What's Awakening/Fates is doing wrong

[BlueBloodEmblazer]

This is the thread where we complain about what those two games did wrong and how it could be done better in the next installment of the series. My opinions.

First the avatar, the next avatar should not play much part in the story, I am the tactition. Not a naive lord. Robin was okay, but I'd prefer less of the avatar in the story.

World map. I want a world map like awakening had. Traveling around with the main character Lord sprite. My castle wasn't bad though, so I would want my castle to become the barracks. When in the barracks we walk with our avatar. On the map we walk with Lord.

Weapon system. I dislike durability since it's just annoying, but some of the weapons in Fates need to change. It's all so confusing and as far as the 1-2 range axes/lances go, they didn't need that big of a debuff. I'd rather make it harder to follow-up with them, but not impossible. Also weapon rank takes way too long to get to A/S rank. B rank is what most of my units are at during endgame.

Classes. The classic classes, Warrior, Assassin, Thief, etc should return. And sage design is better than the onmoji thing. Also the max weapon level being B on some classes wasn't a good idea. Especially on classes like hero that actually promote from the B-rank weapon.

CHILD/MARRIAGE SYSTEM. Awakening did a great job, but fates is so bad. The Awakening confessions are better than fates. The children make more sense for existing. And it's only in fates because IS saw how successful Awakening was and didn't want to backstep.

Story. Fates Birthright and Conquest stories are actually really good, but Revelation is not a very good story for Fire Emblem Standards. I would love for the next game to go like this.

Start by customizing the avatar. The story begins when "Lord" finds avatar unconscious and stuff (s)he talks to you but your avatar doesn't really answer back. This is because we don't want the avatar to have much personality so it's easier to insert yourself into their role. Eventually you must stop a time dragon who's been fleeing through dimensions in search of something for IS to figure out what that is. The dimensions lead you to your childrens' world where they can be recruited. The story could either go 2 ways. You either meet most of the Lord's from past games and travel through their worlds'. Or the worlds are just different. Idk

The last thing that some of you may be wondering is what about the avatar's little character development, but still have supports with everybody? Well my idea is the avatar brings out character development in nearly every other character, while simultaneously giving little personality. Let the other characters do most of the talking.

Sorry that it's so sloppy, but hopefully you guys get the idea. I'd like the hear some of your opinions, so please share them. Who knows maybe IS will somehow see our opinions. IDK thx for reading.

[HF Makalov Fanboy Kai]

nah i get ya, i really do agree with the world map because i have a hard time picturing the world in my head, which hurts my creativity when talking about the game.

and yeah fuck the max weapon level thing,you should be able to S rank any one weapon type that you want on a character.

i wouldn't say the stories of either one are super duper good, but in my opinion they are better then revelation which fails to entertain me (positive or negative) after mission 17, not to mention that i went into it expecting answers, but all i got was more questions.

heck i'm still on mission 24 because i just have no drive to play it currently.

[EricaofRenais]

I agree with you mostly and here is a list of stuff from older FE games I wish would return/stuff I would like to see change.

I want steal back, I loved how in PoR and RD you could walk up to an enemy unit and swipe everything but their equipped weapon and I want that to return.

NO kids in the next game unless they are done like in FE4 where there is a big time gap where they have a chance to grow up

World map should return like in SS where there are random enemies and special towers to battle for exp

Avatar like in FE7 with maybe a few supports and maybe two people of each gender that avatar can S rank no matter what gender the avatar is

Fewer better written supports with friend endings as well as romantic

[Ertrick36]

Well, with the proposed lack of avatar in the story (which is kind of the reason why I liked New Mystery of the Emblem a bit better than Awakening as far as story goes), I'd suggest maybe the support system for the avatar could break from traditional systems. I'm not too big a fan of the silent, no personality avatar archetype, so perhaps you could do a sort of response/talk system. Something akin to either a dating sim, Bioware RPG's, or even the Sims GBA games. Or they could ask for your opinions on certain things, and you can respond accordingly (though that might be a bit much for your average teenager, depending on the questions). Either case, your answers will affect your supports, and thus impose restrictions (e.g. no S support if you responded poorly). Though I think anything would be better than your goody-two-shoes, apologist avatar getting with just about any character imaginable, even if it fits neither character.

