How OP Should Lords Be?

[MCProductions]

I'm torn. Units like Eliwood are the type that I think are the best stat wise. Not terrible, but not particularly powerful either. On the other hand, Corrin has something that makes her/him good IMO.

Corrin being the main lord is a good step to hopefully paving the future for how the lords are designed. Variable.

I like that Corrin has the choice of any class you want. It essentially means that you can build your team around what you want as a player rather than what the game forces you to have. What I mean is this, most units that are lords are locked with swords, so as a player, you're naturally more inclined to use units that balance this out-- ie, pick an axe user over another sword user unless the axe user is terrible. Corrin's idea is kinda weeding that out potentially. If it weren't for the Noble Prince/Princess classes being locked with weapons, this would be better (especially with getting the Yato as a sword still encourages you to choose a sword using class).

Next FE game, I'd like them to keep the lord as the customization character, but make their preferred weapon something you choose to be honest. Especially if the lord is going to keep having a unique class. I'd rather them do something like:

Choose appearance, boon, bane, weapon, and subclass(es). Then on promotion have a choice of gaining an additional weapon or a critical boost for your first weapon. Just so you could do unique things like FINALLY make a cleric lord if you wanted , or have critical boosted tomes.

Yeah, Corn's versatility is how you do an OP lord imo. Make them powerful because of their wide range of skills and moves, not their ability to solo a chapter. I just wish there was a standalone Manakete class in Fates, because I usually find myself only using dragonstones as is in Fates because of my manakete bias, and would like a class specialized around them.

[Original Alear]

It really depends on the character. I feel like lords mostly are about as strong and capable as I feel like they should be based on their personalities, storyline power, etc. Main exception for me is that I feel like Lyn and Chrom should possibly be a bit better. And if Elincia counts as a lord I really feel she should be a bit weaker in FE10. Not to be harsh, but I feel like she does not come across as a really experienced fighter with a lot of prowess, yet in FE10 she's really quite good with Amiti.

[Rezzy]

I like my Lord to be on the better end of average, but not game breaking. We're forced to use them, so I don't want a Roy, who's dead weight, or Chrom, who's overshadowed by everyone on the team with Gale Force.

Eliwood's usually a decent unit for me, but I've heard that many get RNG screwed with him.

[-Cynthia-]

I don't think Eliwood is much better than Roy really, he has the same problem of mediocre bases (doesn't double, gets 2-3HKOd, 2-3HKOs back, 1 range locked). Roy's game just has harder enemies.

[Lord Raven]

Regal Blade solves everything. Ike literally needs only a few easy levels from the first two chapters to get him rolling (over everything).

The Regal Sword is some booty, Ike needs quite a bit more than that to get going. he's fairly mediocre until he promotes

Um, Ike doesn't get a Regal Blade. That weapon is only in FE7, I believe. One of the Elibe games anyway. You're talking about the Regal Sword. They're two different things. And no, it doesn't suddenly make him OP. It makes him better, sure, but not OP. I've still had him take too much damage and even get killed. He doesn't seem too powerful to me until he gets promoted.

nobody cares ana he clearly made a mistake and anyone with an inkling of common sense could figure out he meant the regal sword

[Anacybele]

nobody cares ana he clearly made a mistake and anyone with an inkling of common sense could figure out he meant the regal sword

Hey, I was just trying to help him out so he doesn't get the two confused again... And as you can see, I KNEW he meant Regal Sword, that's why I CORRECTED him. ;P

Edited June 4, 2016 by Anacybele

[Rezzy]

I don't think Eliwood is much better than Roy really, he has the same problem of mediocre bases (doesn't double, gets 2-3HKOd, 2-3HKOs back, 1 range locked). Roy's game just has harder enemies.

Eliwood can be really similar to Roy before he promotes, but he gets to promote a bit earlier, (especially if it's Hector's route), and he gets a horse after promoting. I think he gets lance access after promoting as well.

[Dr. Tarrasque]

Where the hell is "Strong but not broken (Hector)"?

Edited June 4, 2016 by Sirius

[General Banzai]

I don't think Eliwood is much better than Roy really, he has the same problem of mediocre bases (doesn't double, gets 2-3HKOd, 2-3HKOs back, 1 range locked). Roy's game just has harder enemies.

