The official Sothe Sucks thread

[Mufasa]

the endgame is to pick up the SS weapon wielders, except fire, light and dagger.

Alas, Baselard fits with Volke, not Sothe. THAT'S THE CATCH

Yeah. Baselard looks like it was MADE for Volke.

Peshkatz looks better for Sothe.

While Stilleto is for Heather.

Of course that's all IMO.

[sandmanccl]

I HATE Edward. So I won't get into that. But personally, why bother training and having near heart attacks about a unit when a perfectly good unit of the same class and better relationship with from Por comes along and does not need the constant babying that the other needs.

Zihark's luck is atrocious for a swordmaster. Swordmasters have always relied on being a class with good dodge. His strength gains are also kind of minimal. Edward requires serious RNG screwage in order to suck. Zihark doesn't really gain any experience during Part 1 of the game anyway so I always end up training Edward more and then on part 2, dump the one that's not doing as well. It's usually Zihark.

Z isn't bad at all, though, especially if you've got PoR bonuses. It's just hard to argue that Edward is bad when he clearly ends the best in a game that's all about ending the best.

[Mufasa]

Zihark's luck is atrocious for a swordmaster. Swordmasters have always relied on being a class with good dodge. His strength gains are also kind of minimal. Edward requires serious RNG screwage in order to suck. Zihark doesn't really gain any experience during Part 1 of the game anyway so I always end up training Edward more and then on part 2, dump the one that's not doing as well. It's usually Zihark.

Z isn't bad at all, though, especially if you've got PoR bonuses. It's just hard to argue that Edward is bad when he clearly ends the best in a game that's all about ending the best.

Are Edwards caps different from Zihark and Stefans? Cause when I used them all the caps were the same.

And my Edward always gets RNG screwed. And my Zihark has the boost from Por, so when he caps nearly everything on swordmaster, I BEXP abuse him to cap everything before promotion to Trueblade. Usually the only place he doesn't cap is magic. Or Luck, but even luck he only misses by one or two points.

I really hate Edward's personality. And I think there's also the thing with: I loved pretty much all the swordmasters in Por, and when I first saw Edward I thought: "Who the hell does this guy think he is trying to be Stefan, Zihark, or Mia. Eff this guy!"

But like I said, my Edward always gets RNG screwed. Sometimes he'll even lack in spd. Which is crazy for any swordmaster.

[sandmanccl]

It's crazy for anyone with over 70% gains in a stat to get screwed on it, yeah.

I guess again I don't look at characters at all for their personality or looks or anything like that, which seems to make me a minority here on the forums. If Fire Emblem was reduced to mindless maps without any sort of plot driving it, I don't think it would bother me in the least.

[Mufasa]

It's crazy for anyone with over 70% gains in a stat to get screwed on it, yeah.

I guess again I don't look at characters at all for their personality or looks or anything like that, which seems to make me a minority here on the forums. If Fire Emblem was reduced to mindless maps without any sort of plot driving it, I don't think it would bother me in the least.

Well, that's kinda good though. Cause you can say the facts about a unit and not be swayed by personal bias. Like I am with Edward.

[Reikken]

Zihark's luck is atrocious for a swordmaster. Swordmasters have always relied on being a class with good dodge.

Yet he still has easily the highest avoid (other than Lucia) since he is the only one with an affinity that grants avoid.

Edward requires serious RNG screwage in order to suck.

Nah, he can suck without it. His offense takes screwage to suck, but his defense is poor. He has low def, and his avoid isn't high enough to be reliable at all, thanks to both his affinity and Micaiah having no leadership stars.

a game that's all about ending the best.

You may see it that way, but many (including me) don't. In fact, I see the ending as the part that matters the least since you get a ton of ready-to-go-as-is units at the end.

Edited October 13, 2008 by Reikken

[Mufasa]

Going along with what Reikken said (Awesome name BTW) I've had Edward pretty screwed in the avoid area as well.

I remember a point where three enemies in a row, all with less than 30 hit, killed Edward after they attacked him. All three of them hit him.

That's enough to be a deal breaker for me.

[Admiral "Bull" Halsey]

Going by the worst cap of FE10. Along with Heather, yes their caps are pathetic compare to the rest of your available team. But Sothe does serve a major role in Pt. 1 in terms of utility and later in the game. So he's between a mediocre.

