In which blah the Prussian blind reacts to FE Fates: Conquest

[blah the Prussian]

Conquest was really hurt by the split between the families, the want to create conflict between the two, and Revelation. The best way to write Conquest's story was to have Xander and the royal siblings to split away from Nohr, and try and lead a rebellion against Nohr after their declaration of war against Hoshido. Almost like a race to try and stop Garon before he can destroy Hoshido and get on the throne. You can still leave in the emotion of having to fight against some of the Hoshidan family since they still wouldnt be trusting of you, and would still see you as an enemy even though you and the others split away from Nohr. It would get rid of the problem of Xander being seen as a hypocrite since he would be the one leading the rebellion. You can get rid of the possession angle for Garon, and make him a villain with reasonable motivations. You wont have the problem of Corrin's family in Hoshido forgiving him even though they have every right not to. Actually you can do a "Forgiveness" angle correctly since you can write the siblings as not trusting Corrin and the Nohrian family, and still seeing them as the enemy, even though they are trying to help them.

Problem with that idea is its too similar to BIrthright's story, and it would get rid of all reference to Revelation, thus undoing everything else attached to Fates. So the thing I have come to terms with is Conquest and its characters were doomed to fail from the start because of how IS put this story together.

My idea for fixing Conquest's story is this: firstly, Garon is a good King who needs to conquer Hoshido to save his people,clue to the abundance of Hoshidan farms. Second, everything generally goes as it happened normally up until Chapter 12. What happens there is that Ryoma dies. This may seem sudden, but bear with me. Takumi Trump then becomes King of Hoshido. The Cheve rebellion happened because the Chevoise had a lot of surplus farmland that was being given to the rest of Nohr due to the famine. That makes the revolt much less one sided, but both sides still have legitimate arguments. So after the Cheve revolt gets crushed, we see Takumi accept the demonic possession, maybe after a chapter dealing with it, and he then goes on a monologue about he will destroy Nohr in revenge for his brother's death. The next Chapter is the Opera house, but with one big difference: Garon dies. Xander becomes King. Also, Iago and Hans don't exist, because fuck them. Instead of following Azura, the next chapter has Takumi Trump lead an assault on a Nohrian city. This time, though, he orders his men to massacre the Nohrian villagers. Seeing that peace might have been possible under Ryoma but not Takumi, Corrin and co. resolve to win the war. Hinoka, then, could be the Camus here. Takumi's character arc is him falling more and more into evil, but it is left ambiguous how much of it is possession and how much is him, similar to Macbeth. You fight Hinoka the same as before, and capture Sakura. For the love of God show Elise feeding Sakura. Hinoka is killed (yeah, I'll react to that later, and it won't be pretty) and when the Nohrians get into the inner sanctum of Shiragashi they find Takumi completely consumed by whatever possessed him. The theme of justice being an illusion and how it is a ruler's duty to do right by their people remains. After Takumi is defeated, Hoshido's farmlands end the famine in Nohr, and Nohr becomes prosperous, although Hoshido falls into poverty. Corrin wonders if he made the rut choice; Xander replies that what is the right choice is irrelevant, and that it is the duty of royalty to think not of what is right, but of what helps their people. Sakura is now a puppet Queen, and is deeply unpopular. Corrin realizes that there isn't always any answer at all to issues, and that someone will have to suffer. And that is how we end Conquest: not shitty edition. Also, Birthright would have Nohr's famine continue.

[The DanMan]

My idea for fixing Fates's story in it's near entirety: cut the 3rd route and anything to do with Valla.

Then there's no Slime Garon, no possessed Takumi, no Mikoto murder, no Chapter 15, no hypocritical Xander; you get the picture.

Then give Garon an actual semi-interesting character, flesh out the side kingdoms a bit for some actual political reasoning for going to them, make the Hoshidan siblings more antagonistic towards Corrin, and have the Nohrsibs call them out and "train" them a bit more.

