Kirby's Return to Mafia Land - Game Over

[CT075]

someone remind me what lovers are

is it like kill one = kill other? because tbh i don't see how that helps us right in the now - specifically, does it even matter if we get rekt today? Who is scum? I am actually personally most inclined to Marth because like that reasoning for not sitting on Clarinets really rubs me wrong. If it had like, made sense I'd be okay with it, but it feels more like it's a bullshit reason. idk reading is hard and i have physics homework to do

[Bluedoom]

Dude

Why is a bodyguard not being on a cop under suspicion a good chunk of the game scummy?

If he was scum then he'd just be lying to get a mislynch.

If he was town then he still wouldn't be useful anyway since we didn't know his sanity and scum would push that as well as try casing him.

Like, what part of this reasoning do you not get? Like why wouldn't I BG one of my town reads over some guy I have no clue about?

[Randa]

It gets rid of one of town's mislynches. As in, town has one less lynch (yesterday was 6/3 and if we mislynched, it'd be 4/3 today and scum wouldn't have won; if we NL'd, then it'd be 5/3 today and scum would win upon a mislynch).

Yeah, that's the only thing that makes me doubt my Randa read TBH. Not sure if I should be voting him or Elieson at this point, but yeah I'll need to think about it. Probably wouldn't vote Boron or Kirsche today though because ugh like I agree they both have aspects to their play individually that makes me think "yeah das scummy" but then overall I have a hard time scumreading them.

Im sorry maybe my brains not working very well, but what's the difference, scum can win today regardless. Also but why does us no lynchign put suspicion on instead of Kirsche. I told you in advance I wouldn't be around at deadline, now it is my fault for forgetting to change my vote before I fell asleep, but my mind wasn't exactly focused on the game. Kirsche on the other proposed we no lynched and actually pushed for it iirc.

Posting to remind myself to get in here when I get home tonight and comment on things that mitsuki asked but it's nice to see that Marth's jumped in and posted more than cam does on an average day.

$$Vote Randa

Why we haven't lynched this, I still don't know.

We haven't lynched me because you changed your vote to izuhark yesterday, for reasons I still don't fully understand, causing us to not have the necessary numbers to lynch me, because there is no way in hell im voting myself in a potential mylo situation, when I know my death could lose us the game and handing scum one of the dumbest ways to win ever. I mean it would be hilarious to watch, scum winning off of some towny hammering themselves. But even im not willing to play that contradictory to my win-con to amuse myself so I can't imagine anybody else on the sight is.

Refa is confirmed town assuming Izhuark/Marth are town. Izhuark was at 4 votes yesterday and he could have hammered him, but he didn't. And him being able to end the game by a mislynch yesterday is the reason why you didn't want to lynch yesterday. If Marth may replace Refa in your suggested scumteam then Refa is town and if he doesn't then Refa is also town, from your point of view.

Man Kirsche you sure are INTERESTED in knowing about my role. I can explain it now, yeah. In my next post.

Not so sure about it but this looks like fearmongering to me.

It's ok if you're gutreading Kirsche as town (well, it sucks for me, but what can I do about it lol) but don't just assume he is because it's hard to admit you could have gone wrong. We all sucked this game, and sadly I'm pretty sure we're going to lose. But the mistakes are already written and you're going to regret them the same be it now or later when the game ends. There's no point in trying to forget about them for a little longer, specially when now is the time when you can do something about them.

Yeah, I know I may be the one who's actually wrong about Kirsche (even though I don't think I am, which is why I'm casing him), but regardless of who's right and who's wrong I think that's a very important thing to consider.

I don't think Refa not hammering confirms as town, I didn't think he could move his second vote?

I don't think Marth is scummy on not protecting Clarinets, I think his reasoning is fine because I was thinking the same and I targetted Clarinets either way (because from our interactions in the QT I felt like I had to push him to do and say stuff and he felt reluctant to talk).

Remember this? The code is encrypted in Vigenère with two different keys for extra security, because otherwise it could be broken more easily. I made it 14 characters long so that it would be as long as "post restrictor" but that's not what it says there.

Said keys are "thegayest" and "gay" but reversed and applied from the end, so actually "agy". There are online decoders for these so you can look that up and decode it so that you know that I'm not making up the final message:

"PRESTLOVERIZER"

So that is my role. I can post restrict people, which is the part you already know, and if 3 separate people don't break the post restrictions I gave them I can loverize two players in the game. It's actually called matchmaker in my PM but whatever.

