Sun and Moon Competitive Discussion

[Espinosa]

Golisopod's ability switches it out before it can even attack its opponent if it's down to 50% HP. The worst variation of Defeatist ever.

[Quintessence]

What about a Hurricane pokemon?

[Deltre]

But I kinda want to use some shit mons. I already have really good mons like Azumarill and Suicune. Rotom-W is something I want to put in though. I'll keep everything you guys said in mind though, It's not like this info is going anywhere. Hell, I might even post some replays. When is Showdown opening back anyway?

Are there any dedicated rapid Spinners that can benefit from this team. Hopefully fast with access to a switching move.

Could always use Vikavolt :p dunno if it's shit or not since the game just came out but it's at the very least unconventional. Slow Volt Switch is actually great in a lot of situations, and looking at showdown it has almost 150 base Special Attack which is hilarious. Speaking of slow Volt Switch, you could try Forretress as a dedicated spinner with a momentum grabbing move. Tentacruel + Rain Dish would also benefit from Rain. Showdown is totally playable if you do private matches by the way, just no ladder yet.

EDIT:

By the way, I didn't see that Leech Life is totally viable now. Go ahead and use that if you're going to use Golisopod.

Golisopod's ability switches it out before it can even attack its opponent if it's down to 50% HP. The worst variation of Defeatist ever.

That's actually worthless, and this is coming from a guy that spent 95% of his Gen 6 playtime in NU. I can say with 100% confidence that this guy is going straight to PU; that skill is actually so bad I think my stomach just did a backflip. Do you at least get to choose who you switch into or is it random like Roar?

Edited November 18, 2016 by Deltre

[Moblin Major General]

Golisopod's ability switches it out before it can even attack its opponent if it's down to 50% HP. The worst variation of Defeatist ever.

It's basically an Eject Button, except it's an ability. Also, it only works once, so it can switch in, Focus Sash a hit, and do a random switch, hopefully to a Pokemon that isn't the one you switched out. Also, has anyone gotten the chance to evaluate Salazzle and it's broken ability?

[Quintessence]

Salazzle looks pretty good, toxic + venoshock seem her best way with Corrosion. Fire blast and idk Nasty Plot for some stronk hits. I'm totally using her.

[Espinosa]

Pretty sure you choose who switches in, but I could be wrong.

It's basically an Eject Button, except it's an ability. Also, it only works once, so it can switch in, Focus Sash a hit, and do a random switch, hopefully to a Pokemon that isn't the one you switched out. Also, has anyone gotten the chance to evaluate Salazzle and it's broken ability?

That sounds about as useful as just just sending all of your Pokemon in and out repeatedly until they all die. The teamslot would be best used by anybody who actually, you know, does something.

[Deltre]

Pretty sure you choose who switches in, but I could be wrong.

That sounds about as useful as just just sending all of your Pokemon in and out repeatedly until they all die. The teamslot would be best used by anybody who actually, you know, does something.

This times about a million.

So I actually had the chance to sit down for a minute and look at all the new mons, and tried to place them where I think they'll eventually end up. I actually tried to analyze them all and give some quick thoughts on each, though I only made it as far as the Tapu - mons with the analysis. I'll finish it eventually haha.

Araquanid - NU maybe but probably PU - Water Bubble is a neat skill, but Water Absorb shuts it down entirely. Band seems like the only viable set since you want to hit things as hard as possible, and Base 70 atk isn't going to go very far even with that wild skill. Doesn't have a great physical movepool, and it's support move pool doesn't exist to take advantage of it's solid bulk. Not PU initially because I believe Band + Liquidation to be pretty strong (haven't done calcs this is all theorymon baby) and it has just enough bulk to be annoying to OHKO, although it could drop with time depending on how the game develops.

Bewear - Solid NU - I like this guy. Solid bulk and good STAB in Fighting, I could see Sp.Def Bulk Up being a thing. Unfortunately that Normal Type hurts it's viability in higher tiers, and it's really hurting for more reliable recovery. Pain Split isn't bad, but Slack Off would make this guy so much better.

Bruxish - UU or Very Good in RU - I think this guy is a little to slow for OU, but might do alright in UU as a less insane Crawdaunt. Strong Jaw is the ability, with Swords Dance/ Aqua Jet / Psychic Fangs / Aqua Tail or Waterfall. I don't think Dazzle will be that great in the long run, at least not for singles. It is a neat idea though, in Gen 6 it would be a godsend, but since Talonflame is all washed up now it's not all that.