[BruceLee]

My idea for fixing Conquest's story is this: firstly, Garon is a good King who needs to conquer Hoshido to save his people,clue to the abundance of Hoshidan farms. Second, everything generally goes as it happened normally up until Chapter 12. What happens there is that Ryoma dies. This may seem sudden, but bear with me. Takumi Trump then becomes King of Hoshido. The Cheve rebellion happened because the Chevoise had a lot of surplus farmland that was being given to the rest of Nohr due to the famine. That makes the revolt much less one sided, but both sides still have legitimate arguments. So after the Cheve revolt gets crushed, we see Takumi accept the demonic possession, maybe after a chapter dealing with it, and he then goes on a monologue about he will destroy Nohr in revenge for his brother's death. The next Chapter is the Opera house, but with one big difference: Garon dies. Xander becomes King. Also, Iago and Hans don't exist, because fuck them. Instead of following Azura, the next chapter has Takumi Trump lead an assault on a Nohrian city. This time, though, he orders his men to massacre the Nohrian villagers. Seeing that peace might have been possible under Ryoma but not Takumi, Corrin and co. resolve to win the war. Hinoka, then, could be the Camus here. Takumi's character arc is him falling more and more into evil, but it is left ambiguous how much of it is possession and how much is him, similar to Macbeth. You fight Hinoka the same as before, and capture Sakura. For the love of God show Elise feeding Sakura. Hinoka is killed (yeah, I'll react to that later, and it won't be pretty) and when the Nohrians get into the inner sanctum of Shiragashi they find Takumi completely consumed by whatever possessed him. The theme of justice being an illusion and how it is a ruler's duty to do right by their people remains. After Takumi is defeated, Hoshido's farmlands end the famine in Nohr, and Nohr becomes prosperous, although Hoshido falls into poverty. Corrin wonders if he made the rut choice; Xander replies that what is the right choice is irrelevant, and that it is the duty of royalty to think not of what is right, but of what helps their people. Sakura is now a puppet Queen, and is deeply unpopular. Corrin realizes that there isn't always any answer at all to issues, and that someone will have to suffer. And that is how we end Conquest: not shitty edition. Also, Birthright would have Nohr's famine continue.

While i think this sounds pretty good, much better than what we got, that means both routes have somewhat depressing endings. I don't think that's a good idea.

[blah the Prussian]

While i think this sounds pretty good, much better than what we got, that means both routes have somewhat depressing endings. I don't think that's a good idea.

I think, though, that that would build into a really good theme; no matter what you choose, you can't save everyone. A choice without consequences isn't a choice; you don't have to think before making it. BTW, Corrin should definitely know about the famine before he has to make the choice. I also dislike that there are only 2 countries here. One of the elements present in all the good FE stories is political intrigue. Speaking of shitty things about this game, though, let's talk about Chapter 24. I'm beginning to think that actual effort had to be put in to make the story this bad. The writers legitimately needed to sit down at a table and brainstorm ways to make the story as shit as humanly possible. That's the only explanation. This story is getting creatively bad. I see this Chapter, for example, and I think "wow, I honestly would never have thought that an organism with functioning brain cells could have thought of something so idiotic and audience insulting." It had to be intentional. This is a deliberate attempt at trolling! So, what makes Chapter 24 so bad story wise? Let me show you.

-Come on, Garon, I see that Action Replay! No one let you have a horse!

-I like the scene with Garon and the Nohrian army for the wrong reasons. I assume I'm supposed to feel foreboding, but instead I feel like a conquering badass! I was the one who beat the Hoshidans time and time again, I was the one who took their Great Wall, and I was the one who beat their pathetic Fabian Tactics. Now, my glorious army is marching through the Hoshidan Capitol, the people of Hoshido prostrate before me. That's another way the story would be better; make it outright Team Evil. Garon is going to conquer Hoshido because he doesn't like that every time he looks at his world map he sees it, and we, his faithful son, are going to help him. That would at least make sense.

-Seriously, these onlookers are fucking morons. I don't care how brave you are, you don't yell expletives at the guy being protected by the nice men with the swords! Do these morons have a death wish? How could they possibly think this situation would end up well for them. Now, once again, in my version this could be quite a good scene, as Corrin must defend himself from rioters in self defense.

-Sorry, Xander, but you're only allowed to say that justice can sometimes be sacrificed if you're actually fighting for a cause where you should sacrifice justice! I'm starting to really, really sympathize for all the hate Xander gets, and it's only slightly mitigated by the fact that Ryoma is just as stupid. You want evidence?

-Case in point. Ryoma sits on his ass meditating while his little sister protects him and his kingdom for him! Brother of the year, ladies and gentlemen! Now I can see even more why Corrin won't return to Hoshido! Add criminal negligence next to Ryoma's charge of Kill Stealing.

-Can I ask one question? What kind of Capitol city has a river running through it? This isn't a city, this is a park! I mean, okay, the Hoshidan Capitol could have a Central Park, but why go through it?