I hope now it's obvious why I wanted to use all my shots as soon as possible and why I gave very simple PRs overall, even if Elieson still managed to screw them up repeatedly. And it's not only because loverizer is my favourite role ever and I'm so happy to have rolled it, but mostly because it's quite powerful.

In case you couldn't tell, I'm leaving both the part of whether I got the shot or not and the part of when it takes effect (either higher or lower priority than kills) ambiguous on purpose, so that scum have to WIFOM hard who they have to kill and so that they make suboptimal decisions. Have fun, maflords <3

This is very important: In case two people are indeed loverized and they survive through the night, they shouldn't claim who they are in thread inmediately, so that scum don't get an advantage out of that. Very unlikely but worth mentioning.

@Refa: I knew you were doing that (took me a while to realize, but yeah).

Can somebody translate this to English for me, because most of this just went right over my head.

[CT075]

nnnnnnnngh i'll drop marth because it's not going to go anywhere

RANDA HBU

tbh i don't think refa's supposed vote means much because for all we know the scumteam just wasn't all on at once (did anybody else say this yet?)

i guess it might mean something for refa??? has the ghostvote shown up in votals before?

[Randa]

Honestly, I'd never lynch SB if he wasn't copped so I GUESS it wasn't a horrible outcome (but it demotivated me).

Marth, pushing for NL would be a good move as scum because it'd get rid of one of the possible mislynches (assuming I'm town...wait, you don't even have to assume anymore). I agree w/it being a weird move to make as scum, but it's not really part of the reason that I'm feeling better about Kirsche.

Who do you think makes the most sense as scum out of your four scumreads? Like...I definitely agree w/the Elieson one (dunno why I gave him a pass for that), ditto on the Randa one, and I think you brought up good points on Boron/kirsche but not sure which one is stronger out of the two.

Sorry ignore the above about not understanding the difference this post explains it a bit better. Doesn't change the question about how it effects the reads though.

[Randa]

idk about Marth doc'ing Refa I mean did anybody think scum would kill the cop of questionable sanity. I mean personally I would've killed somebody like me, Kirsche, or mitskui maybe Eli just to create more confusion and throw off everybody's reads in a situation where town has to be certain and correct if we wanna win. I mean I think Marth is probably scum just off of PoE at this point, but I don't think we should be voting anybody until we're certain.

[Randa]

Ok since nobody wants to talk to me I'm gonna go to sleep.

[Bluedoom]

No

You haven't even told us who you think is the scum team.

[Bluedoom]

After much thinking, I feel we should lynch one of Boron/Kirsche today. They just have these interactions that eerily feel like they're scumbuddies.

Like, Boron has been casing inactives/people lacking content the entire game: Izhuark, Clarinets, Randa sort-of (it really started picking up on towards the end of D4) and kirsche rightfully called her out on it back in D1. But he drops his case on her because her night action and role assignment are townie. HOWEVER, since the comparison cop scan was between a townie and an SK, that doesn't clear her. Furthermore, the role assignment isn't necessarily a town choice, she was limited in the roles she could assign anyway and the players involved too. So that shouldn't be a point in favor of her but even if it is, how is it strong enough to drop your case on her? She could just easily do it for towncred? It makes sense to not case her on D2/3, but why not on D4?

And he instead uses silly gutread meta cases on Refa and Mitsuki throughout D4. Like, why is Boron town again?

Boron on the other hand has had confrontations with kirsche which have amounted to nothing. They seem like pointless confrontations when it comes to scum hunting, and at one point she has a 'not-so-good' feeling on kirsche but never explains why this is. Like, why does she feel that kirsche's actions may come from scum?(or is 'not-so-good' different from scummy anyway?)

Later she gives him a pass because she thinks she just dislikes his playstyle. Can't this apply to Izhuark too? Maybe Izhuark isn't a confident mafia player and struggles to get reads? He just doesn't feel like he's worth it so he gives up? It feels like she's applying double standards here.

I don't think their frustrations with each other are staged though because I bet they actually dislike each others' play styles anyway. But the way they've handled their reads on each other is bad. Actually, the way they've handled their reads in general, is scummy AF, because they have no logical progression.

Kirsche just picks people to case on and then goes with it.

Boron just randomly states reads but every time I'm reading her posts I'm like "But why?"

