So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[Azure Sen]

So wait, when people say Corrin wins battles without killing anyone, they actually do mean it literally? As in he doesn't just avoid killing named characters but literally any soldier at all?

Yes, he literally somehow manages to avoid killing anyone, even by accident, even if they were hit with something like Lethality.

[eclipse]

So wait, when people say Corrin wins battles without killing anyone, they actually do mean it literally? As in he doesn't just avoid killing named characters but literally any soldier at all?

Yep, right in the story. Which is the fault of the writing, not Corrin being an idiot (the order itself can be given, but it doesn't mean that the writing has to fulfill it).

I have some theories as to why he's so wildly successful at it, but I'd like to finish the game first.

As for Chapter 19. . .

It would've been hilariously morbid if Corrin went through the village, and then skinned their corpses for funds anyway. A perfectly good pelt shouldn't be wasted~!

[NekoKnight]

So wait, when people say Corrin wins battles without killing anyone, they actually do mean it literally? As in he doesn't just avoid killing named characters but literally any soldier at all?

So are we still supposed to appreciate Kamui for not getting anyone killed in his battles during the invasion of Hoshido, even though Garon/Hans/Iago's armies are slaughtering anyone they come across? Those deaths are ok because Kamui isn't directly involved right?

Some battles are noted as being perfect "not a single enemy casualty" battles but others are left ambiguous, or specifically imply death.

[spoiler=Conquest chapter 19 and 23]

All the spirit foxes and Takumi's men (poor Oboro and Hinata) are implied to be killed. It's not really explained why certain battles are done with lethal combat and others not.

Edited March 6, 2016 by NekoKnight

[semolinaro]

Yes, he literally somehow manages to avoid killing anyone, even by accident, even if they were hit with something like Lethality.

When I'm playing I just pretend he's killing everyone. Sorry to be sadistic, but 'sparing' my enemies lives in a game about war takes away from the thrill of battle.

Why couldn't you have been more cold blooded Corrin...

[BruceLee]

Some battles are noted as being perfect "not a single enemy casualty" battles but others are left ambiguous, or specifically imply death.

[spoiler=Conquest chapter 19 and 23]

All the spirit foxes and Takumi's men (poor Oboro and Hinata) are implied to be killed. It's not really explained why certain battles are done with lethal combat and others not.

I believe Aqua says to Kamui they need to get back to the captured soldiers after Takumi jumps off the wall. It seems the writers just wanted to kill off the retainers of whichever sibling died.

I have no explanation for the fox tribe.

[RedRob]

Yes. I have always seen different categories of Mary Sues since I was really into writing fanfiction, this isn't exactly news to me. Looking at the list that Hunter Nightblood posted, Nohr!Kamui may fall under "Sympathetic Sue" more than anything else.

I thought he would fall under Black Hole Sue.

The only stus I ever been able to tolerate are Parody Stues, and characters who are set up as stus only to be deconstructed later on. Some examples of that can be found on this page, http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/DeconstructedTrope/VideoGames.

I would list more, if I could only find some.

[BrightBow]

Maybe Corrin simply sends his enemies into the next dimension or banishes them into the Shadow Realm.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BrightBow

[BruceLee]

We are definitely giving it more thought than the writers did.

[warchiefwilliams]

We are definitely giving it more thought than the writers did.

(shrug) Shows we at least give two craps about the story and want to improve it. Its far better than just completely ignoring the elephant in the room. Besides, we are probably giving some fanfic writer (i.e myself) some good ideas for a Conquest rewrite.

[Thane]

We are definitely giving it more thought than the writers did.

Now we just need to make sure some Nintendo/Intelligent Systems bigwig sees all of our threads.

Ideas, anyone?

[BrightBow]

I think I'm going to reject any debate that requires taking the statement that Corrin's army never kills anyone at face value. This is just bullshit. Do swords have a stun setting? No one wins a battle without any killing.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BrightBow

[BruceLee]

I can suspend disbelief when it comes to overkilling a unit during battles and they still survive, because that's a gameplay thing, but the thought of armies colliding and everyone surviving is just stupid.