-For some ungodly reason, the game, just this once, makes the enemy notice Corrin and co. a turn in. Why?

-God damn it, Hinoka, this is the battle for the fate of Hoshido, not the olympics! Stay on your Pegasus!

-I also really love to imagine Hinoka shouting her lines across the entire map at Corrin, and her troops just looking at each other and shrugging. At least it would explain her voice.

-Real talk, here, I actually really enjoyed this map. Camilla and Beruka basically went on a turkey shoot, and we all had a gay old time. The menace of archers is greatly lowered when they can only go 3 spaces. Azalea was also quite easy to snipe. Also, a testament to how much of a beast my Camilla is: Azama got her with his hp halving staff and she just didn't give two fucks. Could Camilla be called Conquest's Oifey?

-You know, there really isn't anything preventing the Nohrian army from just going around Hinoka. The map is open. Just because some arbitrary gate exists doesn't mean you have to go through it.

-Hinoka, too, seems to be tragically ignorant of what generally happens to people when they find themselves in castles that just fell to the enemy. Sakura's just lucky I'm not playing Crusader Kings, or she'd be my concubine! Hmmm, a Crusader Kings Fire Emblem mod... that's actually a good idea!

-Holy shit. Thane, everyone, you were right. This is insulting to the intelligence of the player. Firstly: how does Hinoka manage to escape? The city has already fallen. Secondly: why does Corrin pretend to use his magic thingy just to have a bait and switch? Besides, there isn't actual suspense. I don't give a fuck if Corrin kills Hinoka here, he only spent 2 scenes total with her! Thirdly: Corrin has every right to kill Hinoka! She is an enemy combatant! Fourthly: Hinoka is way, way too fucking quick to forgive Corrin here. "You were on our side all along!"? The fuck is this shit! Fifth: It seems that the Corrin dick sucking brigade just got its first female Hoshidan! Another victory for diversity!

-Why does Corrin need proof that he killed Hinoka? He needed no such thing when it came to killing Takumi Trump. Also, why wasn't there a scene where Garon was like "oh Corrin you failed to kill Takumi Trump you failure!"

Well, next up is Ryoma. I'm going on strike if Corrin actually doesn't kill him like he promised Hinoka. So far this game is the most schizophrenic story I've ever seen. Sometimes it has the theme that a ruler needs to make sacrifices, sometimes it has the theme that love is da best! And it does a terrible job executing both. Ah well. I'm playing Radiant Historia after this to remind myself what a good story looks like.

[Thane]

-Can I ask one question? What kind of Capitol city has a river running through it? This isn't a city, this is a park! I mean, okay, the Hoshidan Capitol could have a Central Park, but why go through it?

Budapest comes to mind.

-Holy shit. Thane, everyone, you were right. This is insulting to the intelligence of the player. Firstly: how does Hinoka manage to escape? The city has already fallen. Secondly: why does Corrin pretend to use his magic thingy just to have a bait and switch? Besides, there isn't actual suspense. I don't give a fuck if Corrin kills Hinoka here, he only spent 2 scenes total with her! Thirdly: Corrin has every right to kill Hinoka! She is an enemy combatant! Fourthly: Hinoka is way, way too fucking quick to forgive Corrin here. "You were on our side all along!"? The fuck is this shit! Fifth: It seems that the Corrin dick sucking brigade just got its first female Hoshidan! Another victory for diversity!

"You were on our side all along! Forget the armies currently marching through my country and the people dying all around me! Let's ask brother dearest if he can lay down his weapons. Also, who's Takumi?"

[blah the Prussian]

Budapest comes to mind.

"You were on our side all along! Forget the armies currently marching through my country and the people dying all around me! Let's ask brother dearest if he can lay down his weapons. Also, who's Takumi?"

...conceded. I was more talking about the whole greenery thing.

[Water Mage]

-Can I ask one question? What kind of Capitol city has a river running through it? This isn't a city, this is a park! I mean, okay, the Hoshidan Capitol could have a Central Park, but why go through it?

This is a list of capital cities that have rivers running throught them:

https://sites.google.com/site/worldfactsinc/rivers-of-the-world-s-capital-cities

Anyway, back on topic, while I don't have a lot of issues with Conquest's story (There are things that I greatly about it, but they are few), I will admit that part were Hinoka is spared was silly.

