Playing FE 6 improved my opinion of FE 7

[wissenschaft]

I've only recently got into playing fire emblem games and after first playing FE 7 I was underwhelmed by it but now I'm playing FE 6. And I have to say playing FE 6 on hard really makes me see all the improvements in FE 7. FE 6 is just not balanced. I feel like FE 7 has far fewer useless characters, all the weapons types are effective (thank you accuracy buff on Axes), and the map objectives are obliviously much more varied. FE 7 does a wonderful job right from the start of mixing together indoor missions, large outdoor missions, smaller outdoor missions. Not to mention the defense missions tended to be my favorite missions.

In terms of difficult curve, I felt FE 7 was far better. Hector Hard Mode really has nothing on FE 6 Hard mode. In FE 6 ch 5, the boss has a killing axe for about a 34% crit rate while sitting on a throne that gives him 30 avoid. Thats insane for just chapter 5 and makes it a game of Russian roulette on whether you'll lose a unit to a lucky crit. On top of all this, theres enemy units with speed up to 13 in the level meaning most of your units are in danger of being doubled. It really feels like hard mode wants your to RNG abuse the game to win.

In contrast, while challenging Hector hard mode never felt completely unfair. It has a pretty good difficulty curve. Notably, Hector and Oswin are better units than anyone you start with in FE 6. Not to mention the added bonus of leveling up certain units in Lyn Mode. Plus, the stat inflation of HHM isn't nearly as brutal as FE 6 and your units have better growths on average. Which means I don't feel punished for not RNG abusing my level ups even in HHM.

I think I should replay FE 7 after all and try out different units as someone on the forum suggested. What are peoples thoughts on the game balanced between the two.

Maybe I'm just a filthy casual for not liking FE 6 hard mode. :P

Edited May 15, 2016 by wissenschaft

[Jedi]

While FE7 is overall more balanced, I prefer the map structure of FE6 personally because it feels like you're on grand fields of combat, and I just like the difficulty of FE6 personally. I know its not for everyone ^^. I have my own bias reasonings for my large enjoyment of the game

Also Marcus outstrips both Oswin and Hector speaking of supremely good FE7 units

Edited May 15, 2016 by Jedi

[Etrurian emperor]

While FE7 is overall more balanced, I prefer the map structure of FE6 personally because it feels like you're on grand fields of combat

Maybe that's intentional because in 6 you really are on grand fields of battle, its a world war. 7 seems a smaller conflict without any real armies involved, just a lord and his personal group against a mercenary guild.

[Jedi]

Maybe that's intentional because in 6 you really are on grand fields of battle, its a world war. 7 seems a smaller conflict without any real armies involved, just a lord and his personal group against a mercenary guild.

Yeah, I quite like that about both games, 7 stands out in that respect from most of the other games too.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

FE6 has two main issues for me:

• horrible balance of physical weapons: The accuracy of axes, lances and bows are nerfed compared to swords for no reason. It automatically disqualifies some classes like fighters, brigands and knights. In my runs I only use sword wielding units and spell casters.
• each mission is a seize mission: Idk why this game returns back to the dark past since FE5 introduced so many new and great mission objectives like escape or defend.

However I prefer the con system for spell casters in this game. Tomes weigh much less than in FE7 and 8. It makes things like nosferatu-tanking much easier.

[Moblin Major General]

However I prefer the con system for spell casters in this game. Tomes weigh much less than in FE7 and 8. It makes things like nosferatu-tanking much easier.

Why? This severely limits a lot of characters, especially Clerics and Priests once they promote, not to mention your first real Dark mage. Having to heave around a 5 WT Flux against Sophia's horrible Con is painful. Out of all the Ests, I see her probably the most painful to train for that reason.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

^ Don't misunderstand me.

I don't like the con system, because it disadvantages some classes and females.

FE6 did it better that tomes weigh less than in 7 and 8. Nosferatu weighs ridiculous 14 in FE7 while it only weighs 6 in FE6. You don't have to worry so much to get doubled. However the units tend to have lower con, so this advantage is already negated.

