So why exactly do people call Conquest Corrin an idiot?(Conquest spoilers)

[Seanp12]

Honestly it's not so much Corrin's idiocy that bothers me so much as it's the Norhian siblings idiocy that bothers me, at least on the Birthright path. I don't understand how the siblings can claim to care for you so much, or at least Camilla and Elise do, but then are so quick to call you traitorous scum and try to kill you. This is especially infuriating when King Garon has tried to kill Corrin three times before the decision to side with Hoshido comes around;

• Once when Corrin refuses to execute Rinkah and Kaze (Which this one I can sorta let slide because you did directly disobey the King and show mercy to your sworn enemies.)
• Once when Hans tries to kill you at the bottomless canyon under orders from King Garon.
• Once when King Garon gives you a self destruct sword that would've killed Corrin if it wasn't for Mikoto.

So despite these attempts on Corrin's life and their explanation of this to his Nohrian siblings they simply call him traitorous scum and try to kill him. I mean what the actual fuck?! Corrin's basically like "Look dads trying to kill me, can you really call me a traitor for not wanting to return to the guy who has tried to have me killed three times now?" and the siblings are basically like "But you sided with Hoshido therefore you are scum." How can they possibly claim to care for Corrin if they aren't even willing to listen to what they have to say? I mean I can understand not siding with him but the fact that they try to actually kill him after everything that has happened is ludicrous.

To be fair, that's the reality they have to live with every day.

[Emblem Blade]

To be fair, that's the reality they have to live with every day.

Let's see how things are here for us...Serenes Forest is Corrin and all the people bashing each other with arguments that never get solved are each of us.

[eclipse]

Finished Conquest. Back hurts like crazy so I can't type out a full response. The gist of it, though, is that I think all the flak the story gets is highly overblown. So it didn't pan out to expectations - it made me feel more than Birthright's side, by a lot.

[Thane]

Finished Conquest. Back hurts like crazy so I can't type out a full response. The gist of it, though, is that I think all the flak the story gets is highly overblown. So it didn't pan out to expectations - it made me feel more than Birthright's side, by a lot.

My next class starts in a minute or so so I can't write a full response either (oh gods help me the one after this is even worse holy shit why am I even awake), but I do want to know if you've played Revelation yet.

I'm also curous to hear what made you feel more - I mean, I felt plenty of things as well, but none of them good - sure, a story should be able to make a reader feel all sorts of things, but Conquest made me feel all the wrong things for all the wrong reasons.

Sorry to hear about your back. I hope you'll feel better soon!

[BruceLee]

That's quite a lot coming from someone who I could start to think that has an opinion of 'Might makes right'. Corrin never does stupid things all the time, of course they would make mistakes, just about every FE Lord has made mistakes that other army members and players think need to be avoided.

I never said 'Corrin' in that line, I said that it's not a bad thing for characters to have some flaws if they sooner or later remove them over the course of the game. If by your implication is dictating what I said to Corrin and Corrin alone, then I'm wondering where you saw that.

As AzureSen said, i have no idea why you're assuming i think ''might makes right''. And are we not discussing Corrin here?

Corrin makes a very stupid decision in chapter 15 of invading Hoshido to let Garon sit on the throne, claiming it's for the good of everyone(not for the Hoshidans you dipshit). And nowhere in the story does he realize that was a bad idea, he even says he regrets nothing.

Honestly i feel bad for people trying to defend Conquest's story, because they have the writers against them. No matter how much you argue there will always be inconsistencies in your argument, because the story makes no damn sense.

[Azure Sen]

Xander was literally beating Corrin fairly in the cutscene sequence (although one could say that Corrin wasn't even defending themselves), the actual battle somewhat proves that Xander is basically shattered emotionally and his own beliefs are pretty much destroyed and he lost his will to fight so by that point he is weaker than he should be (but this point is off-topic).

I didn't necessarily mean weak physically. Xander is arguably stronger physically (until we bring gameplay and story segregation into it; on average Corrin is probably stronger by the time you reach Chapter 26), but Corrin is definitely stronger mentally and emotionally even before

Elise gets killed.