I mean, how a good a unit is is defined by their enemies. Otherwise FERD characters would all be the best in the series, but they just have stronger enemies to deal with.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

I mean, how a good a unit is is defined by their enemies. Otherwise FERD characters would all be the best in the series, but they just have stronger enemies to deal with.

Also depends on weapon/Stat system in their games.

For example, Eliwood has access to a 7Mt rapier while Roy's is only 5Mt. That can make a huge difference as well.

[DarkDestr0yer61]

Also depends on weapon/Stat system in their games.

For example, Eliwood has access to a 7Mt rapier while Roy's is only 5Mt. That can make a huge difference as well.

Aren't super effective weapons double might in FE 7 and triple might in FE 6?

[Lord Raven]

It doesn't make a huge difference, in fact it's the opposite; the gap in their base mt is negligible when it's effective.

With WTA, Roy's Rapier has 18 mt and Eliwood's has 16 mt.

With WTD Roy's Rapier has 12 mt - as does Eliwood's.

Neutral, Roy's Rapier has 15 mt, Eliwood's has 14.

Roy's rapier is really shit especially because it tends to have 12 mt against Cavs and it's not effective against Nomads. Eliwood's can hit Nomads for boosted damage.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Augestein]

Aren't super effective weapons double might in FE 7 and triple might in FE 6?

Only in the localization. So yeah, Roy's would still be better when it's up against effective enemies. Otherwise, the rapier is basically an iron sword while Eliwood's is a slightly better iron sword.

Yeah, Corn's versatility is how you do an OP lord imo. Make them powerful because of their wide range of skills and moves, not their ability to solo a chapter. I just wish there was a standalone Manakete class in Fates, because I usually find myself only using dragonstones as is in Fates because of my manakete bias, and would like a class specialized around them.

Yeah, I'm not sure why they got rid of that this time around. Only thing I can think of is that wanted Corrin to be more unique.

Roy's rapier is really shit especially because it tends to have 12 mt against Cavs and it's not effective against Nomads. Eliwood's can hit Nomads for boosted damage.

It's almost identical because of the x2 versus x3. When it fights on effectiveness, it's always equal or better than Eliwood's. I'm not seeing how Roy's can be "really shit." And by the time you're fighting nomads, Roy's rapier should have been long gone by then. Even more pressingly, is that most of the nomads can be avoided by taking a different route. Now if you're talking Japanese versions? Than Eliwood's is strictly better.

Edited June 4, 2016 by Augestein

[Lord Raven]

Only in the localization. So yeah, Roy's would still be better when it's up against effective enemies. Otherwise, the rapier is basically an iron sword while Eliwood's is a slightly better iron sword.

You're saying only in the localization, so in the Japanese Eliwood's would be like 6 mt better against every enemy.

It's almost identical because of the x2 versus x3. When it fights on effectiveness, it's always equal or better than Eliwood's. I'm not seeing how Roy's can be "really shit." And by the time you're fighting nomads, Roy's rapier should have been long gone by then. Even more pressingly, is that most of the nomads can be avoided by taking a different route. Now if you're talking Japanese versions? Than Eliwood's is strictly better.

Nomads are in Chapter 4 and 5, and they dodge a lot of things. Edited June 4, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Augestein]

You're saying only in the localization, so in the Japanese Eliwood's would be like 6 mt better against every enemy.

Nomads are in Chapter 4 and 5, and they dodge a lot of things.

Yeah, and the fact of the matter is that most people have x2 might when they play the one with Eliwood in non-localization. It matters here, because Eliwood's rapier isn't much more effective unless you're playing Blazing Sword in Japanese, Roy's rapier is about as effective as Eliwood's rapier in effective situations where you're getting a might bonus. Outside of that, Eliwood's is better, but I wouldn't call Roy's "really shit." Because most of the time they are exactly the same. Unless you're playing Japanese Blazing Sword, in which case Eliwood's is just straight up better. I still wouldn't call Roy's shit: it's not Thani or Reginleif, but it does its job.

