The unbalanced units in Fates......

[Time the Crestfallen]

There is the Oifrey archetype, which is technically a branch out for the Jagen archetype.

And amongst that archetype we have Marcus, Seth and POR Titania and I wouldn't describe any of them as balanced.

[tuvarkz]

I've found Selena, Belka, Laslow and Peri (Quite good Resistance compared to other cavalier units, in fact) to be pretty strong (Heck, if Peri gets a kill and gets a second turn via dance, she will generally confirm the kill); it's just that the child units outclassed them, so they ended up getting replaced by them as I went on and recruited child characters.

[henrymidfields]

Actually how easy is it to dodge tank in Fates? Using the original post as an example, can Kazahana make up for her lack of Defense with Speed? Something like Binding Blade in general (or Thany, Fir, Sue, Shin, Clarine from my experience), albeit better balanced? Or is Fates closer to Shadow Dragon where avoid is sidelined in calculation terms and therefore not as practical? (Navarre...*sigh*...I'm looking at you.)

Edited May 28, 2016 by henrymidfields

[Rothene]

In my current playthrough of Birthright, I find Tsubaki and Hinata useful for their bulk for baiting enemies. Then again, I'm not fielding Ryoma much and only on hard mode so those two can take a hit or two. Not sure if it's a playstyle issue but I find the low unit hp means people with just enough speed to not be doubled and decent Def or Res to build a wall to hold back a charge for a counter attack during PP. So many Hoshidans feel like wet paper when they are not-royals and are likely to double. As far as I've played, enemies can 2~3 hit kill most of my units so I need enough people around to spread out the hits without dying while I press forward aggressively.

[Avestus]

Actually how easy is it to dodge tank in Fates? Using the original post as an example, can Kazahana make up for her lack of Defense with Speed? Something like Binding Blade in general (or Thany, Fir, Sue, Shin, Clarine from my experience), albeit better balanced? Or is Fates closer to Shadow Dragon where avoid is sidelined in calculation terms and therefore not as practical? (Navarre...*sigh*...I'm looking at you.)

I'm on chapter 20 lunatic conquest and through the lion share of my run dodgetanking was dead. The only real way to do it is with the help of -breakers or air superioriy/ lucky seven (and the latter two are more like last-resort rather than viable tactics). Which basically means either waiting for very late-game or severe using of felicia reclasses (and when reclassed she doesn't do much damage). Overall i found myself almost completely not relying on dodgetanking even though i did some in awakening's lunatic, for exapmle.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Actually how easy is it to dodge tank in Fates? Using the original post as an example, can Kazahana make up for her lack of Defense with Speed? Something like Binding Blade in general (or Thany, Fir, Sue, Shin, Clarine from my experience), albeit better balanced? Or is Fates closer to Shadow Dragon where avoid is sidelined in calculation terms and therefore not as practical? (Navarre...*sigh*...I'm looking at you.)

Very practical if you abused Breaker.

The only reason you couldnt dodge tank the same way in Lunatic is inevitable end Enfeeble in Endgame. You can practically dodge tank everything else

Also Navvare is a very bad example of a dodge tanker. Navvare is a built in tank.

Edited May 28, 2016 by JSND

[Chromagna]

Um... Donnel is crazy strong when you train him. His only real flaw is not having galeforce. Also, see below.

I have a preference for Jakob's free AVO and damage reduction. Hard to notice that +3 damage when I use dragon fang and aether as much as I do. The hit would be alright for dodge happy swordmasters, and master ninjas I admit.

Anyway, no unit is truly unusable if trained. We just have a large cast and alot of redundancies.

I disagree. I found Donnel a pain to train up and when he was, with the time and effort put in to train him up, while he was good, I could have had better units with better classes, skills and better design. None of the males got galeforce and all of the second gen units would always be better than the rest anyway which in a lunatic run or apotheosis run, I would not hesitate to bench Donnel either way.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Lol lets not pretend Robin isnt all you need in Lunatic here

[Harvey]

Ok......some misconception that I got when reading this faq of how balanced the units are in general.

http://www.gamefaqs.com/3ds/114533-fire-emblem-fates-conquest/faqs/72962

I apologize for even stating this. I thought that since the units can't do so much, I felt that they were average and the guide like told me that some of the units I mentioned aren't that great to use.

