I wish Beerus was the strongest

[Augestein]

Literally yes.

Though, with regards to Freiza, I'm under the impression that he kinda grew into the power he had on Namek, kind of like Broly in a sense. I ended up liking Freiza more because he actually trained when he revived, instead of just reviving with more power.

Actually I hated how they handled the Freiza revive in the movie. Freiza training is cool and all, but Freiza training and somehow eclipsing the entire cast outside of people with God Ki is kind of ridiculous. And it really hurts the plot for Freiza's Saga in the first place, because the entire reason that he blew up Vegeta was because of the Super Saiyan legend. If he could just "get stronger" by training for a few months, why was there any reason to fear them that much?

Super really loses me because about 50% of the cast is useless in a cast that keeps growing. Characters are more of a flavor of the month rather than an actual character, and it sucks to see your favorite characters left in the dust with no reason way of catching up. I haven't kept up with the manga, and I saw a bit of the anime, but I thought it was just so-so (better than GT, but not great).

[Ϲharlie]

You should just think of the "stronger character" thing as a necessary evil. What is Goku going to do - beat Beerus and then fight a villain who's weaker than him?

A better idea would be to retire Goku and give some of the characters his presence renders obsolete a chance to shine.

[Original Alear]

Actually I hated how they handled the Freiza revive in the movie. Freiza training is cool and all, but Freiza training and somehow eclipsing the entire cast outside of people with God Ki is kind of ridiculous. And it really hurts the plot for Freiza's Saga in the first place, because the entire reason that he blew up Vegeta was because of the Super Saiyan legend. If he could just "get stronger" by training for a few months, why was there any reason to fear them that much?

I agree that is a bit dumb if he gets so strong so fast (didn't watch it myself). But, it's not like Freiza knew details about how strong SSJ's are. So he wouldn't necessarily have a gauge of how strong he needed to be.

A better idea would be to retire Goku and give some of the characters his presence renders obsolete a chance to shine.

That IS a good idea. I think they were maybe even planning on doing it during that arc where gohan becomes the great seiyaman. But if that was the plan, he couldn't really commit, and he brought goku back.

Edited August 31, 2016 by HELP

[Jedi]

A better idea would be to retire Goku and give some of the characters his presence renders obsolete a chance to shine.

I wish all of them would get the spotlight again, because like in Dragon Ball even Yamcha had his moments (he was also a guy who noticed things before alot of other people such as Jackie Chun being Roshi, Goku's tail being a weakness etc), and he actually had a character arc, Krillin & Tien/Tenshinhan as well (hell remember that Goku lost to him? It's kind of insane to think about how most of Goku's losses throughout his career are to people who can't even hold a candle to him now) but more so because they actually stuck in Z for awhile as fighters. At least Revival of F gave them some more but ugh its so frustrating.

Even more so now considering like, even Gohan, Goten, Trunks (although Future Trunks is at least kind of relevant again), Fat Buu and 18 can't even do anything, Piccolo somehow has managed to do ok in Super comparatively because he at least got a cool fight in the universal tournament but... Omg. Somehow Bulma is relevant again, but thats probably because Vegeta is getting more development as a family man.

Like Toriyama has all these characters who have been built up for so long with their own arcs and stuff, and yet its just the Goku & occasionally Vegeta show. Man I love Dragon Ball, but I do have to make this rant about it sometimes, (although at least the OG series kept people in check).

But this is part of why I like the Android/Cell Arc is because Goku is largely out of commission and everyone else, nearly manages to beat Cell, but the idiot ball exists in all of their hands at one point or another (Well except Tenshinhan who has one of his coolest moments)... It's weird because I don't dislike Goku, its just what he eventually became is kind of ridiculous, he's really cool in all of Dragon Ball as we see his training, and Saiyan & Frieza stuff, but post-Cell... ugh.

Edited August 31, 2016 by Jedi

[Junkhead]

If you think Freezer's power jump is silly, Black took the exact same turn. He's just above SSJ2-level, but he seems an important deal stronger than SSJB, now. Golden was actually supposedly overpowering SSJB until his timer started running out.

[Elieson]

Didn't buu have "a bottomless well of power"?

[Junkhead]

So did Broly.

[Ein]

Broly sucks

[BrightBow]

Eh, Black can't have gotten that much stronger. After his brief stay as a god, Goku's base form has gotten almost as strong as his Super Saiyan God form, as established in BoG. If his Super Saiyan forms would still multiply his power the same way they did before then he would already be far stronger then Beerus and Whis, yet he is still significantly weaker then either of them. And Goku was already able to draw out 70% of Beerus power in their fight, so the gap between Goku in his base form and Super Saiyan Blue can't possibly be that massive, let alone the gap between Blue and ssj2. At least it's a rather tiny difference compared to Freeza going from Goku Namek SSj level all the way up to god level.

Also, it's a bit early to complain about Vegeta getting worfed again, considering that Goku got stomped just as fast. It's hard to say were the fight goes from here but it's rather unlikely that Goku could beat Black right now and end the arc. So who knows what role Vegeta has yet to play.