[Florete]

How strange, 'cause she killed a transformed red dragon without Bane, Baserlard or Adept.

You left out the part where she had Dragonfoe.

When did this topic become about Edward, a pretty awesome character I might add? Though not as good as Mia or Zihark of course.

[_____]

Are Edwards caps different from Zihark and Stefans? Cause when I used them all the caps were the same.

And my Edward always gets RNG screwed. And my Zihark has the boost from Por, so when he caps nearly everything on swordmaster, I BEXP abuse him to cap everything before promotion to Trueblade. Usually the only place he doesn't cap is magic. Or Luck, but even luck he only misses by one or two points.

I really hate Edward's personality. And I think there's also the thing with: I loved pretty much all the swordmasters in Por, and when I first saw Edward I thought: "Who the hell does this guy think he is trying to be Stefan, Zihark, or Mia. Eff this guy!"

But like I said, my Edward always gets RNG screwed. Sometimes he'll even lack in spd. Which is crazy for any swordmaster.

No, they aren't. Edward's more likely to reach those caps than Zihark, though. Stefan's just terrible in comparison to the others.

Gotta' go with Sandman on this one. It's hard to get screwed with 70% growths. When you don't consider the boost, which I don't because I don't have PoR, and I think it's a terribly stupid arguement in a debate, you can see that Zihark is lacking in the Luck department, which is rather important, despite what many think, especially for a Trueblade.

Ironic how he destroys two of those units, and ties with the other in usefulness, isn't it?

Lacking Luck without RNG screwage is worse.

Going along with what Reikken said (Awesome name BTW) I've had Edward pretty screwed in the avoid area as well.

I remember a point where three enemies in a row, all with less than 30 hit, killed Edward after they attacked him. All three of them hit him.

That's enough to be a deal breaker for me.

Did you just restart from the point you left off at? ._. The game remembers what it's going to do.

You left out the part where she had Dragonfoe.

When did this topic become about Edward, a pretty awesome character I might add? Though not as good as Mia or Zihark of course.

Edward blows Zihark out of the water and is on par with Mia. They both start out pretty useless until you train them, anyway.

@Xanatha: I'm pretty sure there are no Dragons in Part 2, the Part we're talking about.

Edited October 13, 2008 by ChaosNinji

[Florete]

Edward blows Zihark out of the water and is on par with Mia. They both start out pretty useless until you train them, anyway.

Edward is great, I did say that. But he dies rather easily at first, a problem the other two likely won't have, and they all turn out pretty much the same, save for Edward doesn't have Resistance. They also have the potential of transfer bonuses, making them slightly better. For Zihark's defense, Earth affinity is pretty hax.

[sandmanccl]

Yet he still has easily the highest avoid (other than Lucia) since he is the only one with an affinity that grants avoid.

Earth affinity does give you a shitload of dodge, but you forget that Thunder affinity grants +dodge. It's not as extreme, but easily gets the job done on a guy with suck incredible luck and speed scores as Edward is capable of, with the bonus of helping out the class' inherent low defense gains.

I'm not a big fan of earth affinity supports. I find them borderline pointless except in the very early stages of the game. Guys like Edward, that max luck and speed, don't need it in the long run. Zihark does, which is probably one of the reasons they gave him Earth affinity. If I have a guy that still could use a bit of help in the dodge area, I'd rather go with Dark or Thunder support.

Nah, he can suck without it. His offense takes screwage to suck, but his defense is poor. He has low def, and his avoid isn't high enough to be reliable at all, thanks to both his affinity and Micaiah having no leadership stars.

Saying his defense is poor is saying that all Trueblades have poor defense. (For the record, I think they all do.) Edward and Zihark have the same growths, while Lucia's is worse and Mia and Stefan's is only better by 5%. Ed will have a point less than Z on average as a level 3 Swordmaster, but his base support will cover that. As I said with his avoid, that's entirely depending on the difficulty you're on and how much you level him in the first three maps of the game. His avoid is much better than Z's at equivalent levels. I realize Z has a pretty significant level advantage most of the time, but if you use Edward as your "main" unit in the first 3 or 4 maps of the game, you'd be surprised at how equal they are even with the level disparity.

You may see it that way, but many (including me) don't. In fact, I see the ending as the part that matters the least since you get a ton of ready-to-go-as-is units at the end.