Yes, 2 of them in chapter 4 and in chapter 5 there are 3 and one of them that's weighed down by a Steel Bow. 5 enemies are hardly worthy of even mentioning the lack of effectiveness, because as I stated, by the time you're really fighting nomads, your rapier is probably gone by then. You'll probably have already burned through that rapier by the hordes of cavaliers unless you're being really stingy with that rapier. The rapier only has 25 uses in Binding Blade as opposed to Eliwood's 40 uses. You get another one, but again, by that point, you've passed the nomads, and seeing the nomads in bulk are only if you go to Sacae. And the nomads aren't that evasive. Mercenaries and cavaliers are easily more problematic than the nomads, and in chapter 4, everything else is a cavalier or an archer. If nomads are considered evasive, then everything is evasive, as the cavaliers have the same base speed and are higher in level than the nomads, and in chapter 5, the mercenaries are even faster than nomads. Even with immunity to WTD, at least you can surround a nomad in a worst case scenario and prevent it from doing anything.

Roy's rapier is fine. I hated how the games started hitting that really bad power creep with the lords. Like... Compare Corrin's weapon with an iron sword for instance. (S)he starts out with a weapon marginally stronger than an iron sword/katana (as usual), but keeps getting weapon power-ups. I don't like that. I think prf weapons should be considered "really shit" when they are actually worse to use than standard weapons.

[Lord Raven]

Yeah, and the fact of the matter is that most people have x2 might when they play the one with Eliwood in non-localization. It matters here, because Eliwood's rapier isn't much more effective unless you're playing Blazing Sword in Japanese, Roy's rapier is about as effective as Eliwood's rapier in effective situations where you're getting a might bonus. Outside of that, Eliwood's is better, but I wouldn't call Roy's "really shit." Because most of the time they are exactly the same. Unless you're playing Japanese Blazing Sword, in which case Eliwood's is just straight up better. I still wouldn't call Roy's shit: it's not Thani or Reginleif, but it does its job.

I thought you were talking about something else. My bad.

Yes, 2 of them in chapter 4 and in chapter 5 there are 3 and one of them that's weighed down by a Steel Bow. 5 enemies are hardly worthy of even mentioning the lack of effectiveness, because as I stated, by the time you're really fighting nomads, your rapier is probably gone by then. You'll probably have already burned through that rapier by the hordes of cavaliers unless you're being really stingy with that rapier. The rapier only has 25 uses in Binding Blade as opposed to Eliwood's 40 uses. You get another one, but again, by that point, you've passed the nomads, and seeing the nomads in bulk are only if you go to Sacae. And the nomads aren't that evasive. Mercenaries and cavaliers are easily more problematic than the nomads, and in chapter 4, everything else is a cavalier or an archer. If nomads are considered evasive, then everything is evasive, as the cavaliers have the same base speed and are higher in level than the nomads, and in chapter 5, the mercenaries are even faster than nomads. Even with immunity to WTD, at least you can surround a nomad in a worst case scenario and prevent it from doing anything.

Yeah, but it's not so easy to surround the nomads when the cavaliers can gang up on you, do a lot of damage to you, and they really have a hard time dying. That whole chapter in general is filled with fairly tough enemies, and the nomads are frustrating because they have good evade and good hit against you. As it stands, Roy has like 18 base attack against many of the enemies in that map and 10 against others if he uses the Rapier, and that is not good especially since he doesn't double and he 3HKO's the cavaliers.

You aren't going to be in a position where you can just simply surround the nomads.

Roy's rapier is fine. I hated how the games started hitting that really bad power creep with the lords. Like... Compare Corrin's weapon with an iron sword for instance. (S)he starts out with a weapon marginally stronger than an iron sword/katana (as usual), but keeps getting weapon power-ups. I don't like that. I think prf weapons should be considered "really shit" when they are actually worse to use than standard weapons.

Roy's rapier is honestly pretty bad in the context of the game and in the context of Roy. Someone said in some chat that if Marcus had it then it would be a better weapon, but the fact is that it's locked to Roy so it sucks.

