Mr. R's Tier List Now including Abadango's (Smash 4).

[Jedi]

Mr. R is a highly respected Sheik player in the community and also if I recall based this list less on results and more so how he feels everyone is dependent more on match ups. Subject to change as he said

https://twitter.com/Mr_RSmash/status/731340953424822272

Lets discuss.

Edited May 18, 2016 by Jedi

[Zera]

That is a nice tier list.

[Reality]

I'm mostly fine with the A and S ranks.

Ness, Captain Falcon, Yoshi, and to a lesser extent peach/pit look really silly next to some of those guys. I feel like the Mr. R might have took the performance in the vs Sheik matchup (or vs all S tier matchups) for the B-C rank more than tour results.

Also that's the highest rated I've seen DDD ever, but I honestly kind of see D-F (or D-H on some lists) as a single group so it doesn't bother me.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Reality

[Jedi]

I'm mostly fine with the A and S ranks.

Ness, Captain Falcon, Yoshi, and to a lesser extent peach/pit look really silly next to some of those guys. I feel like the Mr. R might have took the performance in the vs Sheik matchup for the B-C rank more than tour results.

Also that's the highest rated I've seen DDD ever, but I honestly kind of see D-F (or D-H on some lists) as a single group so it doesn't bother me.

He might have yeah, I guess its just at the end of the day it shows how overall balanced the game is when like all the top players disagree with each other on like almost every placement lol.

Because ZeRo doesn't agree with this list at all

[Jiac]

I think Mr. R's tier list is fairly accurate in my sense of relativity with the characters.

His high/top tiers are solid. I don't have much questions for it.

I think he did a great job in ranking the lower tier characters. Albeit Samus and Bowser Jr. aren't as bad as his tier placement suggests.

However, I think his mid tier is a bit of a mess. I feel Pikachu, Ness and Link are rated too low. Pikachu because of his frame data and tools, Ness because of his tools, and Link because of the power of his zone tools and his overall strength.

Though, I do feel he rated Bowser too high. Bowser has his combo throw yes, and the early kill potential. But, he still has his problems with landing and getting punished for tiny mistakes in the neutral because of his overall lag.

There are several small changes I'd make to his mid-tier, but overall his tier list I think is super solid.

[Ken Masters]

I highly disagree.

I know and respect Mr. R, and I'm aware he's a highly "logical" player, but I feel he might have based this on his own experience with matchups, instead of using more globalized data. That's great, I mean, we all have a personal tierlist based on our experience playing, and they are amazing... for you. In your context. Not as a globalized idea, because your gamestyle and personal quirks will affect the way you judge.

More specifically, Bayonetta is without a doubt the best character. I would almost put her on a tier of its own!

Rosalina and Sheik should change places, and so should Meta Knight and Ryu. ZSS should change spots with Diddy.

I don't feel like debating the other spots, because while I love L-Tiers, you never see them in tournaments (sorry dorf ;_;)

But still. great for him! It helps to share how he sees the game, and how he plays it

Edited May 15, 2016 by Ken Masters

[Jedi]

More specifically, Bayonetta is without a doubt the best character. I would almost put her on a tier of its own!

More and more counter plays are popping up, people have even discovered her kill combos can be SDI'd out of, I think we vastly overrated her at launch

Tiers are made by the players, theres some people who just don't have enough data in high stakes play (Such as one of the characters i'm trying to play as and am having fun with, Roy), maybe when I go to another tourney I'll shift around between Roy, Cloud and Ike just to throw people off

Edited May 15, 2016 by Jedi

[The DanMan]

Huh. Considering the hyping up he was getting, I was expecting Ike to end up upper-mid/high instead of his all-too-familiar lower-mid. He got a similiar spot on the first official Smashboards tier list, but I (and several others) blamed that on Japanese bias against him due to different meta games.

To me, Ryu just feels more clunky and limited than Bayonetta, so I can understand him not being top tier.

Cloud does seem just a little too good; he's good in casual level play, he's good in mid-level play, and he's good in high-level play. The "nerfs" were nothing; I honestly think a reverse Ike situation should happen if there's another patch (pretty much make the whole character slightly laggier and less powerful).

I'm surprised Grennerfed was labeled high tier; the only place he's really used is Japan.

Unlike the Smashboards tier list, Zelda tier is no longer a thing.

Overall, this is interesting. Looking forward to the second SSB4BR one in however many months.

Edited May 15, 2016 by The DanMan

[euklyd]

Bayonetta has losing matchups. She's by no means

More specifically, Bayonetta is without a doubt the best character. I would almost put her on a tier of its own!

Sheik had the tools to excel at all parts of the game, and no losing matchups; Bayonetta does not. And even then, I don't think Sheik was good enough to be in a tier of her own.

Also Diddy is really good in this patch; his worst matchups are far less of an issue, and he has good matchups with a lot of the relevant top tiers (most notably Bayo).