The end-game is the most stat-reliant section of the whole thing. That's why I say ending well matters most. Because it's so easy to focus on just a unit or two in any given party to fill out your end-game roster and every single unit is passable but 3 (for the record, that's Fiona, Lyre, and Gareth, Gareth easily being the worst because he actually joins as a trash unit END-GAME), I have a hard time saying that anyone who clearly doesn't end as well is "better" than one who is utterly god-mode.

If I want to just mow through the game with the multiple Jeigans they give you, I could easily do so. Zihark and Tormod can pretty much duo part 1 for you if you feel so inclined. Shinon and Titania can do that for you on Ike's chapters. Geoffrey and Kieran can do it for you on the Royal Knights maps. Then you can just use the Laguz royals to beat everything else into submission. There's no fun in that, if you ask me.

@Lyle: Don't blame a unit just because the RNG screwed him over. Getting hit 3 times in a row by 30%s is like having three consecutive batters get a hit on you in baseball. It happens, but it's pretty damn rare.

My first playthrough, my best swordmaster unit was Lucia. *shrugs*

[sandmanccl]

No, they aren't. Edward's more likely to reach those caps than Zihark, though. Stefan's just terrible in comparison to the others.

Stefan's only weakness is that he joins so late that it's hard to build up his supports to higher levels. He caps everything around level 12 or so which is a mere 4 levels away from when he joins, and he requires absolutely no work at all.

Stefan is probably one of my favorite swordmasters in the whole series, and I'm not a fan of the class as a general rule. *shrugs*

[_____]

Edward is great, I did say that. But he dies rather easily at first, a problem the other two likely won't have, and they all turn out pretty much the same, save for Edward doesn't have Resistance. They also have the potential of transfer bonuses, making them slightly better. For Zihark's defense, Earth affinity is pretty hax.

In, say, the first few chapters. However, once he starts becoming 10~, you can just forge him a sword with full Crit and watch the enemies fall. You could even give him Zihark's Killing Edge. Mia won't be dying, sure, but she won't be able to damage anything. She's got terrible base STR. It's the same as Rolf's! The enemies in Part 1 don't have stupidly high defenses, so Edward can kill them easily. As I've noted, I don't take Transfer Bonuses into account. I will admit that the Earth affinity is pretty h4x, but you could always do Nolan and Vloug.

[Fireman]

Should we continue this in a different topic? It's not even about Sothe or even whispers and assassins anymore.

[Florete]

Stefan's only weakness is that he joins so late that it's hard to build up his supports to higher levels. He caps everything around level 12 or so which is a mere 4 levels away from when he joins, and he requires absolutely no work at all.

Stefan is probably one of my favorite swordmasters in the whole series, and I'm not a fan of the class as a general rule. *shrugs*

He's not capping luck, and he isn't too likely to cap defense or resistance either.

Should we continue this in a different topic? It's not even about Sothe or even whispers and assassins anymore.

What's happening is normal. Sothe is awesome.

[Mufasa]

No, they aren't. Edward's more likely to reach those caps than Zihark, though. Stefan's just terrible in comparison to the others.

Gotta' go with Sandman on this one. It's hard to get screwed with 70% growths. When you don't consider the boost, which I don't because I don't have PoR, and I think it's a terribly stupid arguement in a debate, you can see that Zihark is lacking in the Luck department, which is rather important, despite what many think, especially for a Trueblade.

Ironic how he destroys two of those units, and ties with the other in usefulness, isn't it?

It's really not a stupid argument. The boost can greatly affect a unit's usefulness. Edward has no oppurtunity for a boost, while Zihark and Stefan do. The fact that you don't have Por is your fault, and it's not an argument that should be thrown away. But merely considered.

Let's look at some comparisons:

Zihark starts at a high level, but low in stats without the boost from Por. If you have the boost, he's probably better than Edward.

Edward starts out low-leveled, but he has good oppurtunity to grow.

Zihark come with adept, which is a much better skill then Wrath. Wrath will only help you when you're severly injured, and frankly, with Edward he's either never going to be injured later in the game, or he's going to be killed before wrath can activate. If you plan on moving one of those skills to the other unit, Zihark is already able to take that skill.

My Edward always gets RNG screwed. Whether it's in stats or battle, he gets RNG screwed. Frankly, I'm more concentrated on raising Micaiah for the first few chapters, and Eddie falls behind. Then Zihark comes along with his killing edge and criticals the shit out of everyone.

