If you could change one major thing about the plot in every Fire Emblem installment, what would it be?

[Rezzy]

Awakening: Fuck Chrom and make it more about Robin and Lucina from the beginning.

Playing a female avatar, you pretty much default to fucking Chrom, then you do get the family dynamic between Chrom, Robin, and Lucina. If you play a male avatar and were to fuck Chrom, it would create a time paradox with Lucina never being born.

[Anacybele]

FE7: I guess make Lyn more plot-important instead of just there after her story.

FE8: Alternate between Ephraim and Eirika repeatedly until the split. There's too much Eirika in the beginning, imo. And both are supposed to be the lords.

PoR: Nothing I can think of, I think everything is pretty much perfect here!

RD: Expand more on the blood pact. I'd like to know exactly how it works and stuff. Like, what makes it able to bind the signer to a curse and kill that signer's people? Who first developed/invented them? And so on.

Awakening: Oh boy, where do I begin... I guess I'll just say expand the game to 40 or 50 chapters so it doesn't feel so freaking rushed.

Fates: I dunno yet, I haven't played enough of it to really say. Still need to finish Revelation.

I haven't played any of the other FE games.

[Rezzy]

Fates: I dunno yet, I haven't played enough of it to really say. Still need to finish Revelation.

I would love to have the main games have around 40 chapters plus side chapters. For example, I think Revelation could have easily been 40 chapters. Without going into too spoiler territory, I thought everything that happened before going to Valla felt a little rushed and could have easily been expanded with another 8-10 chapters. (I wish they had done a chapter with the song cutscene for Azura on Garon in Rev, I especially loved Conquests' version.) Once you get to Valla, it was a bit of a let-down pacing wise, but that's beside the point.

Speaking of Sacred Stones: I think they should have let you play both Eirika and Ephraim's routes in the same playthrough, and have you divvy up your army, like in part 4 of RD. I didn't like the constant army splitting and perspective switches of RD, but I think since it's a minority of the game in SS, and it's only divided in two, it could have been handled well there.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Rezzy

[NekoKnight]

Path of Radiance: make Ashnard more involved with the plot

Ashnard is not recognized by Ike until the final chapter. Instead, we've got the Black Knight supplying people with literal plot armor in the background. Honestly, I don't even understand why the Black Knight really exists when walking around being a force of nature should've been Ashnard's job.

Radiant Dawn: remove the Blood Pact

This'll probably be my least controversial suggestion. I rather like Radiant Dawn's story and all of the character interactions it offers, but the charm of the story - fighting playable characters with different armies - wears off when one party is forced into it, as opposed to doing what they believe is right. Had that been the case, then the chaotic nature of the plot been far more palpable, and Ashera's appearance would've been more of a "damn, did we fuck up" as opposed to "way to go, irredeemably evil, corrupt politicians".

Fates: remove Valla

Removing Valla would almost automatically solve some of Fates many major issues: Anankos wouldn't exist, Garon would actually have to be his own character and the story could focus on the main conflict as opposed to completely removing the supposed theme of the story out of the equation.

This would also help individual characters, such as Xander coming across as less of an idiot for not noticing his father is a literal monster as opposed to a figurative one, and Azura wouldn't need to be a plot device and exposition bot with legs.

Path of Radiance

I feel the Black Knight's role in the story was actually well written. He's Ike's main adversary and the catalyst for his growth as a character. Isn't Ike's personal quest for revenge and his own growth into becoming a leader more poignant than "I must fight Ashnard because he's a bad guy I've never met"? Ashnard is important to the plot as the instigator of the conflict but he's more connected to Elincia than Ike. Think about how in the Princess Bride, Inigo Montoya's personal enemy is not the main villain, but one of his subordinates? Granted, Montoya isn't the main character, but it's more interesting than everyone being focused on the same villain.

Radiant Dawn

Indeed, the Blood Pact is the greatest flaw, but thankfully is easily fixable. Two solutions to this would be to have Begnion promise Daein it's independence on the promise that they support them in the war (with the implicit threat that they will return the country to the dirt if they don't comply), or have Sothe get captured by Begnion, to be used as a hostage to force Micaiah's obedience. I think this would add great moral depth (not that their wasn't already) to Micaiah's character because she'd have to choose between doing what's right and protecting the people she cares about.