Edited August 31, 2016 by BrightBow

[Junkhead]

So what you're basically saying is, Goku becomes weaker when he goes SSJ not-Blue.

[Jedi]

Goku still has the button he got from Zeno, so the lack of tension still exists, inb4 he uses it and Zeno just one shots Black.

[Junkhead]

inb4 the little guy oneshots Beerus for fun

[BrightBow]

So what you're basically saying is, Goku becomes weaker when he goes SSJ not-Blue.

No. I didn't say that. Like, at all.

Goku still has the button he got from Zeno, so the lack of tension still exists, inb4 he uses it and Zeno just one shots Black.

I think it's pretty much means the opposite. Zeno is one hell of a wild card. It's hard to predict what that guy would do when summoned into this hot mess involving a Supreme Kai that oversteps his boundaries and a timeline that shouldn't even exist in the first place. Not to mention that Zeno expects to be summoned in order to meet a new friend and not to help Goku messing up time and space. So from an in-universe perspective it would be best to follow Beerus advice and to keep Zeno out of the whole thing. But my guess is that it's just a matter of time until Team Black's blasphemous shenanigans will get the other gods involved. And that's when things will get really interesting.

I'd say the only tension breaker there is, is the fact that we know that there is still going to be another tournament. Until that tournament starts, characters like Black and Zeno can't rock the boat too hard. ...or the multiverse, as the case may be.

Edited September 1, 2016 by BrightBow

[Junkhead]

It's basically implied, unless the differences between transformations (especially the jump from base to Blue) is reeeeeeeaaaaaally small. Like, Frost most definitely isn't anywhere near God-level. and yet, Piccolo puts up a sort of fight. SSJs Goku and Vegeta were above that, but not so much that it was a royal shitstomp.

[BrightBow]

Well, maybe small compared to those ridiculous multipliers that were thrown around during the Power Level era. The one where Goku uses a technique that multiplies his power by 20 and barely manages to scratch the guy that he later proceeds to effortlessly dominate as a Super Saiyan. And the actual numbers weren't much better. Vegeta had a power level of 18.000 on Earth, 22.000 against Cui and 30.000 in the battle against Recoome, And after just one more boost he is suddenly able to go toe on toe with Frieza's first form with it's hilarious power level of 530.000.

Edit: Super Saiyan God or not, I'd say that starting with a sufficiently pissed of ssj2 Vegeta being able to briefly match the power of ssj3 Goku, the writers no longer seem to treat transformation levels as this unbeatable obstacle that puts characters on a whole other level where they can no longer be touched by the threats that they faced until then. That might be a bit inconsistent with the past arcs but I'm sure the stories of the franchise will ultimately be better for it.

Edited September 1, 2016 by BrightBow

[Junkhead]

I'd be really sad if Beerus dies.

Edited September 1, 2016 by Soul~!

[Augestein]

Well, maybe small compared to those ridiculous multipliers that were thrown around during the Power Level era. The one where Goku uses a technique that multiplies his power by 20 and barely manages to scratch the guy that he later proceeds to effortlessly dominate as a Super Saiyan. And the actual numbers weren't much better. Vegeta had a power level of 18.000 on Earth, 22.000 against Cui and 30.000 in the battle against Recoome, And after just one more boost he is suddenly able to go toe on toe with Frieza's first form with it's hilarious power level of 530.000.

Edit: Super Saiyan God or not, I'd say that starting with a sufficiently pissed of ssj2 Vegeta being able to briefly match the power of ssj3 Goku, the writers no longer seem to treat transformation levels as this unbeatable obstacle that puts characters on a whole other level where they can no longer be touched by the threats that they faced until then. That might be a bit inconsistent with the past arcs but I'm sure the stories of the franchise will ultimately be better for it.

I really hope that this is the case, because it's pretty lame to see so many fighters with cool techniques and stuff just go to the wayside because he can't become "Transformation x3424"

[Jedi]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oys7q3nitEU

New episode is up and has subs, its looking to be the most action packed yet

[Junkhead]

Let me just call out on the fact that a SSJ2 Trunks is putting up about as much of a fight a SSJB Goku.

[BrightBow]

So this version of Zamasu seems to be immortal now. I suppose this is how the newly established link between the Kaioshin and the Gods of Destruction could come into play. Either way it would be rather convenient if Black just so happened to be the God of Destruction of Universe 10. Or they could just kill Zamasu in the past I suppose. Maybe that Zamasu will eventually commit suicide to stop his future self.

But I am not too happy that Black and Zamasu seem to be content to simply wait for the trio to come back instead of killing them while they are vulnerable. That one is painfully contrived considering that Black was perfectly willing to chase Trunks back to the past. Why allow them to recover and risk getting Beerus involved or having them mess with Zamasu's past self? This could definitely have been handled better.

Also, Power Levels continue to be bullshit. I love it.

...well, for the most part at least. I'd say that God ki should definitely make more of a difference then that. Maybe they should just have performed the Super Saiyan God ritual with Trunks in order to get him up to god level.

Edited September 5, 2016 by BrightBow