Corrin's more confident, more courageous, has the stronger moral center, and has more agency because he's proactive. Corrin and Xander definitely make interesting foils to each other on Birthright, but that's another discussion for another time.

[RadiantDragon]

I'm not very into discussions about moral since they tend to never lead anywhere (much like Fates story threads, hey-ooooh!), but wouldn't Conquest Corrin be a complete asshat morally speaking, since he could just let Zora do his dirty work and remove any obstacle to Garon sitting on that bloody glorified chair?

I don't think that would have made things better. Hoshido would still fight and lose and casualities would still happen(arguably moreso than originally because they lost their 4 strongholds) because Hans and Iago are asshats who will find new ways to make you suffer. Sure the war might not last as long but the amount of lives lost would still be the same if not more. Also if all 4 would have died right there, I am pretty sure ghost Takumi/or any other sibling wouldn't have given their blessing to you to repair the yato since at that point they would definietly hate you for what you have done.

Which means zombie Takumi(who can still be possesed even when dead) would have killed all the Nohrians and increased the death count.

Generally speaking, chapter 18 conquest felt pointless to me and should have never happened. That chapter could have easily lead to a different kind of conclusion if Corrin actually talked with his Hoshidian siblings about the war. This chapter alone had so much potential yet they threw it all away, never mentioning it again.

Honestly it's not so much Corrin's idiocy that bothers me so much as it's the Norhian siblings idiocy that bothers me, at least on the Birthright path. I don't understand how the siblings can claim to care for you so much, or at least Camilla and Elise do, but then are so quick to call you traitorous scum and try to kill you. This is especially infuriating when King Garon has tried to kill Corrin three times before the decision to side with Hoshido comes around;

• Once when Corrin refuses to execute Rinkah and Kaze (Which this one I can sorta let slide because you did directly disobey the King and show mercy to your sworn enemies.)
• Once when Hans tries to kill you at the bottomless canyon under orders from King Garon.
• Once when King Garon gives you a self destruct sword that would've killed Corrin if it wasn't for Mikoto.

So despite these attempts on Corrin's life and their explanation of this to his Nohrian siblings they simply call him traitorous scum and try to kill him. I mean what the actual fuck?! Corrin's basically like "Look dads trying to kill me, can you really call me a traitor for not wanting to return to the guy who has tried to have me killed three times now?" and the siblings are basically like "But you sided with Hoshido therefore you are scum." How can they possibly claim to care for Corrin if they aren't even willing to listen to what they have to say? I mean I can understand not siding with him but the fact that they try to actually kill him after everything that has happened is ludicrous.

THIS. While Corrin did some really stupid things he/she is not alone to blame since you can excuse it with lack of experience. If the Nohr sibling weren't so stubborn(especially Xander, dear lord what a misguided tool) Corrin wouldn't be forced to use such a flawed plan.

[Pretty_Handsome]

To be fair, that's the reality they have to live with every day.

Garon didn't try to kill any of them before the choice while he tried to kill Corrin three times.

Two of which the Nohr siblings know about.

[NekoKnight]

Garon didn't try to kill any of them before the choice while he tried to kill Corrin three times.

Two of which the Nohr siblings know about.

I'm surprised Kamui never brought up the 2nd attempt.

"Ganz told me he was sent by Garon to murder me, and he killed Gunter". That sounds relevant.

[Emblem Blade]

As AzureSen said, i have no idea why you're assuming i think ''might makes right''. And are we not discussing Corrin here?

Corrin makes a very stupid decision in chapter 15 of invading Hoshido to let Garon sit on the throne, claiming it's for the good of everyone(not for the Hoshidans you dipshit). And nowhere in the story does he realize that was a bad idea, he even says he regrets nothing.

Honestly i feel bad for people trying to defend Conquest's story, because they have the writers against them. No matter how much you argue there will always be inconsistencies in your argument, because the story makes no damn sense.