Fates

Removing Valla is the simplest way of putting it but you'd basically need to tear the plot down to the roots to remove the bad. The plot should have been what was advertised in the original premise. A poor country goes to war with it's neighbor for resources and the protagonist is caught in the middle, forced between choosing his adopted family and a morally ambiguous cause and choosing his blood family and a righteous cause. Fates, the greatest Fire Emblem story never told.

- FE9: The Greil Mercenaries should've been transferred to Titania, not Ike. The latter started not too long ago, and shows that he's in no shape to be leader after his father died. Titania's been around for a while, which is why I felt she'd be a better choice as leader. Once Ike had more experience, she could hand over leadership of the group to him.

This is actually addressed in the story. The Greil Mercenaries, Titania included, are aware that Titania is the most natural choice (which causes two members to defect) but Titania gives the position to Ike out of respect for his father. It contributes to their characterization, so I can't call it a misstep in the plot,

Indeed. It's especially jarring in Path of Radiance, where the Laguz seem to believe that might is right, just like Ashnard, yet he's evil. I mean, I know there are more differences than that, but to my knowledge that isn't really brought up.

I've seen this brought up and I don't think it's a fair comparison. The principle of Laguz leadership is like a warrior society, the strongest individuals are the most fit to lead. This fits them because this is how animal hierarchies generally function. Ashnard's philosophy is more akin to Social Darwinism, the strong should tyrannize the weak,

[onvars]

I don't think anyone's mentioned this, but I feel Radiant Dawn's story would be a lot better if Sephiran, who's supposed to be the main villain, actually showed up sometime before the second-to-last chapter. I guess the reveal that Sephiran had been your enemy the whole time was supposed to be a big betrayal thing, but it's hard to feel betrayed by someone I barely remembered from the last game. If he had spent the rest of the plot pretending to help you only to reveal he was behind all your problems, not only would he be more interesting, but the plot would feel much more cohesive, rather than three stories that have little to do with each other.

Admittedly, I've only played RD once a few months ago, so my knowledge of the plot might be a bit flimsy.

Edited October 31, 2016 by onvars

[Cornguy]

I'm just gonna focus on Awakening, at least for now since its the plot I whine about the most. Not saying its the worst, because its certainly not, but I have the most "internal notes" about it.

We'll just get the biggest one out of the way first. Timeskip>Timetravel. The ruined future sounded so much more interesting than what we actually played through. The main thing that gets me about it, is that with the amount of paralouges we had for recruiting child characters, plus the final 3(?) chapters, there were more than enough resources to make this happen.

Either give the barren womb/Robinsexual characters children, or write them as second gen, fixed characters. Not necessarily all of them, but enough of them to fill out the second gen a little bit.

Remove Valm from the first gen's story. Instead you'll fight the Grimleal alongside the Valmese in the second gen, until your party either discovers their ideals, or little by little can't handle their methods. The story could then go one of two ways.

Valm is wiped out by the Grimleal, their final battle weakens them enough to give your army a fighting chance against the Grimleal.

Your party overthrows the Conqueror in honorable combat(basically Walhart offers you an ultimatum, since he's got the "might makes right" personality, he's already written to work for this plot device) and the Valmese are either left to their own devices, or take orders from their new Emperor(you).

Your Avatar always becomes Grima. You'll get to make a second Avatar for the next gen, your sibling(other Morgan) is being groomed to be the next vessel for Grima, since Robin was severely damaged by the Exalted Falchion. Your husband/wife in the first gen will become a sympathetic and tragic villain. Partially because a LOT of Awakening's villains were dicks, just because. I'd appreciate if there were more villains we could give a shit about, like Mustafa.

Keep Risen, but put them alongside the Grimleal and other humans here and there. Killing emotionless monsters loses meaning, but the Risen are still important, and should still appear in the story.

I guess that's my big dumb rant for now.

EDIT: Shucks, you said "one" thing. I guess we'll go with the first one.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Cornguy

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Binding Blade:

I'm gonna have to agree with spreading Jahn's info dump throughout the story and making it more gradual. I can't really think of anything else to change.

Blazing Sword:

Make Lyn more plot-relevant.

Sacred Stones:

Fix certain characters to certain routes. For example, Joshua should be fixed to Eirika's route because of his character arc.

