Ensemble Mafia - N5

[Elemina]

I can do that.

[Elemina]

Town Read Explanations:

I really liked Rainbow's come back. There are things I don't agree with, but he seems like he genuinely believes in what he is saying and is trying to progress the town. Also shows frustration when Yolo votes without explanation. I don't agree with his reasoning on why Ryker may be scum (nor Kirsche) but I support him in this endeavor.

I will say here and now that I agreed with Green Poet's town read of Irony, I came to the same conclusion but did not mention it to see how others reacted. Scum would be more cautious and would not want to modkill themselves, especially as newbie scum. Newbie town would do things without thought, and Irony has become townier after providing content and being active. I didn't like him keeping his vote on me but I liked his explanation about the informed stuff, it makes sense since I do have an informed role but didn't think I'd need to out it immediately.

I like Spinal STILL. I've already explained why I liked him. I don't agree with him on Mallow though. Need him to look at Refa for me.

I agree with Yedi and Green Poet on their analysis of Irony being town. I came to the same conclusion of Irony being town for editting his post, but did not mention anything to see how others would interact with him. He's become even townier after becoming free-er and giving opinions. He's been active and helpful, and cooperative.

Yolo because I liked his point on Refa, simply. Need more from him, but have him at null leaning townie.

[Elemina]

(But I'll look at Ryker's Rainbow read later and give my analysis on that after others post)

[Ryker]

Okay. I can see what you're getting at, but I think the idea that you're chasing rabbits is incredibly realistic. I could EASILY see it as someone being lazy rather than scum actively trying to avoid the game (or that they would be specifically more lazy as scum). I think what you want more than a lynch is Refa's reads on important slots.

Speaking of which, Refa, can I have your current read on Kirche, GP, and Hober. Also tell me what my read on SB should be and what I should know about that slot.

[Elemina]

Oops, I confused my irony reasoning with being Green poet reasoning. To clarify, Green Poet is townie because of his reaction to me, and his town read on Irony. I came to the same conclusion as him. It also makes sense that Refa is scum trying to paint GP as scum for something that he worded wrong. Yet his conclusion makes sense along with my role and what I did early game. Green Poet town.

[Elemina]

You're right, that would be a good thing for him to do. I was expecting reads from him which came in the form of responses instead and a Mallow vote. Still vibes as scummy to me especially with his push on GP and as you said, no follow up.

[Ken Masters]

SHORTLY, as I don't want to get into a mafia theory with you again, explain to me how you deal with inactives if you aren't willing to lynch them for being a PR. What do you do if the scum team is YOLO, Yedi, and Hober for example?

I want to know your thoughts on what we should do there.

You don't.

Inactives get modkilled.

Low activity people and lurkers should be threatened and called out, yes. I agree with that.

What I disgreed with was that in THIS context, it makes no sense to Lynch an inactive.

If Yolo, Yedi and Hober are all scum, they are doing a terrible job at it because Hober has almost as many votes as you do on your race to the noose, and YOLO + Yedi get self exposed as the low activity ones instead of blending in, so I think we're not in that universe.

Honestly, it sounds like an agreement to escape the noose while still getting an easy outing on day 2. A very weak one at that, that I'm pretty sure no-one would accept. Except maybe Hober, but that has other bases behind it than just low activity

[Elemina]

Spinal I want you to look over my Refa read as well. Do you think it's possible Refa can be scum with Ryker?

[Refa]

I'm only responding to your summary, but if you want me to respond to specific quotes, link them.

Summary:

1. Asks about scumlist, never cares to follow up.

2. Mudslings GP and doesn't consider other possibilities.

3. Doesn't try to determine Irony's alignment, just comes to the conclusion that she isn't townie to negate any town cred he gets.

4. Admits to having a lack of motivation, but doesn't explain what that is.

5. Is reactive over being proactive.

6. Big post isn't anayslis, simply responses.

7. No progression on Mallow, weak push on him who happens to be low hanging fruit.

8. Admits to voting mallow for something that should be neutral but justifies it with 'it rubs me the wrong way'.

1. Why would I need to follow up? Your reasoning was fine for the time.

2. Didn't mudsling GP, you're misrepresenting my case on her. I didn't have an issue with GP's wording, I had an issue with her saying that you being sure was scummy because I couldn't see how that made any sense. After she explained it more thoroughly, I thought it was legit and dropped that.

3. This point genuinely frustrates me. When I made that post, Irony had one post to her name. It's perfectly fair of me to not consider her town at the time.

4. This isn't an actual reason.

5. This isn't scummy AND it's a lie. My cases on GP and you are examples of me being proactive.

6. Actually, my reads are in those posts. If you saw them, you'd notice that I have a town read on Irony, a scumread on Hober AND YOU (which you haven't responded too), and continued issues with GP.