I guess its possible for below average units to get better in the end.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Gamefaqs guide is generally speaking bad since they only read into ridiculously obvious shit while ignoring the context behind it

HEY CHARLOTTE HAVE HIGH SPEED AND STR! YOU KNOW WHO ELSE KNOW ABOUT THAT? ANYONE WHO CAN FUCKING READ

Edited May 28, 2016 by JSND

[Roxachronc]

Is nobody going to point out that he said Gunter was a bad unit, even though the entire point of the Jeigan archetype is that they will be outclassed by other units as the game progresses?

I think the problem with Gunter is that his role as a Jeigan is just needed like for 2-3 chapters at most really, compared to something like Frederic who was basically the best unit alongside MU or Titania who was stupidly great the entire game, well I think is fair to say he is bad overall.

Conquest is the only game he can build support with FeMU, his personal skill is pretty good for her, but overall Jakob is better, so even as a pair up bot he is outclassed.

That said I dont understand why someone would say Hinoka is bad,lol, she is one of the best units in BR, not Ryouma level,but still is a pretty solid unit.

[MagicIsOP]

Gamefaqs guide is generally speaking bad since they only read into ridiculously obvious shit while ignoring the context behind it

But but it taught us that Wendy and Sophia are 9/10 units

[Roflolxp54]

1. Laslow: This guy is literally dumb. He has low defence somehow worse than Selena, And then he can't really do all that much of offence either. I tried using this guy but he just can't seem to do so much of damage and he takes a lot of hit as soon as you get him.

2. Selena: She's slightly worse than Laslow because She doesn't have great STR. She's better on Laslow on one thing though and that's defense part. It still doesn't do much though. I did use her in Revelation and very often, I'm not so confident in her because of how her RES is terrible and that her LUC is somewhere in between.

5. Odin: This unit is pathetically weak. Some argue that he's a good Swordmaster but really if that is the case, why make him a mage in the first place?

lolwut. Considering that you played Awakening, you could think of a few reasons for them...

Edited May 28, 2016 by Roflolxp54

[maninbluejumpsuit]

I disagree. I found Donnel a pain to train up and when he was, with the time and effort put in to train him up, while he was good, I could have had better units with better classes, skills and better design. None of the males got galeforce and all of the second gen units would always be better than the rest anyway which in a lunatic run or apotheosis run, I would not hesitate to bench Donnel either way.

Get to level 10. Second seal into fighter. By the time you start fighting valm, you'll actually need to hold him back from eating everything alive for the rest of the story.

As I said, his only flaw is the fact he can't have galeforce. Him not being a child unit goes without saying.

[Roflolxp54]

Get to level 10. Second seal into fighter. By the time you start fighting valm, you'll actually need to hold him back from eating everything alive for the rest of the story.

As I said, his only flaw is the fact he can't have galeforce. Him not being a child unit goes without saying.

His biggest flaw is his weak bases -- unless you're willing to abuse DLC for grinding, Donnel is a lost cause in Lunatic(+) since the experience given to him could easily better serve somebody else like Sumia.

[Inference]

Even in Hard, he's kind of pointless. Awakening is nothing but growth units, and Donnel is the only one who starts off doing no damage and being easy to OHKO. Plus, he eats experience from way better units like Draco Panne and Pegasus Avatar.

Oh, and let's not forget him starting in E Axes or Swords while Sully is probably wielding Silvers/legendary weapons. It's just like...why? As a guy who tends to use Nino in FE7, I understand the appeal to him, I just don't understand why people fail to acknowledge that everyone around him is better.

