Is Fates skinship removal that big of thing?

[Xaos Steel Wing]

It sounds like you took offense at my answer. . .please explain why. Other than the healer thing (which was a reference to FE1) and the correction of a factual error you made, I didn't see what warranted it.

You asked what I was okay with cutting out, and I gave an answer. All it means is that it's stuff I don't want to be taken out. . .it doesn't mean that I don't want change, either. See my favorite game? Shadow Dragon? Guess what that introduced?

I can learn how to live without certain things, like optional content. That's why I'm okay with a lot of things being cut - as long as I can play the game and remember why I love Fire Emblem, I'll be happy.

No offense taken, I apologize if it came off that way.

It seems that there are different things that we enjoy about Fire Emblem, we have very different visions for what we want Fire Emblem to be, and probably have very different views on game design in general. Your favorite game is Shadow Dragon, it is by far my least favorite, that actually explains a lot.

One of my biggest complaints about Shadow Dragon was the lack of characterization and forgettable story. As you can see, the reason I fell in love with the FE series was not just the SRPG gameplay, but the stories and characters... so I'm all for features that add more to that aspect of the game, even if they don't actually do anything for the gameplay, and that's part of why I am so upset at the localization changes, aside from the whole censorship and less content for same price issue, which have more to do with principle.

Generally, all things equal, I prefer to have more features and more options. Even if some of them I will likely never use.

We just appear to have polar opposite opinions it seems, that's all, and that's okay. I enjoy a reasonable debate and discussion from time to time, especially if it is about rather trivial things.

Edited January 31, 2016 by XaosLogos

[PuffPuff]

Meh, the skinship removal isn't a big deal to me. I don't want to get awkward looks from other people while I'm playing on the bus, so I'm okay whether or not skinship actually stays.

For all we know.

It could not be included due to not wanting to fund to it, or time constraints.

No offense taken, I apologize if it came off that way.

It seems that there are different things that we enjoy about Fire Emblem, we have very different visions for what we want Fire Emblem to be, and probably have very different views on game design in general. Your favorite game is Shadow Dragon, it is by far my least favorite, that actually explains a lot.

One of my biggest complaints about Shadow Dragon was the lack of characterization and forgettable story. As you can see, the reason I fell in love with the FE series was not just the SRPG gameplay, but the stories and characters... so I'm all for features that add more to that aspect of the game, even if they don't actually do anything for the gameplay, and that's part of why I am so upset at the localization changes, aside from the whole censorship and less content for same price issue, which have more to do with principle.

Generally, all things equal, I prefer to have more features and more options. Even if some of them I will likely never use.

We just appear to have polar opposite opinions it seems, that's all, and that's okay. I enjoy a reasonable debate and discussion from time to time, especially if it is about rather trivial things.

Is why that they've made hidden convos.

Like Caeda could have one with Ogma in Ch2.

Linde could have one with Merric in Ch11.

Not that these convos really told all that much though.

Despite the game starting it all...they had to keep with that tradition where talking to other characters didn't yet exist.

[eclipse]

No offense taken, I apologize if it came off that way.

It seems that there are different things that we enjoy about Fire Emblem, we have very different visions for what we want Fire Emblem to be, and probably have very different views on game design in general. Your favorite game is Shadow Dragon, it is by far my least favorite, that actually explains a lot.

One of my biggest complaints about Shadow Dragon was the lack of characterization and forgettable story. As you can see, the reason I fell in love with the FE series was not just the SRPG gameplay, but the stories and characters... so I'm all for features that add more to that aspect of the game, even if they don't actually do anything for the gameplay, and that's part of why I am so upset at the localization changes, aside from the whole censorship and less content for same price issue, which have more to do with principle.

Generally, all things equal, I prefer to have more features and more options. Even if some of them I will likely never use.

We just appear to have polar opposite opinions it seems, that's all, and that's okay. I enjoy a reasonable debate and discussion from time to time, especially if it is about rather trivial things.

And now comes the second half - I'm perfectly fine with the fact that we've got two completely different views on the matter. Things would be terribly boring if everyone had my mindset~!