I'm assuming/guessing that because I have no real idea on what you're thinking until you reply. If I were you then I would know what you'd be thinking and I wouldn't need to reply on guessing what you think. Also the thread heading is 'Why is Conquest Corrin dumb?', not 'Why Conquest's Storyline sucks so much and what could be done to save it.'

Again, Corrin is still naive and doesn't know what he's doing or who the 'Garon' really is. Also, stop trying to put really bad names on other people (irl) that can sound insulting, some people don't take that so well. I'm no idiot. I was told forums was where opinions and ideas could be shown and argued for and against without being insulted if I re-read the Rules of Terms properly, so you have no right to call me by that label of 'dipshit' if you were directing that at me.

Conquest's story could be better, but it's not a bad game in general. There will be inconsistencies in everyone's argument because right now arguing about a useless argument on a pointless thread is just pointless (and what I just said is repetitive I know). There are less options to make your units better but that's what makes this route better than the other two, you can't easily make the story chapters easier by making your units too strong before hand (harder difficulties on Classic make it like that in Conquest/I don't like being hit by those Master Ninjas).

[BruceLee]

I'm assuming/guessing that because I have no real idea on what you're thinking until you reply. If I were you then I would know what you'd be thinking and I wouldn't need to reply on guessing what you think. Also the thread heading is 'Why is Conquest Corrin dumb?', not 'Why Conquest's Storyline sucks so much and what could be done to save it.'

Again, Corrin is still naive and doesn't know what he's doing or who the 'Garon' really is. Also, stop trying to put really bad names on other people (irl) that can sound insulting, some people don't take that so well. I'm no idiot. I was told forums was where opinions and ideas could be shown and argued for and against without being insulted if I re-read the Rules of Terms properly, so you have no right to call me by that label of 'dipshit' if you were directing that at me.

Conquest's story could be better, but it's not a bad game in general. There will be inconsistencies in everyone's argument because right now arguing about a useless argument on a pointless thread is just pointless (and what I just said is repetitive I know). There are less options to make your units better but that's what makes this route better than the other two, you can't easily make the story chapters easier by making your units too strong before hand (harder difficulties on Classic make it like that in Conquest/I don't like being hit by those Master Ninjas).

I was referring to Corrin as a dipshit lol, not you. Sorry if it came across like that.

But the biggest reason why Conquest's story sucks so much is Corrin's decisions. What people were expecting from Conquest was a rebellion against Garon, from inside Nohr. Not helping Garon in his invasion of an innocent nation. Most of the criticism towards the story leads back to Corrin.

And Corrin knew perfect well what he was doing and what Garon was, that's the whole reason for the invasion.

I agree Conquest's gameplay looks amazing, it's just too bad the story is so bad.

Edited March 9, 2016 by BruceLee

[Seanp12]

Garon didn't try to kill any of them before the choice while he tried to kill Corrin three times.

Two of which the Nohr siblings know about.

Leo says that all of them know very well that disobeying Garon is a death sentence, even for them. Xander may be the only one that can get away with any sort of open disobedience, but even that is limited. The only difference is that Xander, Leo, and Camilla are used to the situation by then, and thus they don't do anything to receive Garon's ire--at least not openly. Didn't Leo say they had made an art of an appearance of obedience?

[RJWalker]

I can't handle it. I have never seen such a cowardly irredeemable piece of shit like Conquest Corrin after Chapter 15. There are outright villains that are more sympathetic than Corrin. Corrin needs to die more than many many villains in the series do.

[Emblem Blade]

I was referring to Corrin as a dipshit lol, not you. Sorry if it came across like that.

But the biggest reason why Conquest's story sucks so much is Corrin's decisions. What people were expecting from Conquest was a rebellion against Garon, from inside Nohr. Not helping Garon in his invasion of an innocent nation. Most of the criticism towards the story leads back to Corrin.

And Corrin knew perfect well what he was doing and what Garon was, that's the whole reason for the invasion.

I agree Conquest's gameplay looks amazing, it's just too bad the story is so bad.

It's ok, I'm not going to let that get to my head to hard (I was mostly confused on who you were calling out on). Most Lords of FE are rather bad at making decisions or act like idiots in their first game (not many make up for those failures).