[Bluedoom]

Did you know that Anime made its television debute in the US in 1963, by way of Astro Boy?

mybad, i misinterpreted "not scumreading" as "townreading"

I think you're entirely incorrect because boron's d1 was fantastic because this is a good post, (outlining several reads and calls out people for doing bad/scummy things), this post is great justification to maintain a case, this post outlines an incredible stance on subjectively reading izhuark as scum!izhuark, followed up here.

tl;dr mitsuki I'm reading your posts and i am 100% disagreeing with them, in the context of you suspecting boron for what you consider to be good reasons.

Oh yeah this post makes me think that, regardless of where out conclusions end up today, Eli and Boron are of opposite alignments.

Like, I don't ever remember Eli actually hard defending his buddies with such confidence.

How likely is Eli bussing Randa, btw?

[Bluedoom]

Yeah if we can figure that out then its game over for the mafia hehe

[Refa]

I'm coasting because my opinions haven't changed. Deciding between Randa and Elieson is REALLY HARD, though. Like Marth, I can get where you're coming from WRT who we should lynch today (I'd probably lynch Kirsche over Boron just because it'd clear Mitsuki) but this is probably something we should talk about while like "all of us" are still able too. I don't remember what Elie has done today but Randa is fluctuating between "wow, scum would never say this" and "what the hell, there's no town thought process here whatsoever". Like, take a look at who he mentions to kill. He literally mentions like most of the players. Okay, this really bothers me but it's not because I think "wow, this is scummy" by itself but moreso his thought process. It shows that he has literally no scumreads in MYLO and ugh I can't see town being like "all of these players are viable night kill targets despite the fact that FMPOV some of them ARE SCUM".

[Refa]

Oh yeah this post makes me think that, regardless of where out conclusions end up today, Eli and Boron are of opposite alignments.

Like, I don't ever remember Eli actually hard defending his buddies with such confidence.

How likely is Eli bussing Randa, btw?

I don't remember Elie's meta but I'd say that means that they're not SCUMBUDDIES (yeah, POE would suggest opposite alignments but it's an assumption nonetheless) just because I can't see scum in general hard defending their buddy with such conviction (e.g. once I hard defended Blitz as scumbuddies and I was more like "well, he wouldn't do this as scum" rather than being "this is obviously town"). Uh...Elie bussing Randa would explain that weird voteswitch, but I haven't really thought about it or contextualized their actions in such a way.

[Refa]

Actually, I'd bet it's more likely to be Kirsche/Boron/Randa over Kirsche/Elie/Randa. It's not because Elie has been tunneling on Randa but moreso what you said about Kirsche and Boron's interactions looks a lot worse to me than whatever Elie and Randa have been doing.

[Bluedoom]

Well Refa unfortunately the other 3 people on my scumlist are avoiding action in thread, its not just Randa lol.

Nah, what I mean is, if you're sure that there is only ONE scum between Elieson and Randa, then we should lynch Boron and Kirsche anyway. FYPOV that'd make sense.

I'm just wondering if Eli is playing that weird game where he's bussing his buddy so hard but not doing anything else in the game.

I'd really love it if the people in my scumlist would answer my questions though. Its like my slot was cased for inactivity but when its finally active everyone ignores it. ;-;

[Refa]

The four people I suspect of being scum are Kirsche, Boron, Elieson, and Randa. I just can't see Mitsuki, Marthipan, or Cam being scum at this point. Anyways, these are the combinations of them (Uh, let me know if I missed one because I feel like I might have).

Kirsche/Boron/Elie- Doesn't make sense due to Boron/Elie not making sense together as scumbuddies

Kirsche/Boron/Randa- What I'm buying.

Kirsche/Elie/Randa- It's possible but Elie/Randa's interactions aren't AS TELLING as Kirsche/Boron's. This is the one I'm like, the most worried that I'm wrong about though.

Boron/Elie/Randa- Ditto on the first one

Basically I think there's one scum between Boron and Elie, not Elie and Randa.

[Refa]

tbh i don't think refa's supposed vote means much because for all we know the scumteam just wasn't all on at once (did anybody else say this yet?)

i guess it might mean something for refa??? has the ghostvote shown up in votals before?

idk what you're talking about here. the facts are that i'm NOT confirmed town (yeah, i fucked up) but that izhuark/marthipan cannot be town if i'm scum (otherwise i would have hammered the slot yesterday).