Shadow Dragon was a hell of a case, because the characters DO get some personality traits (enough for me to write some really silly stories), and the story stays focused on Marth instead of some self-insert. It gives me the freedom to elaborate on things like backstories, which is something that's a lot harder to do with, say, Awakening (where so many things are defined, like a good chunk of Lon'qu's past or Cordelia's many talents).

Even if I don't need a lot of optional features, it doesn't mean I want them gone! If it makes others happy, then why not? As long as it's something that I can avoid without having to jump through hoops (an example of something that was not fun and mandatory was RD's constantly rotating parties).

[Xaos Steel Wing]

And now comes the second half - I'm perfectly fine with the fact that we've got two completely different views on the matter. Things would be terribly boring if everyone had my mindset~!

Shadow Dragon was a hell of a case, because the characters DO get some personality traits (enough for me to write some really silly stories), and the story stays focused on Marth instead of some self-insert. It gives me the freedom to elaborate on things like backstories, which is something that's a lot harder to do with, say, Awakening (where so many things are defined, like a good chunk of Lon'qu's past or Cordelia's many talents).

Even if I don't need a lot of optional features, it doesn't mean I want them gone! If it makes others happy, then why not? As long as it's something that I can avoid without having to jump through hoops (an example of something that was not fun and mandatory was RD's constantly rotating parties).

Shadow Dragon might not be as bad as I remember it to be. Someone once posted about writing a Shadow Dragon novelization, I challenged them on the same issue, and they came up with some really good moments from the story, made me see something I didn't see before (it also shows they knew their source material, so that's great if they ever decide to write that, I'll gladly read it). Still, Shadow Dragon's story was utterly forgettable and the characters were not memorable, for me at least; 5 years after I played every other FE game I could probably name the entire cast by heart, but for Shadow Dragon I could not name more than about 5 characters. It felt archaic and uninteresting to me as a whole. I think that's largely not so much thanks to the gameplay (though I have my gripes with that too) but due to the lack of an interesting story and characters.

I suppose the difference is that to me, the core of Fire Emblem is just as much in its stories and characters as it is in the gameplay, and if that aspect was ruined, no matter how good the gameplay, I would likely not enjoy such a game. I do like strategy games, back in the golden era of RTS games I was huge into competetive online RTS (even though that is a different kind of strategy), but it's not just the SRPG gameplay that makes FE special, it's the flavour surrounding it.

Skinshipping adds to the character element of the game; it's not so much about the minigame itself but about the combination of the Live2D artwork, voice acting, and dialogue (some of which does provide additional information and development for characters, other not so much). To me, the characters are a core element of Fire Emblem, just as much as the gameplay is, so taking that away does chip away at a central part of the game that was present in the original Japanese release. Even if it's minor, even if it's optional, it takes away from the game as it was meant to be. We can discuss about whether the feature should have been different to begin with, but it is what it is in the Japanese version. I can only hope that the Western release has a suitable replacement that contains the Live2D models and the more interesting dialogue, at the least.

Your third paragraph - see, we're not all that far apart. I'm glad we could understand each other after all :)

Edited January 31, 2016 by XaosLogos

[saisymbolic]

Personally, the only reason I would want skinship in is so that I can hear Takehito Koyasu whisper lovingly into my left ear.

No touching is required. In fact, touching breaks the moment. Just sweet whispers are needed.

On a serious note, honestly, I'm neutral to the whole thing. At first, I was very upset and started spouting some crap about getting my hands on the Japanese version to make myself feel better. Then, after cooling down, I accepted the change with little more than a shrug and plans to download the game on Eshop a couple days after launch as I did with Awakening.

This whole debacle was tiring. My only hopes is that feature is still in--minus the touching--and that dual audio is in, as there are now rumors that it as well is out. Even if it is, I will buy the games as I am a fan of FE and I want to support it, in futile hopes the creators will learn from their mistakes and create a better product next time.

Now, excuse me while I attempt to find a way to put the skinship audio onto my Ipod so that I can listen to DIO Zero whisper into my ear as I sleep at night.

[REL]

Howdy!