7. Mallow hasn't made a significant post since I first made my case, of course my read hasn't progressed

8. You're cherrypicking a minor aspect of my vote. There are more aspects to it than that.

Speaking of which, Refa, can I have your current read on Kirche, GP, and Hober. Also tell me what my read on SB should be and what I should know about that slot.

Kirsche's tone reads as town to me, but otherwise he's null until he puts out more content.

GP is a light scum read of mine because of SB's case.

I'm still scumreading Hobber because he hasn't done anything since my last post. Not sure if he's a stronger read than Elemina at this point, but I want some answers from him so that's where my vote's going to be until then.

You're right, that would be a good thing for him to do. I was expecting reads from him which came in the form of responses instead and a Mallow vote. Still vibes as scummy to me especially with his push on GP and as you said, no follow up.

You said my GP case was shit and misrepresenting her and now you're saying I should have followed up on it.

[Refa]

Hit post too soon without finishing that thought. Regardless, GP's responses answered my issues with her outside of SB's case (and yes, I did ask her to respond to that), so there wasn't anything else I could follow up there.

[Elemina]

No, you shouldn't have followed up with a shit case but if you really believed in it, you would have. This is even stronger evidence that you had no real stance on GP but were only mudslinging.

[Elemina]

Also lol at you being productive

[Refa]

no

[Refa]

Also lol at you being productive

kindly go jump off a cliff

[Elemina]

Anyway, I'll be getting off for now.

MORE VOTES FOR REFA PLEASE.

Yolo, get at me with this since you seem to have scum meta with him

[Elemina]

Mallow, Vote with me.

[Ryker]

Okay. I wanted to reread the thread and get to GP and SB tonight, but my two favorite players are still in the bracket at a national I'm watching. I'll have to rain check it for tomorrow, but I don't have work, so I should knock it out early.

[Elemina]

Refa:

1. You should have said as much.

2. Yes you did. Also you never concluded that, you just dropped off the face of the earth.

3. I don't see frustration here, sounds like you trying to fake it. You didn't though try to determine Irony's slot though. Also Blitz did the same thing.

4. Why do you have a lack of motivation?

5. Being reactive shows that you have no drive to progress the phase no game solve.

6. Those aren't really reads, or analysis, just responses.

7. That's all null as you said.

8. You are reaching to arrive to the conclusion he is scum.

I'm done responding to you.

[Elemina]

More votes for Refa. Check out the case and our interactions. I say if Ryker is lynched today, Vig Refa. (I prefer Ryker over Mallow since votes are going his way)

I'm off for now. Ciao.

[Refa]

Refa:

1. You should have said as much.

2. Yes you did. Also you never concluded that, you just dropped off the face of the earth.

3. I don't see frustration here, sounds like you trying to fake it. You didn't though try to determine Irony's slot though. Also Blitz did the same thing.

4. Why do you have a lack of motivation?

5. Being reactive shows that you have no drive to progress the phase no game solve.

6. Those aren't really reads, or analysis, just responses.

7. That's all null as you said.

8. You are reaching to arrive to the conclusion he is scum.

I'm done responding to you.

1. Me not replying implies such.

2. Following up on it later doesn't mean that I didn't conclude it. Not posting for a day isn't indicative of my alignment, only my interest/time I can put into the game.

3. Yeah, clearly I should have said "fuck you" to get across my frustration better. I read Irony's posts and couldn't determine the alignment of her slot. As far as I'm concerned, doing the same thing as Blitz's slot is good because it's a town slot.

4. Because I haven't played mafia in forever and only joined this game to fill it out.

5. Not true. Yes, it benefits mafia to be reactive but as long as town is generating content and you have a good idea of their views, it's fine.

6. I don't know what to say to you at this point.

7. Have you actually read all of my posts? I've talked about several other things about Mallow that bothered me.

8. Not really.

Okay.

[charlie_]

@Green Poet: Why would Town!Spinal react differently to Scum!Spinal here? I understand the point about him getting frustrated but I don't see why his alignment comes in so this comes across as kind of forced.

Ryker doesn't bother me anymore now that he explained himself on Proto and there's some depth to his suspicions. I wish we didn't need like 50 posts of nothing to get here but it works out.

Refa's frustration is null-town - he could be scum thinking he was caught for wrong reasons, but I don't think he would react this strongly. It's late and I don't have the effort to deconstruct Elemina's case properly but it reads like they're just throwing everything but the kitchen sink at him. At least that's the general feeling I'm getting from it. Don't really like the slot because of this because it feels like they're trying to Refa's actions to fit their narrative without looking the other way around.

@Refa: what do you actually think of Elemina (readswise)?

[Ken Masters]

1. Me not replying implies such.

2. Following up on it later doesn't mean that I didn't conclude it. Not posting for a day isn't indicative of my alignment, only my interest/time I can put into the game.