Well, people can influence one's actions. I don't think the Nohr Siblings were helping Corrin out on his decisions regarding dethroning Garon from the start (to loyal to their 'father').

It's not common when a game has both a wonderful gameplay and story where everyone can agree (in FE things started to go downhill like right now), it's usually the gameplay or the storyline.

Another poor factor is that in both games, you're sometimes given options at times to make but most events are forced by the story and you can never choose which option at times. What I'm saying regarding Fates in general is: Characters will ask Corrin to make a decision. Rarely will you get a prompt on your screen asking you which option to choose. Most of the time these are in-game events that will make that decision for you.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Emblem Blade

[Reject]

Corrin being completely unlikable and cowardly combined with probably the weakest plots in the series is making it really difficult for me to write any fanfiction. Granted, the only reason why I didn't have this problem in Awakening was because Robin is a total fucking plot-stealing Mary Sue, but regardless this is making me frustrated.

Why is nearly every other character far more interesting than Corrin?

[TheWerdna]

Basically this.

Source

[Emblem Blade]

I didn't necessarily mean weak physically. Xander is arguably stronger physically (until we bring gameplay and story segregation into it; on average Corrin is probably stronger by the time you reach Chapter 26), but Corrin is definitely stronger mentally and emotionally even before

Elise gets killed.

Corrin's more confident, more courageous, has the stronger moral center, and has more agency because he's proactive. Corrin and Xander definitely make interesting foils to each other on Birthright, but that's another discussion for another time.

And that's why I believe people think why Corrin is 'weak' in each path regardless. Their decisions are made by their moral convictions at times (which causes issues when on the battlefield). They'll make a decision based on what they know and believe is correct and possibly screw up there, then afterwards they'll continue making decisions which aren't really needed.

Gameplay-wise excluding story-purposes (so no Corrin, you can't say you're stronger than Xander and/or Ryoma here unless you're sure), excluding secondary classes and reclassing options and only taking into account the their main class options and their growth rates, Xander comes out to being stronger (slightly).

[Skornvorax]

I cant blame people for dispising Corrin in Conquest, although I cant blame him for going back to Nohr... I mean lets face it, even if he was captured and such, though his whole life, the Nohrians were basically his family, then out of nowhere come the Hoshidans treating him all nice and good and antagonizing his own family... I mean lets face it, if you got a great life with your adoptive family and then out of nowhere, someone tells you that they are your father/mother and start treating you well and such.... would you really go to the other side? That being said, I was hoping that in Conquest we would at least see a more interesting side of the villians, something that could make characters like Iago,Hans and Garon likeable... but nope! I just wanted all this time to take out my yato, put on my Hero armor and say "You know what? No! Fuck you, im taking Nohr now!".... now im just waiting for Revelations,because I cant wait to take my time with the game and not having to care about those goddamn generic villians

[Emblem Blade]

I cant blame people for dispising Corrin in Conquest, although I cant blame him for going back to Nohr... I mean lets face it, even if he was captured and such, though his whole life, the Nohrians were basically his family, then out of nowhere come the Hoshidans treating him all nice and good and antagonizing his own family... I mean lets face it, if you got a great life with your adoptive family and then out of nowhere, someone tells you that they are your father/mother and start treating you well and such.... would you really go to the other side? That being said, I was hoping that in Conquest we would at least see a more interesting side of the villians, something that could make characters like Iago,Hans and Garon likeable... but nope! I just wanted all this time to take out my yato, put on my Hero armor and say "You know what? No! Fuck you, im taking Nohr now!".... now im just waiting for Revelations,because I cant wait to take my time with the game and not having to care about those goddamn generic villians