Lord weapon power creeps started with FE1 Marth Falchion, and we also had the FE4 Tyrfing (+10 Skl/Spd/Res, FE4's actually good Miracle skill, and 30 Mt?). On top of that, FE5's Leif had the Light Brand and Blaggi sword which were significantly better than what Roy has had access to, and even Eliwood's Rapier was better in the context of the game due to lower enemy stats in general and higher weapon usage. Even with 2x effectiveness as opposed to 3x.

The Blazing/Shadow/Omega Yato were basically nothing compared to the Tyrfing and FE1 Falchion though, and I would definitely say FE9/10 Ragnell has it beat as well if we're talking strictly about Lord weaponry. It's better than in other games, but let's not pretend the power creep was never there from the beginning. FE11/12 didn't have that kind of power creep either in lord weaponry, and Chrom's Falchion wasn't anything special.

[Reality]

I'd prefer the lord to be made out of tissue paper. It's a lot more fun to have "discovered" good characters from the pool of the larger cast.

Moving them to seize could be made into a devious puzzle instead of an afterthought this way.

Also I have a chess sensibility and don't approve of the whole leader at the forefront thing.

[Magical Glace]

Roy's worse than Eliwood because enemies in his game are stronger and his campaign is longer, making his mid game slump far more noticeable than Eliwood's.

On top of that his late game is far more reliant on a single 20-use weapon than Eliwood's is.

[Augestein]

Yeah, but it's not so easy to surround the nomads when the cavaliers can gang up on you, do a lot of damage to you, and they really have a hard time dying. That whole chapter in general is filled with fairly tough enemies, and the nomads are frustrating because they have good evade and good hit against you. As it stands, Roy has like 18 base attack against many of the enemies in that map and 10 against others if he uses the Rapier, and that is not good especially since he doesn't double and he 3HKO's the cavaliers.

You aren't going to be in a position where you can just simply surround the nomads.

It's still an option those cavaliers don't give you though. The chapter is just annoying because of those cavaliers, because they are faster, stronger, and more durable than the nomads. even with WTA over them, all you're getting is some extra hit, because the cavaliers really have that much defense over the nomads.

Roy's rapier is honestly pretty bad in the context of the game and in the context of Roy. Someone said in some chat that if Marcus had it then it would be a better weapon, but the fact is that it's locked to Roy so it sucks.

But that's Roy, not the rapier that's bad. Even then, Roy's "bad" in the sense that everyone else gets really good. Comparing Marcus to Roy is just plain unfair though, because Marcus at this point stomps on everyone that isn't Zealot.

Lord weapon power creeps started with FE1 Marth Falchion, and we also had the FE4 Tyrfing (+10 Skl/Spd/Res, FE4's actually good Miracle skill, and 30 Mt?). On top of that, FE5's Leif had the Light Brand and Blaggi sword which were significantly better than what Roy has had access to, and even Eliwood's Rapier was better in the context of the game due to lower enemy stats in general and higher weapon usage. Even with 2x effectiveness as opposed to 3x.

However, Marth with Falchion isn't as bad though, because it's a weapon that's given to him by the end. It doesn't power creep in the same fashion. It's simply too strong-- hence why it is weaker in FE3, which is honestly what I'd count more seeing as how FE1 is more of an experimental type of game. FE4 is a broken mess so commenting on it really isn't that great. Leif's weapons honestly serve to make him more well rounded more than they do "good" in the sense that he's overpowered. Eli's Rapier is better when you compare it on standard enemies and about the same otherwise due to the effectiveness. But then look at something like say... Thani, and Thani blows up cavaliers and armors so hard it's not enough funny. That's where I was going with that. You have no reason to not use Thani really, at least with say Eliwood's rapier, you *might* want to use say, a killing edge over it.

Like Sword of Seals for instance, it's OP yes, but it's humbled by 20 uses, as opposed to say... Ike's Ragnell which doesn't break at all, and ignores the standard FE9 sword mechanic of 1 range, and 1-2 range swords being magical. I kind of wish they'd tone back down the lord weapons and leave them at Roy levels.

[Lord Raven]

It's still an option those cavaliers don't give you though. The chapter is just annoying because of those cavaliers, because they are faster, stronger, and more durable than the nomads. even with WTA over them, all you're getting is some extra hit, because the cavaliers really have that much defense over the nomads.