Maybe if they gave you a choice to spare or kill Hinoka, like they did with Shura, the scene would be more interesting.

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

I think, though, that that would build into a really good theme; no matter what you choose, you can't save everyone. A choice without consequences isn't a choice; you don't have to think before making it. BTW, Corrin should definitely know about the famine before he has to make the choice. I also dislike that there are only 2 countries here. One of the elements present in all the good FE stories is political intrigue. Speaking of shitty things about this game, though, let's talk about Chapter 24. I'm beginning to think that actual effort had to be put in to make the story this bad. The writers legitimately needed to sit down at a table and brainstorm ways to make the story as shit as humanly possible. That's the only explanation. This story is getting creatively bad. I see this Chapter, for example, and I think "wow, I honestly would never have thought that an organism with functioning brain cells could have thought of something so idiotic and audience insulting." It had to be intentional. This is a deliberate attempt at trolling! So, what makes Chapter 24 so bad story wise? Let me show you.

Well, in way, both paths are kinda like that. In Conquest, you can't save everyone, because Garon is a massive dick and orders Hans to go around murdering everything that Corrin doesn't. In Birthright, you can't save everyone, so Corrin doesn't even try and cuts a bloody swath through everything and no one cares because designated good guys.

Well, technically there are more countries, but the story doesn't really do much with them aside from make them incidental locations. Both Hoshido and Nohr do bad things in Cykensia that should have had political repercussions, but it's never mentioned again. Nohr does bad things in Izumo. Never mentioned again. Mokushu is making a power grab and... gets completely shut down in a single chapter. The Wind Tribe is apparently their own thing, but their entire purpose of existence is so Fuga can troll Corrin. The Kitsune are their own thing, but they only show up for one chapter so they can get slaughtered by their own stupidity. They're all there, with the potential for whatever, but they're all stagnant.

-I like the scene with Garon and the Nohrian army for the wrong reasons. I assume I'm supposed to feel foreboding, but instead I feel like a conquering badass! I was the one who beat the Hoshidans time and time again, I was the one who took their Great Wall, and I was the one who beat their pathetic Fabian Tactics. Now, my glorious army is marching through the Hoshidan Capitol, the people of Hoshido prostrate before me. That's another way the story would be better; make it outright Team Evil. Garon is going to conquer Hoshido because he doesn't like that every time he looks at his world map he sees it, and we, his faithful son, are going to help him. That would at least make sense.

I really wish Corrin had kept the mask of becoming like Garon going for more than one chapter. It would at least allowed Corrin to have to do evil things while still remaining sympathetic. Instead, the story goes along as though Corrin never even did that scene with Corrin even considering stepping in here.

-Sorry, Xander, but you're only allowed to say that justice can sometimes be sacrificed if you're actually fighting for a cause where you should sacrifice justice! I'm starting to really, really sympathize for all the hate Xander gets, and it's only slightly mitigated by the fact that Ryoma is just as stupid. You want evidence?

Justice is an illusion because in the end, you need to throw everyone else under the bus to protect your family.

-Holy shit. Thane, everyone, you were right. This is insulting to the intelligence of the player. Firstly: how does Hinoka manage to escape? The city has already fallen. Secondly: why does Corrin pretend to use his magic thingy just to have a bait and switch? Besides, there isn't actual suspense. I don't give a fuck if Corrin kills Hinoka here, he only spent 2 scenes total with her! Thirdly: Corrin has every right to kill Hinoka! She is an enemy combatant! Fourthly: Hinoka is way, way too fucking quick to forgive Corrin here. "You were on our side all along!"? The fuck is this shit! Fifth: It seems that the Corrin dick sucking brigade just got its first female Hoshidan! Another victory for diversity!

Heh, the dick sucking here ain't anything next to Birthright.

-Why does Corrin need proof that he killed Hinoka? He needed no such thing when it came to killing Takumi Trump. Also, why wasn't there a scene where Garon was like "oh Corrin you failed to kill Takumi Trump you failure!"

Well, next up is Ryoma. I'm going on strike if Corrin actually doesn't kill him like he promised Hinoka. So far this game is the most schizophrenic story I've ever seen. Sometimes it has the theme that a ruler needs to make sacrifices, sometimes it has the theme that love is da best! And it does a terrible job executing both. Ah well. I'm playing Radiant Historia after this to remind myself what a good story looks like.