BuzzSWOLE - Maybe UU but more than likely RU (But an absolute MONSTER) - Poor guy, if only Game Freak bothered to give him Close Combat he might be able to compete. Unfortunately, with Heracross running around up there in UU, this guy is just not gonna cut it I'm afraid. With a worse movepool and speed tier, there's almost nothing Heracross can't do better. Buzzwole does have a huge lead in Def, so he won't get chipped down quite as easily, but both are destroyed by the same mons anyways, it's just that Heracross is a little more versatile in the way he does it. Oh and since Hera has Guts, Buzzswole isn't even stronger. Bulk Up + Roost is the one thing that might keep this guy UU, but I question even that since UU has no shortage of ways to deal with this guy on the special side. Time will tell for this one.

Celesteela - NU UU - Skarmory without the support moves, speed, or physical defense. Gave it some more thought and it might go as high as UU.

Comfey - RU with some use in UU depending on... - Does Triage effect Aromatherapy by chance? If so this guy has a niche as a cleric with priority. He might be able to compete with Florges if so, but otherwise I think Florges wins out for Wish-Passing and a more threatening offensive presence, even uninvested. The difference in phys def is mostly negated by Florges's superior HP, but Comfey does have some nice speed and can function as a pivot as well, but then he has to compete with Whimsicott. I will say that he seems like a nice balance between the two, it just depends on that ability. He'd do well in RU regardless.

Crabominable (that's just precious Game Freak) - NU or PU but great on Trick Room in any Tier - Awesome offensive typing, terrible defenses combined with pitiful speed. Avoid unless you use Trick Room where this guy would actually be terrifying. Ice type that breaks for itself? Yes please.

Decidueye - PU - Really cool design and typing, but almost literally nothing else. Too slow to be a setup sweeper, and too shallow of a support movepool to capitolize on bulk. Maybe in the inevitable 3rd game when there are some more move tutors floating around he can reach his full potential and go all the way up to NU.

Dhelmise - PU - Worse than Gourgeist in every way. Is a spinner I guess? But it's also probably slower than most Spinblockers and will take a ton of damage trying to take it down, seeing as it has no Speed to speak of. After that, anything can revenge it since again, no speed and shockingly, no priority.

Drampa - NU - NU dragon hype! Seriously though, with a stat spread like that it would be lucky to see use. Even NU has about 5 staple mons that completely shut him down, so he may even go to PU. He does have a nice move pool and good SpAtk, but good luck getting to take advantage of that! Having a Normal typing really screwed this guy, since without the Fighting weakness he might be alright.

Goliospod - FU - Bad ability is bad

Gumshoos - PU - Well, this guy could have been good, but since he's not actually fast or strong or bulky enough to threaten anything and take advantage of it's one cool feature (it's ability), it's most definitely PU.

Guzzlord - Good in NU - I initially wanted to place this guy higher, but after getting over the sheer WTFery of his HP stat, I'm thinking a little more rationally on it. Lots of HP, but very little in the way of Defense, and he has a few crippling weaknesses. Notably, to Bug, Fairy, Fighting, and other Dragons. It's movepool is alright but it doesn't have anything going for it other than that, and it's attacking stats while passable, are nothing special.

Incineroar - PU - see Decidueye except without the chance of moving up, and add Stealth Rock weakness too for good measure.

Kartana - Banned probably - Good luck switching into this thing! Grass and Steel aren't great offensively, but it's coverage movepool isn't that bad, and also it's at a very trolly 109 Speed. It gets Swords Dance with a whopping 131 defense to use it with, and also basically has Moxie for all it cares (for a Scarf set maybe?). Also, what it lacks in offensive typing, it more than makes up for excellent defensive typing. Although it does not have high HP, one Swords Dance is really all it's going to take, especially if it's still healthy enough to take some priority. And again, Scarf can easily be a thing. I think that Game Freak probably meant for you to raise Speed w/ Beast Boost if you ran Scarf, but Adamant Scarf has 507 Atk vs 478 Spe so...?

Komala - PU - Too slow, not strong enough, no bulk, bad type, etc.

Kommo-o - UU - Now this one is pretty neat. It has really great stats across the board, and a variety of different set-up moves from Bulk Up, to Dragon Dance, to Swords Dance to Autotomize. It actually has the bulk and typing to put these to use, and even gets Taunt to put the hurt on Stall. It's offensive movepool is pretty wide, but it's lacking in Fighting STAB. If only this thing got Drain Punch, it would break UU wide open. Still, I think this guy will do very well in UU, all things considered, serving as a more balanced approach to Haxorus.

Lurantis - PU - Servine but worse. Gets Defog, but has less moves otherwise, is less bulky, and is so much slower that I think you'd be very hard pressed to Defog unless you come in on something that 1) Can't kill you and 2) You force out.

