronger than Galeforce. Secondly the original poster didn't say Vantage wasn't "great" he merely pointed out a potential issue with it and thus my response was about other skills having flaws as well and that it's pointless in this context to say any of the skills have flaws in this context since it's is a thread about a matter of preference. Again wasn't "justifying" my preference so like I said, you're completely missing the point and yet still arguing, kudos for that.

[Loki Laufeyson]

DAMN IF ONLY I WAS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO USE GALEFORCE WITHOUT MAKING A BAD MOVE! COVERING 16 TILES IS SO BAD BECAUSE I MIGHT MAKE A MISTAKE...FUCKING SUCKS

OR SWORDFAIRE AND STRENGTH+2 WITHOUT KILLING TOO MANY ENEMIES THAT RESULT IN ME BEING ATTACKED TOO OFTEN THAT I DIE

OR VANTAGE AND HAVING ENEMIES THAT RUN COUNTER MAKING MY LIFE CHALLENGING THROUGH BIGGER DAMAGE

OR LUNA NOT BEING USEFUL ON MY UNIT THAT IS IN THE BACK THIS ONE TURN

OR SPEED+2 BOOSTING MY DARK FLIER SPEED TO UNECESSARILY HIGH AMOUNTS THAT I DONT ACTUALLY BENEFIT FROM THE ATRACK SPEED BOOST

IF ONLY I COULD THINK BEFORE ACTING IMPULSIVELY AND USING THESE WONDERFUL OPTIONS THAT LET ME DO MORE THAN EVER! MAN THIS GAME DOESNT ACCOMODATE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INCAPABLR OF CONSIDERING ALL THE OPTIONS BEFORE MAKING A MOVE

Ilu.

I do wish Sully gave Galeforce cuz thats my favorite Chrom pairing for story reasons. Sully gives some hella good shit. Deliverer/Galeforce/Swordfaire/Aegis....dude if only

[Ebony]

DAMN IF ONLY I WAS INTELLIGENT ENOUGH TO USE GALEFORCE WITHOUT MAKING A BAD MOVE! COVERING 16 TILES IS SO BAD BECAUSE I MIGHT MAKE A MISTAKE...FUCKING SUCKS

OR SWORDFAIRE AND STRENGTH+2 WITHOUT KILLING TOO MANY ENEMIES THAT RESULT IN ME BEING ATTACKED TOO OFTEN THAT I DIE

OR VANTAGE AND HAVING ENEMIES THAT RUN COUNTER MAKING MY LIFE CHALLENGING THROUGH BIGGER DAMAGE

OR LUNA NOT BEING USEFUL ON MY UNIT THAT IS IN THE BACK THIS ONE TURN

OR SPEED+2 BOOSTING MY DARK FLIER SPEED TO UNECESSARILY HIGH AMOUNTS THAT I DONT ACTUALLY BENEFIT FROM THE ATRACK SPEED BOOST

IF ONLY I COULD THINK BEFORE ACTING IMPULSIVELY AND USING THESE WONDERFUL OPTIONS THAT LET ME DO MORE THAN EVER! MAN THIS GAME DOESNT ACCOMODATE FOR PEOPLE WHO ARE INCAPABLR OF CONSIDERING ALL THE OPTIONS BEFORE MAKING A MOVE

I'm at my grandparents house and I woke up someone laughing. Damn.

I wonder what it'd do for Kjelle though? It'd help her a lot too. Both her and Lucina!

[eclipse]

Kjelle with Galeforce is amazing. It also means that she gets access to Lancefaire. So, let's see what she'd be like if we pretend that Sully somehow had the pegasus line naturally:

Chrom/Virion/Stahl: Their mods are fairly similar, as well as the classes they pass down. If Kjelle has Chrom for a dad, she gets Aether. If she has Virion, she gets the mage line and slightly better Skill/Speed caps, in exchange for slightly worse Strength/Luck ones. If she has Stahl, she sacrifices some Speed for Strength. Either way, she can either be a wrecking ball up front because Lancefaire and Galeforce in the same unpromoted unit is ridiculous.

Frederick: It's, uh, Sully. With a lot more Skill and a little more of mostly everything else?

Vaike: She'll be a glass cannon that never runs out of weapon uses and is nigh-untouchable for the first seven turns. Her final class would probably be a flying unit, since she'll get Bowbreaker but no Bowfaire, and Vaike has really nice Strength mods.

Kellam: His class set and mods confuse me. I guess she can do something like sturdy Trickster, since she can get Swordfaire to her name?

Lon'qu: If you ever wanted to make the most ridiculous Swordmaster who runs all over the field and isn't hit by anything, this is how to do it.

Ricken: He wasn't included with the lump of men on top because his mods are really, REALLY different. Kjelle would probably be something magical. She'd still be fast, but her class options would be turned upside down.

Gaius: Somewhat similar to Lon'qu, but she can inherit Sol, which means she doesn't have to concentrate on dodging quite as much.

Donnel: This is where I hack out the DLC and put Kjelle in a wedding dress, because that's about all Underdog is good for (anyone that wants to sing the praises of Aptitude in this scenario will be ignored; I'm going for long-term practicality here, and Aptitude is not a long-term skill).

Gregor: She'd be Sol on wings. Wyvern wings, that is.

Libra: Perhaps a really dumb undying build featuring Nosferatu and Renewal? No negative mods, but what he gives is pretty wonky.

Henry: Dual Support+/Demoiselle/Anathema is just begging to be shoved in back, but this is the theoretical universe where Sully can get Galeforce. . .but Anathema/Gamble/that Skill cap also begs for a dedicated crit build. . .ah, Henry, why must you offer so many options?

Edited January 10, 2016 by eclipse