Soleil Support Changed in NA/Europe Localization + Shara/Syalla Name Change

[BlueSS1]

Rhajat isn't Japanese, but it's not like Syalla/Shara was either, so I don't think it's that big of a deal. I'm gonna guess Doralice (though this isn't Japanese unlike Matoi) and Usagi for the other two.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Be careful with this mentality.

Put sugar in my drink and I suggest clearing out the bathroom for the next half-hour (and then arrange a ride for me, because I won't be able to drive straight). Put chili pepper (or pepper) in my food and have an Epi-Pen ready, because the last time I ate anything close to it, my throat did weird things. . .and THEN call the hospital, because I react badly to antihistamines (but at least I'll be able to breathe).

Some people react badly to unexpected things, so putting things in other people's food, even as a prank, should not be encouraged.

Don't get me started on cross-contamination.

Hence, why I said in a latter post:

What Kamui did isn't as bad as stabbing someone XD

The main problem is that there's a very fine line between when something can be considered funny and done for laughs and when things get much more serious than that. For example, lacing someone's food with ground-up chili peppers. That would be funny and I would laugh if my friends did that (unless it happened to me. No shame). However, if the victim was allergic to chili peppers and went into anapylactic shock, it becomes much less funny and you can bet your life that people are gonna get in trouble for that. Similarly, Orochi/Kamui/Whoever giving her the powder as a prank might be funny to some, maybe eye-rolling to others but there would be no doubt that it would be intended to be a comedy support. Kamui putting the powder in her drink to help her with her girl problems is...not.

TL;DR- it's all fun and games until someone winds up hurt (or accusations of Gay Conversion are thrown around as they case may be).

[Leif]

Hmm, "Cordelia" anagram? Sounds like a nightmare for the localization team because of the "C" and "D". "Rhajat" isn't too terrible, but it does sound Hindi. Perhaps the Wind Tribe could have some Hindu themes?

Gurei/Gray is totally going to be Usagi. Has to.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Leif

[PuffPuff]

Be careful with this mentality.

Put sugar in my drink and I suggest clearing out the bathroom for the next half-hour (and then arrange a ride for me, because I won't be able to drive straight). Put chili pepper (or pepper) in my food and have an Epi-Pen ready, because the last time I ate anything close to it, my throat did weird things. . .and THEN call the hospital, because I react badly to antihistamines (but at least I'll be able to breathe).

Some people react badly to unexpected things, so putting things in other people's food, even as a prank, should not be encouraged.

Don't get me started on cross-contamination.

I think it's kinda jarring, given Hoshido's culture. Had it been any other FE game, I probably wouldn't care.

Still, a minor nitpick like this isn't enough to stop the hype~!

My issue is with consent. If he'd cleared it with her, I'd have no problems with it, whether it be powder or a spell.

True.

There isn't much to reflect on this when drugging someone would normally be offensive. But...in medieval times...writing your own rules...well...

Already too late.

They are already burning the homosexual supports in a lake of fire. I REALLY hope that it is true that they are going to keep them but the Soleli one, or at least change them to have them more fitting for the United States enviroment.

Hmm, "Cordelia" anagram? Sounds like a nightmare for the localization team because of the "C" and "D". "Rhajat" isn't too terrible, but it does sound Hindi. Perhaps the Wind Tribe could have some Hindu themes?

Gurei/Gray is totally going to be Usagi. Has to.

It is typical that an earlier game had a character named "Grey" (FE2).

At least some older characters aren't to be forgotten. This character is just a Gaius rip with grey hair.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Lin_Lee_Koo

[Sunwoo]

Personally, I find "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt" to be a terrible mentality. If you play a prank on someone that didn't physically harm them, but they are not cool with it and it negatively affects your relationship/friendship with them, that is on you and it's your fault for caring more about getting your giggles than giving a shit about someone else's feelings. And it's not a matter of being "too sensitive", some people really don't like pranks or being pranked.

I, personally, despise pranks. Anyone who pulls a major prank on me can expect to go right onto my shitlist. Now, if you know that someone is okay with pranks then that's one thing. But if you know very little about the person to begin with, do you really want to risk it?