I think storywise, it's kind of over-exaggerated how badly written Conquest is. I mean, it certainly isn't very good, but it isn't on the level some put it at. It's just disappointing, which is why I think people throw it under the bus so often.

That being said, I am fairly sick of the one-note characters. Yeah, sure, we all have flaws and quirks to us. But it's like a lot of them start off Flanderized and many of them never learn to overcome their flaws, or even learn to adapt. Or when they do have a moment of clarity, the other character they're talking to ruins it and says "Oh, it's alright, I like you better when you're screwing everything up" (primarily thinking of Rajhat x Corrin S support), which is just a shoddy way of compensating for future supports between other characters, where they maintain their original personality. And yes, I know that every character has a trope of some kind and that's not necessarily a bad thing, but the better written characters actually grow, and their signature traits aren't so blown out of proportion that the characters themselves become the embodiment of said traits.

As for weapons, I just find it annoying that there exists weapons that only enemies can wield. I mean, I'm fine with special, prf-type weapons (like Garon's axe or Takumi's Fujin Yumi), but I don't like those "Silver Javelins" or the shortbows that only the enemies can have. That's just plain unfair. Maybe they could have special forged weapons, but nothing much better.

I agree with you mostly and here is a list of stuff from older FE games I wish would return/stuff I would like to see change.

I want steal back, I loved how in PoR and RD you could walk up to an enemy unit and swipe everything but their equipped weapon and I want that to return.

NO kids in the next game unless they are done like in FE4 where there is a big time gap where they have a chance to grow up

World map should return like in SS where there are random enemies and special towers to battle for exp

Avatar like in FE7 with maybe a few supports and maybe two people of each gender that avatar can S rank no matter what gender the avatar is

Fewer better written supports with friend endings as well as romantic

- Yes, I'd like to be able to swipe those goddamn vulneraries and elixers from those bastards before they can use 'em.

- And maybe some first-gen units can exist as a legion of Jeigans. Sort of like Marcus and Karel in FE6.

- Maybe they could reintroduce the Creature Campaign, too; that could be the after-endgame-game we could get, with the ability to do after-endgame DLC. Though grinding in FE8 can get a little too easy.

- To be honest, I do like being able to actually use my avatar as a unit. I just don't like them having a predetermined personality or a huge role in the story of a FE game.

- Could you clarify that last one? Do you mean you don't want as many that can end as romantic? You want less supports that are well-written? Or do you mean fewer supports in general, but the few supports are better written? Because I agree with the first and last ones...

[EricaofRenais]

I want fewer supports that are written better, more along the lines of the GBA supports where every one has around 6 people that they can support with each support telling more about the units involved and giving better back story as to how they know each other and interact. and have friend endings, make it that say two people who grew up together end up having a paired ending where they go off and have adventures but it is not romantic.

Edited June 9, 2016 by EricaofRenais

[B.Leu]

Oh yeah, because Bioware have such great writing nowadays, with their wheels and all...

If all the support with Kamui were 'automatic' with no dialogue, leaving things to the player's imagination, I'm sure it would be 90% better, simply because you have one character who can support hundreds characters, it is simply not possible to do it right. Nothingness is better imo.

If a FE4 remake ever came out, I'm hoping the MU will be just a mute character of whatever-ness. That was something FE4 did great, leaving things to the player's interpretation, so it's the logical step, but I'm hoping too much, they have otaku pandering to put on their games now. :p

That aside...

-I remember that in FE9, I stealed lot and lot of Physics staves. , and potions. Good times !

-I'm neutral about it, but the idea of 'friend ending' sounds good. Then again, nothing said that X characters was not Y's friend after the war.

-... Who wants to have the kids back ? Seriously, who ?

[Ertrick36]

I want fewer supports that are written better, more along the lines of the GBA supports where every one has around 6 people that they can support with each support telling more about the units involved and giving better back story as to how they know each other and interact. and have friend endings, make it that say two people who grew up together end up having a paired ending where they go off and have adventures but it is not romantic.