That chapter is annoying because of all of the above. Are you joking? I just loaded a save from Chapter 4 and I am seeing the following stats on Nomads:

9-10 AS

97 Hit

22 HP

6 Defense

The lack of WTD against Axes or Lances makes them quite hard to hit (since you're gonna have like 70 hit against them), unlike the Iron Lance cavs with 8-10 AS. Note that like 2 of them have 10 AS. You are never surrounding the Nomads, ever, because your team is being split apart to take care of the Cavaliers. Being able to do a ton of damage to the Nomads with a Rapier would be much more valuable to get rid of that annoyance. The Chapter 5 Nomads are also frustrating because they have 10-11 AS, at least 99 hit, and 16-17 attack and in this chapter you have to fight in a crammed space so good luck surrounding them!

But that's Roy, not the rapier that's bad. Even then, Roy's "bad" in the sense that everyone else gets really good. Comparing Marcus to Roy is just plain unfair though, because Marcus at this point stomps on everyone that isn't Zealot.

If a weapon is only usable by a mediocre unit, then it's not a good weapon. If there was a 25 Mt spear with 100 hit that didn't give stat bonuses that was usable by only Wendy, that is not a good spear, because it's literally unusable.

However, Marth with Falchion isn't as bad though, because it's a weapon that's given to him by the end. It doesn't power creep in the same fashion. It's simply too strong-- hence why it is weaker in FE3, which is honestly what I'd count more seeing as how FE1 is more of an experimental type of game. FE4 is a broken mess so commenting on it really isn't that great. Leif's weapons honestly serve to make him more well rounded more than they do "good" in the sense that he's overpowered. Eli's Rapier is better when you compare it on standard enemies and about the same otherwise due to the effectiveness. But then look at something like say... Thani, and Thani blows up cavaliers and armors so hard it's not enough funny. That's where I was going with that. You have no reason to not use Thani really, at least with say Eliwood's rapier, you *might* want to use say, a killing edge over it.

Like Sword of Seals for instance, it's OP yes, but it's humbled by 20 uses, as opposed to say... Ike's Ragnell which doesn't break at all, and ignores the standard FE9 sword mechanic of 1 range, and 1-2 range swords being magical. I kind of wish they'd tone back down the lord weapons and leave them at Roy levels.

I'm saying this power creep is nothing new, because the Light Sword does quite a bit to enemies in FE5... and then we have non-lord personal weapons in FE5 such as Grafcalibur which are ridiculous, Mareeta's Sword, the Brave Lance, Pugi, etc. FE5 even has Forseti... then we've got FE8's Reginleif, FE9/FE10's Ragnell, FE10's Thani, etc. Fire Emblem, since FE4, has made personal weapons of all characters - lords and non-lords alike - very very powerful. There is no power creep. There were not that many games where they were decent to amazing because the ones with the really powerful weapons were just interspersed among the series, it's not something new. It's not like the most powerful form of Yato was really usable until the final chapter anyway. Basically, only the GBA FEs toned down the lord weapons/prf weapons in general, because unnecessarily powerful weapons for lords has been a thing since FE4. You can't just exclude FE4 because it doesn't support your point.

You also can't even say there's been a power creep just because of Fates, when FE11-13 didn't have that at all. Hell, you argued against FE1 Falchion because Marth had it for two chapters, but FE9 Ragnell was only there for two chapters as well, as was the most broken form of Yato. You've pretty much made a generalizing point based on Thani in FE10, which is also not that good a point because it's not like the character using Thani is a particularly good character. You can't just look at weapons in a vacuum.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Lord Raven

[Irysa]

Roy is still probably the hardest hitting dude apart from Marcus on those Cavs Raven, which is pretty damn useful, hitting Nomads effectively or not. Eliwood by comparison is completely uneccesary in 99% of FE7 maps.

Voted Leaf. That being said, FE12 Marth was fun too - he wasn't made of wet paper and wasnt TOO strong and never really becomes OP, but you have to feed him kills because of lategame on his way to the throne and he can make some combat contributions.

