Is Fates skinship removal that big of thing?

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

Maybe they changed their mind on Skinship. They probably thought it was a good idea at the time, but came to regret it and now would rather pretend that it never happened.

i can see that, i mean i'm sure we all went threw a teenage phase where we really liked something wierd, like a fetish or a political belief, but then as we grew older we were like "nah thats embarressing" and did our best to make sure that noone found out.

[Topaz Light]

Multiple people have received emails confirming it's out, and the IGN podcast Nintendo Voice Chat said likewise.

I'd like to fire out for the umpteenth time that (a) a large part of the actual dev team didn't want it in the first place and (b) all NOJ videos showcasing skinship (May Direct, My Castle overview) have been made private.

It could very well be something bigger than just "NOA Testers were weirded out by it so they cut it".

First of all, this is a good, informative post.

Second of all, I realize my first post in this thread was mostly shallow vitriol, so I'd like to explain in detail why I'm opposed to having it in the game, and therefore why I'm glad that it's been axed from the Western version.

It's been said before, but the mechanic, especially considering how lewd some of the associated voice clips get, is uncomfortably close to something from a porn game. Yes, it's optional, but even just having it in the game establishes a precedent for such salacious content being in future games, as well. Given that My Room could be interpreted as being a step further than some things that were in Awakening (like the Confession CGs- which I personally found to be relatively innocuous and even rather cute a lot of the time- or the fanservice DLC), what I really don't want to have happen is for the series to go "just a step further" again and again, until it's a series of full-blown, M-rated porn games. I understand that I may be jumping the gun a bit by assuming that that's as likely as I'm making it out to be, but judging from just Awakening, I'd say it would've been jumping the gun to say that the next game would have things like face-petting and stripping units down to their underwear, and yet those are all things that are in Fire Emblem Fates.

The reason I'm glad it's getting removed isn't because I'm happy that we're getting a "censored" version of the game; it's because the removal of the feature should tell the development team that that sort of content isn't going to fly in a series like Fire Emblem, which hopefully should discourage them from putting that sort of content in future installments.

Don't get me wrong, I'm all for having more ways to interact with the characters, and more ways to express their personalities and learn about them! But there are tons of better ways to do that as opposed to something like Skinshipping, and I'm hoping that IS will take the hint from this and start exploring those other venues instead in future games.

They could bring back Base Conversations, so that you could hear what various party members had to say about recent story events, and maybe score some neat items while you're at it! You could give the Avatar dialogue options in both the main story and their Supports, and use the dialogue trees in Supports to add replay value and allow the player to learn more about the characters through expanded interactions. Bring back things like in Fire Emblem 7, where in certain chapters, bringing specific characters would have them give a little bit of dialogue about their feelings regarding the area you were in or what was going on. There are lots of ways to explore characters' personalities, emotions, and histories without resorting to such uncomfortably-ribald content as what was included in Fates. Again, I'm not happy about the fact that we're losing content in itself; what I'm happy about is the message it's sending to Intelligent Systems.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Topaz Light

[NekoKnight]

They could bring back Base Conversations, so that you could hear what various party members had to say about recent story events, and maybe score some neat items while you're at it! You could give the Avatar dialogue options in both the main story and their Supports, and use the dialogue trees in Supports to add replay value and allow the player to learn more about the characters through expanded interactions. Bring back things like in Fire Emblem 7, where in certain chapters, bringing specific characters would have them give a little bit of dialogue about their feelings regarding the area you were in or what was going on. There are lots of ways to explore characters' personalities, emotions, and histories without resorting to such uncomfortably-ribald content as what was included in Fates. Again, I'm not happy about the fact that we're losing content in itself; what I'm happy about is the message it's sending to Intelligent Systems.

Whoa, are you me? I was just discussing this exact topic with someone in a private conversation.

I agree with you wholeheartedly on this. Expanded character interaction is great, but skinship is only something that works for a few kinds of relationships (S ranked characters and maybe parent-child relationships) and even then it can be a bit 2lewd4FireEmblem. I'd welcome back base conversations as optional ways to develop the relationship between the Avatar (presuming it stays in) and other characters.

[Tryhard]

The reason I'm glad it's getting removed isn't because I'm happy that we're getting a "censored" version of the game; it's because the removal of the feature should tell the development team that that sort of content isn't going to fly in a series like Fire Emblem, which hopefully should discourage them from putting that sort of content in future installments.

You do realize that the Japanese version still contains the thing you dislike, even if your childish eyes don't have to (correction: have the option to) gaze upon it. They have included pandering elements in Awakening and it seems to be well worth their while. If they actually did make Fire Emblem into a porn game series (god forbid), what is your argument against it? You don't like it? They don't give a fuck. Many other series have been fucked over by corporate interest and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't like all the hoops people jump through to play this moral game. If anything has told the development team that it isn't going to be a recurring feature, it is because they themselves cowardly took down their original video and are prepared to lie to pretend it never existed for their own reasons, not because they care about the opinions of Western fans, which I don't think they ever did.