Okay, that makes sense. I do like that. In spite of the A+ supports and friendship seals, I still feel there's more IS could do to add incentives for players who pair up friends in the latest installments, and friend endings would help with that.

Oh yeah, because Bioware have such great writing nowadays, with their wheels and all...

If it's any reconciliation, I hate the wheel and am not a fan of the later games' pandering/preachy writing style.

[NekoKnight]

For weapon exp and weapon level caps, I would propose this solution.

1. Only have classes share a promotion path if they use the same primary weapon. For example, Fighters and Mercenaries both promote to Hero in Fates but Heroes only have a max of B rank axes, which favors Mercenary!Heroes over Fighter!Heroes. Instead, they should have Myrmidon and Mercenary share Weapon Master so they'll specialize in swords either way. Alternatively you could have character specific caps, Fighter!Heroes A ranking in axes and Mercenary!Heroes A ranking in swords.

2. Make promoted classes have a minimum of D rank in all equipable weapons. Also make the weapon exp faster because you aren't getting to S rank (or sometimes even A rank) without arms scrolls.

As for weapons, I just find it annoying that there exists weapons that only enemies can wield. I mean, I'm fine with special, prf-type weapons (like Garon's axe or Takumi's Fujin Yumi), but I don't like those "Silver Javelins" or the shortbows that only the enemies can have. That's just plain unfair. Maybe they could have special forged weapons, but nothing much better.

Most bosses are stationary which necessitates they have a 1-2 range weapon. The 1-2 range weapons used by players have heavy drawbacks to make them situational. If bosses had the "standard" versions of these weapons, they'd get slaughtered.

Edited June 9, 2016 by NekoKnight

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

-... Who wants to have the kids back ? Seriously, who ?

My IRL friends do. One even said that if she could not marry Leon and do match making she would not buy the game. I mean, they found the explanation stupid, but I did not hear any "I would've rather not have them".

Regarding the topic at hands, I have to think about it. I want to write something, but it will probably pretty long and convoluted.

[Rend Keaven]

What I don't like about Fates's world is that there is a lack of diversity in regions and communities within the area a they focus mainly on two kingdoms.

Elibe in FE6-7 had so many Kingdom/Regions with different roles, enemies and alliances while keeping the story flowing in a decent pace. In Fates, you have Two heavily focused Kingdoms, a kingdom tied with Revelations and a couple of elemental tribes that only appear one chapter per pathway and serve very little to the story.

[Hinya]

-... Who wants to have the kids back ? Seriously, who ?

I mean... I kinda like the kids... Yeah the whole deep realms is weird and all but I don't mind them.

Anyways if they are things I would like in a potential new game it would be this:

• Bring the World Map back. I liked moving around on the map with Chrom in Awakening.
• Enemies exclusive weapon... gimme please.
• I didn't play RD or POR but I feel like a steal option could be fun to use
• A Post-game. After beating Conquest I didn't had much to do tbh
• Regarding a "transparent" avatar if this were to happen I would like to have dialogue choices kinda like in Persona. Since this kind of characters don't have much personality your choices could not only make you more involved in the story but also let your avatar have a little of you in them.

Edited June 9, 2016 by Hinya

[Sunwoo]

I think the real thing that Awakening and Fates are doing wrong goes beyond just a couple of mechanics. Rather … I think that the games have lost sight of what gave the other FEs life. Don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that all of the previous games were masterpieces or that Awakening and Fates is shit, but both Awakening and Fates feel like they have less "soul". In a way, it feels like the developers are trying to throw in elements that worked in previous games without realizing why they worked in the first place.

This is especially clear in how many of the later rulers and protagonist (Chrom, Kamui, Xander to name a few) seem selfish when it comes to people they love vs. good of the country, compared to Elincia who took a level in badass and became a proper queen. Or how the game seems to push naivety as being a good thing (Emmeryn) when others got penalized for it (Eirika, Elincia). And other elements like apologizing to the sole survivor of a massacre (Emmeryn vs. Sanaki) or reactions to characters dying (compare reactions to PoR Greil's death and FE7's Elbert and Ninian to people dying in Fates). That seems to be the real issue. The developers are trying to reuse elements from older games without realizing WHY they worked and just throwing it into the story hoping it'll stick.

