Face-Rubbing is gone in the European version too!

[Jave]

Actually you can still rub the face of your spouse if you catch them sleeping which can happen at random times after the event is unlocked. It doesn't seem to have a time limit while they are asleep so if you want to view the 2D model for more than a few seconds this is your chance. The steam blowing thing after their bath is also still in the game. I'm not sure if the time limit for that event is indefinite after the instruction text box is closed but it is probably treated the same way until you start.

Yeah, but that's only the spouse. I really wish there was a way for us to look at the models for all characters as much as we want.

Edited May 23, 2016 by Jave

[Flareblade]

I don't know what anybody expected. PAL versions usually get the censorship hammer harder than American versions of games.

[FoliFF]

I don't know what anybody expected. PAL versions usually get the censorship hammer harder than American versions of games.

Not really no. In recent time EU/PAL is far more lax on that front. However, when it comes to under-aged people, especially girls EU/PAL along with Canada is very strict with several laws protecting minors and it doesn't matter if it's fictional or not. Why do you think age-lifting character is a thing? It's simply to avoid these strict laws.

What I have noticed is that whenever EU gets a JP game they usually EU/PAL use NA base game and "port" it to EU rather going to the source in this case JP and do their own localization. In other words EU/PAL gets "second-hand" localization from NA and go from there, instead JP -> EU/PAL.

Edited May 23, 2016 by FoliFF

[Loki Laufeyson]

Short version: He saw the trailer for the new Ghostbusters movie, thought it was dumb, chose that he won't watch the film. People are now accusing him of being a sexist pig and even sending harassing messages to him and his wife.

This is the video where he explains why he won't see it. I thought he did a very good job at voicing his thoughts and providing good arguments, but that didn't stop people for jumping all over him.

As i said to the guy who pm'ed about this, its really hard to take seriously anyone stomping their foot about that movie, because its always dudes and always for the same reasons. Rolfe's of the opinion that the humor wont be as good, etc but its hard to really appreciate that kind of opinion when comments about that film have been from literal manchildren. Still, he is entitled to his opinion, even if people disagree with it. While im sitting here going Yet Another Guy Whines About This Film, rolling my eyes, and just moving on without even going to his site and leaving a comment. Its disappointing that a huge number of people cant just do that. They have to berate and send awful threats.

Anyway, more on topic...I was hoping the EU version had the cool camera pan feature in the Hot Springs like the JP version. I still dont get why that was removed.

[saisymbolic]

I'm more upset about how the Accessory feature was gutted. What exactly did they take out? Was it only some swimsuits or was it more than that?

[Dualazi]

There is a difference between experimenting with the formula, and making dumb gimmicky gameplay that is a waste of time and has no purpose. I'm glad it's gone because it was a dumb idea to begin with. Perhaps next time IS will actually experiment instead of feeding this Weeaboo waifu nonsense.

It's no more gimmicky than the ability to name weapons, go to the bathhouse, or dress your team up in bear masks and goofy glasses. In fact, I'd say it's less gimmicky than the latter, since the skinship/my room/whatever is only present in the castle and is easily to ignore, whereas the outfits are present in combat.

Oh, and as for the "weaboo waifu nonsense"? That saved the series, and if polls here and elsewhere are to be believed, the fans overwhelmingly want it to remain in the game, at least in some form. Same with children, while some people dislike the way they were handled in fates (which was hamfisted at best) they are again seen as a pro and not a con by the bulk of the fanbase.

Lastly, IS has been experimenting with the battle formula as well, as we have seen with the stance change and removing weapon durability. Trying new things in one arena doesn't forbid it in another.

[eclipse]

Oh, and as for the "weaboo waifu nonsense"? That saved the series, and if polls here and elsewhere are to be believed, the fans overwhelmingly want it to remain in the game, at least in some form. Same with children, while some people dislike the way they were handled in fates (which was hamfisted at best) they are again seen as a pro and not a con by the bulk of the fanbase.

Source this, both here and everywhere else. Otherwise, don't speak for the entire fanbase.

[Roflolxp54]

I'm more upset about how the Accessory feature was gutted. What exactly did they take out? Was it only some swimsuits or was it more than that?

Any swimsuit that isn't named the Bath Towel got removed or otherwise dummied out in the localized version of the game. Even the Toga of Love (unlock accessory for getting 3 big hearts with your spouse) got removed/dummied out.

