Ensemble Mafia - N5

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

also does anyone NOT have mallow on their scumlist?

i have a hard time believing elemina is rainbows top scumread. i am also REALLY having a hard time formulating a scumteam that doesnt include mallow. i think mallow should be on the backburner today because hes been floating on everyones scumlist consistently

##vote rainbow

[Elemina]

Yolo why did you say I'm try harding when you know how I play? Also talk to me about Yedi.

Spamming the thread is a privilege, not a right. I have lost that privilege. XD

[Irony]

Spinal:

I abused the newbie card as newbie scum, and won because of it. I am well aware.

Irony:

1. That's null, town and scum can claim that. Why would you think scum would claim a role like that at that time?

2. Why am I scum for this? Why would scum do this?

3. Why is this scummy?

Kirsche:

What's your read on Irony, curious.

Spamming the thread is a privilege, not a right. I have lost that privilege. XD

1) It could be beneficial to the Mafia, as it could mislead people on a) How many Mafia members there were, b) Even if there were three members of the Mafia, you could draw suspision away from yourself (which proved highly beneficial in the Green Poet vs Emelina debacle on Day Three) or c) Even if you have your role, for all I know it could be a Mafia Role. (And yes, I know that will make it difficult for me to role claim later on, but I feel like I need to say this)

2) It's reactionary. Yes, it could also be a town thing to do, I admit that, but it kinda seems like Mafia trying to draw suspision away from themselves again.

3) I feel that members of the Town are more likely to have consistent reads and views. Yes, I will admit that Town members can also be inconsistent with their views (after all, information changes rapidly), but I feel that Mafia members would struggle to hold consistent views, as if they tried to claim that someone was in the Mafia, surely then they could be called out?

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

Yolo why did you say I'm try harding when you know how I play? Also talk to me about Yedi.

Spamming the thread is a privilege, not a right. I have lost that privilege. XD

lol do you have to post that blue text in every post?

i said you were try harding cuz you posted too fucking much and it was annoying. i would have been down to lynch you simply cuz it was obnoxious but i didnt bring up cuz i knew people would cry about it being an anti town play. im glad you got post restricted and encourage whoever did that to do it to endgame

yedis null and could easily go either way. i PROBABLY wont have a hard answer on his alignment til more people die. idk what you have to say past that

[Irony]

also does anyone NOT have mallow on their Mafia list?

i have a hard time believing elemina is rainbows top scumread. i am also REALLY having a hard time formulating a scumteam that doesnt include mallow. i think mallow should be on the backburner today because hes been floating on everyones scumlist consistently

##vote rainbow

*Says that they cannot formulate a Mafia team that doesn't include User X*

*Thinks that we should not apply pressure on User X as they've been floating on everyone's scum list consistently*

.... That literally doesn't make any logical sense.

If you cannot form a Mafia team that doesn't include Mallow, then why aren't you voting for him. Maybe you are right, and he's in the Mafia. If you are a member of the Town, surely you'd want to get rid of him, so that you can win more easily?

[Elemina]

Yolo:

At the time you told me to let the thread breathe, Ryker had two less posts than me. After a certain point in time, yes I had more posts than Ryker, and still did. (I think he mis-read) ... Yes I have to post that blue text each time, or I get MK'd. I didn't think you were one to care about post count. I don't like it, and it's all I can say. I want to see Yedi's thoughts today. I also want him to be more active. Thoughts on Irony?

Spamming the thread is a privilege, not a right. I have lost that privilege. XD

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

hard time != cant formulate

i find rainbow individually scummier than mallow. but if i have to guess a team mallow will be on it 9/10x. i go for the scummiest

and no i dont want to pressure them. i just want to lynch them. that said im down to go either though my preference is rainbow

@elemina i care when im busy and have to dig through 7 extra pages on a weekend when i have little time because you want to play this like its epicmafia. ryker was different in that i could sense him walking towards conclusions and leading players (unbeknownst to them) towards a gameplan while you looked more like you were rolling around in the dirt playing 20 questions with anyone whod bite. im letting this go tho cuz i dont want to lynch you. as for irony i wouldnt have her anywhere in the discussion of plays for today. my pools good

[🔥YOLOSWAG🔥]

regarding mallow

i dont think ANYONE has called him town. i feel like everyone has had him as nullscum and that alone makes him suspect. as opposed to rainbow who at least has a few whiteknighters. so mallow strikes me as that middle of the road scum that the team keeps on the backburner in a distance-y/bus-y kind of way

what im trying to say is that i think if mallow flips scum i think itll be MUCH easier to track down and figure out his partners based on how people treated him due to so much commentary on him. rainbows would be partners would be trickier cuz his interactions havent been as dynamic. most people seem to treat him as a "catch up guy" slot thats easy to ignore