Path of Radiance:

Ashnard is basically nonexistent, and that's bad. Give him much more plot involvement.

Radiant Dawn:

Oh my goodness where do I begin! There's just so much in this plot that make it such a terrible mess...I suppose my first choice would be to simply give the Dawn Brigade way more involvement, they're seriously underdeveloped.

Shadow Dragon:

Support Conversations. Please. Normally I'd say remove the requirements for the gaiden chapters, but that's not a story thing, whereas Support Conversations potentially are.

New Mystery of the Emblem:

Either drastically reduce Kris' plot involvement, or remove 'em altogether!

Awakening:

The game felt too rushed in too many spots...just focus on one thing at a time, extend the length of the game.

Fates:

This might possibly have overtaken RD as my personal choice for "worst FE plot" so I'm not quite sure where to begin...

[Sartek]

FE5: Make Freege (Through Blume or Hilda) the big bad and delete Veld. (and specially delete the "we manipulated Trabant into attacking Cuan" BS)

FE6: Make Jahn pop here and there through the game to spread his story.

FE7: Make Lyn a bit more relevant to the plot.

FE9: Make Ashnard a real threat instead of the Black Knight.

FE10: More Micaiah to flesh her out, and prevent Ike from stealing the spotlight.

FE12: Write Kris and the assassins out.

FE13: Put it into it's own continuity instead of in Akaneia's, would raise less questions.

FE14: Bye bye Corrin.

[Locke087]

FE 4: A better explanation of who died and how (some people didn't attend the barbecue) & give more development to some of the characters.

FE 6: Along with what everyone else already said, i'm gonna say something very personal, ditch Merlinus as a advisor replace him with Marcus.

FE 7: Make the hidden plot, the actual plot (your plot should not be hiding in support conversion) show more of the actual plot less telling it.

FE 8: Nerf Ephraim story wise, no need to be so soloing castles my boy.

FE 9: Make the other (I.e. not the black knight) four rider more interesting villains (after all we spend most of the game of one of them) and don't completely waste one of them (I can't spell their names at the moment you should know who I'm talking about) .

FE 10: Cut Ike completely from the plot or at least dramatically increase the amount of time with the Dawn Brigade.

FE 11: make it less boring?

FE 12: stab Chris in the heart.

FE 13: Have the entire game take place during the first ark.

FE 14: remove a valla from the equation, and make it less black-and-white.

Edited October 31, 2016 by Locke087

[Alazen]

I'm sure that RD would go better if you cut out the Warring Player Characters gimmick of Part Three.

Talk about the Blood Pact, but it really is an excuse for the Greil Mercenaries and Dawn Brigade to fight each-other without either of them being "the villain." Along with having an excuse to have Nasaela backstab again. Part Four dwells little on the fighting beyond Ike waving off Sothe.

You can have Daein invade Begnion out of revenge for its defeat in Ashnard's war.

[blah the Prussian]

FE7: Give Nergal a better motive

FE8: Make Eirika less of an idiot.

FE9: The big one. REMOVE BLACK KNIGHT FROM THE PREMISES! He's a terrible, personalityless Darth Vader ripoff, that only takes screen time away from the far more interesting Ashnard. Have Ashnard kill Greil and give him the Black Knight's scenes, and nothing of value will be lost.

FE10: Ike had his day. I'd want Elincia's development to get more time and have her be a deuteragonist with Micaiah.

FE13: Flesh out Gangrel more. Really go into detail about what makes him hate Ylisse so much, and have him be an actual popular ruler who has the support of his people to get revenge on Ylisse.

FE14: Use not goo Garon, you know, the harsh but fair warrior king. A much better villain.

[blah the Prussian]

Of deletings plox

Edited October 31, 2016 by blah the Prussian

[henrymidfields]