But if you want to applaud that, then go right ahead.

EDIT: Once again, I don't actually have a problem with their decision, but I do have a problem with the people happy at the removal of a feature.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Tryhard

[Lyovochka]

i can see that, i mean i'm sure we all went threw a teenage phase where we really liked something wierd, like a fetish or a political belief, but then as we grew older we were like "nah thats embarressing" and did our best to make sure that noone found out.

^^^

My weaboo phase, tbh.

Honestly though, losing the skinship feature isn't really that big of a deal to me, but I'm sorry for those who were looking forward to it!!

[Topaz Light]

You do realize that the Japanese version still contains the thing you dislike, even if your childish eyes don't have to (correction: have the option to) gaze upon it. They have included pandering elements in Awakening and it seems to be well worth their while. If they actually did make Fire Emblem into a porn game series (god forbid), what is your argument against it? You don't like it? They don't give a fuck. Many other series have been fucked over by corporate interest and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't like all the hoops people jump through to play this moral game. If anything has told the development team that it isn't going to be a recurring feature, it is because they themselves cowardly took down their original video and are prepared to lie to pretend it never existed for their own reasons, not because they care about the opinions of Western fans, which I don't think they ever did.

But if you want to applaud that, then go right ahead.

EDIT: Once again, I don't actually have a problem with their decision, but I do have a problem with the people happy at the removal of a feature.

I do indeed realize that, but it seems as though you mean to insinuate that how a game or mechanic is received overseas is meaningless to the progression of a series, which is false in an increasingly-global society. Also, ad hominem attacks don't help your case. You're saying that it's "childish" of me not to want such salacious content in a series I've loved since childhood; I would argue that it was juvenile of Intelligent Systems to include it in the first place.

I'm not even really sure what you're trying to argue here. That just because "There's nothing I can do about it" means I should just shut up about it and take it? There have been many people here talking about "voting with their wallets", so to speak, against the removal of skinshipping. Sad as some may find it, in situations like this, money talks, and therefore the consumers do, in fact, have a say in what creators end up putting out, or at least what they're able to have get professionally-published. Forgive me, but I'm not going to waste my own "vote" promoting somebody else's principles. I personally abhor the idea of Fire Emblem becoming a hentai series, so I'm going to use my "vote"- however little it means by itself- to push the series away from becoming that.

"I don't like it, so nobody else should have it either!" What's so much worse about that than, "I want it, so everybody else should have to put up with their favorite series gradually becoming porn!"? Either way, it's one part of the fanbase getting what they want at another part's expense. And, as you yourself said, it's still in the Japanese version, so if being able to rub people's faces is something you really want that badly, you can always just buy and play the Japanese version of the game. Or look up R18 interactive Flash games. Those'll let you rub more than just faces.

In regards to being happy about the removal of a feature, think of it this way. Sometimes, trees will grow in ways that start to make them dangerous for nearby structures, such as becoming very lopsided and more likely to fall over, or simply having hanging branches getting in the way of things. In instances like these, the troublesome branches are trimmed off to prevent the tree from causing trouble further down the line. You may be against cutting branches off of trees "on principle", but that doesn't mean that cutting those branches off isn't almost entirely upside; the risk of the tree falling on people is gone, and the once-lopsided tree now gets to continue growing in that spot rather than falling down- likely snapping itself apart in the process- and being chopped up and removed entirely. As for censorship being a slippery slope, I would argue that what they're doing with making the games lewder is a slippery slope, as well. If it's a choice between two slippery slopes, then what's wrong with picking the one I personally prefer?

Also, I'd like to remind you that subtracting a negative number actually increases the base number's value.

Finally, you... are aware that you neither have nor deserve a say in other people's feelings, right? Disapprove of them all you want, but they're just as entitled to their own feelings as you are to yours.

And, if I've told people how they should feel about this recent development myself, then please tell me where so I can go back and amend it, since that was never my intention. I'm simply expressing my own feelings and the reason I feel the way I do.

EDIT: Oops I forgot a thing.

Since when is it "cowardice" to decide that something you did was in fact a bad idea and then try to fix the mistake? Pressing forward without being conscious of your mistakes or doing your best to repair the damage is carelessness and idiocy, not courage.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Topaz Light

[Fyras4]

You do realize that the Japanese version still contains the thing you dislike, even if your childish eyes don't have to (correction: have the option to) gaze upon it. They have included pandering elements in Awakening and it seems to be well worth their while. If they actually did make Fire Emblem into a porn game series (god forbid), what is your argument against it? You don't like it? They don't give a fuck. Many other series have been fucked over by corporate interest and there's nothing you can do about it.