[Gradivus.]

In FE6, the only tomes that are ever going to weigh you down noticeably are Bolting (10 Wt), Aureola (EDIT: 9 Wt, still lolAureola), Purge (8 Wt), Apocalypse (12 Wt) and eclipse which is useless anyway. Compare that to FE7/8 where you see stuff like 10 Wt Elfire, 12 Wt Divine, 20 Wt Bolting and 14 Wt Nosferatu among many other examples. The high-Wt tomes in FE7 (except Luna and Bolting) tend to be pretty useless, while in FE6 only tomes that remain useful with it have high Wt.

Also, FE6 C5's boss really isn't that bad. You can bait him into equipping a hand axe to avoid the critrate and then safely engage him with sword users. Gates also only grant +20 avoid.

I personally think FE6 is a lot better than FE7, I dislike the maps in FE7 and it's too easy for my tastes considering its weak mooks, partly because Marcus and some other units are so overpowered. My only real complaint about FE6 are the weapon hitrates and that its mid to lategame is a bit too easy because too many enemies are unpromoted and/or have inaccurate weapons.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Gradivus.

[Shadow Mir]

In FE6, the only tomes that are ever going to weigh you down noticeably are Bolting (10 Wt), Aureola (12 Wt, lolAureola though), Purge (9 Wt iirc), Apocalypse (12 Wt) and eclipse which is useless anyway. Compare that to FE7/8 where you see stuff like 10 Wt Elfire, 12 Wt Divine, 20 Wt Bolting and 14 Wt Nosferatu among many other examples. The high-Wt tomes in FE7 (except Luna and Bolting) tend to be pretty useless, while in FE6 only tomes that remain useful with it have high Wt.

Also, FE6 C5's boss really isn't that bad. You can bait him into equipping a hand axe to avoid the critrate and then safely engage him with sword users. Gates also only grant +20 avoid.

I personally think FE6 is a lot better than FE7, I dislike the maps in FE7 and it's too easy for my tastes considering its weak mooks, partly because Marcus and some other units are so overpowered. My only real complaint about FE6 are the weapon hitrates and that its mid to lategame is a bit too easy because too many enemies are unpromoted and/or have inaccurate weapons.

Slight correction: Aureola's only 9 Wt in FE6, while Purge is 8 Wt.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Locke087]

FE6 has two main issues for me:

• horrible balance of physical weapons: The accuracy of axes, lances and bows are nerfed compared to swords for no reason. It automatically disqualifies some classes like fighters, brigands and knights. In my runs I only use sword wielding units and spell casters.
• each mission is a seize mission: Idk why this game returns back to the dark past since FE5 introduced so many new and great mission objectives like escape or defend.

However I prefer the con system for spell casters in this game. Tomes weigh much less than in FE7 and 8. It makes things like nosferatu-tanking much easier.

This...

Swords are the objectively best weapons in this game. Steel Lances and Axes are horrible weapons with hardly any use, and the cast is very unbalanced.

That being say I liked my second playthough of the game a LOT more, I accepted the game for what it is and got the true ending which for some reason contains all the actual explanation for the story... I think I might like this game more then FE 8 now... Though FE 7 is still way better then FE 6 in my opinion.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Locke087

[Katie]

Tbh I hate it when FE games make tomes heavy, because it flies in the face of all logic. They're fucking books for christ's sake! Even the biggest doorstoppers still wouldn't be that heavy compared to conventional weapons. Out of all the games with weight, I think Shadow Dragon did tome weight the most realistically, as tomes in that game only range from 1 to 5 in terms of weight.

[Gradivus.]

Swords are the objectively best weapons in this game

This is a misconception. Purely out of the weapon triangle weapons, there are many situations where you're going to prefer a lance / axe to a sword for WTA. Swords are optimal when you face axe users, bosses or mage types, otherwise not so much.

An iron axe, for example, has -5 Hit but +5 Mt and +20 Avo against a lance compared to an iron sword.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Gradivus.