Lacking Luck without RNG screwage is worse.

Did you just restart from the point you left off at? ._. The game remembers what it's going to do.

I did restart. But similar occasions happen all the time. One time a guy with 11% hit rate hit him.

Edward blows Zihark out of the water and is on par with Mia. They both start out pretty useless until you train them, anyway.

@Xanatha: I'm pretty sure there are no Dragons in Part 2, the Part we're talking about.

Edward does NOT blow the water out of them. He's about equal to Stefan, and pales in comparison to Zihark. Tactically, it's better to use Zihark>Edward, because you'll have to constantly baby Edward which is something you have to do to too many DB members. Zihark will need a little babying later on, but he starts out decent and with a little luck can turn out to be one of your best units.

And ITT, we're talking about how a unit does throughout the entire game. Not just one part.

[_____]

Stefan's only weakness is that he joins so late that it's hard to build up his supports to higher levels. He caps everything around level 12 or so which is a mere 4 levels away from when he joins, and he requires absolutely no work at all.

Stefan is probably one of my favorite swordmasters in the whole series, and I'm not a fan of the class as a general rule. *shrugs*

Stefan's not useful at all, save his Vague Katti. He's got less screentime than Tormod, which is really bad, and by the time you reach him, you'll already have an Endgame team worked out.

[Mufasa]

My Stefan always caps everything but Magic.

Granted I have to use a few Ashera icons, but there's 4 or them. There's only one talismin as far as I know. And Res is an area that Edward severly lacks in.

I'll give Edward a little credit though. Here's my list for the Trueblades:

Mia=Zihark>>Stefan=Edward>>Lucia.

[Florete]

I'll give Edward a little credit though. Here's my list for the Trueblades:

Mia=Zihark>>Stefan=Edward>>Lucia.

Just to keep everything opinionated, here's mine:

Zihark>Mia>Edward>>>Lucia=Stefan.

[Fireman]

My Stefan always caps everything but Magic.

Granted I have to use a few Ashera icons, but there's 4 or them. There's only one talismin as far as I know. And Res is an area that Edward severly lacks in.

I'll give Edward a little credit though. Here's my list for the Trueblades:

Mia=Zihark>>Stefan=Edward>>Lucia.

Well, you can't really use stat boosters in an argument because you can use them on anyone.

[Mufasa]

Well, you can't really use stat boosters in an argument because you can use them on anyone.

True. But Stefan's luck is easier to cure then Edward's Resistance.

[Liz]

my list is

Mia=Edward>Zihark>Stefan>Lucia

but i wouldn't know

[Rehab]

Sothe's bad, Stefan's fine.

[Reikken]

Earth affinity does give you a shitload of dodge, but you forget that Thunder affinity grants +dodge. It's not as extreme, but easily gets the job done on a guy with suck incredible luck and speed scores as Edward is capable of, with the bonus of helping out the class' inherent low defense gains.

Edward is light, not thunder. No avoid.

I'm not a big fan of earth affinity supports. I find them borderline pointless except in the very early stages of the game. Guys like Edward, that max luck and speed, don't need it in the long run. Zihark does, which is probably one of the reasons they gave him Earth affinity. If I have a guy that still could use a bit of help in the dodge area, I'd rather go with Dark or Thunder support.

I don't know about you, but I think a 5~10% chance to die is pretty terrible. Therefore, earth affinity is very far from pointless. Much the opposite.

Saying his defense is poor is saying that all Trueblades have poor defense. (For the record, I think they all do.)

They do. Except Zihark when he first joins has nice def.

The difference is that Zihark gets high enough avoid to make up for crappy def, while Edward doesn't.

His avoid is much better than Z's at equivalent levels.

If you don't use supports. Otherwise, Zihark wins by about 17. Even if you're leaving them without supports for some reason, Edward only wins avoid by about 5. That's not "much better".

The end-game is the most stat-reliant section of the whole thing.

Huh? How is it any more stat-reliant than any other part?

@Lyle: Don't blame a unit just because the RNG screwed him over. Getting hit 3 times in a row by 30%s is like having three consecutive batters get a hit on you in baseball. It happens, but it's pretty damn rare.

A 2.7% chance isn't that low.