Regarding the family part (and not taking Revelation into account): If you're ignoring the fact that Corrin was technically born and initially raised in Hoshido before being taken to Nohr and raised there. So far due to the story and possibly before that, the only two people who showed Corrin love and affection in Nohr was Xander and Gunter. Xander who himself states he taught them to love others. Gunter who acted more as a parent to them than 'Garon' ever could by reversing punishment to playtime when they were little (as Gunter phrases it, 'Garon' didn't like Corrin since they cried to much and isolated themselves from everyone else but then again Corrin was really young). While you could argue in Sakura's case, Ryoma somewhat explains why Hinoka is particularly bonded with Corrin more than the other siblings in Hoshido. Ryoma and Xander only wanted Corrin to return back to the kingdom that has loved them (Nohr for Xander and Hoshido for Ryoma but this gets somewhat subverted in Revelation after a while) since they were born/raised. Elise sees Corrin as a big brother/sister who should come back home (after they disappeared at the end up one of their missions earlier on). Sakura ends up blaming herself for Corrin's capture (due to rumor going around saying that it was her not Corrin that was the initial target), overall, Sakura wants the same thing that Elise desires (for Corrin to return back to their home kingdom and in Sakura's case it's Hoshido). Camille wants to be with them again to show them her 'special' love. Hinoka blames herself heavily for her younger sibling being captured, and according to Ryoma, she broke down hard emotionally for a very long time. She breaks down hard again if you side with Nohr. And with Leo and Takumi it's a toss-up although Leo doesn't show as much hesitation and doubt towards Corrin if they return Nohr compared to Takumi (Chapter 25 of Birthright is where Takumi finally comes to his senses entirely).

*In regards to the thread's topic: Corrin does act naive and stupid at some point then continues to make questionable choices that end up being bad options one way or another. However, they do show signs of a possible true leader (again I'm not taking Revelation into account here).

*In regards to the game itself: Gameplay for each path is great at the least. Conquest is challenging on Hard and Lunatic, especially if you do Classic not Casual. Birthright is ok but feels a bit too easy even on Hard/Classic as the easiest setting. Don't ask me about Revelations. The story behind each path and the reasons for why each character makes their decisions could be expanded on to avoid confusion among players, and most of us here could easily say the story scripts and events could be better than it is.

[Skornvorax]

I cant say much about the Gameplay part because I beaten both paths in Normal/Casual..... because I want to.... anyway, I can understand why people would find it easy but eh... I had alot of fun with both,even more Birthright for letting me take my time....

Now in the plot thing it kinda makes sense but, I still feel like joining the Nohrian makes abit more sense, sure the weird obsession for Camilla and just sillyness of Elisse can get annoying but they were kinda likeable.... I honestly enjoyed Nohr more then Hoshido for the characters, of course there are some great ones in Hoshi but I preffered Nohr in general.... also I cant denny that the plot feels meh but... lets face it, Fire Emblem never had the greatest plot, sure it was abit better before but I feel like it hasnt downgraded sooooo much as people say, I found it all right in the Birthright path, while the Conquest path kinda annoyed me, I did liked how somethigns were kept to a mystery and I honestly cant wait for Revelations for reasons I already explained

[Sire]

I just finished Conquest yesterday... (This post is going off of knowledge of only Conquest, I have not played Birthright or Revelations yet.)

Yeah, Conquest Corrin is an idiot. Early to mid game I can understand where he is coming from and the situation he is in, but as the campaign progresses (past Chapter 21) his character gets progressively and progressively worse, even with the revised "I'll show you what merciless is!" to Hans and Iago in Chapter 26.

What triggered me was the finale, when Possessed Takumi comes along and Corrin, being as naive as he is, says "Sure Takumi, take out your anger on me. You are not possessed, just angry, even though I just fought off my slime dad who was clearly not himself and you don't see to be yourself either, but go ahead, shoot me." Then Corrin "dies", there's the afterlife scene, and then the classic "everyone calls out to you, please come back" scenario.

How can Corrin be so blind and fail to realize that Takumi is not himself? He has a purple aura around him and he doesn't move naturally, and his speech patterns are off! Come on man! Seriously! For once you have the power to make your own choice, and you choose to get yourself shot?! Art thou blind, little man?!

* * * * *

Back to my numbered lists...