[47948201]

Was curious, checked reddit, found this:

It's not overwhelming, but that is a strong majority of pro-face-rubbers on that one. And every poll I can find elsewhere is either neutral or pro. Not even "pretty much every" poll, every one I've seen so far. Discussion-wise, I get that sense, too, but there are no numbers there.

[eclipse]

The shorter thread

The longer thread

DO NOT POST IN THESE THREADS!

Ahem. . .of the sites I'm aware of, I think SF was the closest to neutral during the NA mess (though I can't personally verify it). While there's some overlap between SF and reddit, we're not exactly the same userbase, if this is to be believed (there's another poll featuring Soliel, and that one is pretty different).

Hence why I asked for sources.

Edited May 24, 2016 by eclipse

[UNLEASH IT]

Who am I to judge people for liking things, even if I don't like them?

[Dualazi]

Source this, both here and everywhere else. Otherwise, don't speak for the entire fanbase.

Sure. The claim that Fire Emblem was about to get the axe is well documented, and some of these sites even source interviews conducted through SF itself.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/strong-fire-emblem-awakening-sales-saved-the-series-cancellation/1100-6408782/

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/25/fire-emblem-awakening-was-almost-the-last-game-in-the-series/

https://www.destructoid.com/awakening-saved-the-fire-emblem-series-from-cancellation-294726.phtml

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/24/fire-emblem-awakenings-success-ultimately-saved-the-franchise

As for the claim that it was thanks to the waifus, here is a poll conducted by Famitsu

This reddit poll is decently diverse, and the majority definitely want marriage in some capactity

A second reddit post shows a whopping 70% support for children in some capacity, with only 12% saying no to both children and marriage

And lastly, here on SF a poll conducted before the release of Fates shows 82% support for marriages.

I can see about digging up more if this doesn't satisfy, but it certainly seems like the relationship/inheritance additions have significant support both in Japan and US/EU. The number and length of threads about the game, here, on reddit, and even on 4chan have had lengthy discussions about who to marry to whom, who has the best/worst confessions, and various optimization topics on passing on skills and classes. It's a major feature of the game at this point, and I would not be surprised to see it become a permanent one, but I guess time will tell.

EDIT: I'll try and put these up on an album for easier viewing later.

Edited May 24, 2016 by Dualazi

[eclipse]

Sure. The claim that Fire Emblem was about to get the axe is well documented, and some of these sites even source interviews conducted through SF itself.

http://www.gamespot.com/articles/strong-fire-emblem-awakening-sales-saved-the-series-cancellation/1100-6408782/

http://www.siliconera.com/2013/05/25/fire-emblem-awakening-was-almost-the-last-game-in-the-series/

https://www.destructoid.com/awakening-saved-the-fire-emblem-series-from-cancellation-294726.phtml

http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/06/24/fire-emblem-awakenings-success-ultimately-saved-the-franchise

As for the claim that it was thanks to the waifus, here is a poll conducted by Famitsu

Famitsu Children.PNG

This reddit poll is decently diverse, and the majority definitely want marriage in some capactity

Reddit Poll 1.PNG

A second reddit post shows a whopping 70% support for children in some capacity, with only 12% saying no to both children and marriage

Reddit Poll 2.PNG

And lastly, here on SF a poll conducted before the release of Fates shows 82% support for marriages.

SF Marriage poll.PNG

I can see about digging up more if this doesn't satisfy, but it certainly seems like the relationship/inheritance additions have significant support both in Japan and US/EU. The number and length of threads about the game, here, on reddit, and even on 4chan have had lengthy discussions about who to marry to whom, who has the best/worst confessions, and various optimization topics on passing on skills and classes. It's a major feature of the game at this point, and I would not be surprised to see it become a permanent one, but I guess time will tell.

EDIT: I'll try and put these up on an album for easier viewing later.

. . .that is not an accurate interpretation of those results. I don't doubt that Awakening would've been the last if it flopped. But here's what I see in the poll results:

- The Famitsu poll does not have a "no marriage" option

- In the first reddit poll, if we read "not in every game" as "maybe" (which I think is a better way of interpreting it), then the numbers shift to ~30% in favor of some form of marriage in every game, 11% against, and the rest as maybe

- In the second reddit poll, it asks about both marriage and children, so the only "no" answers I'd expect would be from people who are dead-set against both, not those who may not like it personally, but don't think it's important enough to influence buying the game (see: me)

- In the SF poll, it asks about relationships. Not marriage. FE7 has some examples on the difference between the two (for example, Marcus/Merlinus wasn't romantic, but they leave with a business relationship if you A support them).