Edited June 5, 2016 by Irysa

[Augestein]

That chapter is annoying because of all of the above. Are you joking? I just loaded a save from Chapter 4 and I am seeing the following stats on Nomads:

9-10 AS

97 Hit

22 HP

6 Defense

The lack of WTD against Axes or Lances makes them quite hard to hit (since you're gonna have like 70 hit against them), unlike the Iron Lance cavs with 8-10 AS. Note that like 2 of them have 10 AS. You are never surrounding the Nomads, ever, because your team is being split apart to take care of the Cavaliers. Being able to do a ton of damage to the Nomads with a Rapier would be much more valuable to get rid of that annoyance. The Chapter 5 Nomads are also frustrating because they have 10-11 AS, at least 99 hit, and 16-17 attack and in this chapter you have to fight in a crammed space so good luck surrounding them!

More than 50% of the enemies in the chapter are cavs on chapter 4. The cavs still are difficult to hit because quite a few have lances, and Marcus is like... Your only good axe user. Only Lance and Allen can guarantee WTN at worst outside of Marcus here. The cavaliers are definitely worse than the nomads.

If a weapon is only usable by a mediocre unit, then it's not a good weapon. If there was a 25 Mt spear with 100 hit that didn't give stat bonuses that was usable by only Wendy, that is not a good spear, because it's literally unusable.

No. The spear is still good. Now would I use Wendy to use this spear? No. In this case of Roy, I'd still use him early game if Allen were the hero of the game for instance. Micaiah is mediocre in RD, but Thani is still a pretty solid spell. Lyn's Mani Katti is pretty good even if Lyn herself isn't.

I'm saying this power creep is nothing new, because the Light Sword does quite a bit to enemies in FE5... and then we have non-lord personal weapons in FE5 such as Grafcalibur which are ridiculous, Mareeta's Sword, the Brave Lance, Pugi, etc. FE5 even has Forseti... then we've got FE8's Reginleif, FE9/FE10's Ragnell, FE10's Thani, etc. Fire Emblem, since FE4, has made personal weapons of all characters - lords and non-lords alike - very very powerful. There is no power creep. There were not that many games where they were decent to amazing because the ones with the really powerful weapons were just interspersed among the series, it's not something new. It's not like the most powerful form of Yato was really usable until the final chapter anyway. Basically, only the GBA FEs toned down the lord weapons/prf weapons in general, because unnecessarily powerful weapons for lords has been a thing since FE4. You can't just exclude FE4 because it doesn't support your point.

You also can't even say there's been a power creep just because of Fates, when FE11-13 didn't have that at all. Hell, you argued against FE1 Falchion because Marth had it for two chapters, but FE9 Ragnell was only there for two chapters as well, as was the most broken form of Yato. You've pretty much made a generalizing point based on Thani in FE10, which is also not that good a point because it's not like the character using Thani is a particularly good character. You can't just look at weapons in a vacuum.

Yato gets two power ups. It's not the same thing here. I'm talking about the lords themselves in addition to their weapons.

FE1 Marth Falchion isn't the same. Because Marth himself isn't an exceptionally powerful unit. FE2 Alm is good, but not broken. FE3, Same story. FE4? Sigurd is OP. FE5, Leif is not. FE6? Nope. Roy is similar to Marth in that regard. FE7 the lords are pretty competent, and they only continue to get better sans Micaiah, and none of them get gamebreaking weaopns. I'm not asking for them to be bad, I just hate the need to make uber weapons like this. The lord was already competent enough, so it's silly to give them weapons like that. Fates gets out of hand with the royals for instance, and it kind of sucks in that regard. Robin for instance in Awakening is essentially a lord as well and snaps the game in two. Roy's weapon is a least humbled by the fact that it has 20 uses.

[Gradivus.]

Why is the +6 Mt, +2 Spd bonus from the second Yato upgrade (only finished BR, might be inaccurate) a gamebreaking thing? In my experience, it just allows Corrin to ORKO most non-General/GK enemies cleanly and makes it useful vs

Garon

, but with neutral Def, he still gets killed in 3-4 hits (facing very real hitrates against non-axes) and can't counter against 1-2 range enemies (which there are quite a few of in lategame), so I don't see it breaking the game in half. It's roughly comparable to the Bragi Sword in FE5 in terms of offense. What you describe as power creep just seems to be a sensible boost to make it perform certain roles in my opinion. I agree they went overboard with Ryoma's (and probably Xander's) weapon, but the effects that Yato has on the difficulty of the game aren't as extreme because of the aforementioned 1-2 range and availability differences.