[Refa]

Also pretty sure my ghost vote showed up on uh at least one of the votals, you can go check them out (although Prims fucked up because on like Day 2/3 it showed Elie having a ghost vote despite me never targeting him). Anyways, getting tired of this song and dance. Sorry if I'm wrong.

##Vote: Executive kirsche

[Bluedoom]

Yeah, you haven't missed any possibilities.

[Mitsuki]

Are we lynching Kirsche??? And people have the same scumreads as me for once??? HOLY SHIT

I will definitely vote there, just not yet. I need to recheck my read on Boron.

Remember to lynch guys, otherwise it will be universal loss. I'd assume people can consolidate but after seeing D4 I'm not so sure about it.

also lol @Kirsche saying that the hook is more powerful than the loverizer in my role. Sure man, a hook that is probably not even going to take place is OP! And a loverizer that may give town another mislynch isn't. That sure is how it works.

It's time to face it, I am townreading both Randa and Elieson, and I don't know what to do about it.

[Bluedoom]

I too would vote kirsche but I'd like my scumreads to actually answer my questions instead of avoiding the thread or possibly ignoring me. The points are totally valid and need answers.

Please guys don't let me believe you're scum giving up, if you're town. I don't expect you to have a 101 statements or 1000 cases but I'm scumreading you lot because your actions are logically inconsistent according, if they're coming from a town mindset. They make perfect sense coming from scum.

Oh yeah I forgot to mention it, but Boron scumread Clarinets for pushing for a Refa lynch but didn't say anything about Kirsche doing the same. She should answer this.

@Mitsuki: Well Refa and I have posed a few questions and possibilities in the last couple of pages so you could check them out.

[Bluedoom]

lol why did I say according, whoops

[Zkirsche]

Oh boy I thought we were past this shit.

Boron's logic behind her role assignment is townie not just the assignment itself. I dropped her because casing someone for getting angry at inactives for that long is dumb and her new content was unobjectionable.

Mitsuki's fear mongering is really atrocious and I can't believe Refa of all people is overlooking it. He has to be town though, outside of a misplay. Unvote you fool.

[Zkirsche]

Man Kirsche you sure are INTERESTED in knowing about my role. I can explain it now, yeah. In my next post.

Not so sure about it but this looks like fearmongering to me.

It's ok if you're gutreading Kirsche as town (well, it sucks for me, but what can I do about it lol) but don't just assume he is because it's hard to admit you could have gone wrong. We all sucked this game, and sadly I'm pretty sure we're going to lose. But the mistakes are already written and you're going to regret them the same be it now or later when the game ends. There's no point in trying to forget about them for a little longer, specially when now is the time when you can do something about them.

Yeah, I know I may be the one who's actually wrong about Kirsche (even though I don't think I am, which is why I'm casing him), but regardless of who's right and who's wrong I think that's a very important thing to consider.

Quoting on a WiiU is a bitch but I need to point this out sooner rather than later. The first paragraph implies there is something wrong or unusual with calling out a scumread's role at *ylo (remember I thought yesterday was mylo). Even if you don't say it outright it affects people's opinions.

This is also bullshit, that statement is entirely null so this is either confirmation bias or scum fear mongering. Doesn't give me one or the other but it's plausible.

This last paragraph is the absolute worst. So much fearmongering. "guys remember you could be very wrong on kirsche, careful guys I think he's scum". "Now is the time to gang up on him, don't worry about regretting it later". The use of subtle psychological manipulation is apllause worthy but I'm not going without a fight.

Why is everyone givig Mitsuki a free pass on her role use? She says that her loverising could gain us a mislynch, but in reality isn't it more likely to get one of us killed? Why is a potential masshook less likely than a loveriser to buy us more time. It's very easy to come up with a post restriction noone will follow. E.g. post in code only, the only people who would follow that are likely mafia and you can publicly state that you want discussion andplan it out.

[Refa]

Who do you think is scum? Mitsuki/Elieson/Randa (I know you've explained your Mitsuki read in detail and the others are likely just POE but like some explanation there would be nice)?

What do you think about Marth's points against you? Especially regarding associative reads between you and Boron?

Okay, I do agree w/you on role usage in that a loverizer is more than likely going to be useful for scum...actually, that would explain why she targeted SB w/it (like, why else would she target someone who she is not scumreading and is not going to get killed as town). Wow, now I feel like a moron. Want an explanation for this, Mitsuki.

##Unvote