I don't like all the hoops people jump through to play this moral game. If anything has told the development team that it isn't going to be a recurring feature, it is because they themselves cowardly took down their original video and are prepared to lie to pretend it never existed for their own reasons, not because they care about the opinions of Western fans, which I don't think they ever did.

At the end of the day, though...they still would think otherwise about including it in future games. Or they could just ignore us and make Fire Emblem a Japanese only series because why not.

Taking a video down (which I don't think they did, unless it was commented on and I missed it) is at worst damage control because people have 'opinions' and a way (or ways to) express them.

------

I never did consider the petting game to be a core feature of the game to warrant cancellation over; from my understanding they included it because they were trying out this new technology and they were like 'how can we use it'. People say its optional and all...and its true but at best its more of a time waster than anything else and the whole raises your relationship thing was just added because they probably didn't know what to do it after making it 'not creepy as before'.

Should they lower the price because its not in the game though?

It depends, really...I mean...are people buying the game...or the aime rip-off? That's the only thing that I wonder about though, not whether people liked it or not.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Fyras4

[Tryhard]

I do indeed realize that, but it seems as though you mean to insinuate that how a game or mechanic is received overseas is meaningless to the progression of a series, which is false in an increasingly-global society. Also, ad hominem attacks don't help your case. You're saying that it's "childish" of me not to want such salacious content in a series I've loved since childhood; I would argue that it was juvenile of Intelligent Systems to include it in the first place.

Childish isn't the word I should have used. It is certainly parental the fact that the localization procedure can decide for you what you should and shouldn't see.

I'm not even really sure what you're trying to argue here. That just because "There's nothing I can do about it" means I should just shut up about it and take it? There have been many people here talking about "voting with their wallets", so to speak, against the removal of skinshipping. Sad as some may find it, in situations like this, money talks, and therefore the consumers do, in fact, have a say in what creators end up putting out, or at least what they're able to have get professionally-published. Forgive me, but I'm not going to waste my own "vote" promoting somebody else's principles. I personally abhor the idea of Fire Emblem becoming a hentai series, so I'm going to use my "vote"- however little it means by itself- to push the series away from becoming that.

Unfortunately not buying the game to show your disapproval rarely matters because a lot of people will buy the game otherwise regardless. I'm not sure I could come up with even one example I'm aware of in which a, I suppose you would say boycott, influenced a series direction. I do have respect for those that would hold to their guns and refuse to buy a wanted game, but it's just unfortunate either way.

Have you really used a "vote" though? From what I've seen, the localization team have done this of their own accord. I'm not sure how you can be certain to say fans have influenced the decision unless there's an interview or such that I've missed?

EDIT: My point wasn't that you should shut up and take it, rather that your personal opinion likely had little effect on the localization supposedly removing it. There's many fans (I would like to say the vast majority enjoyed the choice) that enjoyed the dual audio supplied in the Awakening localization for example, and there has been rumours (though I won't say confirmation) that it won't be available in the Fates localization.

"I don't like it, so nobody else should have it either!" What's so much worse about that than, "I want it, so everybody else should have to put up with their favorite series gradually becoming porn!"? Either way, it's one part of the fanbase getting what they want at another part's expense. And, as you yourself said, it's still in the Japanese version, so if being able to rub people's faces is something you really want that badly, you can always just buy and play the Japanese version of the game. Or look up R18 interactive Flash games. Those'll let you rub more than just faces.

You're extremely exaggerating if you think this is going to lead the series to gradually become porn. It isn't even close. It's a stupid feature that most would just use once or twice and perhaps dislike and never use again. Funnily enough, even if the lines were risque, it's not like they couldn't change them in localization. But instead they decide to just rip the whole thing out.

In regards to being happy about the removal of a feature, think of it this way. Sometimes, trees will grow in ways that start to make them dangerous for nearby structures, such as becoming very lopsided and more likely to fall over, or simply having hanging branches getting in the way of things. In instances like these, the troublesome branches are trimmed off to prevent the tree from causing trouble further down the line. You may be against cutting branches off of trees "on principle", but that doesn't mean that cutting those branches off isn't almost entirely upside; the risk of the tree falling on people is gone, and the once-lopsided tree now gets to continue growing in that spot rather than falling down- likely snapping itself apart in the process- and being chopped up and removed entirely. As for censorship being a slippery slope, I would argue that what they're doing with making the games lewder is a slippery slope, as well. If it's a choice between two slippery slopes, then what's wrong with picking the one I personally prefer?

Also, I'd like to remind you that subtracting a negative number actually increases the base number's value.

Anything you like could be censored, and anything you dislike could remain. While I might disagree with features in their entirety (like skinship), I would rather see them remain for international release instead of denying them from people. If the feature is truly repulsive enough for me to have a personal problem with the game, I'm not going to buy or play it. But I'm also not going to wish for it to be cleansed for my personal entertainment.

So you're saying that a feature that you have no obligation to use is going to make you feel worse about the game just because it is available? Even if it would enhance other people's enjoyment of the game should they choose to partake in it.