Lycanroc - NU - Cool mon, not that great. Rock priority is cool, but other than that it's movepool is a bit shallow. It has good enough speed and attack however that it might make for a decent offensive rocker since it can actually take on Xatu. It has a fast Taunt so that's nice, and rock is an alright type in and of itself. If only it got Earthquake, then we'd be talking.

Lycanroc!Midnight - PU (Or NU if the normal form decides it) - The added bulk just isn't worth losing 30 points of Speed. Again, if it had a better movepool this form might actually have a chance to shine, but at least with the base form you'd only need Swords Dance to get going offensively. The slower speed just hurts this guy in terms of a supportive role.

Magearna - OU or Fantastic in UU - Now we're talking. This thing has an absolutely amazing typing in Steel/Fairy, and some fantastic stats to back it up. I see Calm Mind being very good, but it can also easily work as a pivot of sorts (in fact I think Pivot will be standard). Pain Split helps it stay in the game, it has two good STAB options including a Fairy Type Draco Meteor, as well as Volt Switch for momentum and BoltBeam for coverage. The way it's ability is worded seems to imply when an ally faints it gets stronger, but if not then you're looking at a Special Moxie. I think OU for sure but I don't typically like OU if last gen is any indication so I hope it falls :p

Mimikyu - NU or Pretty Good in PU- Well they finally did it. Game Freak finally killed Pikachu. It was only a matter of time. From a competetive standpoint though I don't understand the ability. It seems to imply that on it's first hit, it takes no damage? That's pretty cool. It should have a nice home in NU as an alternative to Mismagius's fast bulky support set, with it's slightly better typing. No Levitate hurts though, and Mismagius is stronger when hitting a neutral target, on top of being faster. Still, I think Fairy STAB on the whole is better, but this could be a case of New Toy Syndrome, and this guy does have 4MSS so only time will tell.

Minior - PU - Sorry man, Shell Smash isn't enough to be relevant these days. Carracosta, Barbaracle, and Crustle do this whole schtick about a million times better, due to typing and less restrictive abilities. Maybe down in PU where there isn't so much priority this guy will have a chance to shine.

Mudsdale - PU - Neat ability, bad coverage. He'll be annoying as hell in PU, I'll give him that, but no recovery really breaks this whole deal and knock him off his high horse.

Necrozma - UU - Obviously not quite as bulky as the moonduck, but it does have far more power to back it up, and an ability that helps against super-effective attacks. I would just go full Cress with a Sub/CM cleaner set, but it does actually have some decent support moves as well with Screens a Stealth Rock. EDIT: Oh yeah, did I mention Stored Power? Because he gets Stored Power. Nevermind that whole RU thing, straight to UU for this guy. Even if he is competing with Cress, it has enough in it's favor to set it apart I feel. If you want to go balls to the wall annoying, it gets Iron Defense too, but beware Status since you'll need to forgo Substitute.

Nihilego - RU - A bulky guy like this? Why, he'd be right at home in RU wouldn't you say? Pretty decent hazard support with both Rocks and T-Spikes, and a pretty decent (for the tier) 103 Speed. He'll hit like a truck with a nice 127 SpAtk, and he even gets some pretty good coverage moves with Grass Knot, Dazzling Gleam, and Tbolt. Acid Spray is good too, and Mirror Coat might see some use with his respectable SpDef. Unfortunately, Rock and Poison don't mesh well Defensively or Offensively, and he's EQ bait so I don't see him going much higher than RU. Nonetheless, he's solid.

Oranguru - PU - Cool design for such a trash mon. Not fast or strong enough, no bulk, no hope, no use.

Oricorio (All Forms) - PU - Nah. Hurricane isn't saving you from those base stats man. Fire/Flying is bad unless you have something great to back it up, which Oricorio does not. Psychic isn't a particularly great STAB, especially when you can't deal with Steel Types. Electric could have been okay, but was ruined by the stat distribution, and Ghost might be usable as a spinblocker, but not much else.

Pallosand - PU - Palloshit.

Passimian - Damn good in NU - I can't wait for this guy to fall into NU. FINALLY we have a decent way of punishing Defog. I love Pawniard, but that really wasn't cutting it. 80 Spe is actually quite decent in NU, allowing you to outspeed a number of things and Fighting STAB is great. Shame it doesn't get Knock Off, but that's probably for the best. It gets Brutal Swing, at the very least. Stacked up to Sawk, he's almost as strong, almost as fast, but Defiant really makes this guy stand out. He's also considerably bulkier than his blue friend, and has access to U-Turn which is probably the only thing that could actually make Sawk better. A- to A+ Tier NU mon.

Pheromosa - Banned - Way too fast, with way too good Offensive stats in both physical and special. Please tell me what switches into HJK / U-Turn / Poison Jab / Ice Beam @ Life Orb? It really doesn't matter that OU is full of strong priority, when it outspeeds and kills nearly everything without it, and that's not even accounting for hazards. This thing is horrible for the game, it doesn't take too much to see that.