[Locke087]

This is a misconception. Purely out of the weapon triangle, there are many situations where you're going to prefer a lance / axe to a sword for WTA. Swords are optimal when you face axe users or magical enemies, otherwise not so much.

Fir and Rutger disagree, lances users never hit them (on normal anyways)... That being that said Milady, Shanna and my Paladins did use lances a lot weapon triangle still matters in the game. That being said being sword locked is better then being lance or axe locked, being axe locked is a terrible fate for any unit in fact. That is what is what I meant that swords are largely better in way that they usually are not, Fir and Rutger should fear Lance users but they do not. Mostly this applies to Normal mode I noticed that Weapon Triangle matters more in Hard.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Locke087

[Shadow Mir]

This is a misconception. Purely out of the weapon triangle, there are many situations where you're going to prefer a lance / axe to a sword for WTA. Swords are optimal when you face axe users or magical enemies, otherwise not so much.

An iron axe, for example, has -5 Hit but +5 Mt against a lance compared to an iron sword.

True, though tbh, it's pretty obvious something ain't right when a fight between a lancer and a sword user has a good chance of ending better for the latter despite being on the losing end of the weapon triangle. Also, being sword locked is usually seen as a big disadvantage in FE, but not so much in this game.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Gradivus.]

^That's really just steel lances tbf, their weight and accuracy dooms them to mediocrity. If you look at, for example, the silver lance wyvern lords in lategame, swords do pretty poorly against them. That's why I wish more enemies had silver weapons and were promoted.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Gradivus.

[Locke087]

^That's really just steel lances tbf, their weight and accuracy dooms them to mediocrity. If you look at, for example, the silver lance wyvern lords in lategame, swords do pretty poorly against them. That's why I wish more enemies had silver weapons and were promoted.

Oh that is why, I thought the game would be smarter give more of them silver, or iron (there is more then enough killer users thank you very much). Steel lances and axes are so worthless in this game I have to wonder who on earth though this was a good idea to make them this way.

[wissenschaft]

Also, FE6 C5's boss really isn't that bad. You can bait him into equipping a hand axe to avoid the critrate and then safely engage him with sword users. Gates also only grant +20 avoid.

How exactly do you bait a boss to switch weapons and insure he doesn't switch back to killer axe? If I miss and he lives, won't he just switch back to the killer axe on the enemy turn?

Edited May 15, 2016 by wissenschaft

[Shadow Mir]

How exactly do you bait a boss to switch weapons and insure he doesn't switch back to killer axe? If I miss and he lives, won't he just switch back to the killer axe on the enemy turn?

Rescue-drops. Basically, I use a mounted unit to rescue a unit that's already moved, move them out of range, and have another unit drop the rescued unit. It's also something I'd use if a boss DOESN'T have a ranged weapon equipped, except with archers and mages instead.

^That's really just steel lances tbf, their weight and accuracy dooms them to mediocrity. If you look at, for example, the silver lance wyvern lords in lategame, swords do pretty poorly against them. That's why I wish more enemies had silver weapons and were promoted.

I suppose that's true, but tbf, I'm prone to worry more about Heroes, Snipers, and especially Swordmasters than Wyvern Lords. Mages in general would also prove more worrisome.

Edited May 15, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[-Cynthia-]

I think weapons are overall better balanced in FE6 than FE7 actually. FE7 is dominated by Hand Axes and Javelins(and magic for Pent I guess), their low accuracy at least gives swords/bows some usability here.

[X-Naut]

Except the Steel weapons' accuracy is about as low, and they're even heavier than 1-2 range weapons... there's also the fact that Killers are virtually always superior to Silver, since they have the best accuracy outside of non-Iron weapons.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Steel Lances and Axes are horrible weapons with hardly any use, and the cast is very unbalanced.

Steel axes have somewhat an use in earlygame, at least against knights and soldiers (who have no speed => low evasion).

Edit: Steel axes only require weapon level E. Hero Dieck with his high skill and support can have a pretty decent hitrate.