EDIT: In some regards, I can see you criticizing the feature, but to want to have it removed to make a "better game" is too extreme for me.

Finally, you... are aware that you neither have nor deserve a say in other people's feelings, right? Disapprove of them all you want, but they're just as entitled to their own feelings as you are to yours.

And, if I've told people how they should feel about this recent development myself, then please tell me where so I can go back and amend it, since that was never my intention. I'm simply expressing my own feelings and the reason I feel the way I do.

I didn't say otherwise. I do disapprove, but that's as much as I can say. I'm not forcing anyone to be outraged (and I'm not myself) but rather tire of the incessant "good, it was creepy anyway" non-argument and other such ones that are happy they are giving away their choice and any respect for the original developer's final product.

Taking a video down (which I don't think they did, unless it was commented on and I missed it) is at worst damage control because people have 'opinions' and a way (or ways to) express them.

Unless I am completely wrong, they took down the original Nintendo Direct that first announced the skinship. It is damage control.

It depends, really...I mean...are people buying the game...or the aime rip-off? That's the only thing that I wonder about though, not whether people liked it or not.

It's a minigame, I highly doubt they're buying it just for that. But removal of any content could be something that influences your buying decision, especially if you are one that takes a hard line stance on censorship.

EDIT: Oops I forgot a thing.

Since when is it "cowardice" to decide that something you did was in fact a bad idea and then try to fix the mistake? Pressing forward without being conscious of your mistakes or doing your best to repair the damage is carelessness and idiocy, not courage.

It's cowardice to not come out and admit your mistake and attempt to hide them (if they even consider it a mistake, we don't fucking know) instead of informing your fanbase that you regret the decision. Or just not wanting to catch flak for it. Edited February 1, 2016 by Tryhard

[Captain Karnage]

I haven't gone through this whole thread but some people I know are like Krieger

so some people aren't very happy that it's gone

me included

Edited February 1, 2016 by Captain Karnage

[Fyras4]

Unless I am completely wrong, they took down the original Nintendo Direct that first announced the skinship. It is damage control.

It's a minigame, I highly doubt they're buying it just for that. But removal of any content could be something that influences your buying decision, especially if you are one that takes hard line stance on censorship.

They did mentioned early in the thread that they had just put it in private...which is basically a bit like the same of removing it...except not really.

-----

True...but if the content had not been added in the first place it wouldn't have changed anything...people would have still found reasons to complain.

Had they (Nintendo and Team Whatits) put their foot down when they had the chance to, people wouldn't have cried 'censorship', which while fair, makes me wonder why everyone is up and arms with a feature, that at best, would get boring after a few hours. I mean, the Pokemon Aime had more things to do than just petting your Pokemon...

Unless...they are planning to replace that minigame with hitting balls of yarn and collecting berries?

Edited February 1, 2016 by Fyras4

[Xaos Steel Wing]

Childish isn't the word I should have used. It is certainly parental the fact that the localization procedure can decide for you what you should and shouldn't see.

Unfortunately not buying the game to show your disapproval rarely matters because a lot of people will buy the game otherwise regardless. I'm not sure I could come up with even one example I'm aware of in which a, I suppose you would say boycott, influenced a series direction. I do have respect for those that would hold to their guns and refuse to buy a wanted game, but it's just unfortunate either way.

Have you really used a "vote" though? From what I've seen, the localization team have done this of their own accord. I'm not sure how you can be certain to say fans have influenced the decision unless there's an interview or such that I've missed?

EDIT: My point wasn't that you should shut up and take it, rather that your personal opinion likely had little effect on the localization supposedly removing it. There's many fans (I would like to say the vast majority enjoyed the choice) that enjoyed the dual audio supplied in the Awakening localization for example, and there has been rumours (though I won't say confirmation) that it won't be available in the Fates localization.

You're extremely exaggerating if you think this is going to lead the series to gradually become porn. It isn't even close. It's a stupid feature that most would just use once or twice and perhaps dislike and never use again. Funnily enough, even if the lines were risque, it's not like they couldn't change them in localization. But instead they decide to just rip the whole thing out.

Anything you like could be censored, and anything you dislike could remain. While I might disagree with features in their entirety (like skinship), I would rather see them remain for international release instead of denying them from people. If the feature is truly repulsive enough for me to have a personal problem with the game, I'm not going to buy or play it. But I'm also not going to wish for it to be cleansed for my personal entertainment.

So you're saying that a feature that you have no obligation to use is going to make you feel worse about the game just because it is available? Even if it would enhance other people's enjoyment of the game should they choose to partake in it.

EDIT: In some regards, I can see you criticizing the feature, but to want to have it removed to make a "better game" is too extreme for me.