[Ertrick36]

Most bosses are stationary which necessitates they have a 1-2 range weapon. The 1-2 range weapons used by players have heavy drawbacks to make them situational. If bosses had the "standard" versions of these weapons, they'd get slaughtered.

I was more referring to non-stationary units that carry them (like in the gold-grinding DLC). Though for those bosses, why not just give them forged standard 1-2 weapons and slap some skills on them that negate the adverse effects in a way that's fair? Besides, I don't understand how generic boss mook number 142 gets a silver javelin, but the all the royal retainers only get standard-issue weapons.

Maybe I just hate generic bosses. Or maybe I just think that those special 1-2 range weapons are unnecessary when the foes already get their own unique skills and the wary fighter skill. Or maybe I just wanted to rip on them because I think their mere existence is stupid.

Either way, both are merely results of overarching problems with the game as a whole.

What I don't like about Fates's world is that there is a lack of diversity in regions and communities within the area a they focus mainly on two kingdoms.

Elibe in FE6-7 had so many Kingdom/Regions with different roles, enemies and alliances while keeping the story flowing in a decent pace. In Fates, you have Two heavily focused Kingdoms, a kingdom tied with Revelations and a couple of elemental tribes that only appear one chapter per pathway and serve very little to the story.

You forgot about Mokushu and its former rival Koga. And Izumo, headed by Izama. Don't worry, I forget too.

Yeah, the various regions didn't feel all that major. You don't think of Flora as a subordinate to the Ice Tribe Chief; you think of her as Felicia's sister. That's a result of the lack of focus on the Ice Tribe; it merely feels like a pawn that you just obstructs you from your ultimate goal. The Fire Tribe only exists in Rinkah's narrative, which you can completely miss. The Wind Tribe doesn't give a damn as long as you wreck Fuga's shit. Izumo doesn't give a damn, either.

Every region in each kingdom just feels uninvolved,inconsequential in the war. And thus, you just forget about them.

As for the Elibe games? Well, you fight the Marquess of Laus... in both games. Another Marquess is a consistent enemy throughout a good portion of FE7, providing some of his own troops to aid your main foe. And major leaders and military officers from other nations join you in your battle against evil.

[Loki Laufeyson]

I think storywise, it's kind of over-exaggerated how badly written Conquest is. I mean, it certainly isn't very good, but it isn't on the level some put it at. It's just disappointing, which is why I think people throw it under the bus so often.

Omg this right here. I dont like Conquest's story, but its actually better than Revelation when i really think about it. Because its so disappointing, we all get all up in arms over it. Ive kinda just come to terms with it.

However, this is the problem with latest FE. I honestly dont think the mechanics have a lot to do with it. Stuff like Casual mode has allowed the series to be more accessible and that shit's awesome. The problem, is that the writing does not want to take risks anymore. (and i think this is what Sunwoo is partially trying to get at.) The writing isnt just formulaic and dull, its super duper anime and a bit pandery. The avatar character concept isnt bad at all. Its just they either have too much personality, or the story revolves around them so much that they cannot do any wrong. Literally. The writing doesnt want to make the player feel like they are taking any risks, and as such, when a plot death happens it feels hella cheap. The narrative panders to the avatar being the shining example of goodness, and everyone is somehow indebted to them. Robin, in Awakening, literally blows up thousands of people in the water and its praised as the best strat ever. Versus Micaiah trying to use a pretty dirty tactic of pouring oil down a hill to ground (and set fire) to the Apostle's troops in FE10. This was lauded as filthy and really dishonorable. Even Soren found this to be hella gnarly and he was the kind of character to find any way possible to get shit done. Corrin constantly fucks up and everyone just pats them on the back.

Revelation spoilers, but theres a part where Corrin just up and trusts this one kid in Valla and thinks "oh nothing could go wrong" and everyone else is all "how can we trust this kid?" and Corn be like "just because."

"Ok, good job Corn!"

Kid betrays them and everyone be all "oh dont feel so bad, Corn." Im like "dude..."

Most FE games would actually chastize the Lord for doing this kind of shit. Eirika is called out rather hard when she thinks she can trust Lyon and it ends up going very badly for her.