EDIT: At the very least I can at least understand why many people have a problem with the whole "Kamui puts something in Soleil's drink" aspect of the supports. Me, I just think the support is stupid and the topic is stupid, but I highly disagree with some of the attitudes here regarding how okay it is to slip things into people's consumables and whether it's funny or not.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Sunwoo

[PuffPuff]

Personally, I find "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt" to be a terrible mentality. If you play a prank on someone that didn't physically harm them, but they are not cool with it and it negatively affects your relationship/friendship with them, that is on you and it's your fault for caring more about getting your giggles than giving a shit about someone else's feelings. And it's not a matter of being "too sensitive", some people really don't like pranks or being pranked.

I, personally, despise pranks. Anyone who pulls a major prank on me can expect to go right onto my shitlist. Now, if you know that someone is okay with pranks then that's one thing. But if you know very little about the person to begin with, do you really want to risk it?

EDIT: At the very least I can at least understand why many people have a problem with the whole "Kamui puts something in Soleil's drink" aspect of the supports. Me, I just think the support is stupid and the topic is stupid, but I highly disagree with some of the attitudes here regarding how okay it is to slip things into people's consumables and whether it's funny or not.

This right here is why that they are changing it.

Keeping youngsters from possible committing the unthinkable may happen, but if they tell them that it's just a game...well...Nintendo doesn't want to risk it, so it has to be done.

[Tryhard]

there was already a lot of discussion in that other topic

but tl;dr: I don't mind it being changed, but I dislike that people tried to say things about the support that were false because of misinterpretation and blew it out of proportion. At the same time, I can't agree with some people's opinions on liking it being changed because it offends them. (as if having a different version of the game changes what the original writing actually was)

[Sunwoo]

Does it count as being offended if the support offends me as a writer? Because while I can see why the subject matter of the support is controversial, my bigger problem with the support is that it's just really dumb and poorly written.

[Tryhard]

That's fine. The support was pretty shit, after all. lol

I meant more in the "I will take offense to the whole sexuality thing" instead of just accepting that Soleil is pretty poorly written and Kamui is a moron for violating consent to use magic powder. Which is pretty dumb already.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Tryhard

[Time the Crestfallen]

Personally, I find "it's all fun and games until someone gets hurt" to be a terrible mentality. If you play a prank on someone that didn't physically harm them, but they are not cool with it and it negatively affects your relationship/friendship with them, that is on you and it's your fault for caring more about getting your giggles than giving a shit about someone else's feelings. And it's not a matter of being "too sensitive", some people really don't like pranks or being pranked.

I, personally, despise pranks. Anyone who pulls a major prank on me can expect to go right onto my shitlist. Now, if you know that someone is okay with pranks then that's one thing. But if you know very little about the person to begin with, do you really want to risk it?

EDIT: At the very least I can at least understand why many people have a problem with the whole "Kamui puts something in Soleil's drink" aspect of the supports. Me, I just think the support is stupid and the topic is stupid, but I highly disagree with some of the attitudes here regarding how okay it is to slip things into people's consumables and whether it's funny or not.

Did I say that it was a good mentality? No. It's so unbelievably stupid that it physically hurts me when people defend themselves with 'we were just messing around'. Hell, people at my High School almost died because a group of about 20 people decided that the rules against bringing peanuts to school and eating in class were 'total bullshit' and took it upon themselves to make a game out of eating as much food (including peanut products) as they possibly could without getting caught by the teachers. Five people went into anaphylactic shock from the residue alone. It's not about whether or not it's a stupid mentality, it's about the mentality being a thing that makes people due unbelievably idiotic things. I find some pranks funny because I'm prone terrible cases of Schadenfreude and other people's misfortune/suffering is just inherently amusing to me for some reason (maybe because I only notice such things when it's someone I don't like suffering), but in no way am I saying that the mentality should be encouraged.

[Dualazi]

This right here is why that they are changing it.