Primarina - UU maybe RU - I really couldn't decide where to put this one. On one hand, Water/Fairy is an awesome typing, for a ton of reasons. It's stats also lend itself well to the bulky water role. On the other hand, that's really all this guy brings to the table. It's not self sufficient like other individual Water or Fairy types, though it does benefit from being both in one mon. It's pretty strong, but RU as a whole is very bulky, so it doesn't mean as much as you might think, and UU doesn't suffer any shortage of mons stronger than this one. Being a bulky water is nice, but again, it can't take care of itself like Alomomola, nor is it a wincon like Suicune. It can Toxic Stall, but only with Rest as its only recovery option, unlike Milotic. It does get Encore, which is pretty unique I suppose. Since it's a fairy, it can be a fighting check, but it definitely needs team support to stay healthy. I think I'll say UU for now, but it does have stiff competition to be sure. Tapu Fini exists, RU it is.

Pyukumuku - PU - Destiny Bond in Pokemon form. Only much, much worse.

Ribombee - NU - He's basically another take on Vivillon. No Sleep Powder hurts, but that huge increase in speed means you're free to invest more in bulk than you would be able to with Vivillon. Though Vivillon has naturally higher HP, you come out ahead due to higher overall defensive stats. I think the two can co-exist but Vivillon is probably still the stronger pick because of Sleep Powder and Hurricane.

Salazzle - UU - Wait what? Not OU? No, and I have my reasons, although he will definitely be OU when the tiers first form. He has three crippling flaws in my opinion that keep him from truly being an OU staple (though he'll have use, don't get me wrong). The first is his abysmal bulk. Fast as he may be there are no shortage of things even faster, most of which can OHKO you after one round of rocks. For example, Lopunny, Manectric, Scarf Rachi, Scarf Exca, Sand Exca, Pheromosa, Tapu Koko, Scarf Tran, Scarf Lando-T, Greninja, Weavile, Dugtrio (especially bad for you), Talonflame (RIP), Tornadus-T and a bunch of new scarfers I'm not accounting for. Not to mention mons that still don't care like Gliscor, Diancie, and Sableye. Hell, you might end up toxicing yourself courtesey of Corrosion. Additionally, in order for Corrosion to work you need to be a serious threat to whatever it is that you come in on, which leads me to my second point.

Salazzle has no moves. He has Fire/Poison STAB, Dragon Pulse, and Hidden Power. That's really bad coverage to be honest, it doesn't really do enough for me to warrant a team slot and there's about a million faster ways to beat stall than to wear them down with Toxic. Now I'll give you Steel Types (save Bisharp because that's a 50/50 not a sure thing and you die if scarf), but as for Fairies; Clefable tanks and T-Waves you, Azu murders you about 3 times with Aqua Jet, and Diancie doesn't care if you attack or Toxic. Other Fairies you'll probably beat, but you're at best going 1 for 1 with the 3 most common Fairies.

Vs. Stall, I give you that he's good on paper, but I say bad in practice. Chansey is a staple of Stall, and will invariably have Heal Bell to support the team. Additionally, Chansey itself can eat your attacks for days and since you NEED that Life Orb for the power to be an offensive presence you will quickly be worn down with no reliably recovery. Sableye is another staple mon of Stall that trashes you completely. Venusaur has a much harder time, I admit. In the end, I would say that Salazzle is good against Stall for sure (I didn't bring up Taunt, but you'd want it in this scenario), but I can't say it's really better than Mew as a stallbreaker, since Mew has staying power, which makes all the difference. Additionally, with the rocks weakness, you're fighting an uphill battle.

The final thing that makes me question his OU staying power (after everyone is done hyping the new stuff anyways) is that his defenses are pitiful for a role like this. 68 / 60 / 60 isn't doing any favors for anyone, and you need those EVs in SpAtk to stay relevant. OU has no shortage of priority, and it's good priority too. Almost every offensive mon can kill you outright, and even defensive ones can rip off anywhere from a third to a half of your health in a single hit if unresisted. With the rocks weakness, there are serious team synergy issues to consider as well. When all is said and done, I don't see Salazzle as an OU mon, but he could definitely tear it up in UU, and has a clear enough niche that he should be used sometimes, but certainly not on all or even most teams.

Shiinotic - PU - Shiinope

Silvally - PU - Most forms will be worthless, but Fairy might get some use as high as NU, and maybe some others if you get creative since Silvally has decent coverage. The problem is that he's very 'jack of all trades, master of none' in everything from his stats to his supporting moveset. No priority, no recovery, no nothing.