[Irony]

hard time != cant formulate

i find rainbow individually scummier than mallow. but if i have to guess a team mallow will be on it 9/10x. i go for the scummiest

and no i dont want to pressure them. i just want to lynch them. that said im down to go either though my preference is rainbow

@elemina i care when im busy and have to dig through 7 extra pages on a weekend when i have little time because you want to play this like its epicmafia. ryker was different in that i could sense him walking towards conclusions and leading players (unbeknownst to them) towards a gameplan while you looked more like you were rolling around in the dirt playing 20 questions with anyone whod bite. im letting this go tho cuz i dont want to lynch you. as for irony i wouldnt have her anywhere in the discussion of plays for today. my pools good

Who's on your pool, if not myself? Apart from Mallow, obviously?

But apart from that, I'd agree with you- Mallow is on my Null list, and I can't think of anyone who has him on their Town lists of the top of my head. I will disagree with you r.e. Rainbow though. I think it's more likely that they're town, in my opinion.

[Irony]

And also- I feel like I need to acknowledge something.

Ever since yesterday started, I've had a lot more people call on reads on me than they did in Day 1 (it feels like it anyways.) I think the reason for that is due to the change in my play style.

I do know what I was uber passive on day 1, what with the no lynch vote and trying to avoid reads, whereas on Day 2 I am being a lot more aggressive.

This is my playstyle. Like Spinal (or Ken Masters) I don't believe in making rash votes and nominations, but rather observing and deducing, before going out all guns blazing. If that has suprised you, I apologise, but I have mentioned it in previous comments on Day 1, so it shouldn't really be a surprise.

[Kriemhild]

I am really bothered by how almost nobody is talking about Green Poet's flip. She got hammered (even though there's no hammer in D1, I know) and everyone just continues with the game as if it was just a minor "Oh, she flipped town, awww, let's just forget about it and move on". I'm especially looking at those who actually voted for her and apparently thought she was scum. How does your perspective change now that you discover that she wasn't?

It's especially annoying me because Green Poet herself explicitly outlined the consequences of each outcome for lynching Elemina, and also in executing her plan to test her role. And yet, there are people voted for her anyway. If you felt that your vote was a superior option than her proposals, please enlighten us as to what you've learned from her flip. Even if you sadly couldn't derive much out of it, I still want to hear your thoughts on it.

Kirsche did explain his vote and while it looks very suspicious for him to backpedal about feeling better about Refa, I actually can't imagine scum pulling something like that. I don't agree with his case on Refa though, and I like Refa's reads.

[spoiler=Elemina]Elemina acknowledging her impulsive nature makes me feel a bit better but now that she's aware of it, I would like to see her calmly try to re-analyze her previous reads and express how she feels about them. And I also want to hear her thoughts on Green Poet's flip.

btw Elemina, no, people do not expect you to post one-liners. If there is something, or even multiple things, that bother you about a player, then you should simply construct your case based on those issues and confront them about it. What people mean about throwing everything but the kitchen is how you seem to crack down on every single aspect that could give you the slightest reason to attack them. I can't claim to know your thought process when you construct a case on someone, but if it's anything like what I described (decide on a target, possibly from a good legit reason, and then find as many arguments against them as you can), then you should really calm down and try to free yourself from this aggressive mentality that hurts your reasoning capability. If that's not the case, then try to consider whether each of your individual points appear to be strong enough in isolation (from all the other arguments that do not directly relate to it). Do you really find it scummy that Refa didn't actively try to determine Irony's alignment from literally just one post? If not, then why the hell are you trying to make a mountain out of gathering a bunch of molehills?

As for the behavioral vs logical point you made, I disagree; behavior can be very indicative. If everybody acted with pure logic and nothing else, we'd have a game of chance because the Mafia know that they should pretend to be uninformed and would be able to blend in perfectly because they're not lacking any data that exclusively helps Townies only. The reason why this is not a game of chance, is because players behave differently, even when they try their best to be purely logical. These behavioral components, if analyzed and handled in an effective manner, can give Town the advantage to singling out the Mafia. All Townies should contribute to making such discussions productive, so it is foolish to dismiss players who are looking at the behavioral components.

[spoiler=SB's case on me]- I consider my options to quite some extent before I convey them in the thread. I don't think I ever presented any significant opinions that were accompanied by the details of my reasoning for them (and in fact, I'm worried that the level of details might even make my posts seem padded or fluffy, which I think some people pointed out).