I didn't say otherwise. I do disapprove, but that's as much as I can say. I'm not forcing anyone to be outraged (and I'm not myself) but rather tire of the incessant "good, it was creepy anyway" non-argument and other such ones that are happy they are giving away their choice and any respect for the original developer's final product.

Unless I am completely wrong, they took down the original Nintendo Direct that first announced the skinship. It is damage control.

It's a minigame, I highly doubt they're buying it just for that. But removal of any content could be something that influences your buying decision, especially if you are one that takes a hard line stance on censorship.

It's cowardice to not come out and admit your mistake and attempt to hide them (if they even consider it a mistake, we don't fucking know) instead of informing your fanbase that you regret the decision. Or just not wanting to catch flak for it.

This was very well put.

The heart of the matter is that by removing this content, those who don't like it gain nothing as they wouldn't have used the feature and won't get anything different they would use in it's place, while those who wanted it do lose out on a feature they were looking forward to.

Leaving it in, those who don't like it can ignore it with absolutely no loss to them, while those want it can enjoy it.

Removing it is the more harmful option.

Thanks for letting me know you really don't like cherry flavour, too bad you had to get them to take it off the menu so I can't enjoy it.

They don't need to remove cherry flavour from today's menu to add blackberry flavour to tomorrow's.

For a game whose central aspect being advertised was choice, now people turn around and try to remove choices they don't like so others who may have made them can't make them either. In a Western society that is increasingly favouring allowing people to make certain types of choices, this is certainly an odd development. So it's okay for people to make choices, as long as they're not choices you disagree with...?

We can talk about what kind of different feature should have been present for character interaction, but that's beside the point, because THIS is the feature that was present in the original release, and THIS is the feature which will either be kept or removed, so for the purposes of Fates, it doesn't matter what else the feature could have been, it is what it is in the Japanese release.

There is no expense to keeping the feature in to those who don't want it, if it already made it into the Japanese version and now the decision is only whether to include or remove it in the English version.

If the creators realize it's unpopular, they can learn for future games without having to remove it in this one. If they got the message to the point where they consider removing it, what difference does it then make if they remove it or not, if they decide to do something in a different direction for future instalments? If, and I say if, they keep making features like this for Japan, and keep removing them for the West, how is that better?

The slippery slope argument fails here because there is a wall on that slope beyond which Fire Emblem will not slip beyond: the T rating. I don't believe Nintendo will ever release a Fire Emblem game with an M rating, so the barrier is what would fit with the ESRB's Teen rating. The fears some users express on how far the series may go in that direction are therefore completely unfounded and exaggerated. On the other hand, when it comes to censoring and removing content - anything goes, there is no such barrier.

Edited February 1, 2016 by XaosLogos

[REL]

There is no delay. To delay the release of the game out west this close to release date, would cause a huge amount of PR nightmares even skinship couldnt imagine causing.

In my opinion, this whole thing has been a PR nightmare. If Nintendo would actually bother to properly communicate things, I don't think the backlash and paranoia about censorship would be nearly as severe.

I do indeed realize that, but it seems as though you mean to insinuate that how a game or mechanic is received overseas is meaningless to the progression of a series, which is false in an increasingly-global society. Also, ad hominem attacks don't help your case. You're saying that it's "childish" of me not to want such salacious content in a series I've loved since childhood; I would argue that it was juvenile of Intelligent Systems to include it in the first place.

I'm not even really sure what you're trying to argue here. That just because "There's nothing I can do about it" means I should just shut up about it and take it? There have been many people here talking about "voting with their wallets", so to speak, against the removal of skinshipping. Sad as some may find it, in situations like this, money talks, and therefore the consumers do, in fact, have a say in what creators end up putting out, or at least what they're able to have get professionally-published. Forgive me, but I'm not going to waste my own "vote" promoting somebody else's principles. I personally abhor the idea of Fire Emblem becoming a hentai series, so I'm going to use my "vote"- however little it means by itself- to push the series away from becoming that.

"I don't like it, so nobody else should have it either!" What's so much worse about that than, "I want it, so everybody else should have to put up with their favorite series gradually becoming porn!"? Either way, it's one part of the fanbase getting what they want at another part's expense. And, as you yourself said, it's still in the Japanese version, so if being able to rub people's faces is something you really want that badly, you can always just buy and play the Japanese version of the game. Or look up R18 interactive Flash games. Those'll let you rub more than just faces.

In regards to being happy about the removal of a feature, think of it this way. Sometimes, trees will grow in ways that start to make them dangerous for nearby structures, such as becoming very lopsided and more likely to fall over, or simply having hanging branches getting in the way of things. In instances like these, the troublesome branches are trimmed off to prevent the tree from causing trouble further down the line. You may be against cutting branches off of trees "on principle", but that doesn't mean that cutting those branches off isn't almost entirely upside; the risk of the tree falling on people is gone, and the once-lopsided tree now gets to continue growing in that spot rather than falling down- likely snapping itself apart in the process- and being chopped up and removed entirely. As for censorship being a slippery slope, I would argue that what they're doing with making the games lewder is a slippery slope, as well. If it's a choice between two slippery slopes, then what's wrong with picking the one I personally prefer?