Tapu Bulu - UU -

Tapu Fini - UU -

Tapu Koko - OU -

Tapu Lele - OU -

Togedemaru - PU -

Toucannon - NU - Toucannot be serious

Toxapex - RU/NU -

Tsareena - NU/PU -

Turtonator - PU -

Vikavolt - RU -

Wishiwashi - FU BL3 - Thought there'd only be one in this tier, but nope. Misunderstood the ability. It's too good for NU, but I think that RU has more than enough to keep it in check. It's part of the 'bad abilities club' with Goliosopod and Archeops, but this guy is perhaps a bit too strong for NU to handle. It has alright coverage too. Overall it comes with low hit points and low speed, but if you can't deal 75% of it's health in a single hit it's going to mess up your day a bit.

Xurkitree - BL2 -

They're just opinions of course but I do consider myself to have been pretty damn good at ORAS. I can't see myself playing Showdown until the bans start to hit though. Oh well, at least they didn't unban Deoxys this time!

Someone should totally hit me up for some friendlies with more reasonable rules lol

Edited November 19, 2016 by Deltre

[Ema Skye]

Showdown is fun right now.

My thoughts on the new guys:

Decidueye is bad. Shackle+Nasty Plot+Baton Pass is about as good as it'll get. RU

Incineroar is decent for VGC. Fake Out + Intimidate is unique to it, so it should find a role. UU

Primarina is bad. Liquid Voice doesn't even boost Hyper Voice. NU

Toucannon isn't bad but it's really outclassed. NU

Gumshoos is awful. NU

Vikavolt is also really bad. NU

Craboninable is one of the worst new Pokemon. PU

Oricorio is the worst new Pokemon though. PU

Ribombee will be solid in VGC with Pollen Puff, Speed Swap and Skill Swap. Singles will limit it to Quiver Pass. RU

Lycanroc Day is decent for priority Rock. Midnight is awful. UU/NU

Wishiwashi could be okay. The ability honestly doesn't matter because even if it didn't have the shitty stats at 25% HP, it'd still get knocked out at 25% HP. BL

Toxapex is OU material and the best non-Ultra Beast/Tapu Pokemon introduced. OU

Mudsdale is kinda meh. Doesn't really stand out in the bulky ground department. RU

Araquanid has potential. Its Liquidation has an effective 255 BP after all if it's mods, making it the strongest Water type move in the game bar none. UU/BL

Lurantis is shit NU

Shiinotic isn't bad but it's outclassed. NU

Salazzle is overhyped. It's not good. NU

Bewear is bulkier than Mega Steelix on the physical side, though I wish it had Drain Punch. It's not bad actually. UU

Tsareena is bad. NU

Comfey is strictly VGC only PU

Oranguru is also VGC only. NU

Passimian is too generic. NU

Goliosopod could be okay. It's bulky and hits hard, so I could see CB sets working well. UU/RU

Pallosand is also outclassed. Needs more HP. RU

Pyukumuku is a walking gimmick. PU

Silvally isn't bad but it's lacking in moves. UU

Minior is insanely good with Shell Smash. OU/BL

Komala is too generic. NU

Turtonator is interesting though it's a bit lacking for OU. UU

Togedemaru is another Pikaclone. PU

Mimikyu has serious potential with Disguise as it's a free turn and can severely mess up any sweeper strategy. UU

Bruxish is generic and outclassed. RU

Drampa is the same. RU

Dehlmise is interesting for being a Spinner that Spinblocks. That alone gives it a solid niche. UU

Kommo-o is a bit too balanced though it has like 4 ways of setting up so it's unpredictable. BL

Tapu Koko rocks and is the premier Electric type now. OU

Tapu Lele is insane and will be an OU staple. OU

Tapu Bulu is ridiculous in both offense and team support. Stall will love this. OU

Tapu Fini is a bit lacking in the stats department, though it has the stats and moves to carve a solid niche. UU

Solgaleo is uber.

So is Lunala.

Nihilego is lacking in coverage to really be good. UU

Buzzwole is lacking in the offense department though it's really scary. UU

Pheromosa is broken once Aegislash leaves the tier.

Xurkitree is ridiculous and will probably get banned down the road. Scolipass will love this guy.

Celesteela is an interesting take on Skarmory, and it has enough tools to niche itself out. Keep an eye on it. OU

Kartana will get banned.

Guzzlord is interesting though not in a good way. UU

Necrozma has no coverage and no stats. UU/BL2

Magearna is awesome. I love it. OU

Marshadow will go Uber.