To be fair to Garon here, it's been established that not only is he inconsistent, but he's certified insane. It's mostly Iago trying to do whatever while Garon cackles evilly to himself (even if Garon sometimes does give orders).

Y'know, now that you mention that, maybe it is at least a bit about a good ruler having to make sacrifices. Corrin is largely unwilling to make sacrifices, therefore, everything just repeatedly gets even worse as a consequence.

[The DanMan]

The only siblings that should have been spared on either route is the younger sisters. There's no reason for the others to live, as they're active combatants.

And we continue to see that Hinoka wasn't meant to be in the game in the first place.

[saisymbolic]

I honestly thought that was the whole theme and premise of Fates and the choices: make your decision and face the consequences therein.

My idea for fixing Conquest's story is this: firstly, Garon is a good King who needs to conquer Hoshido to save his people,clue to the abundance of Hoshidan farms. Second, everything generally goes as it happened normally up until Chapter 12. What happens there is that Ryoma dies. This may seem sudden, but bear with me. Takumi Trump then becomes King of Hoshido. The Cheve rebellion happened because the Chevoise had a lot of surplus farmland that was being given to the rest of Nohr due to the famine. That makes the revolt much less one sided, but both sides still have legitimate arguments. So after the Cheve revolt gets crushed, we see Takumi accept the demonic possession, maybe after a chapter dealing with it, and he then goes on a monologue about he will destroy Nohr in revenge for his brother's death. The next Chapter is the Opera house, but with one big difference: Garon dies. Xander becomes King. Also, Iago and Hans don't exist, because fuck them. Instead of following Azura, the next chapter has Takumi Trump lead an assault on a Nohrian city. This time, though, he orders his men to massacre the Nohrian villagers. Seeing that peace might have been possible under Ryoma but not Takumi, Corrin and co. resolve to win the war. Hinoka, then, could be the Camus here. Takumi's character arc is him falling more and more into evil, but it is left ambiguous how much of it is possession and how much is him, similar to Macbeth. You fight Hinoka the same as before, and capture Sakura. For the love of God show Elise feeding Sakura. Hinoka is killed (yeah, I'll react to that later, and it won't be pretty) and when the Nohrians get into the inner sanctum of Shiragashi they find Takumi completely consumed by whatever possessed him. The theme of justice being an illusion and how it is a ruler's duty to do right by their people remains. After Takumi is defeated, Hoshido's farmlands end the famine in Nohr, and Nohr becomes prosperous, although Hoshido falls into poverty. Corrin wonders if he made the rut choice; Xander replies that what is the right choice is irrelevant, and that it is the duty of royalty to think not of what is right, but of what helps their people. Sakura is now a puppet Queen, and is deeply unpopular. Corrin realizes that there isn't always any answer at all to issues, and that someone will have to suffer. And that is how we end Conquest: not shitty edition. Also, Birthright would have Nohr's famine continue.

I like this...but I still want Sumeragi alive and the two kings representing the extreme Law and Chaos factions from the SMT series.

Then, you can get rewarded with nothing but the most maximum of angst and despair no matter what you do but especially if you choose the neutral path.

Edited April 25, 2016 by SaiSymbolic

[blah the Prussian]

I honestly thought that was the whole theme and premise of Fates and the choices: make your decision and face the consequences therein.

I like this...but I still want Sumeragi alive and the two kings representing the extreme Law and Chaos factions from the SMT series.

Then, you can get rewarded with nothing but the most maximum of angst and despair no matter what you do but especially if you choose the neutral path.

I would say that the neutral path should be the one where you have to fight both and kill both your families and at the end the game is like "don't be a fucking pussy, go back there and make a choice". On the one hand from a storytelling perspective there should be no third route, but otoh this IS a new FE game. Maybe the maps could be incorporated into the other routes? Basically, I hate the idea that there is one option in a situation like this that results in a golden ending. ,aye it's because this reminds me of a bunch of historical issues that were only really resolved after outright ethnic cleansing, but I think issues like a rivalry between kingdoms deserve more respect.

[Truthblade]

Well, next up is Ryoma. I'm going on strike if Corrin actually doesn't kill him like he promised Hinoka. So far this game is the most schizophrenic story I've ever seen. Sometimes it has the theme that a ruler needs to make sacrifices, sometimes it has the theme that love is da best! And it does a terrible job executing both. Ah well. I'm playing Radiant Historia after this to remind myself what a good story looks like.

Well technically, HE didn't

.