- I didn't switch to Green Poet because my thoughts on her didn't change. I don't even remember if Green Poet even made any significant posts between these two instances where I mentioned her. Is it scummy to not change your opinion about a player?

- Yes, I said "this wagon is bad" and I gave my general opinions of each player who participated in it, and I called out players I wanted to hear more from. Why, do you think wagon analysis is inherently bad if there are no strong scumreads that emerge from it?

- "but then only really attributes it to one person who should be voting there anyway as their counterwagon" ...what? Do you mean Elemina? I didn't overlook the fact that she should be voting for Green Poet; in fact, I explicitly said that her vote on Green Poet made the most sense to me and my scumread on her began with a "Despite this...". Is it bad that I didn't think anyone else on the wagon was scummier than Elemina? The "only really" bit makes it sound like my post there was all I was intending to derive from the wagon; which is not true since I explicitly called out players to provide their input so that we could have productive discussions on the wagon.

Not related to your case on me, SB, but I think your explanation for keeping your vote on Green Poet makes sense. But now that she flipped Town, do you have any associative reads from it?

[Refa]

Can you explain why you don't feel like scum!Kirsche would do that? It'll help me to improve my read on him to hear it from a less biased source.

[Refa]

Elemina, I'm reading Irony as town. She's just null on the wagon analysis because lol, can't get much from a no vote. I thought her earlier posts on D1 were suspicious but I like how she progressed on her reads themselves, even if she wasn't voting. I haven't read her later posts today, but I like that she's taking more of a stance and voting. Honestly, my overall position is like Ryker's; she's doing a very good job portraying herself as a novice who hasn't received any guidance whatsoever (so it makes less sense for her to be newb scum), and this is something that would only work once.

[Ryker]

I am really bothered by how almost nobody is talking about Green Poet's flip. She got hammered (even though there's no hammer in D1, I know) and everyone just continues with the game as if it was just a minor "Oh, she flipped town, awww, let's just forget about it and move on". I'm especially looking at those who actually voted for her and apparently thought she was scum. How does your perspective change now that you discover that she wasn't?

Uhm? I'm pretty sure multiple people (including me) have posted things in light of GP's flip.

I stand by GP's flip being definitely the right thing.

[Refa]

bitching out myself because busy irl

see you in postgame

[Kriemhild]

Can you explain why you don't feel like scum!Kirsche would do that? It'll help me to improve my read on him to hear it from a less biased source.

With how close the Elemina vs Green Poet was at that point, I feel like Kirsche would be conscious of how significant his decision was. When scum!Kirsche said he'd feel better about Refa if Green Poet flips Town, he would have already known that she would flip Town and would likely be fully intending to go through with what he said. Otherwise, if he backpedaled later, then that post would have only made him look bad and provided no benefit to him. Basically, I can't see scum!Kirsche making such a post while already knowing Green Poet's alignment and then later deciding never to go through with what he said.

What would make more sense imo, is if Kirsche was Town and didn't think too strongly about the implications of Green Poet flipping Town when he made that post due to the uncertainty of such an outcome. Once she actually flipped, he was able to look back at parts of D1 with the knowledge of Green Poet's Town alignment (something which scum could've done the entire time before Green Poet's flip) and decided that Refa still looked bad, despite his earlier declaration.

Then again, it could still be a WIFOM or a terrible OMGUS, but I don't feel like Kirsche is doing either of those.

Uhm? I'm pretty sure multiple people (including me) have posted things in light of GP's flip.

I still want to know your thoughts on the wagon in general though, as well as explain what you thought about Green Poet (the issues that I pointed out in my earlier post).

I stand by GP's flip being definitely the right thing.

Right thing...? What do you mean? Of course the flip would be correct, since the mods did the flipping, but I doubt that's what you meant. Explain?

[charlie_]

@Ken: Having similar reads doesn't really mean much in terms of alignment in a vacuum. I'd understand if Proto was actively posting and that you could follow along with the conclusions he was making that way,

I also disagree that Proto has massive amounts of content. He has massive posts, sure, but usually at least half of it either game theory which isn't very helpful or inconclusive reads. His stances have been consistent, sure, but I actually feel like he's taking it too far and really isn't looking elsewhere. He always had GP as his second string scumread and made a big deal about dropping his Ryker case - to the point that it felt super deliberate to me. Like he was trying to get everyone notice 'look how townie this guy is re-evaluating his reads' when in reality he hasn't done a whole lot. This isn't about having different opinions to him at all (I wanted to lynch GP, and Elemina for a while too) and I hae no idea where you're getting this from.