Raticate-A is awful; worse than the original. PU

Raichu-A is interesting and will be an amazing teammate for Tapu Koko. NU

Sandslash-A is meh. Inferior to Beartic for hail. NU

Ninetales-A is the best Alolan forme and is honestly really good. BL

Dugtrio-A sucks compared to the original. NU

Persian-A has a lot of interesting tools like Parting Shot and Fur Coat that could carve a niche out. BL2

Golem-A isn't bad, though I wouldn't call it good either. NU

Muk-A is actually really interesting with STAB Poison Touch Knock Off, making the move indefinitely more annoying than it already is. RU

Exeggutor-A isn't that good and might be worse than the original. NU

Marowak-A is actually pretty cool, though it'll fall when the hype dies down. RU

[Deltre]

Showdown is fun right now.

My thoughts on the new guys:

Decidueye is bad. Shackle+Nasty Plot+Baton Pass is about as good as it'll get. RU

Incineroar is decent for VGC. Fake Out + Intimidate is unique to it, so it should find a role. UU

Primarina is bad. Liquid Voice doesn't even boost Hyper Voice. NU

Toucannon isn't bad but it's really outclassed. NU

Gumshoos is awful. NU

Vikavolt is also really bad. NU

Craboninable is one of the worst new Pokemon. PU

Oricorio is the worst new Pokemon though. PU

Ribombee will be solid in VGC with Pollen Puff, Speed Swap and Skill Swap. Singles will limit it to Quiver Pass. RU

Lycanroc Day is decent for priority Rock. Midnight is awful. UU/NU

Wishiwashi could be okay. The ability honestly doesn't matter because even if it didn't have the shitty stats at 25% HP, it'd still get knocked out at 25% HP. BL

Toxapex is OU material and the best non-Ultra Beast/Tapu Pokemon introduced. OU

Mudsdale is kinda meh. Doesn't really stand out in the bulky ground department. RU

Araquanid has potential. Its Liquidation has an effective 255 BP after all if it's mods, making it the strongest Water type move in the game bar none. UU/BL

Lurantis is shit NU

Shiinotic isn't bad but it's outclassed. NU

Salazzle is overhyped. It's not good. NU

Bewear is bulkier than Mega Steelix on the physical side, though I wish it had Drain Punch. It's not bad actually. UU

Tsareena is bad. NU

Comfey is strictly VGC only PU

Oranguru is also VGC only. NU

Passimian is too generic. NU

Goliosopod could be okay. It's bulky and hits hard, so I could see CB sets working well. UU/RU

Pallosand is also outclassed. Needs more HP. RU

Pyukumuku is a walking gimmick. PU

Silvally isn't bad but it's lacking in moves. UU

Minior is insanely good with Shell Smash. OU/BL

Komala is too generic. NU

Turtonator is interesting though it's a bit lacking for OU. UU

Togedemaru is another Pikaclone. PU

Mimikyu has serious potential with Disguise as it's a free turn and can severely mess up any sweeper strategy. UU

Bruxish is generic and outclassed. RU

Drampa is the same. RU

Dehlmise is interesting for being a Spinner that Spinblocks. That alone gives it a solid niche. UU

Kommo-o is a bit too balanced though it has like 4 ways of setting up so it's unpredictable. BL

Tapu Koko rocks and is the premier Electric type now. OU

Tapu Lele is insane and will be an OU staple. OU

Tapu Bulu is ridiculous in both offense and team support. Stall will love this. OU

Tapu Fini is a bit lacking in the stats department, though it has the stats and moves to carve a solid niche. UU

Solgaleo is uber.

So is Lunala.

Nihilego is lacking in coverage to really be good. UU

Buzzwole is lacking in the offense department though it's really scary. UU

Pheromosa is broken once Aegislash leaves the tier.

Xurkitree is ridiculous and will probably get banned down the road. Scolipass will love this guy.

Celesteela is an interesting take on Skarmory, and it has enough tools to niche itself out. Keep an eye on it. OU

Kartana will get banned.

Guzzlord is interesting though not in a good way. UU

Necrozma has no coverage and no stats. UU/BL2

Magearna is awesome. I love it. OU

Marshadow will go Uber.

Raticate-A is awful; worse than the original. PU

Raichu-A is interesting and will be an amazing teammate for Tapu Koko. NU

Sandslash-A is meh. Inferior to Beartic for hail. NU

Ninetales-A is the best Alolan forme and is honestly really good. BL

Dugtrio-A sucks compared to the original. NU

Persian-A has a lot of interesting tools like Parting Shot and Fur Coat that could carve a niche out. BL2

Golem-A isn't bad, though I wouldn't call it good either. NU

Muk-A is actually really interesting with STAB Poison Touch Knock Off, making the move indefinitely more annoying than it already is. RU

Exeggutor-A isn't that good and might be worse than the original. NU

Marowak-A is actually pretty cool, though it'll fall when the hype dies down. RU

I'm really glad I read this because I'm only just now realizing that Wishiwashi works the exact opposite of how I imagined. That's what I get for checking out the new mons while tired I guess lol. And finally someone who agrees about Salazzle. I don't think it will go NU but I can only hope that you're right. Nasty Plot still hurts a lot and it's speed tier is very good though, that's my only concern with that.