[saisymbolic]

I would say that the neutral path should be the one where you have to fight both and kill both your families and at the end the game is like "don't be a fucking pussy, go back there and make a choice". On the one hand from a storytelling perspective there should be no third route, but otoh this IS a new FE game. Maybe the maps could be incorporated into the other routes? Basically, I hate the idea that there is one option in a situation like this that results in a golden ending. ,aye it's because this reminds me of a bunch of historical issues that were only really resolved after outright ethnic cleansing, but I think issues like a rivalry between kingdoms deserve more respect.

This is essentially my qualm with Revelation to begin with. The third path defeated the entire purpose of having to make a choice. You get all the characters and a happy ending. The premise of Fates was that you would have to reject one family for the other. Just from that, it is already expected that the endings for either of these tales would be one that is bittersweet or, at the very worse, a downer.

I mentioned SMT because I love that series because it seems like, no matter what path you take, the consequences of making that choice always outweighs the pros. Even the neutral path. In a similar way, I thought the story of Fates would have you make a choice but it would never be implied which choice was the "right" one. You would be left with a feeling of accomplishment but, in the very back of your mind, you would know that you didn't really win anything and you would question if your decision was the right one

I don't know.

[Namarid]

I honestly thought that was the whole theme and premise of Fates and the choices: make your decision and face the consequences therein.

Then, you can get rewarded with nothing but the most maximum of angst and despair no matter what you do but especially if you choose the neutral path.

I would say that the neutral path should be the one where you have to fight both and kill both your families and at the end the game is like "don't be a fucking pussy, go back there and make a choice".

You guys are just making me sad,making me wonder what could of been.

Maybe I'm some sadistic asshole, but I wouldn't of minded if the endgame was the slaughtering of either family. Killing Leo would of definitely produced some tears.

[Thane]

You guys are just making me sad,making me wonder what could of been.

Maybe I'm some sadistic asshole, but I wouldn't of minded if the endgame was the slaughtering of either family. Killing Leo would of definitely produced some tears.

Breath of Fire IV called, they want their ending back.

Seriously, I can't believe such a relatively unknown game from the 90's portrayed a scene of people reacting to someone dying better than any game I've ever seen since, I believe. It's the only one that really sticks out in my mind.

[Mackc2]

-I like the scene with Garon and the Nohrian army for the wrong reasons. I assume I'm supposed to feel foreboding, but instead I feel like a conquering badass! I was the one who beat the Hoshidans time and time again, I was the one who took their Great Wall, and I was the one who beat their pathetic Fabian Tactics. Now, my glorious army is marching through the Hoshidan Capitol, the people of Hoshido prostrate before me. That's another way the story would be better; make it outright Team Evil. Garon is going to conquer Hoshido because he doesn't like that every time he looks at his world map he sees it, and we, his faithful son, are going to help him. That would at least make sense.

I would totally buy that team villains for the sake of being vilains all the way killing hosidans for the glory of nohr. I would also love it if the third route wasn't joining the families but killing both, though I can see no justified way they could ever have done that especially with corrin how he is all I wont kill my siblings and all.

Edited April 25, 2016 by Mackc2

[Zerosabers]

-I like the scene with Garon and the Nohrian army for the wrong reasons. I assume I'm supposed to feel foreboding, but instead I feel like a conquering badass! I was the one who beat the Hoshidans time and time again, I was the one who took their Great Wall, and I was the one who beat their pathetic Fabian Tactics. Now, my glorious army is marching through the Hoshidan Capitol, the people of Hoshido prostrate before me. That's another way the story would be better; make it outright Team Evil. Garon is going to conquer Hoshido because he doesn't like that every time he looks at his world map he sees it, and we, his faithful son, are going to help him. That would at least make sense.

We should get a chapter 23x where we massacre all the pathetic civilians who kept insulting us.

That scene makes me really wish Corrin was actually evil and was only going along with Azura's stupid ass plan so they could rule two kingdoms at once. You know like maybe some kinda conquest?

[Kuroi Tsubasa Tenshi]

This is essentially my qualm with Revelation to begin with. The third path defeated the entire purpose of having to make a choice. You get all the characters and a happy ending. The premise of Fates was that you would have to reject one family for the other. Just from that, it is already expected that the endings for either of these tales would be one that is bittersweet or, at the very worse, a downer.