1: Corrin tries to be the "good guy", choosing mercy whenever possible. Initially, this works (Rinkah and Kaze, Ice Tribe, Chapter 11), but he fails to save the rebels at Cheve. As the campaign progresses, Corrin continues to get mixed results, but is clearly losing on trying to spare everyone. (He manages to save some performers during Chapter 14, chooses to save his family at Chapter 18, tries to spare the Hoshidians at Chapter 22 before most of them are executed, manages to sneak out Hinoka at Chapter 24, tries to spare Ryoma before he kills himself due to circumstances, even trying to reason with Not!Takumi in the finale.)

1a: While I did appreciate Corrin trying to be the good guy and do the right thing, it is clear that he lacks agency and even then, is somewhat of an idiot when trying to reason with a Possessed Takumi. Leo is the voice of reason in Conquest, and while he has some flaws of his own, he actually seems to have a brain unlike most others. (He kills Zola and Iago. 10/10)

1b: I would be fine with this trait, but Corrin goes too far with trying to reason with Takumi at the very end. That was another immersion-breaking moment for me, and combined with all the other nonsense Corrin does, tipped the scales out of Corrin's favor.

1c: I think some fans would have liked Conquest Corrin a little better if he managed to do something, however small, during Chapter 13 at Cheve. I too would have liked if Corrin managed to do something, but again, I feel that Corrin's failure to save them during this chapter is important to the storyline. A compromise may be that Corrin attempts to smuggle out Scarlet and a few rebels, but they get caught and are made an example of (gives an excuse why Scarlet dies horribly in Conquest and grants Corrin some agency, although he still fails and has the guilt of being unable to save them).

2: Corrin can't think of alternative paths besides the "Throne of Truth" from Azura when it comes down to handling Garon.

2a: If I were to try and stay vanilla, and I said this in my previous post, Chapter 24 could have been the breaking point where Corrin and company rebel against Garon instead of continuing to invade Hoshido. Nohr's army is split between Xander Loyalists and Garon Loyalists. Corrin may even be able to get some aid from Hoshidian forces because his ties to Hinoka and Ryoma, even though it is likely to be difficult to have to armies who were fighting each other to suddenly team up and go against the real threat. (Even though isn't that Relavations plotline?...) Corrin's ultimate goal is to unmask Garon and bring peace to the land, and if there is a way to do that without further bloodshed, when they not take that path?

2b: Another, which I think is a common theme in this topic, is Chapter 15. Corrin, after learning the truth, goes to his siblings and tries to convince them that Garon is no longer himself. Yes, it may be difficult, but it is possible that it may work as they notice inconsistencies between the Garon they used to know (Leo: Garon was a ladies man and he gave me piggyback rides!) and what he is now (Garon: You are my child now. You shall suffer. The world shall suffer. I will be king of the world!). This point can be emphasized further when Xander joins up the next chapter as he can most accurately recall the previous Garon he looked up to. Of course, should Corrin fail to convince his siblings, he can continue with Azura's plan of having Garon sit on the Hoshidian throne to reveal his true nature.

* * * * *

Overall though, Conquest's gameplay and characters still shines out for me. Yes, the story and plot fall apart, but I can still manage and see what they are going for, even though I don't agree with the direction. If / When I get around to playing Birthright and Relavations, I can post my thoughts about them as well if anyone is interested.

[Emblem Blade]

I just finished Conquest yesterday... (This post is going off of knowledge of only Conquest, I have not played Birthright or Revelations yet.)

Yeah, Conquest Corrin is an idiot. Early to mid game I can understand where he is coming from and the situation he is in, but as the campaign progresses (past Chapter 21) his character gets progressively and progressively worse, even with the revised "I'll show you what merciless is!" to Hans and Iago in Chapter 26.

What triggered me was the finale, when Possessed Takumi comes along and Corrin, being as naive as he is, says "Sure Takumi, take out your anger on me. You are not possessed, just angry, even though I just fought off my slime dad who was clearly not himself and you don't see to be yourself either, but go ahead, shoot me." Then Corrin "dies", there's the afterlife scene, and then the classic "everyone calls out to you, please come back" scenario.