Binding Blade: Make Bern a bit more relentless instead of basically gradually buckling down to the Allies after Chapter 16. Particularly Narcian would be somewhat more competent. In Chapter 3, the entire Bern army would crush both Hector's and Roy's army, while Roy and his team had to flee and hide from there on. Eric and the traitors would also pick on Roy until Chapter 8, and Narcian and Co ended up cornering Roy at Ostia in Chapter 8. The end of Chapter 8-15 would remain as they originally were. Then Narcian would flee after the liberating Aquleia in Chapter 16, seemingly out of cowardice, when in reality, that was a feint, and he unleashed an arsenal of powerful dragons against the city, razing it as much as he could to deny resources to the enemy, (not unlike what von Cholitz was ordered to do against Paris in WWII) while Roy and Co have to desparately defend the city to survive. Despite Murdock and Brenya's displeasure at what they see as Narcian's incompetence (for Chapter 13-16) and bloodthirst (this version's Chapter 17), Zephyr allows this to happen because, as per the original story, he was intending to hand over the land to the dragons. Unfortunately, this plan gradually unravels as gradually more people back at home finds out and starts to get appalled. By the time Roy reaches Bern proper in Chapter 21-22, the whole empire implodes into civil war as the rebels supporting Guinevere fighting against those supporting Zephyr...

In fact, this is what I am thinking of doing when I would finally start writing my Binding Blade/Pokémon XY fanfic sometime in the not-so-near future. (PM me if you want to know more.)

Sacred Stones: A more equal division between Eirika and Ephraim's army with you taking control of both, and also have Ephraim his moments of screwing up due to his reckless behaviour. Innes would also have his own problems due to his hostile behaviour -> diplomatic failure/lost opportunity for alliance.

Shadow Dragon: A further expansion of why Medeus wants revenge for his species being percecuted. Also, more characters should join in the conversation besides Marth, and Malledus. I wouldn't mind a subplot with Marth x Caeda running through the whole arc. If Caeda is killed in battle, then Marth would have moments of grief.

Awakening: Oh for the love of everything good and holy, don't make the countries so one-sided for starters, and have better details in the world-building for seconds.

Fates: Make Hoshido starting off the smaller and weaker country, yet gradually becoming more ambitious, evil, and hell-bent on world domination as it grows its strength. And make Nohr as the invading country in the main game, but unwilling and only in it as a last-ditch attempt in self-defense. No, wait, that's my WWII propaganda LP version of Conquest.

Fates (a more serious answer): Remove Valla completely, and make Garon a well-intentioned extremist who attacked Hoshido out of desperation of his starving people, while Hoshido have you deal with some rotten noble people playing isolationist politics and status inequality in addition to repelling the Nohrian invasion.

[Alastor15243]

FE7: Give Nergal a better motive

Just checking, are you aware of the truth about his circumstances?

[Thane]

Path of Radiance

I feel the Black Knight's role in the story was actually well written. He's Ike's main adversary and the catalyst for his growth as a character. Isn't Ike's personal quest for revenge and his own growth into becoming a leader more poignant than "I must fight Ashnard because he's a bad guy I've never met"? Ashnard is important to the plot as the instigator of the conflict but he's more connected to Elincia than Ike. Think about how in the Princess Bride, Inigo Montoya's personal enemy is not the main villain, but one of his subordinates? Granted, Montoya isn't the main character, but it's more interesting than everyone being focused on the same villain.

Sure, that is more interesting, but I'm not a fan of either of the two villains. Just as Blah said, you could give Ashnard the Black Knight's scenes and nothing of value would be lost. Ike would have a personal reason to stop the conflict while at the same time saving the world, as opposed to having such a split focus to the point where he doesn't even recognize the final villain before the last battle.

Radiant Dawn

Indeed, the Blood Pact is the greatest flaw, but thankfully is easily fixable. Two solutions to this would be to have Begnion promise Daein it's independence on the promise that they support them in the war (with the implicit threat that they will return the country to the dirt if they don't comply), or have Sothe get captured by Begnion, to be used as a hostage to force Micaiah's obedience. I think this would add great moral depth (not that their wasn't already) to Micaiah's character because she'd have to choose between doing what's right and protecting the people she cares about.

I feel like Sothe being captured and held hostage would be a pitifully weak excuse for Micaiah to continue waging an entire bloody war nobody wants. If Daein and Begnion could reach some sort of deal - I haven't thought of what, maybe its independence like you say - it would make a lot more sense and everyone would still fight for what they believe in, at least to an extent.

Portraying someone doing something they really don't want to in that way while keeping the narrative balanced and engaging is really, REALLY easy to mess up - compare Ace Attorney case 2-4, which is widely considered one of the very best cases in the series, to 6-5, where they reuse the same plot device without understanding what made it so good in the first place.

