So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[semolinaro]

He's incompetent too. So is Azura.

Nothing bars her from revealing the truth on any of the routes but bad writing. That and in Birthright she gives the orb to Leo who learns the truth and unlike Azura it's never said that he breaks the darn thing.

I assume he didn't as Leo is said to be the most powerful and skilled magic user currently alive.

Another strange thing about that is that Leo saw the truth in the orb but didn't bother to join you in taking down slime/dragon dad, nor did he tell Xander and the others? It could have saved Xander and Elise's lives had he just told them the truth! There was no legitimate reason to keep that a secret, especially since they knew their father wasn't the man he used to be.

Also, why couldn't Corrin just tell the Hoshidan family that Garon is a monster and for the sakes of both their kingdoms he needs to sit on the throne? The Hoshidans could be reluctant and fight back after what you did to them, but in the end they could be convinced and aid you to getting to the throne. Lives could be saved. The secrets are so unnecessary, the main problem here is that Corrin is too afraid to communicate and that in turn is why he'll never reach his goal.

Edited March 4, 2016 by semolinaro

[maybe]

The first of several massacres you can't stop. I don't see how people enjoy a route where you accomplish almost nothing until end-game and up to that point is a series of failures.

this is one of my biggest problems with conquest's narrative

like, why even bother having an avatar main character if they never accomplish anything

although possibly my biggest problem with it is probably just the stupid "no one died!!!" after every chapter

like, no, I get that Corrin is god and can do anything he wants but that guy just took an axe to the face from a woman on a dragon

it's just not possible to go through battles that big and violent with no one dying

honestly, I would've really preferred it if Corrin wasn't completely reluctant to conquer Hoshido

i mean, the game is called Conquest, damn it, I wanna conquer shit, not complain about how I don't want to

maybe you could be trying to take over both kingdoms to restore peace to both or something

but i'd even take just being the asshole villains over "waa i don't wanna invade hoshido and kill all these people but i have to so that garon will stop killing people"

[Karis]

Not gonna lie, I started really hating Corrin during Conquest. Their attitude was just so... UGH! And the whole Garon truth thing made it so much worse.

Okay, the Garon we see is a slime monster thing who is clearly not human. But instead of telling our siblings, we're just going to wait until we can get definite proof through a CHAIR to show them! You know, despite the fact that Xander clearly states he was conflicted about Garon's sudden change in personality, but will still threaten Corrin that he'll kill them if they're lying about Garon not being Garon. Not saying it's Xander's fault, he's just got very bad writers... okay, and maybe it's his fault too. Blame both.

And we also know that Azura can cause Garon pain through her songs, yet she'll never do it again despite that it would clearly indicate that "hey something's off about Garon". But we'll just write it off as "that song was a curse directed at Garon!". Corrin's just far too "innocent" throughout Conquest to be real.

[semolinaro]

Not gonna lie, I started really hating Corrin during Conquest. Their attitude was just so... UGH! And the whole Garon truth thing made it so much worse.

Okay, the Garon we see is a slime monster thing who is clearly not human. But instead of telling our siblings, we're just going to wait until we can get definite proof through a CHAIR to show them! You know, despite the fact that Xander clearly states he was conflicted about Garon's sudden change in personality, but will still threaten Corrin that he'll kill them if they're lying about Garon not being Garon. Not saying it's Xander's fault, he's just got very bad writers... okay, and maybe it's his fault too. Blame both.

And we also know that Azura can cause Garon pain through her songs, yet she'll never do it again despite that it would clearly indicate that "hey something's off about Garon". But we'll just write it off as "that song was a curse directed at Garon!". Corrin's just far too "innocent" throughout Conquest to be real.

This. Also, Xander's line right before they enter the throne room baffles me. After watching your ruthless father slaughter innocents and destroy a nation before your very eyes, you say that if Corrin lied about him being a monster when they enter the room, he'll have no choice but to kill him?? So much for sibling love. That moment made me lose a ton of respect for Xander (among many other moments as well). It's too bad too because his design is really unique but his character is nonsensical.

[Karis]

This. Also, Xander's line right before they enter the throne room baffles me. After watching your ruthless father slaughter innocents and destroy a nation before your very eyes, you say that if Corrin lied about him being a monster when they enter the room, he'll have no choice but to kill him?? So much for sibling love. That moment made me lose a ton of respect for Xander (among many other moments as well). It's too bad too because his design is really unique but his character is nonsensical.

And it's made worse when he goes "Yeah I totally knew something was off the whole time." That's a line some bratty kid uses when he doesn't want to admit he was wrong. I like Xander too, and will defend him at some parts, just... not this one.

[Nym]

Corrin is an idiot because of bad writers.

The thing about Corrin in Conquest is the fact that joining Nohr is actually very smart from Corrin.