How can Corrin be so blind and fail to realize that Takumi is not himself? He has a purple aura around him and he doesn't move naturally, and his speech patterns are off! Come on man! Seriously! For once you have the power to make your own choice, and you choose to get yourself shot?! Art thou blind, little man?!

* * * * *

Back to my numbered lists...

1: Corrin tries to be the "good guy", choosing mercy whenever possible. Initially, this works (Rinkah and Kaze, Ice Tribe, Chapter 11), but he fails to save the rebels at Cheve. As the campaign progresses, Corrin continues to get mixed results, but is clearly losing on trying to spare everyone. (He manages to save some performers during Chapter 14, chooses to save his family at Chapter 18, tries to spare the Hoshidians at Chapter 22 before most of them are executed, manages to sneak out Hinoka at Chapter 24, tries to spare Ryoma before he kills himself due to circumstances, even trying to reason with Not!Takumi in the finale.)

1a: While I did appreciate Corrin trying to be the good guy and do the right thing, it is clear that he lacks agency and even then, is somewhat of an idiot when trying to reason with a Possessed Takumi. Leo is the voice of reason in Conquest, and while he has some flaws of his own, he actually seems to have a brain unlike most others. (He kills Zola and Iago. 10/10)

1b: I would be fine with this trait, but Corrin goes too far with trying to reason with Takumi at the very end. That was another immersion-breaking moment for me, and combined with all the other nonsense Corrin does, tipped the scales out of Corrin's favor.

1c: I think some fans would have liked Conquest Corrin a little better if he managed to do something, however small, during Chapter 13 at Cheve. I too would have liked if Corrin managed to do something, but again, I feel that Corrin's failure to save them during this chapter is important to the storyline. A compromise may be that Corrin attempts to smuggle out Scarlet and a few rebels, but they get caught and are made an example of (gives an excuse why Scarlet dies horribly in Conquest and grants Corrin some agency, although he still fails and has the guilt of being unable to save them).

2: Corrin can't think of alternative paths besides the "Throne of Truth" from Azura when it comes down to handling Garon.

2a: If I were to try and stay vanilla, and I said this in my previous post, Chapter 24 could have been the breaking point where Corrin and company rebel against Garon instead of continuing to invade Hoshido. Nohr's army is split between Xander Loyalists and Garon Loyalists. Corrin may even be able to get some aid from Hoshidian forces because his ties to Hinoka and Ryoma, even though it is likely to be difficult to have to armies who were fighting each other to suddenly team up and go against the real threat. (Even though isn't that Relavations plotline?...) Corrin's ultimate goal is to unmask Garon and bring peace to the land, and if there is a way to do that without further bloodshed, when they not take that path?

2b: Another, which I think is a common theme in this topic, is Chapter 15. Corrin, after learning the truth, goes to his siblings and tries to convince them that Garon is no longer himself. Yes, it may be difficult, but it is possible that it may work as they notice inconsistencies between the Garon they used to know (Leo: Garon was a ladies man and he gave me piggyback rides!) and what he is now (Garon: You are my child now. You shall suffer. The world shall suffer. I will be king of the world!). This point can be emphasized further when Xander joins up the next chapter as he can most accurately recall the previous Garon he looked up to. Of course, should Corrin fail to convince his siblings, he can continue with Azura's plan of having Garon sit on the Hoshidian throne to reveal his true nature.

* * * * *

Overall though, Conquest's gameplay and characters still shines out for me. Yes, the story and plot fall apart, but I can still manage and see what they are going for, even though I don't agree with the direction. If / When I get around to playing Birthright and Relavations, I can post my thoughts about them as well if anyone is interested.

I can follow up and agree to the most of what you're saying. I would imagine Corrin could get Elise and possibly Leo to side with them in Chapter 15 as they seem to either be very much bonded to them (Corrin, in this case the person is Elise) or very cautious of the changing events (Leo the mastermind of the Nohr Royal Siblings). Xander, meh, if you know where his loyalty tend to lead him it's like trying to talk to a nearly dead patient. Camille can be argued with both ways since she loves Corrin a lot (too much though for them really as they even admit).