No, current FE writing wants us to feel too good about our self insert. As a result, our worlds arent getting built properly (omg wtf is even the religion of the Fates world?) and we get characters who play up too many anime tropes. And im not even talking about decent seinen tropes. This is shounen harem anime tropey crap we keep getting. Some characters are great, but we cannot deny what is going on here. The reason this is happening is because they want to cast the largest net possible in terms of appeal. They want this shit to sell. I dont blame them, but its time to begin realizing that the "face" of FE is beginning to look really flimsy and cheap.

Im also really tired of Greater Dragon/God Threat Nukes World Plot. I want more FE stories to be centralistic to politicking and winning back nations. These are my favorite story segements of FE games (fighting Darin and Laus in FE7, Kicking Grado's teeth in in FE8, The whole of FE9 and Part 2 of FE10) and id want more of that. We dont always need to save the world from something ugly and huge. War and strife between nations is often uglier and huger.

[Ertrick36]

^ Dude, all the way.

I've always loved the conspiring ways of Gharnef in the Akaneia series. Or the mass confusion in the Lycian league in FE6 and 7. Or just Daein in RD attacking Crimea because they're just power-hungry bastards.

Political intrigue and international chaos are two things I love in a story about war. These things make everything so much more interesting.

[maninbluejumpsuit]

I was more referring to non-stationary units that carry them (like in the gold-grinding DLC). Though for those bosses, why not just give them forged standard 1-2 weapons and slap some skills on them that negate the adverse effects in a way that's fair? Besides, I don't understand how generic boss mook number 142 gets a silver javelin, but the all the royal retainers only get standard-issue weapons.

There are no skills that can make a javelin follow up, crit, trigger offensive skills, or passively give +5 speed, and even if there were, the boss misses out on potential skills to actually make them a threat compared to any decent player unit.

Boss unique 1-2 range weapons are fine. If anything, javelin and handaxe were overnerfed.

[B.Leu]

Let me rephrase that before I get a heart attack from Caeda's stare: Who wants the kids, who are here purely made of plot device of anime in a plot made of anime ?

Because I don't have anything against units making babies a-la FE4.

If it's any reconciliation, I hate the wheel and am not a fan of the later games' pandering/preachy writing style.

That was actually what I was talking about, so it is a pretty good reconciliation. I would give you a handshake if you were present.... physically, in front of me, I mean.

Also, I agree with, Loki, that's sum up what a lot of people think about it.

And yeah, can't fully blame them. You don't change a recipy that work after all, and it's their jobs that are on the line. Though some of their choice are... weird.

Edited June 9, 2016 by B.Leu

[CrimeanRoyalKnight]

Let me rephrase that before I get a heart attack from Caeda's stare: Who wants the kids, who are here purely made of plot device of anime in a plot made of anime ?

Because I don't have anything against units making babies a-la FE4.

No dude I should've specified that I am not ok with children in this game either... just that my IRL friends like them and have said that they wouldn't have bought the game if there weren't kids. This I heard from other casuals (IRL) too, and even in this forum a lot of people wanted S supports and children back (they were quite about it).

There is still a lot of people, casual, newcomer, veteran, pro, etc, who are not very happy with the inclusion of kids too. I wonder if it's a vocal minority though.

A lot of kids scored low in the popularity polls, though (aside from the kids of the popular guys bar Kiragi). Let's hope it sends a message to IS, because to me making these units children was a waste of maps, gaiden chapters, and other fun things they could've brought back.

Edited June 9, 2016 by CrimeanRoyalKnight

[Captain Karnage]

we somehow beat Thane here

I actually prefer my castle to awakening's traveling overworld

the problem with Fate's overworld is that it uses a geographical map instead of a political map making it MUCH harder to tell where we are and where the countries are like previous games did

Edited June 10, 2016 by Captain Karnage

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

They're a lot of stuff that I think was poor in action, but everyone's pretty much said everything, so there's no point in beating a dead horse.

However, seeing this and other threads gave me a good understanding on the faults of the series nowadays. I especially like Thor's post on the story, as it's pretty common from the FEs that I've faced. I still enjoy the games and the media and glad that it's becoming more well-known, but I hope that IS will go back to some of old stuff that people seemed to miss.