At first, he joined Nohr because he didn't want to betray his family that he grown up with but without realize it until chapter 14, he killed 2 birds with one stone.

Since Leo makes kim realize that he can change Nohr's way of fighthing by plotting behind Garon's back, he was very happy to be in Nohr.

Until the whole ''Garon is a slime monster'' happened.

This is where I believe that the writers screwed up really hard.

[semolinaro]

Corrin is an idiot because of bad writers.

The thing about Corrin in Conquest is the fact that joining Nohr is actually very smart from Corrin.

At first, he joined Nohr because he didn't want to betray his family that he grown up with but without realize it until chapter 14, he killed 2 birds with one stone.

Since Leo makes kim realize that he can change Nohr's way of fighthing by plotting behind Garon's back, he was very happy to be in Nohr.

Until the whole ''Garon is a slime monster'' happened.

This is where I believe that the writers screwed up really hard.

I thought Corrin started out as a great character. He kinda reminded me of Robin, just trying to help out where he can while trying to figure out his own problems. But then the writers betrayed him by turning him into a whiny hypocrite who wants world peace without bloodshed and does nothing to come closer to that goal. Ahh it's so frustrating! Birthright Corrin was nowhere near the level of bad as Conquest Corrin.

[Namarid]

Corrin is an idiot because of bad writers.

The thing about Corrin in Conquest is the fact that joining Nohr is actually very smart from Corrin.

At first, he joined Nohr because he didn't want to betray his family that he grown up with but without realize it until chapter 14, he killed 2 birds with one stone.

Since Leo makes kim realize that he can change Nohr's way of fighthing by plotting behind Garon's back, he was very happy to be in Nohr.

Until the whole ''Garon is a slime monster'' happened.

This is where I believe that the writers screwed up really hard.

Chapter 14 should of been a turning point for corrin. He realises that he can do things behind garon's back and then should of taken steps to do this. Make the rest of the game about getting support to defeat garon, not invading hoshido over some dumb shit.

Maybe have chapters dedicated to assassinating the most needlessly cruel people in the army. Have soldiers in the army who are against garon ready to rebel when called upon. Would it of been so hard to have a dawn brigade scenario but with the royal siblings? These are all rushed ideas, but I think with enough polishing it would of been a lot better than what we got.

[Lucina's Husband]

Couldn't resist doing this in response to an earlier post! The parallels are just too good :)

Edited March 4, 2016 by Lucina's Husband

[Selena4Lyfe]

Someone get this guy a Nobel Prize for humor.

Aw shucks, BruceLee! You sure do know how to make someone feel appreciated!

Sadly, I've had eight hours of class today, which is quite a lot when the classes are given in your third language, so I'm beat and probably won't bring my usual vigor, but let's see here, Nohr chapter 16...

By that point, Corrin has already:

Confused Azura with all the other singers with bright teal hair that reach their legs (we've already covered that one).

Asked Camilla why Garon is a stupidpants after Hans starts murdering people en masse.

Told a Hoshidan general that they can't trade peace for one person's death which is straight up falls since that is literally the plot of Birthright, and it makes Conquest Corrin come across as the biggest hypocrite I've ever seen in gaming.

Technically gambled with Elise's life when fighting Ryouma - that might be an unpopular opinion or me misunderstanding something, so I'll just qualify that as half an argument.

And of course, the big one: immediately accepted Azura's nonsensical plan which involves the invasion of a peaceful nation - so much for not trading lives for peace.

You're about halfway through, and it'll just get stupider from here, and Corrin's hypocrisy, powerlessness and idiocy will just get more and more apparent..

Well, this is a bummer to hear. I was feeling iffy about her plan to forcefully break through Ryoma's forces in order to reach that village interior to help Elise, and I'd made my own topic regarding Nohr Chapter 14 where I'd theorized that the Nohr royal children (namely Camilla and Leo) had orchastrated an assassination attempt with Azura...unfortunately, according to at least one responder there, that isn't the case...and it would have been so easy to do - all the pieces were there... and I also dealt with how stupid it seemed for Corrin of all people to not recognize neither Azura's hair, slender body (even at a distance, those two things should've been noticable, especially when considering...) and her VOICE of all things.

But all this stupid between Corrin and Azura...Ugh, I hope Soliel isn't written too badly, since that's one of my primary motivations besides the gameplay that's eeping me still going along with the Nohr path with gusto...

Edited March 4, 2016 by Selena4Lyfe

[Abysswalker25]

Nah, Hans is an idiot who would charge into battle blindly despite the odds (and does so whenever he shows up as an ally) because he sees his troops as expendable. If it was Iago leading the reinforcements, you might be right. And Garon only spared the Ice Tribe because Corrin talked Kilma into surrendering after convincing him of their good intentions. There's little chance the Cheve rebels would agree to such a deal, if Scarlet's conversation with Corrin in Conquest 13 is any indication.