Regarding the first upgrade, it's a good thing. Regular Yato has 9 Mt and +1 Spd, with no special effects, which is well below average for Prfs, the boosts just allow it to be non-mediocre, but it's hardly gamebreaking unless your Corrin is broken based on stats, which isn't nearly as certain as Robin being broken in Awakening.

[MCProductions]

Why is the +6 Mt, +2 Spd bonus from the second Yato upgrade (only finished BR, might be inaccurate) a gamebreaking thing? In my experience, it just allows Corrin to ORKO most non-General/GK enemies cleanly and makes it useful vs

Garon

, but with neutral Def, he still gets killed in 3-4 hits (facing very real hitrates against non-axes) and can't counter against 1-2 range enemies (which there are quite a few of in lategame), so I don't see it breaking the game in half. It's roughly comparable to the Bragi Sword in FE5 in terms of offense. What you describe as power creep just seems to be a sensible boost to make it perform certain roles in my opinion. I agree they went overboard with Ryoma's (and probably Xander's) weapon, but the effects that Yato has on the difficulty of the game aren't as extreme because of the aforementioned 1-2 range and availability differences.

Regarding the first upgrade, it's a good thing. Regular Yato has 9 Mt and +1 Spd, with no special effects, which is well below average for Prfs, the boosts just allow it to be non-mediocre, but it's hardly gamebreaking unless your Corrin is broken based on stats, which isn't nearly as certain as Robin being broken in Awakening.

Fairly certain they're referring to to the Rev's Final Yato variant. It has great stat boosts, and it's only weakness is it's one range lock.

[Augestein]

Fairly certain they're referring to to the Rev's Final Yato variant. It has great stat boosts, and it's only weakness is it's one range lock.

That's sort of what I'm getting at. It's like there's no real point to making weapons get that silly. Some of the reason I don't like FE4 outside of story.

Why is the +6 Mt, +2 Spd bonus from the second Yato upgrade (only finished BR, might be inaccurate) a gamebreaking thing? In my experience, it just allows Corrin to ORKO most non-General/GK enemies cleanly and makes it useful vs

Garon

, but with neutral Def, he still gets killed in 3-4 hits (facing very real hitrates against non-axes) and can't counter against 1-2 range enemies (which there are quite a few of in lategame), so I don't see it breaking the game in half. It's roughly comparable to the Bragi Sword in FE5 in terms of offense. What you describe as power creep just seems to be a sensible boost to make it perform certain roles in my opinion. I agree they went overboard with Ryoma's (and probably Xander's) weapon, but the effects that Yato has on the difficulty of the game aren't as extreme because of the aforementioned 1-2 range and availability differences.

Regarding the first upgrade, it's a good thing. Regular Yato has 9 Mt and +1 Spd, with no special effects, which is well below average for Prfs, the boosts just allow it to be non-mediocre, but it's hardly gamebreaking unless your Corrin is broken based on stats, which isn't nearly as certain as Robin being broken in Awakening.

2nd upgrade is still noticeably stronger than other weapons your units can have for what it's worth. And unlike previous games with things like Regal Blade, Rapiers etc, it doesn't run out. The issue is that you're basically ignoring what other units have in comparison. 2nd Yato is effectively a Silver Katana without any of the drawbacks. Unless you've got like a Iron Katana + 5 or something, you're not getting the same offensive power for just existing. Weapons like that weren't there for the other units. Let's roll back to Ike's RD weapon for instance, Ettard has no upgrade, and it's effectively as strong as a Silver Sword, but it's less accurate. Then let's go backwards and look at Regal Sword it follows the tradition of being a slightly better iron sword that beats horseback and armors. Regal's stronger against what it's meant to be good against, while Ettard is just plain better than Regal Sword in all instances where you aren't fighting armors or horseback. The things that compare to the 2nd upgrade are... Other royals, which kind of sucks gameplay wise.

And no, it's not Robin broken, but Robin was broken primarily because of Veteran and not having terrible bases with solid growths.