As someone's whose initial reaction to the whole skinship/petting mini game was "...Weird," I'm sad to see the feature gone. Not because I was super into it, though I became a little more interested in it after seeing what it looked like in motion and seeing the animation, but because it sucks to know that features that were completed were seemingly arbitrarily excised from the product in other regions. I didn't really ever want this feature, and had I been on the development staff, would have probably campaigned against it, both on the grounds that it seems like a weird feature in general, and also because it doesn't particularly seem to fit into a Fire Emblem game in the same way that say, a train simulator would seem out of place in Fire Emblem Fates. But it was approved, developed, and released, and at that point I think the (skin)ship has sailed. If it makes it to Port Positive Reception, awesome. If it hits an iceberg and sinks, now you know. But sending out a submarine to scuttle it after you've launched it but before anything has gone wrong, doesn't strike me as the way to go. If nothing else, it seems to be a gross waste of resources. Sure, those resources could have almost certainly been better used elsewhere, but you've already invested them into this, so why remove it now? It's not like doing so is going to yield a gain on those investments.

Now, I'm not going to call this censorship, since it's Nintendo itself electing to do it as publisher, which I define as editing (or self-censorship if you want to throw around the c word), even when outside forces are calling for it to be edited (as they have no power to actually force the change), but I don't like it when finished products are re-edited for other markets. It's one thing when future versions get extra material added in (as is often the case with games like Final Fantasy and Kingdom Hearts), but the removal of content as a general rule is displeasing to me. And I don't see how it was "necessary" as other people who applaud the removal do. It's a side feature that to my knowledge, was completely optional, so it was by no means necessary to remove it for the sake of say, narrative flow. Moreover, while an odd feature, it seemed rather tame. Rubbing someone's head or touching their cheek doesn't strike me as particularly inappropriate in the West, and I don't think it was to anyone's benefit that such features were removed. Removing this because it was too risque or inappropriate for Western audiences seems disingenuous.

Now for me, this isn't a deal breaker, but it is disappointing that a feature I don't see anything wrong with is getting removed for what seem like arbitrary reasons.

Silver lining: The people who are actually going to cancel their preorders of the Special Edition will make it easier for me to get my hands on a copy of it. :D

[Duff Ostrich]

I happen to believe this is a big deal, in that it was a wonderful decision on the part of NoA! I still have my reservations about Fates but at least this creepy worthless feature won't be a part of it. Maintaining some level of respectability is, I'd contend, important for the health of the franchise. At the very least it is important for ensuring that I remain a fan of the series.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Duff Ostrich

[solrocknroll]

I still want skinshipping back. It felt personal and the lines they say really make the characters feel whole.

I don't ever care if other people wouldn't buy the game because skinshipping is in it. They need to get thicker skin and stop being bothered by a harmless feature.

I'm just glad Camilla didn't get censored. I wouldn't put it past some people to be happy to see her beautiful design censored.

[Nymphia]

I still want skinshipping back. It felt personal and the lines they say really make the characters feel whole.

I don't ever care if other people wouldn't buy the game because skinshipping is in it. They need to get thicker skin and stop being bothered by a harmless feature.

I'm just glad Camilla didn't get censored. I wouldn't put it past some people to be happy to see her beautiful design censored.

^ Completely agree with this. Some of the skinship dialogue seemed to give insight on the characters personality and background. I'm really hoping they still left the dialogue in the game even without the rubbing feature. :x

[Jave]

Honestly, I'm not bothered by those who are not buying the game due to the loss of a feature. I can certainly respect someone not buying something out of principle, and it's a lot more common than you think (I could make a huge list of movies and TV Shows that are release edited on DVD/Blu-Ray and fans would flat-out refuse to buy them out of principle).

I'm more bothered by the "Buy it anyway, it's no big deal" or "Eh, you could have enjoyed it, but your loss" comments. The latter in particular feels like guilt-tripping, like calling someone on the phone from a party and gloating about "Hey, I'm having a great time, too bad you couldn't come!".

To me the whole thing is not a deal-breaker, but I can respect those who don't want to buy the game on those terms. In fact, I applaud those who stick to their guns and choose to speak with their wallet. Even in this era it's still the most effective way of voicing your opinion.

[Titamon]

Thank goodness this trash was taken out of the western release.

If only they could do the same for Camilla and CharlTHOTe.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Titamon

[Laenitheus]

If it's really axed in the NA version, then that's disappointing. FE Fates players of NA should be offended, because Nintendo of America didn't think that the market there has the mental capacity to decide whether it is acceptable or not for themselves. So they went ahead and made the decision for the majority.

There is cultural differences indeed. I don't really believe that Americans are a bunch of conservatives, it is so funny because I think Japanese people are probably more conservative and more polite in real life, and yet they keep making all these ridiculus games. Really, no offense being made here.

These add ons are really just meant to be enjoyed and is part of the original design.

It's that quirk that make Fates a unique FE game, and sets it apart from the others. You may or may not want that feature but most people, want it. Otherwise, there wouldn't be hundred of threads online over the disappointment of it being "removed".

I'm neither in one of the countries where it is releasing but because we are an English speaking nation, we automatically get the NA version.

But I already have the Japanese version, so I'll save myself the money and just stick with it.

[maybe]

Go fish only, to remove implications of gambling.

images are going through my head of various characters saying "go fish" in strangely sexy ways

[Tryhard]

Honestly, I'm not bothered by those who are not buying the game due to the loss of a feature. I can certainly respect someone not buying something out of principle, and it's a lot more common than you think (I could make a huge list of movies and TV Shows that are release edited on DVD/Blu-Ray and fans would flat-out refuse to buy them out of principle).

I'm more bothered by the "Buy it anyway, it's no big deal" or "Eh, you could have enjoyed it, but your loss" comments. The latter in particular feels like guilt-tripping, like calling someone on the phone from a party and gloating about "Hey, I'm having a great time, too bad you couldn't come!".

To me the whole thing is not a deal-breaker, but I can respect those who don't want to buy the game on those terms. In fact, I applaud those who stick to their guns and choose to speak with their wallet. Even in this era it's still the most effective way of voicing your opinion.

People are going to buy it no matter what. They don't care about the fact that they are getting less and less, and never will. I actually find that more worrying than some silly feature.

It is great to see that some people want to remain self-righteous about what other people have the choice to partake in, he said sarcastically.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Tryhard

[The DanMan]

Thank goodness this trash was taken out of the western release.

If only they could do the same for Camilla and CharlTHOTe.

Charlotte's actually pretty good, character wise.

If it's really axed in the NA version, then that's disappointing. FE Fates players of NA should be offended, because Nintendo of America didn't think that the market there has the mental capacity to decide whether it is acceptable or not for themselves. So they went ahead and made the decision for the majority.

There is cultural differences indeed. I don't really believe that Americans are a bunch of conservatives, it is so funny because I think Japanese people are probably more conservative and more polite in real life, and yet they keep making all these ridiculus games. Really, no offense being made here.

These add ons are really just meant to be enjoyed and is part of the original design.

It's that quirk that make Fates a unique FE game, and sets it apart from the others. You may or may not want that feature but most people, want it. Otherwise, there wouldn't be hundred of threads online over the disappointment of it being "removed".

I'm neither in one of the countries where it is releasing but because we are an English speaking nation, we automatically get the NA version.

But I already have the Japanese version, so I'll save myself the money and just stick with it.

Considering all NOJ videos showing skinship have been made private and taking into account the massive internal debate over the feature in the first place, something tells me it's not a straightforward "bitch about NOA" situation.

[Great Geargia Gateway]

NA's offended, JP's offended, the creators are offended, you're offended, I'm offended, everyone is offended.

I'm just gonna go to Winchester, have a pint, and wait for all this to blow over. :|

[capmalachi]

They don't care about the fact that they are getting less and less, and never will. I actually find that more worrying than some silly feature.

I'm genuinely disappointed in how many people are just so happy to let the gaming industry get away with removing content during localisation. "It happens all the time anyway" is not a reason to just deal with it and buy the game anyway, it's a reason to be even more upset.

Edited January 31, 2016 by capmalachi

[REL]

I'm genuinely disappointed in how many people are just so happy to let the gaming industry get away with removing content during localisation. "It happens all the time anyway" is not a reason to just deal with it and buy the game anyway, it's a reason to be even more upset.

"Normality breeds apathy" as the saying goes. Letting it slide one time made it easier to do it the next time, and so on.

