Emeraldfox Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I guess it's "natural" but we do unnatural things all the time, the computer/phone, the car but the fact of the matter is that you can be healthy on a vegan diet. Society being screwed up doesn't mean we just sit there, we do something about it. If we had that mindset we'd be stuck in the middle ages. Let me ask you why is it fine to kill animals for literally no reason than our own pleasure when so many other things in the similar vein would be considered screwed up. I wasn't doubting that one could be healthy on a vegan diet, I was asking if it was alright for other animals to kill animals for food. It's fine to kill animals for 'pleasure' because they're gonna get eaten. Otherwise it's usually frowned upon to kill animals for no reason because that's just senseless killing. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 being vegetarian/vegan is so expensive though i didnt even realize how expensive it was until i actually tried it, esp. if you're against using ALL animal products like leather etc. not just in food & good luck being a vegetarian/vegan in college unless you've got serious $$$$$ not to mention you're basically shut out from a lot of places that don't serve vegetarian/vegan products & you have to pay so much attention to what other people are cooking for you and cooking for yourself all the time isn't an option for a lot of people eg. people that work more than one job, people who are disabled my health issues make being vegetarian/vegan even more difficult anyway so in the end it just didn't feel worth it to me but if it works for you hey man all that power to you Some great vegan staples in college are some of the cheapest foods at the grocery store: black beans, brown rice, frozen fruits and veggies, peanut butter, and pasta. These may help you, iirc people think that veganism is expensive but that's only if you spend a ton of faux meats. don't know about your health issues although if you could at least reduce your meat and dairy consumption (and find other alternatives for non food sources) i'd urge you to. I wasn't doubting that one could be healthy on a vegan diet, I was asking if it was alright for other animals to kill animals for food. It's fine to kill animals for 'pleasure' because they're gonna get eaten. Otherwise it's usually frowned upon to kill animals for no reason because that's just senseless killing. Then why don't we change that then? Why just sit there? It is senseless killing because they don't NEED to be killed. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emeraldfox Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Then why don't we change that then? Why just sit there? It is senseless killing because they don't NEED to be killed. Change what? Bruh, people get ridicule just for beating and abusing their pets. There are laws that protect animals from harm, but just the endangered ones though. But the killing of animals for the sake of feeding people is wholly accepted because we need food to survive after all. Would you tell a hunter, who's main source of income is probably related to the amount of animals they kill, to stop hunting? Would you tell them to stop providing food for their family? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Change what? Bruh, people get ridicule just for beating and abusing their pets. There are laws that protect animals from harm, but just the endangered ones though. But the killing of animals for the sake of feeding people is wholly accepted because we need food to survive after all. Would you tell a hunter, who's main source of income is probably related to the amount of animals they kill, to stop hunting? Would you tell them to stop providing food for their family? no i'm not going to tell someone i.e a sheep herder in tibet to stop. But for a good 95% of people in the first world they do not need animals to survive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Specta Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Chickens lose a lot of nutrients laying an egg and by taking that egg it's much harder for them to get it back. Granted if you give them nutritious food it's generally considered okay although vegans more than not aren't huge fans. Once the egg is laid, hens tend to abandon them, though. Even if you were to leave the egg, the chicken wouldn't do anything with it unless it had a strong calcium deficiency in its diet and had also learned to scavenge theirs and other hens' eggs (this usually happens only by accident if an egg gets broken and a hen gets curious about the remnants) or if the hen was broody and wanted to raise eggs (which is very, very uncommon and many hens never go broody in their entire lives) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) If every omnivorous animal quit eating other animals I can only consider that really screwing with.... well, just about everything really. Population most of all in particular and that would create a lot of competition (which would probably just cause a bunch of animals to die anyway... and then that'd just leave a bunch of waste around wouldn't it?). But really I think there'd be a huge chain of effects that would warp the way the entire planet runs. I don't care enough to go into much more detail trying to theorize all of the possible effects that could be caused by this (especially since I'm no expert), I'm just contributing my thought on this. But I feel like there's a reason animals eat other animals and why the food cycle is what it is. I'm not at all saying I'm satisfied with the thought that animals kill each other, but at the same time I think it helps create some kind of balance. BUT I am all for people who have a personal preference and want to be a vegan or vegetarian themselves. I just have this feeling that if everybody (or magically every omnivorous animal even) were forced to be the same in that regard, there could be some serious consequences that we haven't even considered. Like messing with nature can just provide some unexpected, and sometimes unpleasant, results and I think humans have been kicked in the butt by that a few times now haven't they? Edited September 19, 2016 by Freohr Datia Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 (edited) If every omnivorous animal quit eating other animals I can only consider that really screwing with.... well, just about everything really. Population most of all in particular and that would create a lot of competition (which would probably just cause a bunch of animals to die anyway... and then that'd just leave a bunch of waste around wouldn't it?). But really I think there'd be a huge chain of effects that would warp the way the entire planet runs. I don't care enough to go into much more detail trying to theorize all of the possible effects that could be caused by this (especially since I'm no expert), I'm just contributing my thought on this. But I feel like there's a reason animals eat other animals and why the food cycle is what it is. I'm not at all saying I'm satisfied with the thought that animals kill each other, but at the same time I think it helps create some kind of balance. BUT I am all for people who have a personal preference and want to be a vegan or vegetarian themselves. I just have this feeling that if everybody (or magically every omnivorous animal even) were to be the same in that regard, there could be some serious consequences that we haven't even considered. Like messing with nature can just provide some unexpected, and sometimes unpleasant, results and I think humans have been kicked in the butt by that a few times now haven't they? except we aren't asking for every animal to stop eating animals because they actually need those animals while we don't. Also animal agriculture already has screwed up nature quite a bit. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/opinion/meat-makes-the-planet-thirsty.html http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/this-is-how-animal-agriculture-causes-deforestation/ As countries demand more and more meat as they develop there's no way that type of production is sustainable. It's not like the world is suddenly going to vegan overnight either. It'll be a slow process, perhaps one i may not see in my lifetime. and thanks @specta, pretty interesting and might discuss this with other vegans to see their thoughts on it Edited September 19, 2016 by commie scum Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I think as technology continues to advance, we'll find a way to keep eating meat and also keep it sustainable. Before the 20th century, just raising crops was gradually causing the soil to give diminishing returns, until we figured out nitrogen fixing. I'm a strong believer that science will find a way. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 I think as technology continues to advance, we'll find a way to keep eating meat and also keep it sustainable. Before the 20th century, just raising crops was gradually causing the soil to give diminishing returns, until we figured out nitrogen fixing. I'm a strong believer that science will find a way. except there is a better way right now lol. Not a fan of any other solution in the future besides lab grown meat (although who knows how long that will take) as it will probably involve treating animals as disposable objects. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 except there is a better way right now lol. Not a fan of any other solution in the future besides lab grown meat (although who knows how long that will take) as it will probably involve treating animals as disposable objects. The sheer amount of people who try being vegetarian/vegan, then reverting back to omnivorousness shows that everyone giving up eating meat all together isn't a realistic expectation. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tryhard Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 well done op you trolled like vegans do Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 The sheer amount of people who try being vegetarian/vegan, then reverting back to omnivorousness shows that everyone giving up eating meat all together isn't a realistic expectation. yeah i know it's very likely there will never be a totally vegan world but it's worse to just sit around and do nothing. Again abolitionists had probably realized that no there will never be a slavery free world but they tried and things are MUCH better off even if we still have a ways to go. I'd at least urge all to lower their meat and dairy consumption. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 yeah i know it's very likely there will never be a totally vegan world but it's worse to just sit around and do nothing. Again abolitionists had probably realized that no there will never be a slavery free world but they tried and things are MUCH better off even if we still have a ways to go. I'd at least urge all to lower their meat and dairy consumption. Equating human rights with animal rights is a bit of a leap for most non-vegans. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Freohr Datia Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 except we aren't asking for every animal to stop eating animals because they actually need those animals while we don't. Also animal agriculture already has screwed up nature quite a bit. http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/08/opinion/meat-makes-the-planet-thirsty.html http://www.onegreenplanet.org/animalsandnature/this-is-how-animal-agriculture-causes-deforestation/ As countries demand more and more meat as they develop there's no way that type of production is sustainable. It's not like the world is suddenly going to vegan overnight either. It'll be a slow process, perhaps one i may not see in my lifetime. Ah, I thought I had read somewhere in that conversations something about all omnivores, but it turns out I was seeing things. I'm sure technology would help humans be capable of not surviving off of animals, but whether money or convenience allows for that well enough or not I'm not sure. I know convenience is considered so unimportant to some, but realistically that is not something you will convince humans (or any living creature on this planet for that matter) to ignore that. Also I'm still not sure what effect this could have wrt overpopulation for the planet, but I still feel like that's something that shouldn't be forgotten. And yeah I guess in a way agriculture is still humans messing with nature as well. Unfortunately I don't have much to comment on that with my lack of knowledge and context and I like to try avoid pretending to know things. This just isn't something I put a lot of research into ^o^ If people and nature could at some point in the future thrive with humans becoming vegan though then I would be quite happy about that. I just hope that we'd be able to make it happen reasonably enough and that we can become aware of just what we're messing with. We seem to be pretty good at learning how to overcome hurdles! With time, at least. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 Equating human rights with animal rights is a bit of a leap for most non-vegans. except i'm not equating animal rights with human rights lol. I'm just comparing how it's a similar situation in that it is very likely that slavery will never completely end but in the end doing something about it was much better then leaving it be. Animals are just as sentient as you and me and all i'm asking is that they aren't killed for such screwed up reasons. They at least deserve that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 19, 2016 Share Posted September 19, 2016 for women and for men who don't want a giant hulking upper body with puny chicken legs I asked ike and he said that while squats are a very good exercise for coverage those aren't nearly enough to cover for leg exercises on their own And if you don't trust him I can go ask his dad who is an expert on lifting and who, btw, does not skip leg day and who most likely gave ike all his lifting advice anyway Wasn't 'ike''s dad, like, buff dude. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) I literally can not spent a single day without eating some kind of meat at least twice Sorry cows, chickens and fishs (not a fan of pork or other kinds of meat), i'm selfish, enjoy how you taste and don't really give a fuck about you Edited September 20, 2016 by Nooooooooooooooooooooobody Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 You can care and still enjoy it. It's not one or other, and I know 90% of people feel this way. Yes, I feel bad for it when I'm constantly worrying and overthining, but I don't. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 You can care and still enjoy it. It's not one or other, and I know 90% of people feel this way. Yes, I feel bad for it when I'm constantly worrying and overthining, but I don't. no you can't lol. The fact of the matter is you're killing an animal that has literally done nothing to you for your own pleasure. "humane killing" and whatnot is just a way to make people feel better about themselves. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 You can care and still enjoy it. It's not one or other, and I know 90% of people feel this way. Yes, I feel bad for it when I'm constantly worrying and overthining, but I don't. of course you can, I was just saying that I don't Like, I can't feel any sort of worry, remorse or anything related to it when I'm eating meat (as I am right now, BTW), I don't feel bad about myself and I just don't really care. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 well done op you trolled like vegans do im a fucking champ lmao Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ansem Posted September 20, 2016 Author Share Posted September 20, 2016 (edited) no you can't lol. The fact of the matter is you're killing an animal that has literally done nothing to you for your own pleasure. "humane killing" and whatnot is just a way to make people feel better about themselves. what is your goal lmao? you think you can convince one of us to stop eating meat? making passive aggressive posts isnt gonna stop anyone from eating meat. and you can show me and other meat eaters horrible images of inhumane treatment of animals and scientific studies done that show how bad farm grown meat is and we will still eat meat because we dont care. its cognitive dissonance, and we are all guilty of it. if you own a samsung/apple device, that was the result of borderline slave labor in china. the clothing on your back is exported, likely stitched by some child in a third world country. and your fucking vegetables are probably picked by a day laborer or something. Edited September 20, 2016 by Mimikyu Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 no you can't lol. The fact of the matter is you're killing an animal that has literally done nothing to you for your own pleasure. "humane killing" and whatnot is just a way to make people feel better about themselves. I can, and me, and most people do, actually. Besides, I'm not killing anyone. Hell, I don't think about it. Take it as it is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junk Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 what is your goal lmao? you think you can convince one of us to stop eating meat? making passive aggressive posts isnt gonna stop anyone from eating meat. and you can show me and other meat eaters horrible images of inhumane treatment of animals and scientific studies done that show how bad farm grown meat is and we will still eat meat because we dont care. its cognitive dissonance, and we are all guilty of it. if you own a samsung/apple device, that was the result of borderline slave labor in china. the clothing on your back is exported, likely stitched by some child in a third world country. and your fucking vegetables are probably picked by a day laborer or something. i'd feel much better if people would just admit that they are screwed up instead of trying to justify it. It gets on my nerves (and i guess allergies irritated me and made me more confrontational than usual) And yes I do realize that capitalism in general is pretty screwed up and it has caused me to at least take an interest in far left politics. I suppose "commie scum" isn't in name only haha. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nobody Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 And yes I do realize that capitalism in general is pretty screwed up and it has caused me to at least take an interest in far left politics. Comrade Stalin surely stopped those evil Ukrainians from eating meat, am i rite? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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