Keeping youngsters from possible committing the unthinkable may happen, but if they tell them that it's just a game...well...Nintendo doesn't want to risk it, so it has to be done.

This is one of the worst mentalities for changing anything in my opinion, regardless of the quality of the support/backstory/event. It's been relatively well documented that videogames, and by extension art at large, is not a major contributing factor to crimes committed. There have been countless moral panics regarding this since the 80s, and none of them have borne fruit, with frequent videogame players often being more well adjusted than the average member of society. Especially in a T rated game, the idea that we should change anything (regardless of quality, as I have said, 'cause I'm not going to defend the support as well written.) to "think of the children" is moronic in the extreme.

It's also a little concerning how in this thread and the 'Controversial Aspects' one, people seem to be veering close to implying that there are certain things that shouldn't crop up in the medium ever, which I also vehemently disagree with. To clarify, I'm not trying to put words into anyone's mouths here. It's just that there are a lot of really good works of art/film/literature that have influential characters, sometimes even the main character, doing despicable things. Sometimes they receive comeuppance for their crimes, sometimes not, but to really embrace the idea of games as an artistic medium (as I do) you can't really ever say "well, I don't want to be seen as supporting X Y or Z, so we just won't talk about those."

Apologies for getting a little tangential there, I'm fully aware that Fates isn't going to be the high-minded mature artform that embodies those ideals, but things like this set a very dangerous precedent to me, and Nintendo already has a crummy track record with localization, from outright censorship to the inclusion of memes.

[Sunwoo]

That comment wasn't directed at just you, but people in general who do think that mentality is okay. Because I feel like I have seen people arguing just that.

[eclipse]

TL;DR- it's all fun and games until someone winds up hurt (or accusations of Gay Conversion are thrown around as they case may be).

You wouldn't have known this until I told you. And even those who know that I react badly to foods don't have the full list of what gets me sick, so you could try to do something cute like furikake in my rice, and then you'd have to find someone to drive me home, because I react badly to seaweed, too.

Thus, your sentiment doesn't fly with me.

Does it count as being offended if the support offends me as a writer? Because while I can see why the subject matter of the support is controversial, my bigger problem with the support is that it's just really dumb and poorly written.

Yes

Like, if Kamui got into major trouble for his actions, I'd be a lot less irritated. Since Kamui is supposed to be the self-insert, Nintendo's implying that if you can come up with a good enough excuse, you can get away with some really sketchy things.

[PuffPuff]

Plus lets not forget that it's petifile/pedophile if the Avatar marries Soleli. :/

But...this is MEDIEVAL TIMES.

There are no rules. But...still changing Soleli's convo to at least a better level for international releases will do to have others enjoy the game!

Edited January 23, 2016 by Lin_Lee_Koo

[Time the Crestfallen]

You wouldn't have known this until I told you. And even those who know that I react badly to foods don't have the full list of what gets me sick, so you could try to do something cute like furikake in my rice, and then you'd have to find someone to drive me home, because I react badly to seaweed, too.

Thus, your sentiment doesn't fly with me.

My sentiment? How does pointing out that the mentality is a thing make it 'my' sentiment? Yes, I laugh at pranks. But I also laugh at fail videos, dead baby jokes, murder jokes and other black humour stuff, but that's because my sense of humour is so gallows it might as well be represented by a screenshot from Town of Salem. If I laugh at a joke about murder, does that mean I support, fantasise about or intend to commit murder? No it doesn't. Does my pointing out that the 'it's all fun and games' mentality exist mean that I support or indulge in that mentality? It shouldn't, but I'm sorry if that's the way I made it seem.