Fates

Removing Valla is the simplest way of putting it but you'd basically need to tear the plot down to the roots to remove the bad. The plot should have been what was advertised in the original premise. A poor country goes to war with it's neighbor for resources and the protagonist is caught in the middle, forced between choosing his adopted family and a morally ambiguous cause and choosing his blood family and a righteous cause. Fates, the greatest Fire Emblem story never told.

Quite right, old sport.

I've seen this brought up and I don't think it's a fair comparison. The principle of Laguz leadership is like a warrior society, the strongest individuals are the most fit to lead. This fits them because this is how animal hierarchies generally function. Ashnard's philosophy is more akin to Social Darwinism, the strong should tyrannize the weak,

One would think that in a game trying to deal with racial tensions and racism that someone should bring it up. I mean, just how easy would it be for the Laguz to start acting like Ashnard? Skrirmir pre-character development could pose a serious threat to humans, and more than a few Laguz would wholeheartedly support him because he's the strongest.

Just checking, are you aware of the truth about his circumstances?

It's pretty much a Lyon done horribly, horribly wrong.

[blah the Prussian]

I'm sort of aware of them, but not really, but regardless if the villain's true motives are hidden from the player to that degree that isn't good writing.

[Sylphid]

I'm mostly echoing others, but here goes anyways. Will obviously skip games I haven't played or don't remember that well.

FE7: This is a tie between Nergal and Ninian issues already mentioned on this thread, but I'm going to go with making Ninian more active character, simply because I feel that there's isn't a single thing I could change to fully fix him (inconsistent plot power, not very competent subordinates and flip-flopping MO come to mind)

Sacred Stones: Ephraim and Eirika's screentime in the early game should be more balanced. (Honorable mention: have Ephraim actually lose and be captured after events of his sole chapter in the early game, and make Eirika's quest to save him actually be that)

PoR: Have the Daein invasion part of the story start by conquering back Crimea. This could also serve to make Ashnard's role be more prominent, which would have been my second pick.

RD: There are several options here, but I guess I'll go with giving Ike and the greil Mercenaries a far smaller role and making Micaiah the main character she was supposed to be.

Tellius in general: I agree with making the beorc-laguz racism more balanced between the two.

Awakening: Remove at least 1 arc from this game and give the freed chapters to the other ones. (Honorable mention goes to removing time travel, but I don't think that would actually fix the story on its own. I just don't like time travel)

I'm going to cheat a little and do Fates in three parts since it is three games.

Birthright: Make Birthright be about defending Hoshido against Nohr thus change pretty much the whole story. The invasion makes absolutely no sense for how badly planned (which is putting it nicely since it implies any planning) it is.

Conquest: Remove the Goo Garon, which will also make the incredibly stupid "let's invade Hoshido for Garon to defeat him" plot disappear (I could have just gone with the latter part which is my main issue with the plot but I like 2-in-1 options).

(Note: These two changes would make the final boss battles be in the capital of the side you pick, a story element I very much would enjoy)

Revelations: I haven't played it so can't say for sure, but all I've heard or read makes me think "remove Revelations from existence and just make a dlc that gives whole cast playable in post game or makes them recruitable in new game+". IS is obviously okay with compromising the story to give you supposedly dead characters as playable anyways.

[NekoKnight]

Sure, that is more interesting, but I'm not a fan of either of the two villains. Just as Blah said, you could give Ashnard the Black Knight's scenes and nothing of value would be lost. Ike would have a personal reason to stop the conflict while at the same time saving the world, as opposed to having such a split focus to the point where he doesn't even recognize the final villain before the last battle.

I feel like Sothe being captured and held hostage would be a pitifully weak excuse for Micaiah to continue waging an entire bloody war nobody wants. If Daein and Begnion could reach some sort of deal - I haven't thought of what, maybe its independence like you say - it would make a lot more sense and everyone would still fight for what they believe in, at least to an extent.

One would think that in a game trying to deal with racial tensions and racism that someone should bring it up. I mean, just how easy would it be for the Laguz to start acting like Ashnard? Skrirmir pre-character development could pose a serious threat to humans, and more than a few Laguz would wholeheartedly support him because he's the strongest.