If you honestly think that Awakening and its relationships saved the series, go for it. However, I don't think that skewing poll results is going to help your case. Also, I pointed out earlier that SF and reddit have their differences, and that still holds true.

[Dualazi]

1) I wish it had included a "no marriage" result as well, but I more intended that particular one to be in defense of the children mechanic, as it's dominating in favor of their presence when you look at answers 2 and 3. Making the couples without kids was still 500 ahead of the nearest one though, and one of the bullets (of admittedly indeterminate value) says "I think coupling and supports are a charm of the series"

2a) That's still a 3:1 ratio of those in favor to against. 2b) My initial post way back was asserting that the marriage/relationship/kids... let's call it the social sphere of the game was a driving force in its success, since while previous titles had elements of this, they were not as pronounced as awakening's/fates. Thus, I tally the 'on the fence' answers in that favor, since if you like the social elements, but not in every game, you still do like them. Just maybe not to the extent others do.

3) Again, I didn't make the polls, but I am tempted to sit down and try and hash out as non-biased of one as I can later. It's worth noting though that it's difficult to have the children without the marriage element, I mean they can be interjected via the story of course but I don't think that's in any way the same thing as what people enjoy or complain about currently.

4) While most of your complaints against the polls are legitimate, let's not be disingenuous here; the other questions on that poll have to do with homosexual romance options, the ability of players to control the orientation of NPCs, and choice in the romantic character endings. It's very clear this was intended to be a question of romantic relationships rather than a generic "should characters interact with each other". Even if I were to cede the point (which I don't), then the last question is still "End-game, should you be able to have a bit of more choice in the character endings, romantically I mean" which has 74% support, clearly indicating that player involvement in the game's romances are strongly desired.

I don't think I've skewed the results, but unfortunately it's really hard to get accurate demographic data on this, even from large publications, let alone small interest groups or communities. I'll try and figure out a good way to get a more accurate poll going later.

[Emperor Petitt]

It's no more gimmicky than the ability to name weapons, go to the bathhouse, or dress your team up in bear masks and goofy glasses. In fact, I'd say it's less gimmicky than the latter, since the skinship/my room/whatever is only present in the castle and is easily to ignore, whereas the outfits are present in combat.

I was against these as well, they serve no practical purpose.

Oh, and as for the "weaboo waifu nonsense"? That saved the series, and if polls here and elsewhere are to be believed, the fans overwhelmingly want it to remain in the game, at least in some form. Same with children, while some people dislike the way they were handled in fates (which was hamfisted at best) they are again seen as a pro and not a con by the bulk of the fanbase.

I rather have a franchise die than degrade itself into shit to save itself. My opinion on Age of Sigmar which "saved" Warhammer Fantasy is the same here.

Lastly, IS has been experimenting with the battle formula as well, as we have seen with the stance change and removing weapon durability. Trying new things in one arena doesn't forbid it in another.

so two changes in gameplay that is worth a damn for allot of perverted fan service nonsense, not worth it especially with the retarded story we got in fates, it seems they no longer care for their IP that should be public domain by now but is not due to backwards copyright laws established not even a 100 years ago by Disney

[tuvarkz]

Honestly, I'm neutral to favorable on all these gimmicks; particularly because imho the three more important things for a game (After graphics that aren't unwatchable) are good gameplay, good story, good music

The skinship minigame had no fundamental impact on the game; as Birthright/Revelation have grinding available, and even in Conquest, it's only Corrin's supports that are affected by this; and Corrin should be already getting enough points from participating in battle, given that he's a solid unit that will likely be on the front rows, which means that unless you go for one of the late joiners, or a second gen unit; you are in no particular pressure rush getting Kanna (And then given the random factor of what units you can actually get support rank bonuses from, it's not a reliable method either).

Naming weapons isn't a new thing, and it's again a feature that can be ignored at no gameplay penalty (Alright, Odin is the one exception here; but it doesn't take darnedly long to write a new name for this). Same for the Hot Springs, no gameplay effect from visiting it. You can get a character from upgrading it to level 3, but then you might as well just say "Spend 6 points to get said character"; and you might as well just consider it a glorified statue.

Once more, the same applies to dressup; and while mostly gimmicky or goofy in nature, the possibility that this opens for an actual unit customization option is interesting. (You'll want to build the thing anyways to get a single item to give your units to get the support boost, but again entirely random and not necessary).