Also, I'd like to remind you that subtracting a negative number actually increases the base number's value.

Finally, you... are aware that you neither have nor deserve a say in other people's feelings, right? Disapprove of them all you want, but they're just as entitled to their own feelings as you are to yours.

And, if I've told people how they should feel about this recent development myself, then please tell me where so I can go back and amend it, since that was never my intention. I'm simply expressing my own feelings and the reason I feel the way I do.

EDIT: Oops I forgot a thing.

Since when is it "cowardice" to decide that something you did was in fact a bad idea and then try to fix the mistake? Pressing forward without being conscious of your mistakes or doing your best to repair the damage is carelessness and idiocy, not courage.

Just to lend an outsider's perspective on the post you replied to, but I didn't take it to mean that the poster thought that you had "childish eyes." To me, it came off as though they were criticizing Nintendo for censoring their product because evidently, they view the Western audience as children who cannot possibly handle the idea of physical contact between people without their innocence being destroyed. I do think it was an insult, but not one directed at you. Then again, I may be completely off base.

As for the rest of your comments, I don't really think that anyone who wanted the skinship thing to be in the final product wants Fire Emblem to become a hentai series, and I think the leap of rubbing someone's head to full blown porn is about as sound as assuming that the series will eventually allow you to slowly torture and dismember people because the game has violence as its central mechanic. Sure, there is some risqué dialogue in those skinship videos, but there's been risqué elements throughout the series, and I don't think it ever became something that would be considered to be for adults only.

They did mentioned early in the thread that they had just put it in private...which is basically a bit like the same of removing it...except not really.

-----

True...but if the content had not been added in the first place it wouldn't have changed anything...people would have still found reasons to complain.

Had they (Nintendo and Team Whatits) put their foot down when they had the chance to, people wouldn't have cried 'censorship', which while fair, makes me wonder why everyone is up and arms with a feature, that at best, would get boring after a few hours. I mean, the Pokemon Aime had more things to do than just petting your Pokemon...

Unless...they are planning to replace that minigame with hitting balls of yarn and collecting berries?

Like I said earlier, I'm bothered by the removal despite not really being into the feature and being someone who would have campaigned against it if I had been part of the development team. The time for removing it was during production in my opinion, and so they missed the boat and the (skin)ship has sailed, and I don't think torpedoing it now does them any good, especially if they're going to be secretive about their reasoning behind including it in one region and not another as well as what they're replacing the content with. It just fuels speculation, suspicion, and distrust. I don't think there's anything they can say that would quell everybody, but I don't think their refusal to properly engage people pleases anybody.

[Dualazi]

@ Tryhard: Thank you for being one of the few who understand the danger of censorship, as well as being understanding enough to want a feature included that you yourself might not enjoy. Serenes is one of the better online communities as far as civility goes, but even here there have been a few people dancing a little too merrily at the expense of others, in my opinion. Sadly I also share your viewpoint that while some like me will likely not be purchasing the game as we currently estimate it to be, it'll probably still be a rousing success financially.

I'm gonna echo other people's sentiments here as well that I highly doubt FE would ever go full porn, or even come close. I think if anything it'd branch into other ways to develop your characters like costumes or other interactables, which I'm sure would still illicit ire from some subsection of the fanbase.

My only real hope at this point is to bank on Nintendo being lazy and leaving the game mode on the cartridge so that modders/the translation team can unlock it somehow. If not, I'll have to do some serious reading on how to use CFW and all that jazz, because this is looking like an ugly localization at the moment.

[Tryhard]

They did mentioned early in the thread that they had just put it in private...which is basically a bit like the same of removing it...except not really.

Had they (Nintendo and Team Whatits) put their foot down when they had the chance to, people wouldn't have cried 'censorship', which while fair, makes me wonder why everyone is up and arms with a feature, that at best, would get boring after a few hours. I mean, the Pokemon Aime had more things to do than just petting your Pokemon...

That's true, it was made private. I don't see it coming back anytime soon, so I think it's the same as removing it, but who knows.

I doubt people are that incensed over the actual feature: I'm sure to most it would have been exactly as you said, something that got boring after a few hours. I have to assume that most would be, like me, against the principle of denying content in localization. Even if they didn't actually like it. Still, I'm sure (and I've seen some at least) that people would have also looked forward to trying it for funsies.

To reiterate the topic title: Is it that big of a thing? Not really, unless you were either looking forward to it or are against the censorship principle. If not, you'll probably enjoy the game regardless, and I have no problem with that, but please don't use arguments that seek to insult people who were actually looking forward to it. To be happy at its removal is just absolutely selfish in my opinion.