I have to ask what everyone is seeing in Toxapex though. It looks like Substitute bait to me.

[UNLEASH IT]

Guys, can you give me some pointers? Here's a replay of my last battle. I'm Jibun wooo btw

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-478699019

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ou-478712364

I feel like I need to learn a lot more about the new pokemon though.

Decided to add Starmie as a spin blocker. More careless mistakes. If I memorise all the popular builds, I should be able to get a lot better.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-478719770

I won, but I really made a meal out of that one

Edited November 19, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Deltre]

Guys, can you give me some pointers? Here's a replay of my last battle. I'm Jibun wooo btw

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-478699019

http://play.pokemonshowdown.com/battle-gen7ou-478712364

I feel like I need to learn a lot more about the new pokemon though.

Decided to add Starmie as a spin blocker. More careless mistakes. If I memorise all the popular builds, I should be able to get a lot better.

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7ou-478719770

I won, but I really made a meal out of that one

First game is hard to say, since it's not a finished match. Looks like you did okay though. I really hope that guys Celesteela was banded though or I'm going to have to eat my words about that thing.

Second match you should have killed Hoopa turn one. He had no business staying in on Galvantula not once, but twice. It also helps to be able to recognize that a team full of bulky offensive mons that are slow = probably a Trick Room team. Even if it wasn't I don't think you needed Webs since your team was naturally so much faster. That comes more with recognizing builds, as you said. But you also have to know how to apply what you know, which honestly just comes with playing. That said no one knows anything about this Gen since it's so new lol.

I'm not sure why you switched to Starmie though? It's not a spinblocker haha. In order to be a spinblocker you must be a Ghost type, or knock out the opposing mon with contact damage (Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, Rocky Helment). Usually though a Ghost type is the only reliable way, but those other things can be useful in certain situations.

Edited November 19, 2016 by Deltre

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

tried some games. So far:

Tapu Koko - I love it when Mewtwo become Legal. Landorus is only real "relevant" answer and that can lose to a well predicted Dazzling Gleam/HP Ice. But seriously speaking 130 speed on an offensive power this good is ridiculous

Tapu Bulu - The mon itself almost doesn't matter(and its good, its your ussual Bulky Grass type who can hold both Choice Band and Leftovers at the same time). Grass Terrain is RIDICULOUSLY good. I can't stress enough how amazing an Aegislash with +12.5 every turn is or the sheer hilarity of seeing Aegislash surviving Landorus Incarnate Earth Power, and thats literally the most powerful Earth Power in the game. Nature Madness on this is surprisingly ok because the big, punishing response to this isn't used that much right now AKA Skarmory(Scizor and Celesteela did not have Spikes) and Celesteela is vulnerable to its lack of reliable recovery outside Leftovers

Silvally - So far he's pretty awesome. Ridiculously bulky, and parting shot is just great. The worst part of using him is at the teambiuilder screen since you just don't know what type you want, then what coverage you want, then last but not least the nature split caused by Multi Strike being Physical and its better moves are special forcing you into -speed nature on more defensively minded sets(and 95 speed is actually very good as a Neutral to outspeed key >70 mon)

Mega Metagross - This is very good in the current meta because of the amount of Fairy and Psychic Terrain it can abuse

I haven't met some heavy hitters of the meta though. Things like Greninja and Hoopa Unbound will be able to destroy most of my mon just by clicking LO/Specs Dark Pulse

Edited November 19, 2016 by JSND

[UNLEASH IT]

First game is hard to say, since it's not a finished match. Looks like you did okay though. I really hope that guys Celesteela was banded though or I'm going to have to eat my words about that thing.

Second match you should have killed Hoopa turn one. He had no business staying in on Galvantula not once, but twice. It also helps to be able to recognize that a team full of bulky offensive mons that are slow = probably a Trick Room team. Even if it wasn't I don't think you needed Webs since your team was naturally so much faster. That comes more with recognizing builds, as you said. But you also have to know how to apply what you know, which honestly just comes with playing. That said no one knows anything about this Gen since it's so new lol.

I'm not sure why you switched to Starmie though? It's not a spinblocker haha. In order to be a spinblocker you must be a Ghost type, or knock out the opposing mon with contact damage (Rough Skin, Iron Barbs, Rocky Helment). Usually though a Ghost type is the only reliable way, but those other things can be useful in certain situations.