I can't speak for anyone else, but Cheve was pretty much the final confirmation for me that no, Corrin can't change anything in Nohr and is completely powerless in the context of the narrative. (And, thinking back on it now, that Nohrrin really isn't good at thinking about the consequences of their actions.)

I suppose, but what if Corrin spared them as well? That's what made the Ice Tribe listen in the first place. They tried to kill Corrin, but when he defeated them and showed mercy they listened, because they had no choice at that point.

Anyways I think this is simply a difference of opinion. I personally like Corrin as a character but not everyone would feel the same. It helps Cam Clarke is the voice actor.

[Water Mage]

I do like Corrin a lot, but in Birthright.

In Birthright, Corrin is much more active and actually makes a difference.

Corrin even talks backs to Garon.

I particulary like the moment in the Opera House, where Corrin is very sarcastic when talking to Garon.

A sharp contrast from Conquest!Corrin, who seems desperate for Garon's approval and acts like a frightened child when talking to him.

[Viberum]

Conquest Corrin keeps saying "I'm so sorry..."

Like it's been 20 chapters since I chose this path stop apologising for it!!

[Water Mage]

Conquest Corrin keeps saying "I'm so sorry..."

Like it's been 20 chapters since I chose this path stop apologising for it!!

It's funny how Conquest Corrin and Birthright Corrin are different.

Like you said Conquest Corrin keeps saying "I'm so sorry..." while Birthright Corrin keeps saying "I'm gonna kill Garon!"

Really, the contrast is quite schocking.

[Abysswalker25]

I do like Corrin a lot, but in Birthright.

In Birthright, Corrin is much more active and actually makes a difference.

Corrin even talks backs to Garon.

I particulary like the moment in the Opera House, where Corrin is very sarcastic when talking to Garon.

A sharp contrast from Conquest!Corrin, who seems desperate for Garon's approval and acts like a frightened child when talking to him.

Though I do agree I wish he had more backbone Conquest side..

Hes just hurting Nohr instead who are shown to have good people in it too, even though their king is an insane asshole that they have to take orders from.

Conquest Corrin keeps saying "I'm so sorry..."

Like it's been 20 chapters since I chose this path stop apologising for it!!

They were pretty heavily leaning to "Birthright is the correct path". I mean, the localization got rid of the "I should've joined Hoshido" thing at least.

It's funny how Conquest Corrin and Birthright Corrin are different.

Like you said Conquest Corrin keeps saying "I'm so sorry..." while Birthright Corrin keeps saying "I'm gonna kill Garon!"

Really, the contrast is quite schocking.

He sounds more bloodthirsty. Hes not pushing for peace, hes pushing for revenge.

[Ryas]

I've said this before, but a lot of the hate the story of Conquest gets is because it makes the player feel like shit about what they're doing. You're not on the right side. You suffer multiple heavy setbacks and it feels like the villains are always one step ahead of you past the rebellion in Cheve. The plot has a lot of stupid elements but these usually take a backseat when criticism is leveled at the writing because everyone's too busy whining about how Corrin, their player avatar, doesn't make them feel empowered and capable.

[Chaotix]

I've said this before, but a lot of the hate the story of Conquest gets is because it makes the player feel like shit about what they're doing. You're not on the right side. You suffer multiple heavy setbacks and it feels like the villains are always one step ahead of you past the rebellion in Cheve. The plot has a lot of stupid elements but these usually take a backseat when criticism is leveled at the writing because everyone's too busy whining about how Corrin, their player avatar, doesn't make them feel empowered and capable.

Actually when you put it this way I think you can draw a lot of parallels between Corrin and Micaiah - fighting on the wrong side, forced to commit or turn a blind eye to atrocities. And yet Begnion is not "the evil empire", they are ruled by assholes during Radiant Dawn but they were on the good side in Path of Radiance.

Then again a lot of people don't like the blood contracts as a plot device either!

[Ryas]

Not a lot of people are a fan of the Hoshidan throne as a plot device either.

[Karis]

But all this stupid between Corrin and Azura...Ugh, I hope Soliel isn't written too badly, since that's one of my primary motivations besides the gameplay that's eeping me still going along with the Nohr path with gusto...

Good news then, you'll love Soleil.

[Dark Holy Elf]

I've said this before, but a lot of the hate the story of Conquest gets is because it makes the player feel like shit about what they're doing. You're not on the right side. You suffer multiple heavy setbacks and it feels like the villains are always one step ahead of you past the rebellion in Cheve. The plot has a lot of stupid elements but these usually take a backseat when criticism is leveled at the writing because everyone's too busy whining about how Corrin, their player avatar, doesn't make them feel empowered and capable.

I agree with this.