Ashnard & BK: Perhaps it would have been possible to merge the two villains but I think they had more value being separate. I made this argument with Blah before, but imagine you had a story set in WWII about a French partisan fighting to free his country from the Nazis, along with the goal of killing an SS officer who burnt down his village. Does Hitler need to personally burn down the protagonist's village in order to be a worthy overarching antagonist? Does our hero not have a reason to keep fighting even after defeating his personal antagonist? Liberating Crimea, ending the war and restoring Elincia (the girl who started the entire quest) as the monarch is a good enough reason to keep fighting, whether or not Ike has a personal beef with Ashnard. And even if you felt Ike's story reached it's conclusion after the BK fight, there are only two chapters left in the game.

Micaiah's motivation: Fair enough. In hindsight, the ultimatum of doing justice or saving the life of a loved one was already given to Elincia so it would be redundant for Micaiah to take that (not to mention make her look weak compared to Elincia). So I stand by my "Begnion is a super power and they can make or break Daein, depending on Micaiah's actions" excuse.

Laguz: I see Laguz as a foil to Ashnard. Similar sounding philosophies that are handled in different ways. It would make them more morally grey if the beast Laguz (the other Laguz tribes are already openly hostile with Beorc) actively hunted and ate humans who lived near the border. I think it would detract from them if they were exactly the same as Ashnard. Give them a unique reason to provoke hostility.

I'm sort of aware of them, but not really, but regardless if the villain's true motives are hidden from the player to that degree that isn't good writing.

While I don't think Nergal is a bad character, if I had to change anything in the Blazing Sword plot, I'd make those story gaidens easier to unlock.

[Rezzy]

I think Ashnard could have been developed more while still keeping the Black Knight.

It would be a bit strange for the conquering king to personally follow the Greil Mercs into Laguz territory and kill Greil. That's what generals and henchmen are for.

[SageHarpuiaJDJ]

Blazing Sword:

Nils needs more love. He did more good than Ninian did and the revival thing was bullshit. That should've been Nils in place of Ninian. Also, why does Nils have to leave if Ninian gets to marry someone?

I thought Nergal was actually okay as a villain, but his story could've been touched on more. Same with Lyn. The main reason why FE's stories are so meh to me is because so many good arcs get pushed aside, and blazing sword is one game that does this alot.

Sacred Stones:

Give Ephraim more of a personality. I like the dude, but he has the most uninteresting personality by far. Even worse than Eliwood. Just being a great fighter is boring. Also, I'd like to know more about Riev, or have some other villain replace him altogether. I think Sacred Stones had the best story of the FEs that I played since you get an idea about the main characters and what happens that lead up to the events of the game.

Awakening:

I didn't mind the time travel stuff as I mind the three arcs things tbch. I honestly think that the main focus should've been Yilsse's and Plegia's beef, while Vaildar served a different role, maybe as an advisor to Gangrel. The Valm arc is just filler even though it has the elegant and sexy Say'ri, and the Grimeal arc should've meshed with the Plegia arc as stated. And yes, the final boss should've made more sense.

Fates:

Till this day I still think the hate that Fates gets storywise is blown out of proportion, but I can see the flaws and I don't have any problem with people who feel offended about the story. After reading over the main the Fates forum, I have to agree with the notion that Valla should not be included. I'd rather Conquest get more into Anankos' story like it was teasing about with Garon's constant mentioning of him, and he should've been the final boss. I mainly think the biggest drawback though is Corrin...'s family and retainers. Honestly, Corrin had the possibility to be the best protagonist of FE since his idea was new and interesting, but so many people ride his/her dick/vag throughout the entirety of all three arcs that it gets old. I don't think, unlike many, that Corrin is the problem, so removing him is a veeeery silly notion. I mean, I think Eliwood is bland and he's my least favorite Lord, but removing him as the main Lord would not make sense since he IS the focus on his route.

I'm honestly one of the few who doesn't really play FE for it's story, but I do like some of the premises of each and would like see some sort of improvement.

Edited October 31, 2016 by SageHarpuiaJDJ

[blah the Prussian]

Ashnard & BK: Perhaps it would have been possible to merge the two villains but I think they had more value being separate. I made this argument with Blah before, but imagine you had a story set in WWII about a French partisan fighting to free his country from the Nazis, along with the goal of killing an SS officer who burnt down his village. Does Hitler need to personally burn down the protagonist's village in order to be a worthy overarching antagonist? Does our hero not have a reason to keep fighting even after defeating his personal antagonist? Liberating Crimea, ending the war and restoring Elincia (the girl who started the entire quest) as the monarch is a good enough reason to keep fighting, whether or not Ike has a personal beef with Ashnard. And even if you felt Ike's story reached it's conclusion after the BK fight, there are only two chapters left in the game.