I mentioned SMT because I love that series because it seems like, no matter what path you take, the consequences of making that choice always outweighs the pros. Even the neutral path. In a similar way, I thought the story of Fates would have you make a choice but it would never be implied which choice was the "right" one. You would be left with a feeling of accomplishment but, in the very back of your mind, you would know that you didn't really win anything and you would question if your decision was the right one

I don't know.

I feel like maybe it should really be the other way around

(and done without the story forcefully declaring "and then everything was better because I said so").

That is, discounting a third route, both routes should feel like they were barely worth it. That what they sacrificed and fought for earned something significant. Outside of the aforementioned, Conquest more or less feels the way you're talking about and Birthright seems to be headed in the same direction. The story doesn't really have a satisfying outcome, so it feels pointless, with the only accomplishment really coming from the gameplay. Ending both paths in more lost than gained wouldn't make me wonder if either were the right choice so much as coming to the conclusion that there was no choice at all, since they both lead to the same dissatisfaction.

[Sunwoo]

Honestly, while I feel that the story does need a lot of improvement, I really don't think making Takumi the token evil sibling on the Hoshido side is the solution at all. At the very least, with the way the game sets up the Hoshidan family right now, I'm not okay with the only Hoshido sibling who's smart enough to distrust you and not be friendly to you immediately be the only aggressive, morally gray one. Takumi's like the only one who doesn't need to be any more gray than he already is.

Also, Hinoka just sucks in Conquest 24. Worst big sister ever.

[Lanko]

This will get better and better from now on.

I wonder if blah's sanity will resist until the end.

[Augestein]

While i think this sounds pretty good, much better than what we got, that means both routes have somewhat depressing endings. I don't think that's a good idea.

I think it's more fitting to the "Fates" part of this title. It's not really depressing. You still won, and you still saved your people. It's just the other team has to lose. Really, this is pretty much what happens in every Fire Emblem that you win... It's just that you know other people on the other end so it's... More personal.

[Truthblade]

Also, Hinoka just sucks in Conquest 24. Worst big sister ever.

I personally love to have a sister who keeps forgiving you so I can keep taking her candy and things without her knowing and getting in trouble.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Blade_of_Light

[saisymbolic]

I feel like maybe it should really be the other way around

(and done without the story forcefully declaring "and then everything was better because I said so").

That is, discounting a third route, both routes should feel like they were barely worth it. That what they sacrificed and fought for earned something significant. Outside of the aforementioned, Conquest more or less feels the way you're talking about and Birthright seems to be headed in the same direction. The story doesn't really have a satisfying outcome, so it feels pointless, with the only accomplishment really coming from the gameplay. Ending both paths in more lost than gained wouldn't make me wonder if either were the right choice so much as coming to the conclusion that there was no choice at all, since they both lead to the same dissatisfaction.

I see what you are saying.

But, the way I see it along with how it seemed Fates was going to be, I really didn't see a way where there wouldn't be some kind of doubt in the choice (so as to be an incentive to buy the other path).

[Sunwoo]

I personally love to have a sister who keeps forgiving you so I can keep taking her candy and things without her knowing and getting in trouble.

I know it's in strikethrough, but I have to answer this seriously anyway. Hinoka has two other younger siblings, whom she does not seem to give a fuck about to the point of not having a fast sibling support with either of them. She wanted to join Kamui to ask Ryouma to stop the war, and in the end of the chapter seems to forgive Kamui already and asks Ryouma to not hurt Kamui. Can we also add that Kamui's "dream" about being together as siblings is crap because as far as anyone in the plot knows one of said siblings may or may not be dead, and Hinoka ever even bothers to ask about him and only finds out that Sakura is alive because Camilla said so?

Hinoka just does not give a fuck.

Edited April 26, 2016 by Sunwoo

[Truthblade]

I know it's in strikethrough, but I have to answer this seriously anyway. Hinoka has two other siblings, whom she does not seem to give a fuck about to the point of not having a fast sibling support with either of them. She wanted to join Kamui to ask Ryouma to stop the war, and in the end of the chapter seems to forgive Kamui already and asks Ryouma to not hurt Kamui. Can we also add that Kamui's "dream" about being together as siblings is crap because as far as anyone in the plot knows one of said siblings may or may not be dead, and Hinoka ever even bothers to ask about him and only finds out that Sakura is alive because Camilla said so?

Hinoka just does not give a fuck.

I was just joking about how easily she forgave Corrin. But yeah, that's not pretty bright.