RJWalker Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Absolutely. Ditch marriage, kids, pair up, avatar, the artist and the art director, bring back weapon durabilty, a weight system, rescue, capture, shove. I hate everything about the new direction FE has taken, both from a gameplay and story/plot perspective. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheAstraWolf Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 For me, they should have the kids still be in but take their overpowerdness or just have stats already set for them. Like, not have a mixture of their parents stats, but rather their own stats Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Absolutely. Ditch marriage, kids, pair up, avatar, the artist and the art director, bring back weapon durabilty, a weight system, rescue, capture, shove. I hate everything about the new direction FE has taken, both from a gameplay and story/plot perspective. Rescue, Capture, and Shove ARE in Fates mate. Also, while Weight is not present in Fates, the new system does the same job without being as flawed and biased as weight and con, or being rendered completely pointless mid to lategame like Tellius' and SD's weight system. Seriously, Weight is so flawed I honestly don't understand how it got to be so popular. Different strokes for different folks I guess Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I highly doubt that Fates' weapon system will even come close to flawless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I highly doubt that Fates' weapon system will even come close to flawless. From what I've seen, it at least has less flaws than weapon weight. It probably won't be flawless, but what I've seen/read on this sight appears way superior to weapon weight. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gradivus. Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 (edited) Weight is removed anyway, so I wouldn't take it as a comparison as to if that system is an improvement. I mean I'm glad weight is gone and I think the only game doing it well is FE6, but it never was hugely bad (except in FE4 and before), and from stat debuffs specifically I get the impression that they're pretty arbitrary. As for most of the rest, I can't judge because I didn't read enough spoilers to figure out about other effects, and the 1-2 range being unable to double thing might well have potential (although they should have more might so they don't suck). I also found it bad that they took these as an excuse to exclude weapon durability because I like that kind of vague weapon management, but that's not really a fault of the system itself. It might have something to do with how everyone ganged up on weapon durability and hyped weapon effects at the same time. Edited January 10, 2016 by Gradivus. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I say keep Fate's gameplay but take out marriage/children and Avatars. Go back to writing interesting interpersonal relationships without feeling obligated to accommodate for player worship and eugenics. I don't mind a customizable MC, but take the focus away from "Who do I, the player, want to bang?" I just got an idea~! When the player starts out, everyone can be supported. As soon as the player chooses someone, certain units drop out of the support pool, while others have their support cap limited (for a contrived Awakening example, if I chose to support Vaike, then Miriel can no longer support with me, and Sully can only get up to B). I don't mind the concept of the player-created character having the option of supporting everyone, BUT I think it would be cool if there were social consequences for being seen with certain people. Fates would've been an excellent setting for this! But the answer is yes and no - yes because there were some things that worked in the older games (I miss affinities), and no because I want to see what other things can be tweaked - perhaps there's a change that has yet to be made that'll appeal to me! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I just got an idea~! When the player starts out, everyone can be supported. As soon as the player chooses someone, certain units drop out of the support pool, while others have their support cap limited (for a contrived Awakening example, if I chose to support Vaike, then Miriel can no longer support with me, and Sully can only get up to B). I don't mind the concept of the player-created character having the option of supporting everyone, BUT I think it would be cool if there were social consequences for being seen with certain people. Fates would've been an excellent setting for this! But the answer is yes and no - yes because there were some things that worked in the older games (I miss affinities), and no because I want to see what other things can be tweaked - perhaps there's a change that has yet to be made that'll appeal to me! I like this idea, mostly because I'd love it if marring Tiki in Awakening put me at odds with Say ri for literally banging her religion, as well as Henry and Tharja for going against the Grimleal in literally the most blatant way possible. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
solrocknroll Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 I despise weapon weight. I love marriage and avatars. I love Awakening and Birthright more than any other FE. I love branching promotions and reclass and Casual Mode even if I don't use it. When it comes to non-mechanics, I enjoy having generic evil antagonists. Any time FE has tried at antagonists with depth, they've failed (Lyon/Hardin/Zephiel) so I enjoy entertaining antagonists like Gangrel. FE5 already has generic antagonist Berdo as the final boss, so anything else is an improvement. I actually like the designs of the kids and I enjoy their personalities. I'd prefer a better explanation than what we have in Fates, but I love what we have now. Children are basically just a fancy way of implementing more 'Est' units. And yes, Est units are not good design whatsoever. Either they are useless or you train them enough to be overpowered. No in-between. As a one-off gimmick/addition (Nino?) they can be okay. But only standalone in each game. It's cool to have a unit that you can train to feel satisfaction/joy from doing so but beyond that they aren't a practical addition. Ests have been in literally every game in the series. Est? Check. Elincia? Check. Zeiss or Sophia? Check. Thracia has Sara. RD has some spoilery Ests. It seems you have a fundamental issue with a regular FE archetype. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted January 9, 2016 Share Posted January 9, 2016 Ests have been in literally every game in the series. Est? Check. Elincia? Check. Zeiss or Sophia? Check. Thracia has Sara. RD has some spoilery Ests. It seems you have a fundamental issue with a regular FE archetype. Pretty sure he's reffering to how many "Ests" Awakening and Fates offers, and doesn't have issues with the archetype itself. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) Rescue, Capture, and Shove ARE in Fates mate. Nitpick but the capture in fates are completely different than the capture that people are referring to when they say they want capture Weapon weight isn't inherently a bad idea, but I don't like IS's idea of con distribution for female characters so I don't like IS's implementation of it. The new weapon system looks interesting and honestly, weapon durability didn't really serve to challenge me much anyway---not like I didn't buy 40 killers and javelins and just kept them in the convoy anyway so I don't really mind that it's gone. It's more or less of an annoyance than served anything really strategic, outside of S rank usages and very situational moments where I have like 2 javelins left so I do that to get a EP weapon swap. But that's not really common enough. Edited January 10, 2016 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 In regards to the con and weight system, I'd say Fates' weapon effects are a much better choice. Reductions to AS are much more transparent to the player about how they will determine doubling potential than weight/con. It's also less biased against certain characters, particularly females. I just got an idea~!When the player starts out, everyone can be supported. As soon as the player chooses someone, certain units drop out of the support pool, while others have their support cap limited (for a contrived Awakening example, if I chose to support Vaike, then Miriel can no longer support with me, and Sully can only get up to B). I don't mind the concept of the player-created character having the option of supporting everyone, BUT I think it would be cool if there were social consequences for being seen with certain people. Fates would've been an excellent setting for this! While the idea has some promise, I think the limitations on support partners might seem arbitrary if players aren't aware of the relationship between characters. People would become frustrated because their support pool was narrowing down in ways they couldn't predict. I have my own ideas about how you can preserve the "support everyone" feature of the MC/Avatar, but making it more sensible. The first is to choose, say, one of five personality types at character creation and have that determine whom you are able to support with. Alternatively you could choose your country of origin which will narrow down who you're able to make friends with. The second one is to tie marriage to the plot. Say the MC and/or Avatar needs to secure some alliances and the method for that is through political marriage. Characters you recruit would belong to a certain faction and choosing to marry any person of that faction would get you their allegiance and limit who you can support after that. However they do it, I would hope future games wouldn't make the player 'Mr. Charisma' that is loved by all. I play games to distance myself from reality, guys! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wponinw Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Conquest plays like older games and it's definitely funner to play than Birthright (even tho nohr sucks!!11111) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 When it comes down to it, every FE has their own ways of working. Who knows what would happen if we were to merge some other ideas than have been already? Theoretically, having all the various different systems working in conjunction with each other would be a bit wonky probably. Rescue, Capture, and Shove ARE in Fates mate. Capture works nothing like it did in Thracia though, which relied on the desperation of Leif and co needing to get weapons and stuff from their foes, not torturing their foes into joining their cause. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Knight Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 I actually really like the graphical design of the new FE games, at least the way character faces look, the way colours are used, and battle. I just wish weapon and armour/clothing design didn't look so darn goofy more often than not, it's hard to take a game seriously when much of my army is wearing bikinis or helmets shaped like spaceships. As for gameplay, I didn't really like Awakening. I don't really like a strategy RPG where infinite grinding is allowed because I'm not sure if it's something I'm expected to partake in or not. I dislike the lack of stealing, the lack of variety in map objectives and bonus rewards, and I thought the reclassing system was annoyingly tedious and tended towards a grindy gameplay over a strategic one. I heard Fates though is really good in fixing a lot of things I didn't like in Awakening, so I guess I'll see how that turns out. Children don't really bug me too much, but I'd really rather not have them if they're going to find some flimsy excuse to have them fit with the plot. From Awakening and what I've heard of Fates, I think IS's writing staff needs to reevaluate themselves and maybe layoff and/or hire a better writing team. There's so many anime cliches and overall silliness and lazy writing in Awakening, and they're too afraid of killing characters off or taking any of their story seriously. Support conversations are more than half the time really dumb, worldbuilding sucks, and the lack of base conversations continues to make me sad. Say what you will about past Fire Emblem stories, at least most of the time they didn't feel tonally and structurally the same as any other JRPG. I don't really like self-inserts like the avatar, but if they're going to continue to be present, they should at least be done with some effort. Robin is one of the most forgettable protagonists in a series where every other protagonist is forgettable. The idea of having a customizable character is nice, yet the avatar lacks a lot of customization options that are basic in other games. The game doesn't let you customize your character to look like anything else than a pretty boy/girl anime protagonist, and the lack of skin colour, facial hair, clothing and colour options really limits what's possible. The protagonist has hardly any depth, and lack of things like dialogue trees make their lines feel alienating. Gameplay-wise though, having a custom character is fun, and if it were done better it could be really fun. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 While the idea has some promise, I think the limitations on support partners might seem arbitrary if players aren't aware of the relationship between characters. People would become frustrated because their support pool was narrowing down in ways they couldn't predict. I have my own ideas about how you can preserve the "support everyone" feature of the MC/Avatar, but making it more sensible. The first is to choose, say, one of five personality types at character creation and have that determine whom you are able to support with. Alternatively you could choose your country of origin which will narrow down who you're able to make friends with. The second one is to tie marriage to the plot. Say the MC and/or Avatar needs to secure some alliances and the method for that is through political marriage. Characters you recruit would belong to a certain faction and choosing to marry any person of that faction would get you their allegiance and limit who you can support after that. However they do it, I would hope future games wouldn't make the player 'Mr. Charisma' that is loved by all. I play games to distance myself from reality, guys! It wouldn't be totally without logic! I'll use a much clearer example - Shinon. Shinon has a huge problem with laguz. So if your theoretical avatar is getting chummy with Lethe, it's safe to say that he's gonna wanna hang around you less! It forces the player to take note of everyone's likes and dislikes if done correctly, BUT I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing! It also forces the writers to give some depth to the characters. I wouldn't mind seeing it done like FE7, where we learn about the minor character's backstories and true personalities through supports. Marrying for political reasons would be cool, too. Not sure about personality types limiting only support conversations, because I feel that should have an impact on the entire game script! But now we're going into really badass ideas for future Fire Emblems! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 If someone is willing to write that many alternate variations, it actually sounds quite fun to program too Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eclipse Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 If someone is willing to write that many alternate variations, it actually sounds quite fun to program too The support part, or the "change the entire script based on personality and actions" part? 'cause I'm tempted to make a VERY SHORT example of this. Unfortunately, I know crap-all about optimization. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thor Odinson Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) The support part, or the "change the entire script based on personality and actions" part? 'cause I'm tempted to make a VERY SHORT example of this. Unfortunately, I know crap-all about optimization. Both. I've always loved the idea of options changing based on choices the player makes, but found the roadblock always being the sheer volume of writing required. I like the idea of characters keeping their character development after accessing x support instead of reverting whenever a new C support gets accessed, for example, which is the primary downfall of being able to support everyone on your support list in the same run ,something I otherwise like because it lets you see more of a given character in a run if the player chooses to. I know a few things about optimization at least? Unfortunately, I don't make enough money myself to be able to pay reasonable compensation for you to do this in DoF :P Budget! Edited January 10, 2016 by Thor Odinson Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NekoKnight Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 It wouldn't be totally without logic! I'll use a much clearer example - Shinon. Shinon has a huge problem with laguz. So if your theoretical avatar is getting chummy with Lethe, it's safe to say that he's gonna wanna hang around you less! It forces the player to take note of everyone's likes and dislikes if done correctly, BUT I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing! It also forces the writers to give some depth to the characters. I wouldn't mind seeing it done like FE7, where we learn about the minor character's backstories and true personalities through supports. Marrying for political reasons would be cool, too. Not sure about personality types limiting only support conversations, because I feel that should have an impact on the entire game script! But now we're going into really badass ideas for future Fire Emblems! Okay, that makes more sense. When you have characters with widely divergent interests, it would be sensible to alienate certain people by befriending others such as marrying your best friend's daughter from the future but most games have the majority of the cast being fairly harmonious so it's hard to imagine. Like, Maybe Vaike and Miriel have clashing personalities but that's not a good enough reason to say I can't befriend both. It's certainly doable but you'd have to put the work in for writing the characters in a way that justifies the divergences. That's why I think personality types or personal backgrounds are better way to divide things up (and easier to plan because you decide how support pools are determined ahead of time instead of how the level of support of every character will affect your future support options). Personality types would definitely affect more than just the supports. It might be interesting to unlock different units or chapters based on, say, a more aggressive personality vs a more calm and diplomatic protagonist. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJWalker Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Rescue, Capture, and Shove ARE in Fates mate. Only in a butchered fashion. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Only in a butchered fashion. Capture yes is butchered, but there. Rescue is actually buffed, so it's not butchered, and shove works exactly how it did in Tellius. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Topazd Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Rescue is actually buffed, so it's not butchered But the fact that it's no longer stat penalties for carrying another unit makes it a fundamentally different system altogether. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
maybe Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 Capture yes is butchered, but there. Rescue is actually buffed, so it's not butchered, and shove works exactly how it did in Tellius.the thing is that capture is a completely different thing; you might as well say that they didn't get rid of warp because of the warp skillthe bigger problem with rescue and shove is that for both of them, unless a character started with it or in the right class, you will have to reclass them tothe class that gets rescue or shove and get them to level 10. In addition, you'll have to use up a skill slot with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MCProductions Posted January 10, 2016 Share Posted January 10, 2016 (edited) But the fact that it's no longer stat penalties for carrying another unit makes it a fundamentally different system altogether. Considering that Savior exists in the older games with these abilities, they really should of just called it Savior in Fates, but that's besides the point. the thing is that capture is a completely different thing; you might as well say that they didn't get rid of warp because of the warp skill the bigger problem with rescue and shove is that for both of them, unless a character started with it or in the right class, you will have to reclass them tothe class that gets rescue or shove and get them to level 10. In addition, you'll have to use up a skill slot with it. I don't like that fact either. I hate how doubleing and landing crits are skills in FE4, and they did it again with Rescue. Shove's been a skill since RD, so I give that a pass. My point is simply that these systems are there. Whether or not they are implemented well depends on the taste of the player. Edited January 10, 2016 by MCProductions Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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