I disagree with their decision to remove it, but can tolerate especially if it was the original developer's intention. Unfortunately, it rarely is. Either someone in charge of localization had a problem with it, or a hostile environment in terms of the reaction to the original announcement may have influenced the decision. But we can't know for sure what actually happened behind closed doors. I think a developer should be allowed to include controversial content at their own discretion without fear of it being whitewashed or panned for being racist/sexist/disgusting/whatever else. Like I said earlier in the topic, I was more annoyed by Nintendo's handling of the situation more so than the actual decision even if I disagree with it.

For example, I disliked much of the focus shift that occurred when Awakening came out, but I also fully support the developer's decision to go that path, I just didn't like it personally, and I don't dislike anyone who is a fan of Awakening. And hey, it seems to have done well for them. Another: I don't like the concept of Pheonix mode. But it's not something I would ever use (if I was getting the game, of course. I was already planning to not get the game before this, just so you know.), and it won't affect me, so I don't actually have a problem with other people using it. I wouldn't ever want it removed for the localization process.

Can't claim this is a good localization at all, especially if claims of no dual audio are correct.

In my opinion, this whole thing has been a PR nightmare. If Nintendo would actually bother to properly communicate things, I don't think the backlash and paranoia about censorship would be nearly as severe.

Just to lend an outsider's perspective on the post you replied to, but I didn't take it to mean that the poster thought that you had "childish eyes." To me, it came off as though they were criticizing Nintendo for censoring their product because evidently, they view the Western audience as children who cannot possibly handle the idea of physical contact between people without their innocence being destroyed. I do think it was an insult, but not one directed at you. Then again, I may be completely off base.

Their PR has been lacking in many things, and this is just one of those times unfortunately.

You're correct, but I understand why anyone would take that poorly, so I apologize. I'm just a little steamed at Nintendo, not so much for their decision but because of their poor PR reaction and handling.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Tryhard

[Jave]

People say "Nintendo should get the message that we don't want these features in our games", but the reality of the situation is that nobody in the West was able to properly judge the feature in question. Skinship got removed before release, so it's not like any feedback given from western players is in any way significant.

[Time the Crestfallen]

Holy wall of text Batman! Seriously, I could copy-paste a University Thesis about Censorship into this thread and it still wouldn't be as long as this page...

Edited February 1, 2016 by Phillius

[Topaz Light]

My only real hope at this point is to bank on Nintendo being lazy and leaving the game mode on the cartridge so that modders/the translation team can unlock it somehow.

It almost certainly will still be on the ROM; as far as I'm aware, it's pretty rare for game developers to fully remove things during localization. More often, what they do is just disable the player's access to it, while the coding for the dummied features remains on the ROM, more or less fully-functional. I'm not sure how the game would behave if you reenabled it via hacking and then tried to play it with English audio (assuming the game has dual audio), but it should work just fine, barring any issues resulting from that. I'd be surprised if it was well and truly removed from the program itself, honestly.

I don't really think it's likely, but I do hope that it's being replaced with something else. I would rather have something else in there than nothing, but honestly, try as I might, I just can't bring myself to be upset about the feature being removed. It may sound childish, but even just having a feature like that in the game made me a bit uncomfortable. I personally will enjoy the game more without the feature present than with it, and I'm not particularly inclined to boycott the game or wish commercial failure upon it because of this.

I understand the worries about censorship, but I strongly doubt that the reason it was removed was that they thought Americans "couldn't handle it" or "didn't deserve the right to see it". They probably felt that the feature would be offputting to many and would be met with controversy and criticism much more than praise, and therefore elected to remove it to avoid that. At least, that's my assessment of the situation.

I would be more perturbed if it was something significant to the story or gameplay that was being removed, but since it's just a dumb minigame, I can't bring myself to be all that upset. The level of consequence of this removal to the overall game experience isn't a whole lot different from minor bits of side content that get inadvertently dummied out when the promotional events, other games, or DLC that allow access to them never make it outside of the country of origin. I guess in this case the removal was a deliberate decision rather than something incidental due to doing things in a low-effort way, but I still don't see it as that big a deal, personally. I see where people are coming from, I suppose, and their points are fair ones, but I can't honestly say that I feel the same way, or that I'm going to boycott the game because of it.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Topaz Light

[Xaos Steel Wing]

I don't really think it's likely, but I do hope that it's being replaced with something else. I would rather have something else in there than nothing, but honestly, try as I might, I just can't bring myself to be upset about the feature being removed. It may sound childish, but even just having a feature like that in the game made me a bit uncomfortable. I personally will enjoy the game more without the feature present than with it, and I'm not particularly inclined to boycott the game or wish commercial failure upon it because of this.

I understand the worries about censorship, but I strongly doubt that the reason it was removed was that they thought Americans "couldn't handle it" or "didn't deserve the right to see it". They probably felt that the feature would be offputting to many and would be met with controversy and criticism much more than praise, and therefore elected to remove it to avoid that. At least, that's my assessment of the situation.