Edited May 29, 2016 by Inference

[Dark Holy Elf]

It's a matter of perspective. Some people put a lot of stock in how a character ends up, like their final power is the reward you are striving for and they want the shiniest one of those. It makes sense if you're coming from a mindset like Pokemon or something where you might thereafter use thee characters in PvP, or something.

Of course I'm not one of those people so yeah I too just see Donnel as someone who is more difficult to train than everyone else and don't consider his payoff to be worth it (especially since he's stuck with mediocre classes that have no access to high mobility, staves, Nosferatu, or anything else neat like that, so all he can ever really offer are good stats).

[MeddlingMage]

Hinoka is amazing for me. She's pretty damn good. You could do what I did. I heart sealed Hinoka into a Spear Fighter once I got her and now she even rivals Oboro as a Spear Master. Hinoka carries the Venge Naginata +1 and Oboro carries the Brave Lance +1.

[Blade]

First of all, not all retainers suck. Oboro, Niles, Saizo, Azama, and Effie come to mind.

It's your opinion to think these retainers suck like Subaki since everyone hates him because of his lopsided growths, but I'm a Baki fanboy so I favor him over the statistically better (and forgettable) Hinoka. However, your justification on why SOME units are "unbalanced and bad" baffles me.

[darkestdarkness]

get odin out of dark mage as soon as possible. I reclassed him to dread fighter as soon as I recruited him and he basically cheesed first half of conquest hard, but swordmaster is pretty good provided you don't get str screwed.

[DragonFlames]

Hinoka is amazing for me. She's pretty damn good. You could do what I did. I heart sealed Hinoka into a Spear Fighter once I got her and now she even rivals Oboro as a Spear Master. Hinoka carries the Venge Naginata +1 and Oboro carries the Brave Lance +1.

First of all, not all retainers suck. Oboro, Niles, Saizo, Azama, and Effie come to mind.

It's your opinion to think these retainers suck like Subaki since everyone hates him because of his lopsided growths, but I'm a Baki fanboy so I favor him over the statistically better (and forgettable) Hinoka. However, your justification on why SOME units are "unbalanced and bad" baffles me.

I think it all comes down to opinions in the end. As a lance user, Oboro was pretty weak for me and ended up as pair-up fodder for her hubby (Takumi), while for others, she may be their strongest unit.

Others benched Hana and / or Hinata in favour of Ryoma, but since I have a bias for Hana (female Sword wielders in general), I continued using her ALONGSIDE Ryoma as my Avatar's pair-up partner (and wife) and she ended up outclassing him in terms of stats and skills. I sort of managed to turn her into a semi-tank with Armored Blow, Pavise and Miracle. I tell you, its amazing! Will try to do the same thing in Revelations and see how that goes.

What I can agree on is that Hinoka is underwhelming when compared to her siblings, but I still used her over the other Sky Knights (even Shigure), just because she was important to the story and she ended up being my strongest lance-wielder, scrapping the need for Oboro or Shiro.

What I'm trying to say is: Let's not go up in flames over someone's personal preferences. That's like saying you're stupid for liking cheese or something.

That said, I think it's unfair to assume that any unit is useless in any case and that they can never be useful, since for at least one person, that particular unit worked splendidly and surpassed the usual assumption of them being bad or worse than someone else (case in point for me: Hana). It works the same the other way around.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

but Hinoka isn't important to the story.

atleast thats what i keep seeing repeated around here.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Hinoka is the definition of a character who is so forgettable that its kinda obvious she's a last minute second thought addition.

Theres a good reason that no one is surprised when the dev team revealed that Hinoka is actually a last minute addition

Also IIRC Subaki is Top 8 unit of Birtright according to reddit tier list. He's actually surprisingly underrated

Edited May 30, 2016 by JSND

[DragonFlames]

What I meant by 'important to the story' was that she is one of the Royal Siblings and I decided to use all four of them on my first run.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Being a Royal does not give you an instant ticket of being important to the story. Sakura in Conquest isn't important, although Hinoka in Conquest is just flat out unimportant its a wonder she's even an actual character