[Abysswalker25]

So are we still supposed to appreciate Kamui for not getting anyone killed in his battles during the invasion of Hoshido, even though Garon/Hans/Iago's armies are slaughtering anyone they come across? Those deaths are ok because Kamui isn't directly involved right?

Those deaths aren't okay, who said they were?

As for killing some and sparing some.. I don't know. Plot invoked deaths? They don't really explain it too well. Maybe they can't spare everyone and end up accidently killing them? Sparing anyone would be kinda hard in the heat of battle to do all the time. I can't really say.

Now we just need to make sure some Nintendo/Intelligent Systems bigwig sees all of our threads.

Ideas, anyone?

I hope the positives don't get drowned out by all the endless (don't take this the wrong way) complaining.

I want them to keep the gameplay of Conquest because it is fantastic.

[warchiefwilliams]

I think I'm going to reject any debate that requires taking the statement that Corrin's army never kills anyone at face value. This is just bullshit. Do swords have a stun setting? No one wins a battle without any killing.

Alas, this is the magical world of fantasy where anything is possible!

Again, the game is just trying to make Corrin out to be the good guy when they sides with Nohr. Having a no-kill run was just the writers main idea for making Corrin seem "good". I agree with you though, it is a definite impossibility to have a no-kill battle unless we are using rubber swords.

[semolinaro]

It's as if IS had to find a way to make the story work on Conquest's side with the character they had in mind in a super, super rushed setting. Crafting believable characters and a solid plot takes time, and Conquest's storyline screams rushed and unproofed to me.

[StrikeZero]

again whether hes an idiot is up for debate though its kind of hard to blame Corrin, remember its serve the Nohrian army or die as Garon's plan was to kill both you AND Mikoto and Corrin doesn't kill people as far as i know, he fully tells everyone in his army to not kill people and take them captives, its Iago, Garon and Hans who show up afterwards for the clean up party

and no. Ryoma does kill himself

, granted everyone may not survive without some serious damage ( i'm sure even people who survived had broken or even missing limbs by the end of the fight) but Hoshidans do believe in surrender and captivity so being disarmed or badly damaged i assume they would surrender and be taken captive, conscious or not, though im sure casualties were there but they were probably minimal if the orders were don't kill anyone, in fact doesn't Corrin say "if you can"? i think i remember him telling Peri and Laslow "don't kill anyone if you can". or i might be wrong on that.

though he isn't the smartest tool in the shed, his plan is full of holes, despite being good in nature to change the nohrian army from within it hinges on the fact that Garon doesn't simply execute his ass and his plan failed anyways once Iago and Hans started following him after a battle to murder the captives. and the Dnacer thing makes 0 fucking sense, even if he was sitting in the highest balcony, her hair is the same color AND style and her voice is the same, in fact i think her outfit is to she just dyed it black and wore a mask over her lips, its as stupid as the He-Man disguise, oh and she controls water during the act too.

i wouldn't really call the story of Conquest bad, because i could easily say the Birthright story is bad because it is very typical for a FE game though the Conquest Corrin definitely isn't as smart as Corrin from birthright or revelation, the dancer thing is just obvious so it proves he isn't as smart as the other 2 Corrins.

Edited March 6, 2016 by StrikeZero

[Frelia]

Maybe Corrin simply sends his enemies into the next dimension or banishes them into the Shadow Realm.

You know what with how messy Conquest is this could be possible. Maybe Corrin tells Lilith to teleport all of the enemies they knock out to the Shadow Realm Deeprealms until the battle is over. In all seriousness though are there any sword techniques where you cause damage without killing?

Edited March 6, 2016 by Frelia

[Thane]

I hope the positives don't get drowned out by all the endless (don't take this the wrong way) complaining.

I want them to keep the gameplay of Conquest because it is fantastic.

People can criticize something and still like it, it's only natural on a platform like this. Trying to stifle it won't work, nor should you try to.

As far as I know, the vast majority - myself included - praises the gameplay of Conquest aside from a few irks or designs choices here and there. In that regard, Revelation is another can of worms entirely.