It's like math then .

http://replay.pokemonshowdown.com/gen7pokebankou-478871289

This one was touch and go but I pulled it off.

Edited November 19, 2016 by UNLEASH IT

[Espinosa]

Tapu Koko seems weird to me tbqh. 115 base phys attack but a poor physical learnset? What's it going to use, Brave Bird and Wild Charge?

[Ema Skye]

Nothing because it's special set is bonkers.

LO Thunder OHKOs Genesect every time.

[Espinosa]

What the hell. I guess that was a necessary nerf to Electric Terrain then. Does Rotom-Wash thrive in a team with him too?

[Ema Skye]

Rotom-W works but Raichu-A and Pelipper are much better teammates.

All of the Tapus are totally nuts and some of the best Pokemon in the meta right now. Koko might be the best though because of how well it synergizes with rain.

[Espinosa]

Pelipper? Isn't it inconvenient to continuously switch from one weather to another?

I guess we can expect a ban on some of the Tapus some time soon...

[Ema Skye]

Terrains can stack with Weather.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

Tapu Koko is probably the best offensive pokemon in the meta right now, but i don't think he's as 'loljustban" level as Pheromosa

honestly Tapu Bulu is the only Tapu who'se terrain is worth building a team around since its so easy to create since its just.... generally useful.

ATM i think the most likely ban is Landorus, Aegislash, and Pheromosa.

[Deltre]

I think that Tapu Koko might get banned in the end. It can beat almost everything that checks it besides like Ferrothorn depending on what you run. It's very similar to Greninja in a lot of ways, actually. Grass Knot beats the likes of Hippo, while Brave Bird + Roost can beat Grass types like M-Venu and Amoonguss that would otherwise annoy it. I don't think that a lot of people have caught on to that yet though, but once they do planning around it is going to be a lot more irritating, and a lot more specialized. Not even to mention Calm Mind sets, that again, no one seems to use. I'm sure that once I get higher on the ladder I'm going to hate this thing. Or abuse it myself lol.

Tapu Lele is going to be silly once Aegislash is gone.

I think I underestimated Bulu initially, now I think he's a sleeper hit.

Fini is pretty bad, to be honest. I guess it would be more accurate to say I think that Fini is very underwhelming, since that typing is great no matter how you spin it. I still think it could go UU though, since I think it's ability hurts just as much as it helps. A bulky mon that can't inflict status feels very meh to me, but maybe defog and typing keep it in OU, it's too early to say.

[Thane]

So what's the best way to prepare for online battles? Festival Plaza is a bit confusing, honestly, so I guess I should start with the Battle Tree and get items? My Pokémon are so bad though so I think I need to play eugenics.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

is Megastone banned from online battle?

if it isn't, just make a Salamence squad. Regardless of format, its the most overpowered pokemon in the game by far right now

if those get banned i'd say just get some synchronizer and start breeding up stuff. With the current bottle cap, good nature is probably all you need to make the skeleton for a good mon. i'm not sure if the old mechanics of X/Y is still around, but what i used to do in XY was to catch several baby pokemon since they come free with 3 perfect IV, then use Destiny Knot x Everstone to make a "baseline parent'

Edited November 20, 2016 by JSND

[Thane]

Nah, I never use the most powerful Pokémon; I'll stick to using the ones I like, at least for the most part. I've been gathering up BP's for all those Power items so I can grind EV's; something tells me I'm going to miss Super Training.

I've been trying to breed a Type: Null. I've got Silvally and Ditto in the nursery, but I've been walking forever and no one has any egg to give me. Does the comment "they don't play together" imply they can't breed or that it's just a very low chance?

[DodgeDusk]

Been watching a bit of competitive Pokémon the past few days. Tapu Koko, Tapu Bulu, and Pherosma are all looking really good. Thinking Pherosma is gonna get banned in the upcoming weeks. Hopefully with Aegislash. I wouldn't be surprised if Koko went to Ubers eventually, too, although it's too early to call that one.

Any news on Ash-Greninja? I imagine it isn't as good as Protean!Greninja, but I suspect it's good nonetheless.

And whoever said Crabominable isn't good: try it in a Trick Room team. It's not doing much when it isn't in play, but when it is, the thing's really good. I'm not saying it's going to be OU or anything, but I wouldn't sleep on it just yet.

I've been trying to breed a Type: Null. I've got Silvally and Ditto in the nursery, but I've been walking forever and no one has any egg to give me. Does the comment "they don't play together" imply they can't breed or that it's just a very low chance?

Type: Null and Silvally can't breed.

EDIT: Oh, and if anyone feels up to it, I wouldn't mind having a few games on Showdown. Don't have the game yet (European here), so there's no other way I can play.

Edited November 20, 2016 by DodgeDusk