And while resource allocation in development is a thing, it's not like the same people in charge of these gimmicks are the same ones in charge of gameplay and/or story.

On the gameplay aspect, it's not simply that, but the entire weapon system has been rebuilt (Or might as well been considering how different weapons were before Fates and with Fates); and a significant AI change (As an example, units will no longer attack if their attacks would be fruitless and opt to ignore and move past in the direction of your squishier units instead).

While yes, the plotline of Conquest and Revelation could've been vastly improved (A typical story was promised for Birthright and that's what we got, so no major complaints there)(Children being shoehorned in being the exception, particularly because of the Deeprealm implications); insofar I've found that Conquest has great, engaging gameplay, far more fun that what Awakening ever provided in its main story mode (Jumping from Normal/Hard Avatar roflstomp to L/L+ RNG madness/few avenues of success). Overall, I'd say that Fates is a step forward from Awakening, not a step further backwards.

[shadowofchaos]

I rather have a franchise die than degrade itself into shit to save itself. My opinion on Age of Sigmar which "saved" Warhammer Fantasy is the same here.

so two changes in gameplay that is worth a damn for allot of perverted fan service nonsense, not worth it especially with the retarded story we got in fates, it seems they no longer care for their IP that should be public domain by now but is not due to backwards copyright laws established not even a 100 years ago by Disney

You have a right to that opinion, but I think that's pretty selfish.

Especially considering just ignoring all of the waifu crap, Fates has by far the most enjoyable gameplay I have ever experienced in FE on Conquest.

The fanservice is easily ignored by those people like myself who have dynamic wants on what to get out of each playthrough on a "serious" note.

Simply ignoring that point about the games design makes it look like you're really... really more focused about the fanservice than anyone else is.

As much as I enjoyed Lunatic and Lunatic+ in Awakening, their handling of difficulty and encouragement for players to think strategically through the map design and systems is, in my opinion, leagues above Awakening.

Edited May 24, 2016 by shadowofchaos

[Augestein]

You have a right to that opinion, but I think that's pretty selfish.

Especially considering just ignoring all of the waifu crap, Fates has by far the most enjoyable gameplay I have ever experienced in FE on Conquest.

The fanservice is easily ignored by those people like myself who have dynamic wants on what to get out of each playthrough on a "serious" note.

Simply ignoring that point about the games design makes it look like you're really... really more focused about the fanservice than anyone else is.

As much as I enjoyed Lunatic and Lunatic+ in Awakening, their handling of difficulty and encouragement for players to think strategically through the map design and systems is, in my opinion, leagues above Awakening.

I don't think it's too selfish to be honest. The shining series is a "shining example" (pun intended) of this. The first 3 were SRPGs. Then came the PS2 version and suddenly it was a hack and slash. At first everyone thought it was a spin off, and then the next one was a hack and slash, then another one... And another... And another ... And ANOTHER, seriously!? WTF happened here? They went from being pretty solid SRPGs to really mediocre at best hack and slash games.At best, all we got was a remake of the first one on the GBA. I'd rather see an IP put to rest than see it "evolve" into something no one really wanted that caters to an entirely different crowd (as even as a hack and slash / beat 'em up, it failed to whet my appetite and I like those style of games). It'd be like seeing the Mother series turn into an action series. It'd be a far cry from the original vision, and I'd rather see it become a new IP rather than a simple cash in on the name. That way, at least from a new IP, you get two different styles of game-- with the possibility of liking both I might add, instead of having your old favorite series / series you liked change into something else that you might not like anymore.

[shadowofchaos]

Again, that sounds... selfish.

Your comparison with those other games doesn't even sound anything close to what FE is going through.

The gameplay is honestly, a step forward.

There is no conflicting with the roots.

The UI is the same.

The added features add to strategic value of the originals rather than changing FE into a full on hack and slash RPG.

I do not see FE having a reticle for aiming or turning into Sengoku Musou.

You're just having a hard time adjusting to the waifus, crappy story, and increased popularity it seems.

[Water Mage]

I believe that what shadowofchaos means is that despite the new things, it's still at it's core, a Fire Emblem game.

Everything Fire Emblem is know for is in Fates.

It's still a strategy game with the mechanics the series is know for.

It didn't chand completely like Shinning Force.

The series stayed the same, only with new things added.

Edited May 25, 2016 by Water Mage

[RedRob]

It'd be a far cry from the original vision, and I'd rather see it become a new IP rather than a simple cash in on the name. That way, at least from a new IP, you get two different styles of game-- with the possibility of liking both I might add, instead of having your old favorite series / series you liked change into something else that you might not like anymore.