Micaiah's motivation: Fair enough. In hindsight, the ultimatum of doing justice or saving the life of a loved one was already given to Elincia so it would be redundant for Micaiah to take that (not to mention make her look weak compared to Elincia). So I stand by my "Begnion is a super power and they can make or break Daein, depending on Micaiah's actions" excuse.

Laguz: I see Laguz as a foil to Ashnard. Similar sounding philosophies that are handled in different ways. It would make them more morally grey if the beast Laguz (the other Laguz tribes are already openly hostile with Beorc) actively hunted and ate humans who lived near the border. I think it would detract from them if they were exactly the same as Ashnard. Give them a unique reason to provoke hostility.

While I don't think Nergal is a bad character, if I had to change anything in the Blazing Sword plot, I'd make those story gaidens easier to unlock.

The difference here is that WWII was an actual historical event, and, since Hitler historically speaking wasn't killed by a French partisan, it makes no sense to change it. It it was entirely fictional, however, and the story ends with the protagonist killing this fictional Hitler, I would consider it bad writing to devote most of the characterization to an SS officer and completely abandon characterization and development for Hitler, the main antagonist who the protagonist fights at the end. The difference here is that Hitler would be what TV tropes calls a Bigger Bad- the overarching cause of the conflict, but not the main antagonist. Ashnard, though, is the main antagonist, and as such doesn't get nearly enough attention. The Black Knight, meanwhile, is a bad character because the majority of his appeal is in the mystery as to his identity and motives; since the truth behind both of those is absolute horseshit, this ruins his character.

[Sylphid]

The Black Knight, meanwhile, is a bad character because the majority of his appeal is in the mystery as to his identity and motives; since the truth behind both of those is absolute horseshit, this ruins his character.

Wouldn't this be a problem of RD's writing, rather than PoR's though?

I agree Ashnard is underused, but don't think removing Black Knight is necessarily the answer. Also agree with what Rezzy said about Ashnard going after Greil and killing him not making much sense. (plus I find PoR version of the Black Knight a reasonably decent antagonist)

Edited October 31, 2016 by Sylphid

[NekoKnight]

The difference here is that WWII was an actual historical event, and, since Hitler historically speaking wasn't killed by a French partisan, it makes no sense to change it. It it was entirely fictional, however, and the story ends with the protagonist killing this fictional Hitler, I would consider it bad writing to devote most of the characterization to an SS officer and completely abandon characterization and development for Hitler, the main antagonist who the protagonist fights at the end. The difference here is that Hitler would be what TV tropes calls a Bigger Bad- the overarching cause of the conflict, but not the main antagonist. Ashnard, though, is the main antagonist, and as such doesn't get nearly enough attention. The Black Knight, meanwhile, is a bad character because the majority of his appeal is in the mystery as to his identity and motives; since the truth behind both of those is absolute horseshit, this ruins his character.

I wouldn't mind more characterization for Ashnard, but I don't think the Black Knight should or needs to be removed for this to happen. What I'm defending is the narrative structure of having the protagonist gunning for a lesser Big Bad. It makes more sense for the BK to be going on his personal quest of dickery than for Ashnard to be chasing after random mercenary bands.

[Thane]

I wouldn't mind more characterization for Ashnard, but I don't think the Black Knight should or needs to be removed for this to happen. What I'm defending is the narrative structure of having the protagonist gunning for a lesser Big Bad. It makes more sense for the BK to be going on his personal quest of dickery than for Ashnard to be chasing after random mercenary bands.

Does it make much more sense? Ashnard is a power-hungry bully on steroids who lives to fight; that pretty much fills all the criteria needed for wanting to take on one of the most skilled swordsmen that ever lived.

[Locke087]

It's pretty much a Lyon done horribly, horribly wrong.

Actually not really much like Lyon it's more like Anakin Skywalker... no really think about it just replace the force with dark magic and boom you get Negral. That being said I think it is done better that Anakin but that's not much of an accomplishment...

Edited October 31, 2016 by Locke087