Which also brings up another thing: will new players who enjoyed the series actually enjoy the old mechanics of the games like durability, weight, etc? And will old players actually welcome back the change? I know a lot of the new things generally let down long time fans, but will removing or revamping these things really satisfy them? I mean, Magic was broken in Awakening, and now it's nerfed to being pretty much non-existent. A lot of people really hate the inclusion of kids, but if they're gone, will people really be glad? These things are generally there to give the player more freedom, and in the older games that wasn't the case, which usually made the game more challenging and actually had to make players think hard. Some may see that as being fun, while some see that as being too limited. I dunno. I think I find it kind of ironic that I'm saying that since my first FE game was Awakening, and I generally thought that making your unit as OP as possible was the goal like any RPG.

[Blade]

I feel like Awakening was better than Fates because it kept the main focus on Chrom than Robin in the story and the Gangrel Arc. Everything has been said about how bad Awakening is and the fact I've never played it to begin with.

Since the avatar is the main lord of Fates, he or she is obviously customizable for everyone, but I feel like the avatar creation of Fates feels like a downgrade from Awakening. Awful hair choices, bleh eyes, and less body types than Awakening! The theme of choice was marketed heavily in Fates and there isn't much choice aside from Boots' survival. Not to mention you had to make it already in the US and Europe releases, defeating the whole purpose of choosing without coughing up more money.

Fates story is just a disappointment of a story compared the older games. It's impossible to get immersed into the world with the lack of world building, avatar pandering, and little to no gray morality between two kingdoms that clearly look like Good vs. Evil. The characters revolve around the avatar to the point there's not much else to them in the story outside of supports; Camilla is the worst offender.

I don't want to go any further to beat a horse that's been sent through hell and back; this was just my two cents on the matter.

They're a lot of stuff that I think was poor in action, but everyone's pretty much said everything, so there's no point in beating a dead horse.

However, seeing this and other threads gave me a good understanding on the faults of the series nowadays. I especially like Thor's post on the story, as it's pretty common from the FEs that I've faced. I still enjoy the games and the media and glad that it's becoming more well-known, but I hope that IS will go back to some of old stuff that people seemed to miss.

Which also brings up another thing: will new players who enjoyed the series actually enjoy the old mechanics of the games like durability, weight, etc? And will old players actually welcome back the change? I know a lot of the new things generally let down long time fans, but will removing or revamping these things really satisfy them? I mean, Magic was broken in Awakening, and now it's nerfed to being pretty much non-existent. A lot of people really hate the inclusion of kids, but if they're gone, will people really be glad? These things are generally there to give the player more freedom, and in the older games that wasn't the case, which usually made the game more challenging and actually had to make players think hard. Some may see that as being fun, while some see that as being too limited. I dunno. I think I find it kind of ironic that I'm saying that since my first FE game was Awakening, and I generally thought that making your unit as OP as possible was the goal like any RPG.

Fates' split games were made to cater to both sides of the fanbase, but I don't think they're making another dual release for some time. IS will have to fine a compromise on the mechanics of future games to cater to the expanded FE community, but not everyone will be happy with what IS releases out in god knows what.

[Ertrick36]

There are no skills that can make a javelin follow up, crit, trigger offensive skills, or passively give +5 speed, and even if there were, the boss misses out on potential skills to actually make them a threat compared to any decent player unit.

Boss unique 1-2 range weapons are fine. If anything, javelin and handaxe were overnerfed.

As I said, it's a result of an overarching issue (overnerf of some weapons and certain units, and some balancing problems in general). And I'll iterate that I only really hate it when generic bosses get these weapons. For me, that either means remove generic bosses entirely or make it so that not all bosses are stationary. Removed bosses would be replaced with story relevant officers (subordinates to Hans or whatever). It's just jarring for me to run into generics with special weapons when characters like Yukimura or Camilla are stuck with standard-issue equipment. I just think "who is this guy and why does he deserve a better weapon than the stuff the royals and their retainers get?"