This really isn't any different from creating a new IP, and letting a old IP wither. The old is dead, with no more games being made from it, while the new one, who's style you may not like, getting all the attention.

Here, with Fire Emblem, it's practically the same.

The fanbase is going to be mad an old series is dying, while a new one is going to replace it. Only the new series is the old with a new coat of paint that makes it unrecognizable. The fanbase is still going to be mad, since the old is still effectively gone, but what makes this different from creating a new IP is that Nintendo doesn't have to spend money on marketing to create brand recognition, since they can just piggyback off of the brand recognition already in place from the old series.

Either way the end result is the same. A beloved series is gone, and a new one, which may not be well-liked, takes it's place. Only, the later method makes it easier to get money, which is the purpose of Nintendo as a company in the first place.

Now don't get me wrong, I don't like how Fates turned out either. I'm just saying making a New IP would probably have the same end result.

Heck, something like this basically happens with any series when ever it has a sequel with new features, with some old ones possibly removed. People are going to like and dislike certain new elements of their own choosing. FE itself is a good example of that. Final Fantasy too.

Also, if there's the possibility of liking both IPs, then what's preventing you from enjoying the new IP as an addition to the old IP? Even if it isn't a good "insert random series" game, as long as it's still a good game, who cares? You still had fun right? The same applies to the opposite.If the game's bad, it's bad, no matter what series it's a part of.

Tl;dr The lastest FE games kind of suck, but making an new IP probably wouldn't fix that.

Edited May 25, 2016 by RedRob

[Roflolxp54]

Honestly, if all of the waifu stuff ruins the entire game for you, you can simply, um, not play it, you know? Why waste time on a game you know for a fact that you don't enjoy, especially after giving it a shot?

[RedRob]

Honestly, if all of the waifu stuff ruins the entire game for you, you can simply, um, not play it, you know? Why waste time on a game you know for a fact that you don't enjoy, especially after giving it a shot?

I guess either they like to complain, which I admit(and am guilty of), can be fun, or at the very least stress relieving, They could also be irritated at how they blew $40+ on it, which is understandable as no one wants to waste money.

[eclipse]

1) I wish it had included a "no marriage" result as well, but I more intended that particular one to be in defense of the children mechanic, as it's dominating in favor of their presence when you look at answers 2 and 3. Making the couples without kids was still 500 ahead of the nearest one though, and one of the bullets (of admittedly indeterminate value) says "I think coupling and supports are a charm of the series"

2a) That's still a 3:1 ratio of those in favor to against. 2b) My initial post way back was asserting that the marriage/relationship/kids... let's call it the social sphere of the game was a driving force in its success, since while previous titles had elements of this, they were not as pronounced as awakening's/fates. Thus, I tally the 'on the fence' answers in that favor, since if you like the social elements, but not in every game, you still do like them. Just maybe not to the extent others do.

3) Again, I didn't make the polls, but I am tempted to sit down and try and hash out as non-biased of one as I can later. It's worth noting though that it's difficult to have the children without the marriage element, I mean they can be interjected via the story of course but I don't think that's in any way the same thing as what people enjoy or complain about currently.

4) While most of your complaints against the polls are legitimate, let's not be disingenuous here; the other questions on that poll have to do with homosexual romance options, the ability of players to control the orientation of NPCs, and choice in the romantic character endings. It's very clear this was intended to be a question of romantic relationships rather than a generic "should characters interact with each other". Even if I were to cede the point (which I don't), then the last question is still "End-game, should you be able to have a bit of more choice in the character endings, romantically I mean" which has 74% support, clearly indicating that player involvement in the game's romances are strongly desired.

I don't think I've skewed the results, but unfortunately it's really hard to get accurate demographic data on this, even from large publications, let alone small interest groups or communities. I'll try and figure out a good way to get a more accurate poll going later.

I think that "on the fence" is "on the fence", because if my answer is "yes", it will be "yes". Not "maybe".

- In regards to the last one, it's also a group that's both interested in marriage and same-sex couplings. Someone who's against one or the other probably won't say much of anything.

If you want to make a poll, feel free to do so. However, you'll have to figure out a way to accurately portray a lot of different views, ranging from "all the yes" to "not in my FE" to the middle ground (mine is "I don't care for it, but I'm not going to let my tastes dictate how everyone else plays the game, so I'll ignore it").