Granted, not being able to poke Takumi and Jakob in the eyes for being silly heads isn't exactly a hill I'm willing to die on, and the removal of the feature isn't enough to keep me from the new game if I can get the special edition, but I think it is a stupid call exacerbated with Nintendo's poor handling of the situation.

Hopefully, this whole fiasco will help motivate Nintendo to actually talk to people and give details about things like this, rather than just have the people in call centers go "I don't have anything to tell you."

[Together We Ride]

I'm genuinely disappointed in how many people are just so happy to let the gaming industry get away with removing content during localisation. "It happens all the time anyway" is not a reason to just deal with it and buy the game anyway, it's a reason to be even more upset.

Some people never wanted it in in the first place. Are you saying that the people who were disappointed in it's inclusion to begin with should be furious that they actually got what they wanted?

Look, I get it; localization can be a bad process. Especially when it deals with censorship and content editing/removal. But when what was removed was a stain on a series in the eyes of some (and even in the eyes of some of the developers, it seems), I think those people have every right to be happy. Just as you have the right to loathe NoA for their decision...

[Tryhard]

Some people never wanted it in in the first place. Are you saying that the people who were disappointed in it's inclusion to begin with should be furious that they actually got what they wanted?

I didn't want it in the first place. I'm annoyed at it being changed for the localization. Not because I would have wanted it to be in, but on the principle of it being changed. This is not a insane concept, in my opinion.

Edited January 31, 2016 by Tryhard

[capmalachi]

Some people never wanted it in in the first place. Are you saying that the people who were disappointed in it's inclusion to begin with should be furious that they actually got what they wanted?

You know what? Yes, I am saying that.

I'm getting kind of tired of saying this, but fine, I'll say it again. People who didn't want to use this feature, or any other, never had to. So yes, while they shouldn't be as upset about it as the people who actually were looking forward to it, everyone should be upset about the removal of content in the process of localisation.

We're not talking about a feature that wasn't well liked and so didn't make it in to the next game in the series, we're talking about something that was already there and was then removed for non-japanese players.

This is not some moral victory, it's plain and simply the removal of an optional feature in the game, resulting in the people who wanted it losing out, and people who didn't want it gaining nothing.

Edited January 31, 2016 by capmalachi

[Naziro]

Oh Gods I hope I didn't start a war...

[Duff Ostrich]

I'm only happy with the removal of content when the content being removed is something as awful as face rubbing. I don't want Fire Emblem to be Agarest War and I don't want it to be Gal Gun. Feel free to look up Gal Gun if you don't know what I mean.

A lot of longtime fans tend to be particularly ornery about this, but try to understand where we're coming from. Fire Emblem didn't used to be a date sim. It didn't used to have 50%+ of its characters designed to appeal to particular fetishes. It didn't used to be so incomprehensibly anime about everything. And it sure as hell didn't used to have petting minigames I mean come on. How can people say that this stuff shouldn't affect our enjoyment of the final product? We're being inundated with near constant pandering. It makes a real difference!

I don't like to be the guy to rain on the parades of others, and I understand that some are irked when localizations remove stuff. I'll happily roll me eyes along with everyone else with regard to the clumsy attempt to cover up Tharja's bikini body (though I always thought that was kinda funny for being so blatant), but this is a very different thing. The petting was gross, and weird, and it discredits the series. We really are better off without it.

[shiningpikablu252]

Thank goodness this trash was taken out of the western release.

Amen. It was a scrappy mechanic back when it was called Pokémon Amie, and it pretty much deserved to go die in a fire then...

[Great Geargia Gateway]

I'm only happy with the removal of content when the content being removed is something as awful as face rubbing. I don't want Fire Emblem to be Agarest War and I don't want it to be Gal Gun. Feel free to look up Gal Gun if you don't know what I mean.

NOOOOOPPPPEE!!

I can't believe I fell for that bait.

Oh Gods I hope I didn't start a war...

There was a war since Awakening.

Speaking of Awakening. How quick did that Marriage Support implemented from Awakening turn into core gameplay? Is it optional now, that the game is based around it? A lot of Nohr players apparently beg to differ.