I would be more perturbed if it was something significant to the story or gameplay that was being removed, but since it's just a dumb minigame, I can't bring myself to be all that upset. The level of consequence of this removal to the overall game experience isn't a whole lot different from minor bits of side content that get inadvertently dummied out when the promotional events, other games, or DLC that allow access to them never make it outside of the country of origin. I guess in this case the removal was a deliberate decision rather than something incidental due to doing things in a low-effort way, but I still don't see it as that big a deal, personally. I see where people are coming from, I suppose, and their points are fair ones, but I can't honestly say that I feel the same way, or that I'm going to boycott the game because of it.

It's fair enough if someone doesn't care for the feature and doesn't care if it was removed or not.

The bigger issue, and this goes to the second paragraph quoted, is this attitude of some people that don't just not like a feature (that's fine) but go so far as wanting it removed for everyone because they don't like it (that's not fine). I don't mean to put words in anyone's mouth here, but I have seen several such reactions on other sites. That is censorship, removing content because a small but very vocal minority might be offended by it's presence. It's already there in the Japanese game, we're not deciding about whether it should be made for the original game to begin with.

Why should some taking offence at a completely optional, non gameplay feature require it being removed for everyone else who might enjoy it? It's as simple as not using the feature, and it's as if it wasn't there for them. It was there in the original game, it was meant to be a part of the game as originally released. Those who don't like it can simply not click that option if it's kept in, and it's as if it was never there, but those who want it have no way of getting it if it's removed - short of hacking the game, if that will even be possible.

It is a minor feature, but it's still content being removed that some might have really enjoyed. Censorship and removal of content is dangerous, no matter how large or how small.

I'm not trying to convince anyone that they should be upset about it, or that it should be a dealbreaker for them, if they don't like the feature that's okay - but I do want people to see how silly it was to remove the feature for everyone the way they did, and then try to sweep it under the rug. It remains to be seen whether there is a proper replacement, which would make it not as bad, but if there isn't, it is absolutely unacceptable in my opinion, to remove content in such a manner and for such reasons.

PS: I'm rather new to Serenes but I appreciate that we can have these reasonable discussions and eventually come to understand each other even if we have very different views. I also enjoy debates on what really are rather trivial issues as you can see.

Edited February 1, 2016 by XaosLogos

[Torchick11]

My only problem with it being removed is that the models are going to go unused in the NA/EU release, these models were honestly really great. I honestly hope they keep that extra dialogue that you get from the petting "minigame" because it just adds flavour to the characters.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

My only problem with it being removed is that the models are going to go unused in the NA/EU release, these models were honestly really great. I honestly hope they keep that extra dialogue that you get from the petting "minigame" because it just adds flavour to the characters.

"Mmm <3"

"Ahhh <3"

"I love you..."

Don't we hear some of this stuff in supports already?

[Torchick11]

"Mmm <3"

"Ahhh <3"

"I love you..."

Don't we hear some of this stuff in supports already?

I meant the other stuff. Its kind of spoilery so I can't go into much detail.

[Respite&Nepenthe]

I've already mourned the loss of the skinship feature. Now I just want confirmation that there is indeed some form of a replacement that utilizes the 2D models and voices.

Edited February 1, 2016 by Respite&Nepenthe

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I've already mourned the loss of the skinship feature. Now I just want confirmation that there is indeed some form of a replacement that utilizes the 2D models and voices.

Their probably has to be a replacement. The original feature contained rewards, like rare items and support bonuses. This in my one reason to use it if any on harder difficulties on Nohr. It was also said by a few people who complained about the feature removal.

[wallhadrian]

The only reason I'm mad about it confirmed getting removed THIS LATE is that, among other things I learned I didn't like about the localization beforehand, the removal of skinship put the nail in the coffin. I repeat: skinship wasn't the ONLY reason. I had others too, but I don't want to start an argument on those. Making me wait a fucking YEAR when I could have gotten it earlier.

You can ask 'why didn't you just get the Japanese version when it came out' but at the time I could live with the two or three things that were confirmed to change, which include the weird name changes and my suspicion that dual audio wouldn't be in (that is now being debating about). That combined with the fact that I still need to occasionally look up kanji (seriously, no yomigana and all), making it a hassle, and talking about it with friends will be difficult if I don't know the English names, persuaded me to stick with the English version. But now that's not the case.

It's just...thanks for making me wait this long. They should have just been up front about it and now I'm FOR SURE only going to buy the Japanese versions in the future.

Edited February 1, 2016 by PopteenPrincess

[Topaz Light]

My only problem with it being removed is that the models are going to go unused in the NA/EU release, these models were honestly really great. I honestly hope they keep that extra dialogue that you get from the petting "minigame" because it just adds flavour to the characters.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but aren't those same models used for the confession sequences as well?