Also, I feel like I should point out for the third time that I'm not defending Kamui putting the powder in Soleil's drink! I have stated numerous times that it was a shithead thing to do and that it's part of the reason the support is being changed. I fully support NoA rewriting this support into something completely different. My arguement was against people comparing it to spiking someone's food/drink with alcohol/date-rape/psychoactive/psychedelic/whatever drugs is both inaccurate and an over-reaction. Are the implications unfortunate, very much so, but comparing drugs with well-documented negative side-effects and that have caused countless incidents of crippling accidents and fatalities to some made-up magic powder that sounds like something you'd buy from Weasley's Wizard Wheezers is a misrepresentation of what happens in the support in terms of effects and severity.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Phillius

[PuffPuff]

My sentiment? How does pointing out that the mentality is a thing make it 'my' sentiment? Yes, I laugh at pranks. But I also laugh at fail videos, dead baby jokes, murder jokes and other black humour stuff, but that's because my sense of humour is so gallows it might as well be represented by a screenshot from Town of Salem. If I laugh at a joke about murder, does that mean I support, fantasise about or intend to commit murder? No it doesn't. Does my pointing out that the 'it's all fun and games' mentality exist mean that I support or indulge in that mentality? It shouldn't, but I'm sorry if that's the way I made it seem.

Also, I feel like I should point out for the third time that I'm not defending Kamui putting the powder in Soleil's drink! I have stated numerous times that it was a shithead thing to do and that it's part of the reason the support is being changed. I fully support NoA rewriting this support into something completely different. My arguement was against people comparing it to spiking someone's food/drink with alcohol/date-rape/psychoactive/psychedelic/whatever drugs is both inaccurate and an over-reaction. Are the implications unfortunate, very much so, but comparing drugs with well-documented negative side-effects and that have caused countless incidents of crippling accidents and fatalities to some made-up magic powder that sounds like something you'd buy from Weasley's Wizard Wheezers is a misrepresentation of what happens in the support in terms of effects and severity.

The point is that slipping things into people's food/drink, no matter how "innocent" it may seem, is NOT cool. It doesn't matter if it's a roofie or artificial sweetener. The fact that Kamui didn't suffer the negative consequences of his actions is enough justification to change that aspect of the support.

Well...it's a problem to some people since after they've downloaded Kamui into their smash game, well...

Edited January 23, 2016 by Lin_Lee_Koo

[eclipse]

The point is that slipping things into people's food/drink, no matter how "innocent" it may seem, is NOT cool. It doesn't matter if it's a roofie or artificial sweetener. The fact that Kamui didn't suffer the negative consequences of his actions is enough justification to change that aspect of the support.

[PuffPuff]

Why did Japan approve of this anyway?!

What does this warrant from it other than to write your own rules in a savage world environment? It isn't true love after she got drugged, but if it is how to unfold that he is part dragon...well Manakete's aren't known much for the society of humans. So it would make sense as to why that he drugged her.

Edited January 23, 2016 by Lin_Lee_Koo

[Dualazi]

The point is that slipping things into people's food/drink, no matter how "innocent" it may seem, is NOT cool. It doesn't matter if it's a roofie or artificial sweetener. The fact that Kamui didn't suffer the negative consequences of his actions is enough justification to change that aspect of the support.

This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about above, the idea that the devs/translators are obligated to give the support a 'just' end is asinine. Kamui doing underhanded things (whether they help or not) may just be part of their character faults, and it's a bit silly to think that he can only have 'approved' negative aspects to him. Basically, bad people being unpunished for unpopular crimes isn't really an argument for changing the script, as the audience's comfort shouldn't be a driving concern for the writers.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Well...it's a problem to some people since after they've downloaded Kamui into their smash game, well...

Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say, Nohr (bu-dum tss!) do I understand what it has to do with the support.

The point is that slipping things into people's food/drink, no matter how "innocent" it may seem, is NOT cool. It doesn't matter if it's a roofie or artificial sweetener. The fact that Kamui didn't suffer the negative consequences of his actions is enough justification to change that aspect of the support.

And I agree with you. In no way am I defending Kamui's actions in the support, Nohr (Bu-dum tss!) would I support doing such things in real-life (my laughing at such things is more to do with me having an eff-ed up sense of humour than any sort of approval). I'm just saying that it's one thing to say that Kamui was a dickhead and in the wrong (true), but something else entirely to compare it to lacing her food/drink with alcohol or illicit and potentially dangerous drugs (false).

Edited January 23, 2016 by Phillius

[PuffPuff]

Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say, Nohr (bu-dum tss!) do I understand what it has to do with the support.