It's obviously not a problem that they can fix with this game; the reason we bring criticism to this game is so that IS can work on improving the next game.

we somehow beat Thane here

I actually prefer my castle to awakening's traveling overworld

the problem with Fate's overworld is that it uses a geographical map instead of a political map making it MUCH harder to tell where we are and where the countries are like previous games did

Yeah, wth is up with that? Political maps have been a thing since FE4, haven't they? I know that IS just wants to show off "dem graphicz", but there are other places to do that than the world map. I particularly liked how things were presented in Sacred Stones, where you could travel freely, but when you were ready to take on a story chapter, it would give you the whole preamble on what you did and what you're about to get into (in case you spaced out your playtime and forgot where you were in the story). Or how in the old games, it'd show you all the countries and their leaders on the map at the beginning of the game.

All that presentation is gone in FE Fates.

[Slyfox]

I'll be honest, I love the idea of having your own character, but in most video games they make a mess of it. However, I loathe blank slate characters. They add nothing to the story. So why have them in the first place? On the other hand, why have your own character if said character already has a predefined personality? You might as well make them part of the regular cast.

They way I see it, the only way to have a good avatar is if you can make your own choices, whether it's dialogue or actions. Also, take risks. Surprise the players by having flaws recognized by the rest of the cast. Don't make them some sort of hero chosen by fate and loved by all. Fire Emblem: Corrin x3 was too far, Intelligent Systems.

You know a hero I really like? Hawke, from the mostly steaming pile of crap that is Dragon Age II. Hawke gets to say things in three distinct personalities, whenever you please! More importantly, Hawke is a self made (wo)man who EARNS people's respect, and at the end of the day, actually fails at stopping anything despite all his/her efforts. It takes nerve to write a FailureHero, as tv tropes calls it.

Corrin is, without a doubt, one of the worst written protagonists I've ever seen. Low quality fan fiction. Robin is passable.

Moving on...

I don't want to see children if it doesn't make sense.

Take the world map from Fates, but add the roads, landmarks (chapters) and borders Awakening-style to it and I'll be happy.

Character designs need to be a tad more realistic. Most characters don't even look like they belong in an army!

Cutscenes before and after each chapter are too short.

Characters need more prominence during the story, not just the main characters.

I'd like to know more about the history and nations of the land.

Supports take too long to grind, as well as weapon proficiency.

Less exaggerated personalities/quirks for characters.

Honestly, the list can go on.

[nordopolica]

Fates is a special sort of weird for me in that it technically is a good game, and I know that. It's mechanically sound, the characters are generally memorable if not quite well-written, and the only truly bad thing I can think of is the borderline offensive story contrivances. But at times (many, many, many times) I have difficulty accepting that.

[spoiler=BIG RANT PLEASE READ AT YOUR OWN PERIL]

Fates is in a strange position, I think, because so much of it seems forced. It is, as Loki says, formulaic; clinging to anime tropes and conventions that have worked in the past too tightly to form any reasonable identity of its own. Some people, myself included, would call this game a cheap attempt at recreating Awakening's success by emulating it almost in its entirety. From the avatar, to the children, to the unlimited supports despite the lack of story weight any of these pairing hold; so many things about Fates lack the genuine charm that Awakening seemed to have, instead opting for unadulterated favour over the player to the point that the game bends over backwards just to cater to them.

Nothing the player does is ever painted as bad. It never limits you, no matter what. Even when siding with Conquest, you are doing it "for the greater good," in that anime "we can all be friends" sort of way, not in the way that one might expect from a game called Conquest. The villains are one-dimensional moustache-twirlers who just want to make you cry for some reason, and this was a problem one might argue was carried over from Awakening.

It makes the situation so awkwardly dichotomous that the favour the game showers on Birthright and the country it portrays is overwhelming. This could have been remedied by making Garon, I don't know, NOT A SLIME MAN, and instead a loving but misguided father and ruler? The player has no reason to care for Garon, nor (on Conquest) his Hoshidan siblings, yet for the former he/she will conquer a nation and for the latter he/she will grieve and call his 'siblings' despite knowing them for only a few days. It's so contrived and can't seem to commit to one idea on either path.