Actually, he's always been really good. People were overreacting a LOT about his nerfs.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Euklyd

[Anacybele]

Ike is far too low and Marth is far too high. And the latter is definitely not better than the former. In fact, doesn't the majority agree that Ike is possibly the best of the FE cast except maybe Corrin?

Otherwise, that's an okay list to me, especially given that this is the highest I've seen Luigi placed since his S tier days.

EDIT: I just noticed the Mii fighters are missing from this one just like Jedi's list. That's not cool at all. >.>

Edited May 15, 2016 by Anacybele

[Ema Skye]

I think we vastly overrated her at launch

lmao

People thought launch Bayo was bad.

They looked at her 9-frame jab and her slow shield and airdodge and thought she might be midtier at best.

[Jedi]

lmao

People thought launch Bayo was bad.

They looked at her 9-frame jab and her slow shield and airdodge and thought she might be midtier at best.

And then people playtested her, and found her to be really good and everyone lost it, but she hasn't had nearly as solid as results as people figured she would, other than the Major win in Japan.

The compeitive community both underestimated and overestimated her in like minutes.

Now we know she's solid, just not AS dominating as we thought she'd be.

[Refa]

She's generally (always?) considered S tier with a relatively underdeveloped meta compared to the other top tiers. That's a bit more than just solid.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Refa

[Jedi]

She's generally (always?) considered S tier with a relatively underdeveloped meta compared to the other top tiers. That's a bit more than just solid.

Pardon me for understating it

[Refa]

Well, you were right about the second part at least!

[Jedi]

Abadango (The pro Mewtwo who took Pound among other things)

Has made a list of his own.

[Elieson]

Isn't abadango the PacMan guy?

I'm surprised to see the Armpits so high, in particular, Pit > Dark Pit. Other than that, looks about typical

[Jedi]

Isn't abadango the PacMan guy?

I'm surprised to see the Armpits so high, in particular, Pit > Dark Pit. Other than that, looks about typical

He was awhile back.

->Says it looks typical when Ness is in Mid and Ike is in Low, despite other peoples opinions on them, among other things

Edited May 18, 2016 by Jedi

[Elieson]

He was awhile back.

->Says it looks typical when Ness is in Mid and Ike is in Low, despite other peoples opinions on them, among other things

I don't think Ike is that great, I think Ness is easy to get around and I think Megaman's rather good.

>NotAHardcore

[Comet]

Isn't abadango the PacMan guy?

I'm surprised to see the Armpits so high, in particular, Pit > Dark Pit. Other than that, looks about typical

"no order, don't complain"

it's good. i'm sad about sheik's latest nerfs again now...

[Ken Masters]

See? Now that's a correct placement for Sheik

Edited May 18, 2016 by Ken Masters

[Jedi]

"no order, don't complain"

it's good. i'm sad about sheik's latest nerfs again now...

I feel ya, they were largely unneeded since she takes skill to play properly.

[Ken Masters]

I feel ya, they were largely unneeded since she takes skill to play properly.

I digress.

While it's true that it takes a humongous amount of skill to play it properly on a high level competition, in a For Glory match it's not that hard to pull off some serious combos with little to no effort. In fact, I have 0-to-death people by pressing buttons. Literally throwing out attacks like d-air and f-air! I believe the only reason she's not played much on the low level is because Sheik is, simply put, a boring character for the mayority of players.

Taking out Sheik's 50/50 combo was the right call.

I do belive the needle nerfs were a little bit overkill

[Jedi]

I digress.

While it's true that it takes a humongous amount of skill to play it properly on a high level competition, in a For Glory match it's not that hard to pull off some serious combos with little to no effort. In fact, I have 0-to-death people by pressing buttons. Literally throwing out attacks like d-air and f-air! I believe the only reason she's not played much on the low level is because Sheik is, simply put, a boring character for the mayority of players.

Taking out Sheik's 50/50 combo was the right call.

I do belive the needle nerfs were a little bit overkill

I don't think taking out the 50/50 was warranted at all, considering now it makes Sheik players have to work even harder for a kill, funny enough I think we are reverse in this, because I think nerfing the needles was a proper way to nerf her but taking the 50/50 was just dumb. Because it was a reward at higher %'s now Sheik has barely anything to reward her damage racking with.

Also using FG as an example isn't exactly the best evidence for something.

Edited May 19, 2016 by Jedi

[Ken Masters]

I don't think taking out the 50/50 was warranted at all, considering now it makes Sheik players have to work even harder for a kill, funny enough I think we are reverse in this, because I think nerfing the needles was a proper way to nerf her but taking the 50/50 was just dumb.

Also using FG as an example isn't exactly the best evidence for something.

Haha, true! I got carried away while I was typing that and forgot one more point. Nintendo deals Nerf and Buffs with the low level competition in mind. They have been more than indiferent towards the top level competition, and the only time they care is when it reports them money, a.k.a EVO.

The nerfs make sense on a low level context (which is why I used FG as my example), which is all Nintendo really seems to care, we like it or not.