After finding out that M Kamui was a drugger to Soleli...I mean. :/

[eclipse]

This is exactly the type of thing I was talking about above, the idea that the devs/translators are obligated to give the support a 'just' end is asinine. Kamui doing underhanded things (whether they help or not) may just be part of their character faults, and it's a bit silly to think that he can only have 'approved' negative aspects to him. Basically, bad people being unpunished for unpopular crimes isn't really an argument for changing the script, as the audience's comfort shouldn't be a driving concern for the writers.

You might have had a hint of agreement if Kamui wasn't meant to be the self-insert character. My case with food is a very extreme example, but it's an illustration of what happens when people don't tell me about what goes into my food. Since this is potentially a life-and-death situation for me, I absolutely do not any sort of tacit agreement from anyone that such behavior is okay.

But that would mean that you'd have to know just what kind of nonsense I go through when it comes to food. For those with certain intolerances (gluten comes to mind), there's a chunk of the population that's convinced that it's fake, and that putting the offending substance into their food is fine (sound familiar?). That mindset needs to go, and the more places that shout it down, the better.

Sorry, but I don't understand what you're trying to say, Nohr (bu-dum tss!) do I understand what it has to do with the support.

And I agree with you. In no way am I defending Kamui's actions in the support, Nohr (Bu-dum tss!) would I support doing such things in real-life (my laughing at such things is more to do with me having an eff-ed up sense of humour than any sort of approval). I'm just saying that it's one thing to say that Kamui was a dickhead and in the wrong (true), but something else entirely to compare it to lacing her food/drink with alcohol or illicit and potentially dangerous drugs (false).

I think the sticking point is that what you consider dangerous and what I consider dangerous are two very different things. Since my list of things that make me ill is so ridiculously long, I'm not okay with putting anything in anyone's food without their consent.

[Time the Crestfallen]

After finding out that M Kamui was a drugger to Soleli...I mean. :/

So...one poorly-written, clumsily executed support that is going to get rewritten is indicative of Kamui's entire personality? I mean, Kamui never does anything else like this in their other supports (as far as I know) and the whole thing is badly written enough that I (and many others surely) would like to pretend that it doesn't exist.

I think the sticking point is that what you consider dangerous and what I consider dangerous are two very different things. Since my list of things that make me ill is so ridiculously long, I'm not okay with putting anything in anyone's food without their consent.

Eh, that's fair. I mean, my only allergy is flower pollen from Jasmine flowers, so I have absolutely no clue what it's like to have to have to constantly worry about what's been put into my food. Continuing with the same examples I've been using for a while, if someone put salt into my tea or chili peppers into my food I'd be annoyed, but I wouldn't fly off the handle the way I would if someone tried the same trick with alcohol whereas I imagine that those are all very dangerous for you. I suppose it's like you said; opinions on how dangerous or despicable Kamui's actions are is variable depending on personal interpretation.

[PuffPuff]

So...one poorly-written, clumsily executed support that is going to get rewritten is indicative of Kamui's entire personality? I mean, Kamui never does anything else like this in their other supports (as far as I know) and the whole thing is badly written enough that I (and many others surely) would like to pretend that it doesn't exist.

Sure.

But...if they are changing all gay supports...well...it is a problem since this alone is what separates the game from the rest of the series. But...if were not getting any homosexual relationships at all...welll...this is going to kill sales big time and all hell will break loose.

[Dualazi]

Sure.

But...if they are changing all gay supports...well...it is a problem since this alone is what separates the game from the rest of the series. But...if were not getting any homosexual relationships at all...welll...this is going to kill sales big time and all hell will break loose.

I can't even imagine NoA being suicidal enough to remove the homosexual romance options, after already leaking that they're in, it would just be a storm of insane proportions. No chance, in my opinion. I think the reason this is changed at all is because there were troublesome accusations of it being "gay conversion" which isn't accurate, but they obviously want to avoid even the veneer of being anti-gay, especially with how much it's been in the media in recent history. Still sad to see them give into fear-mongering, though.