Micaiah is probably my favourite FE main character to date (it's slim pickings, granted) because of her reaction to the shit situation she is put in and how the game kinda forces her to be bad. I find it intruiging, seeing a possible reason a character might support an evil cause while being noble themselves.

I kinda see some parallels between her and Conquest!Corrin, for sure. I actually like that Conquest!Corrin is weak, naive, and makes some boneheaded decisions. Unlike Robin who is basically perfect (outside a backstory where she was evil before losing her memories, but hey she's super-awesome now so who cares), and Kris who I believe was the same but FE12's character work is so bland I forget all the details, the game's willing to let Corrin be wrong and be nagged with self-doubts. This is good!

Unfortunately Conquest's writing isn't as good as Radiant Dawn's so the character doesn't end up as endearing/convincing, I think.

[Abysswalker25]

I agree with this.

Micaiah is probably my favourite FE main character to date (it's slim pickings, granted) because of her reaction to the shit situation she is put in and how the game kinda forces her to be bad. I find it intruiging, seeing a possible reason a character might support an evil cause while being noble themselves.

I kinda see some parallels between her and Conquest!Corrin, for sure. I actually like that Conquest!Corrin is weak, naive, and makes some boneheaded decisions. Unlike Robin who is basically perfect (outside a backstory where she was evil before losing her memories, but hey she's super-awesome now so who cares), and Kris who I believe was the same but FE12's character work is so bland I forget all the details, the game's willing to let Corrin be wrong and be nagged with self-doubts. This is good!

Unfortunately Conquest's writing isn't as good as Radiant Dawn's so the character doesn't end up as endearing/convincing, I think.

I think Micaiah also got the words "Mary Sue" thrown her way as well, if I remember correctly. They are pretty similar, thinking about it.

[warchiefwilliams]

I think Micaiah also got the words "Mary Sue" thrown her way as well, if I remember correctly. They are pretty similar, thinking about it.

I would argue that Corrin is even more of a mary sue than Micaiah. If we are assuming that "mary sue" means "all powerful self-insert" then Corrin is the living definition of a mary sue.

Does Corrin meet the following criteria?

1. They are super-powerful/hyper-competent.

2. The story completely revolves around them, even in... No, ESPECIALLY in established settings.(note the last part more applies to OCs)

3. They can do no wrong. Everyone loves the Mary Sue and defends them even against perfectly reasonable concerns, invariably demonizing people that make these concerns.

..... Yeah, Conquest Corrin is a mary-sue.... I can't help but wonder how much the story would be improved if they were not a mary-sue

Edited March 4, 2016 by warchiefwilliams

[Fallaner]

I would argue that Corrin is even more of a mary sue than Micaiah. If we are assuming that "mary sue" means "all powerful self-insert" then Corrin is the living definition of a mary sue.

Does Corrin meet the following criteria?

1. They are super-powerful/hyper-competent.

2. The story completely revolves around them, even in... No, ESPECIALLY in established settings.(note the last part more applies to OCs)

3. They can do no wrong. Everyone loves the Mary Sue and defends them even against perfectly reasonable concerns, invariably demonizing people that make these concerns.

..... Yeah, Conquest Corrin is a mary-sue.... I can't help but wonder how much the story would be improved if they were not a mary-sue

"A Mary Sue for female characters and Gary Stu or Marty Stu for male characters is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities."

...Might I say that sounds like quite a bit of FE protagonists? Your point being? A Mary Sue does not have to "do no wrong". A Mary Sue can in fact do things wrong. A Mary Sue is a fictional, idealized (Conquest!Corrin does not sound Idealized to me!), young or low-ranking character who saves the day through unrealistic abilities.

A Mary Sue does not have to be a self-insert (though often they are Author Self-Inserts, it is NOT required). They do not have to be all powerful.

Edited March 4, 2016 by Fallaner

[warchiefwilliams]

"A Mary Sue for female characters and Gary Stu or Marty Stu for male characters is an idealized and seemingly perfect fictional character, a young or low-rank person who saves the day through unrealistic abilities."

...Might I say that sounds like quite a bit of FE protagonists? Your point being? A Mary Sue does not have to "do no wrong". A Mary Sue can in fact do things wrong. A Mary Sue is a fictional, idealized (Conquest!Corrin does not sound Idealized to me!), young or low-ranking character who saves the day through unrealistic abilities.

I will concede that point to you. I suppose part of the problem of bringing up the mary-sue/gary-stu argument is that a lot of FE characters do meet the criteria. So if you want to get technical, the entire army is comprised of mary-sues .

[Fallaner]

I will concede that point to you. I suppose part of the problem of bringing up the mary-sue/gary-stu argument is that a lot of FE characters do meet the criteria. So if you want to get technical, the entire army is comprised of mary-sues .

Then that argument should be done with.

If I see anyone else bring it up, I will start hitting people.

Glad we could be civil about things and end that quickly.