3. Yeah, clearly I should have said "fuck you" to get across my frustration better. I read Irony's posts and couldn't determine the alignment of her slot. As far as I'm concerned, doing the same thing as Blitz's slot is good because it's a town slot.

4. Because I haven't played mafia in forever and only joined this game to fill it out.

5. Not true. Yes, it benefits mafia to be reactive but as long as town is generating content and you have a good idea of their views, it's fine.

6. I don't know what to say to you at this point.

7. Have you actually read all of my posts? I've talked about several other things about Mallow that bothered me.

8. Not really.

Okay.

Refa is certainly not scum.

She has adressed every single point raised, and you Elemina, have been ignoring and constantly misrepresenting her posts. The Irony part is especially frustrating because she has explained many times to you, that that vote on her was made on a different context to the current one. I don't get why is that so hard to grasp.

She's made posts clearly stating her stance on the current issues and stood by them, something I appreciate a lot in a game full of flip-floppers.

So no, I will not vote on Refa, and I don't see her being Mafia at all.

[Blitz]

I am bored, so, I will go for some quick defense and attack and get some of my other to dos done

4.) Blitz I originally had on the top of my scumread because his post #21 tries to throw the brakes on the Rainbow wagon at the start of the game, but later in post #46 says he agrees with the idea of pushing gutreads

for the sake of preventing the thread stagnating, which is exactly what the Rainbow wagon would do. If you are OKAY with minimal content pushes in RVS, then why stop that one? I was mostly shoving my vote somewhere so that I could further trigger a response from Spinal. His recent comments about Hober Mallow, I agree with. However, despite the post being valid criticism of the slot, it's one that could be easily picked up from a scum perspective if Hober Mallow is town.

BLITZ - NULL LEANING SCUM

Wrong, I threw the brakes on Proto because I have seen people vote for the inactive Proto, who we knew wasn't gonna be back for 24 hours and a lot of guys would get away with doing nothing for the first 24 hours, with just the excuse of "I was waiting on Proto", which Yolo did after all...

Blitz:

I'll repeat some reasons, as Blitz isn't really helping himself since.

1. His push on Irony seems like a scum push, he's not considering his alignment, just trying to take advantage of his newbieness.

2. He's also being reactive, and is using chores as an excuse.

3. He has been less active and isn't trying to progress the phase.

4. His comment about Ryker being a troll seems like him trying to ignore Ryker and not determine his alignment.

5. Mallow push is weak. I don't see how passive = scum, at all. Nothing to catch scum is null, he's been providing content, just not to Spinal's liking. (Which he disagrees) I don't find anything suspicious from him, actually. I again still believe scum wouldn't call out inactives when they themselvs are inactive.

1. Wrong, but that is your opinion

2. I would like specific example as to where I was reacting, if you want to make a case on that on me, over generalizing the offense and do not act like you know what my life is like, when you are just some kid with too much free time on his hands.

3. see above and I want specific examples of where I am not trying to progress the game

4. you need to respect others, if you want to be respected and someone who isn't playing the game, does not have the right to be treated like he is playing the game.\

5. and for this one, I am going to elaborate a little.

Here, you are saying passive != scum, yet over here, we have (against "Mallow push is weak. I don't see how passive = scum, at all.")

Spinal is scum.

He doesn't use his vote to progress the phase, and uses a weak reason to justify his Rainbow stance.

you claiming Spinal is scum because he was being passive (because that is another word to express someone who isn't helping progress the phase)

and for this part of the conversation,

"Nothing to catch scum is null, he's been providing content, just not to Spinal's liking. (Which he disagrees) I don't find anything suspicious from him, actually."

Why don't you show me what content he has provided, because I don't see any. The only thing he actually did was, discredit what Spinal said, in regard to Ryker, BUT WAIT, WE HAVE THIS!!

Seems more of an excuse for him to discredit Rainbow instead of just leaving it at "Yeah you're busy, see you tomorrow."

where you went on ahead and said the EXACT OPPOSITE THING FOR SPINAL

It seems to me like you are being the hypocrite here, care to explain for having double standards for the 2 different player?

You have made it to my scumlist above Green Poet and I am very willing to lynch you

[Refa]

How Elemina handled their Blitz case was scummy, and they never responded to my issues with it. A lot of their case is misrepresenting my actions (e.g. saying I'm mudslinging, that my reads have no progression, not trying to determine Irony's alignment) and I'm going to need a few hours away from the game so I can cool down and see if it's just me being frustrated or that their case has scum intent in it. What bothers me more than their actual case is how they ignored my case on them; if your biggest scumread is casing you, that should be something you can get a read off of.

[Zkirsche]

Jesus there have been two pages since I started writing this post.