BBM Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Sorry Venasaur, voting for Bulbasaur is done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Lv.40 Sceptile with no EVs, IVs and nature change does 54.5% - 65.5% to a Lv.40 Claydol with the same restrictions with Leaf Blade. 2HKO at best and enough time for Light Screen to go up The same Sceptile does 74.8% - 89.4% to a Solrock with the same restrictions on the Pokemon (39% - 45.5% with Light Screen). Enough time for Flamethrower to do 55.9% - 66.1% to Sceptile in the sun. Sceptile flat out sucks against Solrock. Damage calcs were done here And what's special at Lv.20? It doesn't get any move at Lv.20. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Level 20 is when it starts becoming bad, a couple levels after evolving into Grovyle, and Bullet Seed's low BP starts becoming an issue. Alright, I was wrong, not OHKOs. Consider that any pokemon that comes with Sceptile that can also do similar damage to Claydol and outspeeds it can help. 60% damage against Claydol and 80% damage against Solrock while taking only 60% damage in the sun (same as Blaziken against Psychic, but without a Sunny Day setup requirement first) still makes it the best starter there. In fact, even with Light Screen up, Overgrow should allow it to 2HKO Solrock if it takes a Flamethrower first. If Sceptile flat out sucks against Tate+Liza, Blaziken doesn't even deserve to be on your team when you fight them. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 I was never saying that Blaziken should be used against Tate and Liza. I was saying that they both Blaziken and Sceptile suck against that gym. Not too sure where you got that from. Swampert probably does the best there imo, unless Sunny Day gets up. That's just a really hard gym to fight anyways, at least from my experiences. One thing I want to bring up that will be important later on with some Pokemon is the versions, which Venusaur's vote made apparent to me. Some Pokemon have more (Marill) or less (Mawile) in RS and Emerald. Further more, performance against Team Aqua and Magma can influence a Pokemon's performance (Treecko does better vs Aqua while Mudkip does better vs Magma). The availability thing concerns me most, as being available earlier on does make a Pokemon better, while the opposite is true for Pokemon that join later. I feel like something on versions needs to be somewhere in the rulings, because otherwise it'll become a problem down the road. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 One thing I want to bring up that will be important later on with some Pokemon is the versions, which Venusaur's vote made apparent to me. Some Pokemon have more (Marill) or less (Mawile) in RS and Emerald. Further more, performance against Team Aqua and Magma can influence a Pokemon's performance (Treecko does better vs Aqua while Mudkip does better vs Magma). The availability thing concerns me most, as being available earlier on does make a Pokemon better, while the opposite is true for Pokemon that join later. I feel like something on versions needs to be somewhere in the rulings, because otherwise it'll become a problem down the road. That's a pretty big point of contention - for example, isn't Mawile only available in Victory Road in Emerald? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 (edited) Meh, I guess take whichever game is best for it. I'll edit that into the rules. Or rather, Orange should, because I'm not managing the R/S/E thread and FR and LG are mostly the same. I've swept Tate+Liza with Sceptile and Mightyena so many times. >_> Edited June 16, 2012 by BigBangMeteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Venusaur Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Sorry Venasaur, voting for Bulbasaur is done. Oh, don't worry about that, I knew about that before posting. I thought I had put a little note in there about it, but I guess it got lost in my revision. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrashGordon94 Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Probably THE best Pokemon in the game, statswise! It might have difficulties but everything else has more difficulties. I guess I might be a little biased because my Ruby playthrough was a Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken solo and I didn't have too much trouble. 10/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bobflac Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 To be fair, Zapdos has SE STAB against the final evolution of all three starters, and can be caught after Fuschia. And that is why Zapdos is awesome. Along with 80 other reason. Squirtle. My first Pokemon ever. I could say many things about him, but everyone else summed it up 10/10 (9/10 for Surge and Erika with +1 bias.) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Ehhh, what's the stance on trade evolutions going to be? IMO, I think that trade evolutions should be counted, since they happen in game. As for the different Pokemon in R/S/E, I'll edit in the rules that some Pokemon's performance should be judged in the version they are most prominent in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 16, 2012 Share Posted June 16, 2012 Right, now I remember why I kept thinking Leaf Blade was a OHKO. Don't forget it has a high critical hit ratio. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 9.36 for Squirtle/Wartortle/Blastoise. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) Rules (adapted from Fire Emblem RTUs) - Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly. You can troll a bit, but no CATERPIE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10. +/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly. - Votes are made out of 10. You cannot rate a pokemon above 10 or below 0. - The rating topic will be updated whenever I feel like it, but I will try to allow at least 24 hours for each topic. They will generally be updated at around 10 PM EST. - A pokemon being inferior relative to another pokemon does not explicitly reduce their rating. - We are rating ingame performance only, up until the Elite 4 is beaten the first time. - Evolution lines get condensed, so treat Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venasaur all as one pokemon. Charmander/Charmeleon/Charizard: 7.8 Bulbasaur/Ivysaur/Venasaur: 8.25 Squirtle/Wartortle/Blastoise: 9.36 Uhhh... incredibly annoying to get to a Butterfree, and once it does, Confusion has some marginal utility against Brock... but not really because I'm pretty sure it gets OHKOd by Rock Tomb. Stats are quite bad and it doesn't get a STAB for a long time. Gust can sort of help against Eirika? Apparently, he can also Compoundeyes Sleep Powder and has a variety of TMs available. 3/10 Edited June 22, 2012 by BigBangMeteor Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Swordsalmon Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 CATERPIE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 CATERPIE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10 THAT VOTE IS TOTALLY GETTING ACCEPTED!!! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ema Skye Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Early game utility at best. Think of Butterfree/Beedrill/other early bugs as Jeigans, because their stats initially start of awesome but then everyone else catches up to them. Unlike in RBY, Butterfree can't even be used as utility vs Brock anymore. There isn't really any important fight where having a Butterfree matters. 2/10 - nice bulk early on, but it'll quickly get replaced Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shadow Mir Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) 4.5/10. It has Compoundeyes Sleep Powder going for it, and Confusion off a decent Sp. Atk stat packs quite a punch for a good while. Edited June 17, 2012 by Golden Cucco Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Ratings end here. I'm on the road right now, so I'll put up Mudkip's day soon. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Tepig was pretty good, but not something I call the best in history, it's a bit too slow for that. Did you mean Infernape? Anyways, on to Torchic, which was my first Hoenn Pokemon! It hasn't aged the best, thanks to Hoenn being full of water. It's great throughout the first half, and it really shines at Norman... but after that it's rough sailing for a while. Fortunately for it, it happens to do great in the Elite Four, dominating Sidney and Glacia. Too bad it can't learn Shadow Ball... 8/10 in Sapphire and Emerald, 8.5 in Ruby. I'm taking this as an 8.5. For future reference, please only have one score. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 Rules (adapted from Fire Emblem RTUs) - Votes need some explanation regarding their gameplay performance to be counted. If somebody else said what you want to already, quote them explicitly. You can troll a bit, but no WURMPLE HAS STRING SHOT 10/10. +/- ≤1 point extra regarding personality/appearance is encouraged, but no more. If you exercise your bias privileges, please do so explicitly. - Votes are made out of 10. You cannot rate a pokemon above 10 or below 0. - The rating topic will be updated whenever I feel like it, but I will try to allow at least 24 hours for each topic. They will generally be updated at around 10 PM CST. - A pokemon being inferior relative to another pokemon does not explicitly reduce their rating. - We are rating ingame performance only, up until the Elite 4 is beaten the first time. - Evolution lines get condensed, so treat Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile all as one pokemon. - Pokemon that evolve through trades are accounted for. - A Pokemon's performance is to be judged by the game they are most prominent in (Example: Zangoose is to be judged by Pokemon Ruby standards.). Treecko/Grovyle/Sceptile: 8.36 Torchic/Combusken/Blaziken: 9.00 My rating will come later. Sorry for the delay. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZemZem Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 3/10. At least it has Compoundeyes Sleep Powder going for it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sMjymZYfKFc 7/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 lol not enough Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BBM Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 This guy. Literally the only bad matchups he has all game are May's Grovyle and Wallace's Ludicolo. He is possibly the best starter (ingame) of all time. 10/10 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Vorena Posted June 17, 2012 Share Posted June 17, 2012 (edited) First off, nothing is getting done in the caterpie/metapod phases, but those are quick evolutions. There are worse pokemon stuck with a useless levels. Magikarp until level 20 or needing to force feed a feebas with beauty to make it evolve are good examples. Three levels between evolutions and at such a low level makes caterpie and metapod non-existent as evolutions. With butterfree, it is learning a nice special attack move right off the bad which in early game is difficult to protect against since most pokemon will have higher defence or only defence attacks. Hitting special defence is rather useful. Butterfree also carries a nice set of resistances with a bug/flying combination. Yes, it loses pretty badly to fire, rock, and flying. Having access to stun spore and 100% sleep powder is also very handy. Its lacking in absolute raw power, but it can find its niches such as against fighting types (not packing rock moves) or grass types. So, 7/10 It should be 8/10 because of that awesome video. Edited June 17, 2012 by Eryth Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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