[Reject]

So far due to the story and possibly before that, the only two people who showed Corrin love and affection in Nohr was Xander and Gunter.

But...that's not correct at all.

Camilla LOVES Corrin. Like, in a borderline obsessive and unnerving way. She loves Corrin so much that she would murder anyone who so much as looked at him/her the wrong way without a second thought about it.

Elise loves Corrin, too. She defies her own father to save Corrin because she loves him/her and believes in him/her.

Leo also loves Corrin and shows his care for him/her by encouraging him/her to be diligent, studious, and intelligent. He also sends his retainers to help Corrin because he doesn't want to see Corrin fail.

Jakob/Felicia are completely and totally devoted to Corrin, as shown by them joining Corrin no matter what.

Lilith, though not really involved much with the plot, was Corrin's good friend and cared a lot about him/her.

Corrin has almost ZERO memories of Hoshido. His/Her memory is compromised in Nohr, too, but he/she still knew everyone I just listed and knew that they love him/her.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Reject

[Emblem Blade]

But...that's not correct at all.

Camilla LOVES Corrin. Like, in a borderline obsessive and unnerving way. She loves Corrin so much that she would murder anyone who so much as looked at him/her the wrong way without a second thought about it.

Elise loves Corrin, too. She defies her own father to save Corrin because she loves him/her and believes in him/her.

Leo also loves Corrin and shows his care for him/her by encouraging him/her to be diligent, studious, and intelligent. He also sends his retainers to help Corrin because he doesn't want to see Corrin fail.

Jakob/Felicia are completely and totally devoted to Corrin, as shown by them joining Corrin no matter what.

Lilith, though not really involved much with the plot, was Corrin's good friend and cared a lot about him/her.

Corrin has almost ZERO memories of Hoshido. His/Her memory is compromised in Nohr, too, but he/she still knew everyone I just listed and knew that they love him/her.

Ok, that is correct, I went wrong somewhere. But from what we were able to know granted from supports and dialogue in any route, Gunter was most likely the first character in Nohr that showed any real affection and love towards Corrin.

Since if during their support with Gunter that details that 'Corrin was secluded and isolated from the other children when they were really young' is true, then it can be debated if Corrin knew the Nohr Royal Siblings prior to being with Gunter. Corrin obviously (or subtly) returns everyone's affection towards them leading them to be too soft-hearted around those he cares for. Since 'Garon' is the one who took the very young Corrin into Nohr (well, Sumeragi [while he was alive and as himself] and Corrin [as a very young child] were already in Nohr [Cheve]). However 'Garon' wasn't that pleased with Corrin since they cried too much and didn't interact with anyone else due to their young nature. Leading to Gunter being the first real character to really show any signs of affection and love to them during their time in Nohr (prior to the game's actual events). Lilith is actually Corrin's blood-sister but that ins't revealed unless you do The Invisible History DLC in Fates. We don't really know when prior to the game did Corrin meet Jakob/Felicia. Yes, each of the Nohr siblings do indeed love Corrin regardless, just that Gunter is the first person up to date that actually has succeeded in doing so as his support would like to say.

[Pretty_Handsome]

False on the memories. Corrin regains their old memories after their blood mother sacrifices herself to save them. It's why they go berserk.

Leo says that all of them know very well that disobeying Garon is a death sentence, even for them. Xander may be the only one that can get away with any sort of open disobedience, but even that is limited. The only difference is that Xander, Leo, and Camilla are used to the situation by then, and thus they don't do anything to receive Garon's ire--at least not openly. Didn't Leo say they had made an art of an appearance of obedience?

Yet Corrin didn't disobey those 2 other times and they know it. They also refuse to believe Corrin on it.

Some siblings they are.

Garon could have succeeded in killing Corrin and they would just blame Corrin for doing something wrong to deserve it.

Corrin helps the siblings far more by leaving Nohr and killing Garon as staying keeps the status quo and that's exactly what happens in the Conquest story. The siblings are even willing to let you due in the end until Xander decides that he doesn't want to sit there and die by his father's hand.

Edited March 9, 2016 by Pretty_Handsome