##Unvote
##Vote: Proto

In the end I just talked myself into this. I kind of get what Omega's saying in terms of why his lynch priority is what it is, but I'd like to know why he thinks Proto's vote is wacky.

Curious, why is my wagon analysis iffy?

I thought I answered this before, but I dislike it because I don't think it's very useful with a town flip. It's way too variable based on what Elemina's alignment is and its really easy to get paranoid about things that really don't matter. I think looking into votes individually is fine but when its a kind of bad lynch (we lynched a fucking Gov for gods sake) I don't think you can really point fingers too much.

Is Refa subbing out?

I know there's another page but I'm splitting this and going to get lunch. Reading wallposts is a daunting task.

[yedi]

I'll get to this later today

[Zkirsche]

Sigh my main scumread subbing out certainly doesn't help motivate me to reread.

[Zkirsche]

@Yolo I am a bit cautious when it comes to Irony because they seem too quick to agree to anything. Aside from that thought she seems like a typical new town player in many respects so I'm not interested in lynching right now.

Proto/SB do you guys have a lynch priority? Proto especially, you seem to be reading D2 now but still lack a vote despite having suspicions on people. Your Ryker analysis is good and am looking forward to hearing from Ryker again though. I can see where SB is coming from too though with the lack of reads zzzzz.

A problem I'm having this game is that I find a lot of this stuff agreeable when being agreeable isn't really a towntell.

[Ken Masters]

Man, sad Town day 2

Having read the cases on Proto, I can totally understand why people called him out. But I just can't agree when all the real evidence behind the push is "He talks too much aboy theory".

I do that a lot too. I understand, context is an important thing here and my amount of content far outmatches his, but that isn't inherently scummy or harmful. I just can't go about this on gutfeelings and possible intentions.

A problem I'm having this game is that I find a lot of this stuff agreeable when being agreeable isn't really a towntell.

I'll do it the other way around. Agreeable content means less likely to be scum.

I think Blitz is the only quasi confirmed Townie, though it could always be a deceptive role and all that.

I think the worst part is that we were granted a death-less day, and we have made no progress whatsoever.

[Ryker]

We're very near approaching the point where lack of content is a lynchable offense. We need slots to be putting things out there.

@Rainbow

GP was scummy as balls. You had GP as your runner-up if I recall correctly. That role is FAR from a claim that should've saved the slot and I don't get where you are coming from implying that it is. That could easily have belonged to either alignment and GP's play deserved a lynch, so I don't know why you think it was a travesty for that lynch to have happened.

As for it being "right," I don't mean that the flip was tampered with. I mean it was the right decision for progressing the game. He flipped town, but there was a large contingent of the game that was not going to stop aiming at GP until GP was dead (like me). This lets us move forward.

Now, can you tell me this:

1.) What's your read on Ken and why?

2.) What do you make of SB's vote on you? Why did he make it and what's your read on him?"

3.) If Elemina were confirmed town, how would that effect your reads list?

[Ryker]

SB, can you give me a bullet point list for why you're voting Rainbow?

[charlie_]

Ended up playing video games on Skype all evening instead. Whoops.

Voting Proto because:

-I feel like he's hiding his low number of reads behind massive walls of :effort:

-I think the way that he switched away from being suspicious of you looked fake

-His evaluation feels really surface level to me and I feel like he's not properly reevaluating as the game progresses, he just kinda focuses on 2-3 slots at most at a time and then writes long walls about how people are null without trying to figure them out.

My lynch priority is tough. I'd say Proto > Omega for sure, and then I'm down to grasping at straws with slots like Ken. I kind of want to reread Refa for myself after realising how limited the options are, but I don't really feel enthusiastic about the cases on him right now.

[yedi]

honestly not sure if I can keep up with the activity requirements in this game and it might be better if I'm replaced.

I haven't really read most of the Day 2 posts, but some brief thoughts:

I think rainbow and yolo are great lynches. They're both scummy independently, Rainbow for reasons i mentioned yesterday. and wrt Yolo, i've been iffy on that slot all last Day but I at least agreed with his Rainbow push. Usually I base my read on yolo based on how well I can follow his reads and yesterday I couldn't really understand why he went for what he did. Specifically with him liking Ryker over Spinal and his GP fos early on. Usually I try to wait for more content from the slot before committing to a read but at this rate idk how likely it is that i'll get it

more importantly though I think if Rainbow flips scum it's like YOLO is town and vice versa. Given yolo's relatively consistent push of Rainbow yesterday.

I like Kirsche.

Despite my dislike for Rainbow, I don't mind Blitz as much anymore.