[BruceLee]

Those deaths aren't okay, who said they were?

As for killing some and sparing some.. I don't know. Plot invoked deaths? They don't really explain it too well. Maybe they can't spare everyone and end up accidently killing them? Sparing anyone would be kinda hard in the heat of battle to do all the time. I can't really say.

When i say ok i mean Kamui isn't called out for those deaths.

And that explanation doesn't work when there are battles where literally everyone survives.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BruceLee

[StrikeZero]

When i say ok i mean Kamui isn't called out for those deaths.

And that explanation doesn't work when there are battles where literally everyone survives.

it is true that Corrin does not refer or grieve over the deaths of the namesless soldiers who died as a byproduct of returning to Nohr though i can assume if you choose Birthright some of these fights probably still happen and people on both sides die while your infiltrating Nohr. it doesn't really matter which of the 3 paths you choose because its war so people on both sides will die anyways so it isn't really a sin on any of the 3 Corrin's anyways. granted a good character grieves over the death of nameless soldiers anyways and more of these soldiers do probably die as a result of choosing Nohr ( remember Corrin only leads a small portion of the army, not the whole thing), but ultimately it is a war and countless people were going to die anyways, what matters is the characters attitudes towards these deaths and Corrins......falls short i guess.

[RedRob]

You know, I'm kind of surprised Fallanar or however his name was spelled hasn't shown up in a while. Did he quit, thinking no one would listen to him? Or did he get banned considering we had a mod chew him out?

[StrikeZero]

h

You know, I'm kind of surprised Fallanar or however his name was spelled hasn't shown up in a while. Did he quit, thinking no one would listen to him? Or did he get banned considering we had a mod chew him out?

why what did he do? i didn't read this whole topic its to long

[Abysswalker25]

You know, I'm kind of surprised Fallanar or however his name was spelled hasn't shown up in a while. Did he quit, thinking no one would listen to him? Or did he get banned considering we had a mod chew him out?

Not the time or place for that.

People can criticize something and still like it, it's only natural on a platform like this. Trying to stifle it won't work, nor should you try to.

As far as I know, the vast majority - myself included - praises the gameplay of Conquest aside from a few irks or designs choices here and there. In that regard, Revelation is another can of worms entirely.

Well, of course. People wouldn't be complaining so much if they didn't love Fire Emblem on a forum dedicated to Fire Emblem (unless they're trolls or assholes). But It doesn't hurt to give a reminder of the good in the game, no?

When i say ok i mean Kamui isn't called out for those deaths.

And that explanation doesn't work when there are battles where literally everyone survives.

Uh, can you elaborate a bit more on this for me? Called out by who?

Edited March 6, 2016 by Abysswalker25

[StrikeZero]

Uh, can you elaborate a bit more on this for me? Called out by who?

i think he means that the character faces no repercussion or he/she does not reflect on the deaths of the soldiers who lost their lives fighting for their countries.

[BruceLee]

it is true that Corrin does not refer or grieve over the deaths of the namesless soldiers who died as a byproduct of returning to Nohr though i can assume if you choose Birthright some of these fights probably still happen and people on both sides die while your infiltrating Nohr. it doesn't really matter which of the 3 paths you choose because its war so people on both sides will die anyways so it isn't really a sin on any of the 3 Corrin's anyways. granted a good character grieves over the death of nameless soldiers anyways and more of these soldiers do probably die as a result of choosing Nohr ( remember Corrin only leads a small portion of the army, not the whole thing), but ultimately it is a war and countless people were going to die anyways, what matters is the characters attitudes towards these deaths and Corrins......falls short i guess.

It's not so much him reacting to deaths, it's him reacting to deaths that are the result of his actions, whether those deaths happen by his hand or not.

Uh, can you elaborate a bit more on this for me? Called out by who?

By the game. He isn't showing remorse over those deaths. In fact, he ''excuses himself'' in front of Ryoma for having spared Hinoka and her soldiers, saying all of this has been for the good of everyone.

edit: And as StrikeZero says, he faces no consequences. He's having a great time at the end when he's forgiven.

Edited March 6, 2016 by BruceLee