Speaking of committing, the marriage system needs to be overhauled. I understand it's popular, I understand it's led to success, but it doesn't work in the grand scheme of things. I've been a big supporter of limiting supports like GBA/Tellius games, but for this to happen again it would mean IS reevaluating the entire system instead of replicating what Awakening and Fates did and, in Fates case, downgrade it. None of your choices when it comes to matchmaking or children matter, the latter being treated as afterthoughts who were hastily tacked on to development so that it just leaves a baaaaad taste in your mouth. Pairing up and getting kids with different hair colours is fun (in Awakening)! But when it seems like an absolute chore which delivers a stupid plot contrivance among the mountain that the game has already left in its wake, it's not satisfying. The former (marriage) is just a port of Awakening's system, bar the special story scenes or dialogue you got in Awakening. You can marry your siblings, a clear deviation from the plot's central themes, and even if you do this it is never acknowledged in the main storyline. They will continue calling you big sister/brother, or vice versa, and this is a poignant microcosm for the game's treatment of the main character. It is so unequivocally afraid of offending or alienating any of the players that it will let them do whatever they want despite compromising its storyline.

/rant

TL;DR

I could go on, but my main point is that the next game needs to find a real sense of self. It needs to commit to an identity; not just a clusterfuck of everything regardless of whether it fits. If they do that, and the direction is an overly-anime dating simulation-type game that we've seen hints of over the years, then so be it. But it needs to decide, and it needs to be ready to confront its audience instead of trying to please everyone at the same time.

The series needs to break away from Awakening and Fates and, if they want to port over ideas, they should meld well with the next game's premise and overall themes.

If there are children, let there be a timeskip, for example.

If there is marriage, let it be limited or unafraid of alienating potential player marriage options.

If these things come back, let them play a part (however small) in the story. In this way, the game should be accommodating the player choice, but it is one of the only ways in which Fates doesn't pander to the audience even though Awakening did.

Oh shit that was longer than I thought it would be I'm so sorry I'll spoiler it.

Edited June 10, 2016 by nordopolica

[saisymbolic]

Overall, Fates and Awakening really weren't that bad of games in the fact that I enjoyed them for what they were (even though I still regret buying BR and IK at times).

Most of the things that I would like changed have already been pointed out but:

-The Avatar system in itself is not bad but the way they implement it into the games is. Calling Corrin an Avatar in the first place is a bit of a stretch to me because the only things we truly have control over is hair color, accessory, marriage, class and stats; Corrin already has a preset personality that eliminates any "self-inserting". Now, I would be lying if I said I didn't enjoy picking hair colors, choosing husbandos/waifus and contemplating over what skills and classes to pass down to my children but, in my opinion, the formula needs a bit of reworking and refining.

-I would like a complete support system overhaul. The way the support system currently works, in my opinion, only serves to weaken the characters, particularly with the S-ranks. Having everyone supporting everyone inevitably causes some out of character moments because, quite honestly, everyone is not compatible with everyone, both in a romantic sense and a platonic sense.

-Tying in with the above, I would like more platonic and ambiguous relationships between opposite-sex characters. Honestly, I have no problem with characters getting married or having relations during a war—I'm fine with that. However, the way that the supports are set up, the characters tend to fall for each other over simple, frivolous things like being adamantly chased around by a fashionista to change clothes or being reminded of embarrassing childhood moments constantly. I don't mind the filler-ish tone some of the supports take on; I'm just asking that the "I LOVE U LETS GET MARRIED RITE FCKIN NOW!112121!@!!!" be toned down to something more like, "I think I may have some feelings for you... Can we maybe spend more time together?"

-Take some risks with the characters. For example, Tsubaki. On another thread, I stated that I liked Tsubaki over Cordelia because he was actually flawed as he was conceited and, during certain supports, you could see his perfectionism border on being maladaptive—that is, more harmful than helpful—whereas Cordelia was completely perfect in everything she set out at doing (except running and getting chrom to love her oh haha) and she was "perfectly" humble about it all. When creating the characters of Fates and Awakening, they tended to stick to a certain "gimmick" and revolve the characters around without any nuances. I felt some of the characters could have been a bit better had they pushed the envelope with some of them and focused less on incorporating that certain "gimmick" to be regurgitated like week old milk.

I think that's it for me

Edited June 10, 2016 by SaiSymbolic