Steel lances are just pointless in this game. Not only that they're inaccurate but also because they're way too heavy. I think only Bors and Barth are the only first tier units, who could use them without speed penalty. I'm not even sure, if promoted Alance have enough con to use them.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Ayama Wirdo

[Shadow Mir]

I think weapons are overall better balanced in FE6 than FE7 actually. FE7 is dominated by Hand Axes and Javelins(and magic for Pent I guess), their low accuracy at least gives swords/bows some usability here.

It's true that FE7 is largely a Hand Axe and Javelin game, but I really think this game's as bad as, if not worse than, FE4 with regard to weapon balance.

Steel axes have somewhat an use in earlygame, at least against knights and soldiers (who have no speed => low evasion).

Edit: Steel axes only require weapon level E. Hero Dieck with his high skill and support can have a pretty decent hitrate.

Steel lances are just pointless in this game. Not only that they're inaccurate but also because they're way too heavy. I think only Bors and Barth are the only first tier units, who could use them without speed penalty. I'm not even sure, if promoted Alance have enough con to use them.

Their Wt and 50 base hit tell me otherwise. Also, most of Dieck's supports only give him half hit, which isn't enough to offset their crap accuracy.

[Gradivus.]

Their Wt and 50 base hit tell me otherwise. Also, most of Dieck's supports only give him half hit, which isn't enough to offset their crap accuracy.

Come on, not that again. I don't think you played FE6 enough to have tried using Steel Axes, but they do have some uses in the hands of high-Skl units like Marcus and Dieck. Marcus is weighed down to 7 AS, which is enough to double soldiers and knights (which you might want to chip using a steel axe, I guess), and Dieck is only weighed down by 1 point, and his Skl alone allows him to pull good hitrates (90 true hit or better) against enemies weighed down by various lances. I'm not pretending they're great, but stop denying that there are niche uses for them.

It's true that FE7 is largely a Hand Axe and Javelin game, but I really think this game's as bad as, if not worse than, FE4 with regard to weapon balance.

Not really. While I think it's wrong I won't elaborate on the FE4 part since that's off topic and they aren't really comparable, but in FE7 you can spam whatever you want and come out on top. In FE6, even if swords have the most overall utility, lances and axes are useful pretty often, see my comparison between WTA Iron Axe and WTD Iron Sword. A WTA Iron Lance also has +3 Mt, -5 Hit and +10 Avo on a neutral Iron Sword.

But I guess it isn't really worth trying to convince you since you won't give up the lolFE6Axes/lol50Hit mindset.

Edited May 16, 2016 by Gradivus.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Their Wt and 50 base hit tell me otherwise. Also, most of Dieck's supports only give him half hit, which isn't enough to offset their crap accuracy.

Dieck is only weighed down by 1 point, and his Skl alone allows him to pull good hitrates (90 true hit or better) against enemies weighed down by various lances.

exactly

[Shadow Mir]

Come on, not that again. I don't think you played FE6 enough to have tried using Steel Axes, but they do have some uses in the hands of high-Skl units like Marcus and Dieck. Marcus is weighed down to 7 AS, which is enough to double soldiers and knights (which you might want to chip using a steel axe, I guess), and Dieck is only weighed down by 1 point, and his Skl alone allows him to pull good hitrates (90 true hit or better) against enemies weighed down by various lances. I'm not pretending they're great, but stop denying that there are niche uses for them.

Not really. While I think it's wrong I won't elaborate on the FE4 part since that's off topic and they aren't really comparable, but in FE7 you can spam whatever you want and come out on top. In FE6, even if swords have the most overall utility, lances and axes are useful pretty often, see my comparison between WTA Iron Axe and WTD Iron Sword. A WTA Iron Lance also has +3 Mt, -5 Hit and +10 Avo on a neutral Iron Sword.

But I guess it isn't really worth trying to convince you since you won't give up the lolFE6Axes/lol50Hit mindset.

A weapon having niche uses is fine and dandy, but if said weapon tends to not even be that useful for whatever niche it's supposed to be good for, that's reason enough for me to pass judgment. Also, I admittedly might have been putting too much emphasis on accuracy, but this is FE6 we're talking about...

Edited May 16, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia