FE8 FE8 Auction, bid turn-count handicaps experiment

[JudgeWargrave]

I got the first part down, but then Eir refused to crit. This happened multiple times, so I just said "screw it", and found another RN that gave a crit.

Anyway. . .just how mad will everyone be if I start playing fast and loose with the rules?

Are you starting from a reset? If the seeds aren't at the initial position then all bets are off. If you are, attack the enemy not on the forest, then burn 1 RN with Seth. Next turn sit on the forest and let the boss kill himself.

Personally, I don't mind you interpreting the rules however is most fun for you.

Anyway, I'm going a bit slow because I'm editing my RN viewing lua script with some new functionality and getting the bugs out is hard. Here's three more chapters though.

Chapter 3: The Bandits of Borgo - 7/19 turns, 1/4 RNs

Such a clog! Breaking the second wall on turn 2 blocks off everything because I can't also get a unit through, so I wait til turn 3. This gives me time to kill the chest key brigand on turn 2 EP. I was hoping for faster than 7 turns since I have 4 combat units, but Ross and Colm count for like 1/2 this chapter, and its more an issue of movement and lack of 2-range.

Chapter 4: Ancient Horrors - 5/24 turns, 2/6 RNs

Don't think I can get a 4 turn without any mounted units. Needed to burn some RNs for Garcia to survive EP3.

Chapter 5: The Empire's Reach - 6/30 turns, 0/6 RNs

Burnless baby. Sadly Moulder pulled the dragonshield straw and got no exp, as every last combat unit was needed EP2 and PP3. Got the guiding ring, naturally.

Levels

Level HP St Sk Sp Df Rs Lk W Percentile

Eirika 11.02 23 09 12 17 09 03 10 B 91.9

Moulder 04.32 21 05 06 09 03 06 01 C 96.3

Ross 07.75 17 08 04 07 06 03 09 D 86.8

Garcia 11.78 35 14 10 09 07 03 07 B 95.7

Colm 05.07 20 07 05 13 03 01 10 E 83.2

Natasha 01.25 base

Joshua 06.16 25 08 14 15 05 02 08 C 63.5

Team much above average, #riggedblessed

[eclipse]

I don't know why the RNG did what it did, but eh. Still, I don't think anyone else here uses a RN-viewing script, just good ol' fashion memorization/observation. Dunno what everyone else's thoughts on this are.

As for fast and loose. . .you'll find out. I have some plans for Chapter 9, since Ephraim solo is STUPID.

[General Horace]

actually thinking back I think we should have taken a Garcia penalty or something in Chapter 4 to save a few turns.

[JudgeWargrave]

Chapter 5x: Unbroken Heart - 6/36 turns, 1/7 RNs

After some fruitless hours trying to 6 turn this from scratch, I finally just looked up a solution: http://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?showtopic=42751. Pretty impressive to find that on a game boy. However, I did manage to find some minor improvement, and without even using any RN viewing. First of all, you don't need Reginleif to crit on T2, Steel Lance is enough. More importantly, there's an improvement on T5: Rather than attacking the monk, go down two steps with Forde and drink a vulnerary. Then move Orson onto the stairs and drop Ephraim right. The result is an extra luck for Ephraim, and an extra level and chest key for Forde. Forde holding that key should be useful when he shows up in 8!

Chapter 6: Victims of War - 4/40 turns, 0/7 RNs

Now officially below one RN burned per chapter! Initially I was aiming for less than one per two turns, but I'm far ahead of that now. Garcia goes over the mountains directly to Novala, drinking two vulneraries on the way. Moulder and Natasha fire off 4 and 3 torches (Natasha mends Ross) while everyone else self-improves. Boss kill delayed to EP to give Ross just enough time to reach level 10.

Unfortunately (or fortunately) I gave the Secret Book to Colm since his Skill is actually pretty poor. Only after I finished did I realize that Garcia probably wants it more. However, when giving Garcia the book, that small skill difference screwed something up on EP3. I was able to fix up another 4 turn, but the levels were worse, so actually it turned out that Colm getting the book was best after all.

Here's some standings of the chapters we've all finished so far:

[spoiler=Standings]

turns by chapter
Wargrave Egg Horace Carmine
0 02/02 02/02 02/02 02/02
1 05/07 05/07 05/07 04/06
2 05/12 05/12 06/13 05/11
3 07/19 13/25 07/20 05/16
4 05/24 13/38 08/28 04/20
5 06/30 06/44 06/34 04/24

turns behind leader, including handicap
W E H C
0 38 0 1 112
1 38 0 1 111
2 38 0 2 111
3 36 4 0 107
4 33 9 0 103
5 33 9 0 101

gains/losses relative to leader
W E H C
0 0 0 0 0
1 0 0 0 1
2 0 0 -1 0
3 2 -4 2 4
4 3 -5 0 4
5 0 0 0 2

I feel for ya Egg. Breaking down walls and routing with just one character....somehow I managed to see every single unit I drafted before chapter 6. I seem to have collected most of the middling early units actually: none of them are the best or worst.

Edited November 6, 2016 by JudgeWargrave

[eclipse]

For me, it would've required a clear of 9 turns, which I'm not sure would've been possible. The RN string was pretty bad, and there were a lot of restarts because Eir kept getting hit by the eyeballs. What I mean by "play fast and loose with the rules" is "force the AI to target an undrafted unit with status staves" as well as some other plans which I may need to invoke later. I'll already need one to ferry Amelia's useless rear out of the way, since I WILL need those Speedwings!

EDIT: 5x can bite me, because Ephraim manages to die on turn 2. Somehow.

Edited November 6, 2016 by eggclipse

[SB.]

Eirika and Garcia can duo Chapter 4 in 5 turns. I'm fairly sure Garcia handles the eyeballs and they both cross the bridge at the same time in order to stop any reinforcements from having time to spawn.

[Carmine Sword]

Chapter 11: 5/60

Franz, Tana, and Lute went left, Vanessa and Artur went down, and Gilliam and Eirika killed reinforcements while Gerik Longbowed dudes through the wall. Artur's almost to B Staves.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 12.70 22HP/10Str/16Skl/17Spd/12Lck/7Def/4Res B Swords

Franz Lv. 12/4.30 34HP/19Str/18Skl/19Spd/5Lck/14Def/4Res B Swords B Lances

Gilliam Lv. 10.84 31HP/12Str/8Skl/7Spd/4Lck/12Def/3Res B Lances

Vanessa Lv. 10/6.11 28HP/17Str/18Skl/22Spd/16Lck/14Def/14Res S Lances

Artur Lv. 12/2.57 29HP/17Mgc/14Skl/17Spd/7Lck/8Def/14Res B Light C Staves

Lute Lv. 8.08 21HP/13Mgc/6Skl/14Spd/12Lck/4Def/9Res C Anima

Tana Lv. 7.27 22HP/10Str/11Skl/16Spd/10Lck/6Def/9Res D Lances

Gerik Lv. 10/2.07 36HP/17Str/15Skl/14Spd/8Lck/14Def/8Res C Swords D Bows

Saleh Lv. --/1.00 Base

Tethys Lv. 1.50 Base

Chapter 12: 6/66

There was one spider on a cliff that was cancer since I had to kill it with a 31 displayed hit javelin from Gilliam followed by two back-to-back 45 displayed hit longbow strikes from Gerik. Saleh or Artur could have ORKOed it at much better hit rates, but having other people kill the spider let them build more staff rank. Artur reached B Staves and Saleh is about 3/4 of the way to B Staves.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 13.12 23HP/10Str/17Skl/18Spd/13Lck/7Def/4Res B Swords

Franz Lv. 12/5.77 35HP/20Str/19Skl/20Spd/6Lck/14Def/4Res B Swords A Lances

Gilliam Lv. 13.01 33HP/15Str/9Skl/9Spd/4Lck/14Def/3Res A Lances

Vanessa Lv. 10/7.57 29HP/18Str/19Skl/23Spd/17Lck/14Def/14Res S Lances

Artur Lv. 12/2.94 29HP/17Mgc/14Skl/17Spd/7Lck/8Def/14Res B Light B Staves

Lute Lv. 9.54 22HP/14Mgc/7Skl/14Spd/13Lck/5Def/10Res B Anima

Tana Lv. 9.29 24HP/11Str/11Skl/16Spd/11Lck/7Def/10Res C Lances

Gerik Lv. 10/2.32 36HP/17Str/15Skl/14Spd/8Lck/14Def/8Res C Swords D Bows

Saleh Lv. --/1.76 Base

Tethys Lv. 2.10 19HP/1Str/2Skl/12Spd/11Lck/5Def/5Res

Chapter 13: 2/68

Took an extra turn to get Saleh a bunch of wexp and get Lute to level 10.

Edited November 8, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[JudgeWargrave]

Chapter 7: Waterside Renvall - 5/45 turns, 0/7 RNs

I really thought the 4 turn was possible after getting Eirika, Ross and Colm across the river T2 with a little help from Moulder. The movement just worked out, but this time the combat didn't, as I had the unpleasant realization that Murray starts with Steel Sword equipped, making the Halberd not only only not 1HKO, but have 14 hit as well. Actually even if he had the javelin equipped it wouldn't 1HKO, so I settled for a 5 turn and broke Eirika's Rapier. Colm stole the Energy Ring before Ross killed the mage. Everyone else self-improved.

Chapter 8: It's a Trap! - 8/53 turns, 1/8 RNs

A turn save was again possible movement-wise, but the combat wasn't good enough. I could rescue-drop Eirika forward 3 spaces on the first turn so she could reach the throne on T7, but that would require her running into the armors' room first and having Garcia solo Tirado with a crit, not to mention getting past the throne room enemies without getting blocked. Well, if I used the Angelic Robe transferred to supply on Eirika as well as the Elixir and Dragonshield her survival would be quite likely actually...I might have tried it, but I also spent a bunch of time working on my lua script (among several things, incorporating Great Shield logic for obvious reasons) so I kinda just wanted to be done with the chapter. I contented myself with the 8 turn and killed Tirado with Iron Axe Garcia and Armorslayer Eirika. Forde's chest key turned out to be pointless as they couldn't reach the chests in time.

Level HP St Sk Sp Df Rs Lk %ile W

Eirika 15.00 24 11 15 20 10 05 12 87.8 B
Moulder 05.93 22 06 07 10 04 06 01 99.8 B
Ross 04.81 23 15 06 10 09 05 12 95.7 C
Garcia 17.75 39 18 15 11 09 03 10 97.0 A
Colm 07.53 22 08 08 13 03 02 11 64.4 D +secret book
Natasha 02.91 19 03 05 08 02 07 07 84.5 C
Joshua 09.90 28 09 15 16 07 03 10 81.5 C
Ephraim 10.35 29 13 14 13 10 02 11 85.3 C
Forde 09.11 27 08 11 10 08 02 08 56.0 D sw C ln
Kyle 07.11 27 09 08 08 10 01 06 44.7 D sw C ln

The new recruits need some attention. The reason Moulder's percentile is so ridiculously high after only two levels is because the stat weights I use to evaluate staffers is really heavy on mag and he got it both level ups.

I also noticed something odd about my team: I need two of each promotional item: 2 Knight's Crest, 2 Hero's Crest, 2 Guiding Rings, and 2 Ocean Seals, meaning 1 Ocean Seal and 1 Master Seal.

Let's see...I've gained 8 turns on Horace before the route split. I need to make up 29 more. If not for the fact that Horace has Cormag, I would say that's actually no problem because the endgame with no flier or warper would be hell. I've got no flier, but two warpers, so I should still save plenty of turns in the final third of the game, if not 29.

[General Horace]

You might do it honestly, the next few maps are gonna be pretty rough, and 16 without warp is bad too. Moulder's a pretty lame warper though.

Chapter 9 - 15/76 turns

This map was awful thanks to Neimi's paper durability. Burned throught the rest of my Elixir and several vulneraries. I think this might be the first time I ever have to buy Vulneraries in FE8.

Amelia trapped a dark mage in a corner and spammed a vulnerary to survive and got two levels before her tower session.

UNIT      LEVEL HP ST SK SP LC DF RS WEP LEVEL
EIRIKA    20.00 31 12 18 20 15 11 02 A SWORDS
EPHRAIM   15.13 33 14 15 16 14 11 07 A LANCES
NEIMI  13/03.45 33 13 15 17 08 07 11 B BOW D SWORD
AMELIA    01.00 24 08 08 12 13 05 05 D LANCES E SWORDS

Chapter 10 - 6/82 turns

Cormag get. Recruited him with Tana. Ephraim doubled the boss when he switched to the longbow and ORKO'd with Reginlief. Amelia might not be terrible. Gave Cormag a Secret book and Speedwing.

UNIT      LEVEL HP ST SK SP LC DF RS WEP LEVEL
EIRIKA    20.00 31 12 18 20 15 11 02 A SWORDS
EPHRAIM   17.25 35 15 15 18 16 12 08 A LANCES
NEIMI  13/03.89 33 13 15 17 08 07 11 A BOW D SWORD
AMELIA    04.64 26 09 09 14 15 06 05 C LANCES E SWORDS
CORMAG    09.82 30 14 11 12 04 12 02 C LANCES

Chapter 11 7/89 turns

Not too bad. Cormag took a pure water and Elixir and flew around getting eyeballs after dumping Ephraim on the ship on turn 1, Amelia took on enemies slowly up top and Neimi killed the boss on the turn 6 EP. Dozla get!

UNIT      LEVEL HP ST SK SP LC DF RS WEP LEVEL
EIRIKA    20.00 31 12 18 20 15 11 02 A SWORDS
EPHRAIM   18.47 36 15 15 18 16 12 08 A LANCES
NEIMI  13/05.31 34 14 17 19 09 08 11 A BOW D SWORD
AMELIA    11.57 28 12 10 16 20 08 06 B LANCES E SWORDS
CORMAG 13/01.00 34 18 16 18 05 14 03 B LANCES
DOZLA  ??/01.00 43 16 11 09 04 11 06 B AXES

Chapter 12 - 4/93 turns

Cormag flew to the boss and gooned him. He even got the entombed next to him for a big exp boost. Everyone else self improved.

Chapter 13 - 4/97 turns

Cormag flew to Selena and killed her on turn 2, (along with half the map), Dozla waterwalked and helped. Amelia rescued Neimi and Tethys danced them ahead to deal with the enemies on the right. Ephraim got the dudes near the start. It's nice the hatchet gives double WExp, Dozla will reach Garm easily. He's got two great levels so far too. Gave Cormag an energy ring (he'll need it to ORKO Vigarde), the talisman, and goddess icon.

Chapter 14 - 5/102 turns

Cormag was danced ahead turn 1, clearing the way for Dozla to kill the armour on turn 2 to let Amelia open the door for Cormag to move farther ahead. Dozla had to dodge a 50% Berserk here. Cormag opened the second door on turn 3, and had to dodge a 66% Berserk and a 36% sleep, Dozla could get hit by the second Berserk without consequence. Neimi killed one of the Berserk druids turn 4, and Cormag killed the other, and Amelia dropped Ephraim in range to seize. Cormag had to dodge another sleep here. Cormag ORKO'd Vigarde and Eph seized after Neimi killed Rennac for the spear.

Chapter 15 - 5/107 turns

Cormag went north with an axereaver and killed Caellach, then helped rout the pegasi reinforcements. Everyone else went towards Valter, Dozla put in some work with the Halberd, Neimi Lancereaver, and Amelia Dragonspeared most of the wyverns, including Valter (she ORKO'd him). Innes got the swiftsoles and they were immediately used on Cormag post chapter.

Chapter 16 - 6/113 turns

It's a good thing the druids in the throne room prioritize eclipse over their other tomes. Cormag flew Eph to the throne, and Eph chipped Orson on turn 5 EP (breaking Reginlief) and Cormag finished with Silver. Dozla is a swing away from Garm.

Chapter 17 - 2/115

Cormag flew to Lyon and gooned him.

Chapter 18 - 6/121 turns

THE S SWORDS NEIMI DREAM IS REAL. She'll reach it next chapter. Cormag flew up top with Neimi, followed a little bit later by Ephraim and Myrrh. Eirika and Innes took out the south portion, while Dozla and Tethys mozied over to the rightmost enemies after Amelia nuked the Gorgon around there with Vidofnir before heading up. Innes hit S bows.

Chapter 19 - 2/123 turns

Cormag flew to Riev and gooned him with the Brave Lance he found along the way. Neimi hit S Swords.

Chapter 20 - 3/126 turns

Cormag flew Eph to the boss and killed him.

Chapter Final Part 1 - 2/128 turns

Cormag ferried Myrrh ahead and she killed Lyon.

Chapter Final Part 2 - 1/129 turns

Almost didn't happen. Eirika and Ephraim were 1 speed off doubling the demon king but thankfully Cormag and Myrrh were there to do the heavy lifting.

129+13 turn handicap for a total of 142 turns total I guess!

Now for unit analysis..

UNIT         LEVEL HP ST SK SP LC DF RS WEP LEVEL 
EIRIKA    20/04.23 37 14 22 24 18 15 07 S SWORDS

She was good in her prologue chapters due to being extremely overlevelled really quickly. Seemed pretty average overall though, barring her awful res (-5). 131 B 88 W

EPHRAIM   20/05.69 45 21 23 23 19 18 15 S LANCES

Is Ephraim ever bad? pretty average over here too with a bit of extra def/res. 139 B 97 W

NEIMI     13/12.20 37 17 19 24 14 09 12 A BOW S SWORD

Neimi with extra speed! She actually did some good things by existing early like breaking the walls in chapter 3 and helping with the chapter 4 rout. Kind of a poor man's Franz on promotion, without the 1-2 range. She was still a mount that killed things sometimes. If she had +1 str/spd for Fort Rigwald I probably would have saved several turns there. Value heavily inflated because of lack of other earlygame units. 191 B 108 W

AMELIA    13/08.87 35 15 15 23 24 11 08 S LANCES C SWORDS

She's really not too bad in drafts, more or less Kyle/Forde without Chapter 9. Mine was pretty speed blessed but most of the speed was superfluous. Helped by having 8 movement to Neimi's 7 in some places, and had (bad) 1-2 range. Still was pretty useful for the midgame maps, especially 11-15, even killing Valter. 134 B 69 W. Note ~20 of those are from the tower.

CORMAG    13/18.66 48 25 22 26 13 18 08 S LANCES

I thought he'd be way above average but turns out Cormag is just ridiculous. Tana and Vanessa can't compare to his midgame on Ephraim route, he literally does it all, ORKO from 1-2 range with good bulk and adequete speed, along with something the latter two struggle with: bosskilling. It helped I didnt have to blow an energy ring on a warper to help him kill Vigarde. 156 B 123 W

DOZLA     ??/08.67 47 21 13 14 06 14 09 S AXES

Mostly took up space and did very little asides from some water walking in Selena's map and being an extra body to kill eggs. He helped a bit in the desert I guess too, 78 B 50 W

INNES     ??/04.97 32 16 14 16 15 10 10 S BOWS

The short bow gives ridiculous WExp, now I understand why it's so expensive. Innes's only value was getting the swiftsoles and killing eggs. 25 B 15 W

MYRRH        17.77 35 31 27 17 09 35 21 DRAGON

Stats are with dragonstone boosts. She did very little until it was time to kill the last two bosses of the game. Helped rout eggs I guess. 26 B 19 W

Edited November 8, 2016 by General Horace

[JudgeWargrave]

Wow, well done Horace! No way am I cutting 29 turns out of that. My estimation of Cormag definitely rose from this. I guess if there's one unit you need to lean on, having it be transport and boss-killer in one would be best. And to think you bid 3.1 on him! (Albeit his adjusted cost was 5.55) What a steal! Dangit, if I had bid >= 3.11, you would have ended up with Colm instead! I think Carmine got the closest to his proper value. Then again, he would shine best with no one else to compete with. If he was on a team that already had a flier, or combat unit and warper, maybe he wouldn't look like such a beast.

[Carmine Sword]

Chapter 14: 7/75

Gerik went left to get the Energy Ring and the Dragonspear while Artur and Lute went in the middle door so that Lute would get hit by enemies so that Artur could heal her for Staff exp. Everyone else went in the right-most door. Pulled some cheese and rigged a Thunder crit on Rennac so that Saleh could use Unlock on the door instead for more staff exp. Saleh was usually able to use staves twice per turn on most turns thanks to Tethys. Performed an elaborate trade chain to give the Hammerne Staff to Saleh so that he could repair the Barrier Staff and start spamming it again (it was down to one use left). Vanessa exactly ORKOed the boss with the Silver Lance ayyy.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 14.25 24HP/10Str/18Skl/19Spd/13Lck/7Def/4Res B Swords

Franz Lv. 12/6.01 36HP/21Str/20Skl/21Spd/6Lck/14Def/4Res B Swords A Lances

Gilliam Lv. 13/1.07 36HP/17Str/10Skl/11Spd/4Lck/16Def/4Res E Swords A Lances D Axes

Vanessa Lv. 10/9.35 30HP/19Str/20Skl/25Spd/18Lck/15Def/14Res S Lances

Artur Lv. 12/4.41 31HP/19Mgc/15Skl/17Spd/7Lck/8Def/15Res B Light B Staves

Lute Lv. 10/1.60 25HP/17Mgc/8Skl/15Spd/14Lck/8Def/12Res A Anima D Staves

Tana Lv. 10.54 25HP/12Str/11Skl/17Spd/12Lck/7Def/10Res C Lances

Gerik Lv. 10/2.90 36HP/17Str/15Skl/14Spd/8Lck/14Def/8Res C Swords C Bows

Saleh Lv. --/5.52 32HP/24Mgc/19Skl/17Spd/12Lck/10Def/14Res S Anima B Light B Staves

Tethys Lv. 3.00 20HP/1Str/2Skl/13Spd/11Lck/5Def/6Res

Edited November 8, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[General Horace]

Wow, well done Horace! No way am I cutting 29 turns out of that. My estimation of Cormag definitely rose from this. I guess if there's one unit you need to lean on, having it be transport and boss-killer in one would be best. And to think you bid 3.1 on him! (Albeit his adjusted cost was 5.55) What a steal! Dangit, if I had bid >= 3.11, you would have ended up with Colm instead! I think Carmine got the closest to his proper value. Then again, he would shine best with no one else to compete with. If he was on a team that already had a flier, or combat unit and warper, maybe he wouldn't look like such a beast.

The thing is Cormag would have been worthless on Carmine's Eirika route centric team, since he costs several turns. Cormag is only useful if you go Ephraim route, which is probably a little longer in drafts.

[Carmine Sword]

Chapter 15: 5/80

Took an extra turn so that Artur would reach A Staves. Saleh's chances of death were pretty bad since Artur has to use Barrier on him instead of Mend or else Artur wouldn't reach A Staves. Vanessa picked up Saleh and was danced so she could drop him on a tree down south where he killed everything. Franz went left and killed Callech and his goons and got the Warp Staff. Gilliam killed the Pegasus Knight reinforcements. Tana killed the merc and dank mage south of Callech's group and got the Master Seal village. Ephraim killed the myrmidons. His strength sucks RIP. But he has capped speed so maybe he'll double the Demon King!

Chapter 16: 1/81

Ayyy.

Chapter 17: 1/82

Yep. Tried to feed Tana and Ephraim some dudes on enemy phase but Lyon attacked first for some reason and died immediately. He doesn't usually do that.

Stats:

Eirika Lv. 15/1.00 28HP/13Str/21Skl/21Spd/14Lck/11Def/10Res A Swords

Ephraim Lv. 16/1.00 35HP/15Str/19Skl/22Spd/11Lck/13Def/9Res B Lances

Franz Lv. 12/8.02 38HP/23Str/22Skl/21Spd/7Lck/14Def/4Res B Swords A Lances

Gilliam Lv. 13/1.71 36HP/17Str/10Skl/11Spd/4Lck/16Def/4Res E Swords A Lances D Axes

Vanessa Lv. 10/12.01 32HP/21Str/22Skl/26Spd/19Lck/16Def/14Res S Lances

Artur Lv. 12/6.81 33HP/21Mgc/16Skl/18Spd/7Lck/8Def/15Res B Light A Staves

Lute Lv. 10/1.76 25HP/17Mgc/8Skl/15Spd/14Lck/8Def/12Res A Anima D Staves

Tana Lv. 11/1.11 29HP/15Str/12Skl/19Spd/13Lck/9Def/11Res B Lances

Gerik Lv. 10/3.08 38HP/18Str/15Skl/15Spd/8Lck/15Def/8Res C Swords C Bows

Saleh Lv. --/8.84 33HP/27Mgc/20Skl/19Spd/14Lck/12Def/15Res S Anima B Light A Staves

Myrrh Lv. 1.00 Base

Tethys Lv. 3.71 20HP/1Str/2Skl/13Spd/11Lck/5Def/6Res

Chapter 18: 5/87

I think this is the first time I've done this chapter in 5 turns in a draft. I usually get 6 cause there'd always be one egg I couldn't reach by Turn 5.

Chapter 19: 1/88

Yep. Most of the chapter was spent burning RNs so that Saleh would proc defense so he could survive a hit from the Demon King. Had Franz kill a General on enemy phase so that he'd hit S Lances.

Chapter 20: 1/89

The boss was cancer since he OHKOed Vanessa. Had to either get a Killer Lance pierce-crit or dodge a 78 displayed hit attack and get a pierce with Vidofnir. Opted for the former method. Vanessa also had to proc HP or resistance to survive a hit from Lyon for better reliability.

The End, Part 1: 1/90

Rigged HP on Saleh so he'd survive a hit from the Demon King. Vanessa could survive a hit from Lyon with 1 HP after proccing HP last chapter, but she got a Killer Lance pierce-crit on the first attack, so it didn't even matter.

The End, Part 2: 1/91

Artur warped Saleh up so he could chip the Demon King for 23 x 2 damage. Vanessa then chipped him for 17 x 2 damage. Eirika took Vidofnir from Vanessa, and Franz took it from Eirika and chipped for 18 x 2 damage. Artur was then danced and Rescued Myrrh up to finish him off. Could have used Ephraim instead but Myrrh had higher hit on the boss.

Final Turncount: 91 + 124 = 215

lol, 215 turns. At least I'll beat Eclipse.

Final Stats:

Eirika Lv. 15/1.90 28HP/13Str/21Skl/21Spd/14Lck/11Def/10Res A Swords

Ephraim Lv. 16/2.33 35HP/16Str/20Skl/23Spd/12Lck/14Def/9Res B Lances

Franz Lv. 12/10.16 40HP/24Str/23Skl/23Spd/7Lck/15Def/4Res A Swords S Lances

Gilliam Lv. 13/2.38 37HP/18Str/10Skl/11Spd/4Lck/17Def/4Res E Swords A Lances C Axes

Vanessa Lv. 10/16.66 35HP/23Str/23Skl/28Spd/22Lck/16Def/14Res S Lances

Artur Lv. 12/8.49 33HP/22Mgc/18Skl/18Spd/7Lck/8Def/15Res B Light A Staves

Lute Lv. 10/4.22 26HP/20Mgc/9Skl/17Spd/15Lck/8Def/13Res A Anima D Staves

Tana Lv. 11/3.20 30HP/16Str/13Skl/20Spd/14Lck/10Def/11Res B Lances

Gerik Lv. 10/5.58 39HP/19Str/15Skl/15Spd/9Lck/15Def/9Res C Swords C Bows

Saleh Lv. --/12.41 37HP/28Mgc/20Skl/23Spd/14Lck/14Def/15Res S Anima B Light A Staves

Myrrh Lv. 2.00 17HP/16Str/14Skl/6Spd/3Lck/18Def/27Res

Tethys Lv. 4.61 21HP/1Str/2Skl/14Spd/12Lck/5Def/7Res

Edited November 12, 2016 by Carmine Sword

[JudgeWargrave]

Good job on finishing Carmine, though as you said the handicap was indeed more than it takes to finish the game, by about 4/3rds even, lol.

Chapter 9A: Distant Blade - 13/66 turns, 0/8 RNs

The first chapter I consider my result truly bad. At least I didn't bother burning any RNs to get such a poor turn count. Assumed sending Forde+Kyle forward first was best and planned to kill the boss with them. Indeed, they were able to get there without too much trouble, but they were totally unable to kill the boss efficiently and I instead sent them back to retrieve Josh and his Killing Edge to do the job properly. I was unwilling to redo the chapter considering I was already double digits deep. I'll consider the boss kill a lot more carefully next time....

On the plus side, I got all the items, even Amelia's Speedwings (stolen by Colm) and another Robe for both villages intact. Forde got the 1st robe and 1st shield in prep, and wings mid-chapter, since he started closer to promoting, so I want to funnel as much combat to him as possible before promotion. It also made it possible for him to run forward without needing to stick to the healers.

Chapter 10A: Revolt at Carcino - 6/72 turns, 0/8 RNs

Better. Josh killed Pablo (double crit with Killing Edge, though only one was needed) and Eirika seized. I had Natasha with unlock and Colm available to open the door on T3, Natasha got the honors since Colm needed to fight and Unlock is better exp than Heal anyway. Forde and Kyle managed to support. I'm kinda surprised Ross/Garcia or Natasha/Joshua didn't get one first because I feel like I've been putting them together all the time. Everyone else got levels rigged via combat permutation, except Kyle, who through bad luck keeps getting level ups on EP.

Level Hp St Sk Sp Df Rs Lk %tile W

Eirika 16.09 25 11 16 20 10 06 13 83.7 A
Moulder 07.49 24 08 08 10 04 06 02 99.4 B
Ross 10.68 27 16 10 13 13 05 16 98.4 B
Garcia 18.31 40 19 15 11 10 04 11 98.8 A
Colm 13.81 28 11 13 17 06 03 14 94.7 C book
Natasha 04.73 20 05 05 08 04 09 09 99.6 C
Joshua 14.48 32 13 18 19 10 06 11 99.1 B
Ephraim 10.35 29 13 14 13 10 02 11 85.3 C
Forde 13.07 37 12 15 15 12 03 11 99.8 D sw B ln Kyle C; robe, wings, shield
Kyle 11.73 31 10 09 10 12 02 06 43.5 D sw C ln Forde C

Tethys Base

Everyone except the lords and staffers are promoteable. Promo items available are 2x gRing, kCrest, hCrest, and Ocean Seal. Stat booster available are Robe, eRing, Shield, and Icon. Ross gets priority over Colm due to movement bonus and peak walking. Garcia and Forde get priority over Joshua and Kyle due to higher levels. Therefore Kyle, Joshua, and Colm will be waiting til Ch13, 14, and 15 respectively to get their promo items.

Edited November 12, 2016 by JudgeWargrave

[eclipse]

I probably won't have time to do this for a bit. Blame Trump and the ensuing posts. . .all ten pages of them!

[JudgeWargrave]

Chapter 11A: Creeping Darkness - 7/79 turns, 0/8 RNs

Garcia and Forde promote in prep. Warrior!Garcia goes down the western bottleneck alone, Eirika stays home on a forest to beat up revenant reinforcements, and everyone else runs into the building. Forde opens up a path for danced Kyle to drop Ross inside turn 1. Tethys continues to help units move forward quickly when combat requires it and helps staffers spam Torch on every other opportunity. Both Torch staves broke on T7. She also moves Forde the one extra tile needed to get into the tower on T7 and get next to the bonewalker since it refused to move on T7 EP. Got the Book and Short Spear from the chests. Ross kills the Deathgoyle for his final level before promotion next chapter.

Chapter 12A: Village of Silence - 8/87 turns, 0/8 RNs

I'm sad because this loses 4 turns to Horace's chapter 12B. Even though I gave up on catching up, taking twice as many turns still feelsbadman.

Ross eats the Ocean Seal and Secret Book, and starts off with a bang critting a spider as the first action of turn 1. Tethys dances him to get him over the mountains a turn sooner. Eirika again stays home to kill reinforcements with the help of a Lancereaver and Silver Sword. Garcia camps the southeast spawns. His speed is indeed sad, but he finished his job by turn 7 so it didn't slow me down. Rescue dropping while moving the horses is the name of the game to get everyone forward in time. Barrier staff is claimed turn 6 and is used 8 times via trading and Tethys before the end of the chapter. Sadly couldn't get Moulder to level 10. Boss's Halberd has 23 hit and does 26 to SteelSword!Forde so it's not even scary. Ross and Forde killed the last two enemies up in the mountains T8 EP.

hp st sk sp df rs lk %tile W
Eirika --/17.89 25 11 17 20 10 07 13 73.7 A
Moulder --/09.62 26 10 10 12 04 07 04 99.9 A icon
Ross 13/01.79 34 18 13 16 17 07 19 98.9 S book
Garcia 18/03.46 45 22 18 11 14 08 12 99.6 S axe, E bow
Colm --/14.64 28 11 14 17 07 04 15 94.3 C book
Natasha --/07.05 22 08 05 11 05 11 11 99.8 B
Joshua --/15.41 33 13 18 20 11 06 11 99.4 B
Ephraim --/10.35 29 13 14 13 10 02 11 85.3 C
Forde 13/04.57 42 14 19 17 16 04 12 99.6 C sw, A ln Kyle C robe, wings, shield
Kyle --/15.49 35 13 12 13 14 03 07 92.1 D sw, B ln Forde C
Tethys --/02.52 18 01 02 12 06 05 11 76.9

Why yes, Moulder and Natasha have gotten magic every single level up. It's generally easier to rig their levels since they never level up on enemy phase. Tethys will benefit from this too, but her stats are far less important.

Edited November 13, 2016 by JudgeWargrave

[Carmine Sword]

Why Warrior!Garcia? He's too heavy for Forde/Kyle to rescue and doesn't get speed on promotion.

[JudgeWargrave]

Why Warrior!Garcia? He's too heavy for Forde/Kyle to rescue and doesn't get speed on promotion.

Mainly because the Hero str cap is so low he might actually hit it, and so he would hit S axes a little sooner. I'm not sure if carrying Garcia with Forde/Kyle would've been useful. If I'm carrying anyone with them, its probably Eirika right? And if I need to bring an axe-wielding combat unit, Ross will likely get the job done at this point. Maybe I will regret the speed loss though.

[Carmine Sword]

25 strength is still fine. I'm not sure if Garcia hitting S Axes even matters since you have Ross for that.

The extra 2 speed would let him double half of the gargoyles in Chapter 12, since they have 9-10 speed if they're not weighed down.

[JudgeWargrave]

Chapter 13A: Hamill Canyon - 2/89 turns, 0/8 RNs

When Halberd!Ross, Hammer!Garcia, and HeavySpear!Forde can all get within movement range of a Great Knight on turn 1, you can probably kill that Great Knight on turn 2. Moulder reaches level 10 and eats a few energy rings to create THIS:

Luck 5? Yeah right, lacking knowledge of their universe's prng, Eirika's army must think Moulder is the luckiest priest ever. Yeah this was mostly for the lols. If I made him a Sage, fed him another energy ring, and got 8 more magic level ups, he could reach 26 mag, which IIRC is needed to do Chapter 20 in one warp? I'm not sure he can even reach level 9 by then. Anyway he already missed his first magic level up next chapter.

Chapter 14A: Queen of White Dunes - 7/96 turns, 0/8 RNs

Kyle promotes to Paladin in prep. Another messy slog through narrow corridors. Appropriately this took the same time as the similarly cramped Chapter 3. Garcia and Colm go west, Moulder and Joshua mid, everyone else follows Rennac. Eirika kills him T2 to get him out of the way (sorry dude, thanks for opening the door). I was thinking about Hammerne-ing the Barrier for more Natasha exp, but I want to reserve more than 9 warps actually. Its a narrow thing, but through a lot of rescues and dances, Eirika, Ross, Forde, Kyle, and Tethys make it to Carlyle in 7 turns, Natasha having been left behind in the frantic rush. Ross and Kyle clear out impeding mooks and Forde crits Carlyle with a Silver Lance. Joshua gets the Jehenna Sacred Twins and promotes to Swordmaster post-chapter.

level hp st sk sp df rs lk &tile W
Eirika 18.93 26 11 17 20 10 08 13 63.1 A
Moulder 10/02.92 30 17 12 14 08 09 05 99.8 C lt, A stv +icon, 2ring
Ross 13/03.20 36 20 14 17 19 07 19 99.8 S +book
Garcia 18/04.23 46 23 18 12 14 08 12 99.5 S ax, E bow
Colm 16.30 30 13 15 19 07 05 16 99.1 C +book
Natasha 08.18 23 09 06 11 06 11 12 99.9 A
Joshua 16/01.00 39 16 19 20 13 07 12 99.8 A
Ephraim 10.35 29 13 14 13 10 02 11 85.3 C
Forde 13/06.59 44 15 21 18 16 04 12 99.8 C sw S ln Kyle C +robe, wings, shield
Kyle 15/01.97 37 14 13 14 16 04 07 95.4 C sw B ln Forde C
Tethys 03.43 19 01 02 13 06 06 12 74.7

By the way, if anyone can help me out with the exp gain formula http://serenesforest.net/the-sacred-stones/miscellaneous/calculations/ Moulder as a level 2 Bishop killed a level 12 Archer and gained 17 exp, but the formula seems to say he should gain 10. 7 from damage, then we have 12*3-(22*3+40)=-70, so it becomes 12*3-(22*3+40)/2 = -17, then +20 for a total of 7-17+20=10?

[Carmine Sword]

With 2 Hammerne uses you get 13 Warps, not 9.

[Irysa]

By the way, if anyone can help me out with the exp gain formula http://serenesforest...s/calculations/ Moulder as a level 2 Bishop killed a level 12 Archer and gained 17 exp, but the formula seems to say he should gain 10. 7 from damage, then we have 12*3-(22*3+40)=-70, so it becomes 12*3-(22*3+40)/2 = -17, then +20 for a total of 7-17+20=10?

[31 + (12 + 0) - (2 + 20)] / 3 = 7

[(12 * 3) + 0] - {[(2 * 3) + 40] / 1} = -10

7 - 10 + 20 = 17

I think the site lists the information slightly misleadingly, you would only change the mode coefficient to a 2 if the final result is negative, not if the base EXP from defeating is negative. You input the wrong numbers anyway, Class Power is not Class Bonus A + Level.

Edited November 15, 2016 by Irysa

[JudgeWargrave]

With 2 Hammerne uses you get 13 Warps, not 9.

Well looks like I can't count to three I uh, I'm superstitious.

[31 + (12 + 0) - (2 + 20)] / 3 = 7

[(12 * 3) + 0] - {[(2 * 3) + 40] / 1} = -10

7 - 10 + 20 = 17

I think the site lists the information slightly misleadingly, you would only change the mode coefficient to a 2 if the final result is negative, not if the base EXP from defeating is negative. You input the wrong numbers anyway, Class Power is not Class Bonus A + Level.

I see, thanks. Actually I didn't input Class Power as Class bonus A + Level, I input Level as Class bonus A + level, eg level 2 Bishop = level 22 unit. (22*3), not (2*22). Class bonus A is an oddly nondescriptive name, isn't it? And as for slightly misleadingly...well yeah, it says "If Experience from defeating (base) is calculated as 0 or negative" which is apparently just incorrect? I'd consider that more than slightly misleading.

It's kinda weird to me that the exp from kill doesn't count the level of promoted units as +20...except it sort of does via the "class bonus B". Actually (Level x Class power) + Class bonus B = (Level + Class bonus A)xClass power in most cases because Class bonus A x Class power = Class bonus B usually, since 0*X = 0 and 20*3=60. Assassins, Rogues, Bishops and Valkyries are the only exceptions seemingly.

So I guess when a promoted unit gains exp, its level counts as +20...unless you're one of those four classes, and you get a kill. What a weird way to buff them. Why not just make their class power be 2 as they did for Thieves, Clerics, and Priests, their unpromoted classes? Clerics and Priests can't even do damage, yet they bothered to set their Class power to 2...but not their promoted versions, that can actually get exp via these formulae.

Edit:

OK, on my way to work I realized there's a much simpler way to count promoted units as +20 and still make the exceptions for those classes: just subtract 20 from their value when it comes to killing them/killing with them. So if I understand everything correctly, the exp gain works as follows:

Minimum gain from combat: 1

Unit level: displayed level, +20 for promoted units

Unit class power (CP_unit): 3; 1 for Trainees, Civilian, Pontifex, or Entombed; 2 for Soldier, unpromoted staff user, Thief, Manakete, or Dancer; 5 for Demon King

Experience from damage (Exp_dmg): (31 + level_enemy - level_player)/CP_player

Unit kill value (KV_unit): Level_unit x CP_unit, - 20 for Bishop, Valkyrie, Assassin, or Rogue

Experience from kill: Exp_dmg + KV_enemy - KV_player + 20, +20 for enemy thief, +40 for enemy boss, +KV_player/2 if <=0, x1.8 if Silencer activated.

Hopefully I haven't made another basic math error here, but I think this is right, and it seems simpler to me than the class bonus A/B/mode coefficient stuff.

Edited November 15, 2016 by JudgeWargrave

[Irysa]

Nah that doesn't work out. Here's an example using your formula for if Moulder was a sage. Also I did some more calcs and checked the other calculation pages, and I think the whole mode coefficient thing is some leftover from copypasting the data from the FE7 calculations page. It should just be removed from the FE8 page entirely, unless Easy/Normal Mode modifies EXP gain (don't think they do).

(Exp_dmg) = (31 + 12 - 22) / 3

(Exp_dmg) = 7 (this is correct)

(KV_enemy) = (12 * 3)

(KV_enemy) = 36 (also correct)

(KV_player) = (22 * 3)

(KV_player) = 66 (also correct)

(Exp_kill) = 7 + 36 - 66 + 20 = -3 , BUT, doing 7 + 36 - 33 + 20 = 30, which is definitely not right. The correct answer is 7, I've checked this ingame.

So the correct formula on the site should just remove the Mode Coefficient thing entirely, as it would produce

(Exp_kill) = 7 + (36 - 66 + 20 = -10, so we take it as 0), so it's just 7 + 0 for 7.

For the FE7 page I'm still not sure it's actually displayed correctly because otherwise a similar calc should mean a promoted level 2 unit would get 30 Exp from a level 12 unpromoted, which can't be right. The /2 must be applied after (KV_enemy) - (KV_player), despite the fact it's currently in {} to indicate it being done to the Kill Value of the Player before it is subtracted. Changing that would mean instead of 36 - 33, we use (36 - 66)/2, for -15, and that would change our final kill EXP to 12 on ENM or HNM, and 7 on HHM, which seems correct (can't test right now though).

Edited November 16, 2016 by Irysa

[JudgeWargrave]

So if the kill exp is negative, it gets set to 0 so that it doesn't subtract from the damage exp, makes sense.

Experience from kill: Exp_dmg + max(0, KV_enemy - KV_player + 20, +20 for enemy thief, +40 for enemy boss), x1.8 if Silencer activated, though I don't know at what level the Silencer bonus is applied. I ought to check that myself, since I have an Assassin now.

Chapter 15: Scorched Sand - 5/101 turns, 0/8 RNs

Joshua becomes a Swordmaster and uses an Energy Ring, Moulder uses a Dragon Shield to survive some combat.

Very frustrating/satisfying to get the 5 turn on this one, had to restart many times to redistribute items and redeploy. Colm didn't have time to steal Caellach's Hoplon Guard because he had to kill a mercenary in the desert, so Joshua needed an Energy Ring to beat Caellach down with an Iron Blade over several turns. Added functionality for digging and Pierce to my lua script, and search event permutation capability, which made Player Phase a lot easier. When something becomes just too tedious, it's time to make a tool to do it easier and faster. That's what separates humans from animals! I'm sure not looking through 9!/15 possible combinations for the best one--computer, do it for me.

Ross digs up Boots turn 1 with a dance, Forde takes them from supply and wears them. Turn 2 he manages to drop Ross on the empty fort at the bottom and they start killing. Moulder helps in the desert, Garcia goes NE and digs up Silver Card while killing pegs. Josh, Colm, and Kyle go NW and get Warp, Silence, and Wyrmslayer. Ephraim kills a shaman and gets a Master Seal. Ross kills Valter with the Dragon Axe and some chip damage from Forde. Duessel tries to dig up Body Ring but fails.

Grado Sacred Twins get.

Chapter 16: Ruled by Madness - 2/103 turns, 0/8 RNs

Colm becomes an Assassin and Eirika uses a Robe.

Another tricky one despite how short it is. Only a warped Forde can get Eirika in range to seize on T2PP, but he obviously can't clear the way alone. Kyle isn't proficient enough, so I need to send up a 6 move unit, requiring two more warps. Fortunately Warp has a range of at least 5, so 9 mag Natasha can still send Ross past the initial 4-tile-thick wall before Warp gets moved forward by Kyle so Moulder can take it to warp Forde+Eirika. Then Forde and Eirika must survive EP in the throne room with no more than one enemy in Eirika's path. Eirika uses my last booster, a Robe, and drinks Pure Water to increase her chances. She's up against the wall with Forde and a priest on two of her sides, so she only has to take one direct attack. I have Forde equip a javelin so as to leave a weakened Knight so that a path can be made. Moulder warps Ross on T2 and he Garms the crap out of Orson. Everyone else gets some combat in where they can, and Eirika seizes.

Renais Sacred Twins get.

Chapter 17: River of Regrets - 1/104 turns, 0/8 RNs

The twins promote.

Again two Warps are required, and therefore a Hammerne. Moulder warps Ross from his starting position, Natasha Hammernes (and reaches 10 finally!), Moulder gets a dance and warps Ross even further. Ross needs two Hand Axe crits. There are three RN strings in range. I take the latest one so I can fit a bit of combat in, but sadly Ephraim can't get a combat in even though he could kill a Paladin, and my levels are worse than average due to the restriction of Ross's combat. But my stats are probably good enough at this point, and RNs can't be unburned, so I'll suck up a few 1-stat levels.

Amusing fact: with Fenrir equipped, Lyon has 1 attack speed. What a terrible tome.

Frelian Sacred Twins get. And Rescue staff. Natasha becomes a Valkyrie.

level hp st sk sp df rs lk %tile W
Eirika 19/01.00 38 14 19 21 14 13 14 64.7 S robe
Moulder 10/07.15 34 18 16 17 14 11 06 99.9 B lt, S stv; icon, 2ring, shield
Ross 13/07.13 38 21 16 18 19 07 20 98.0 S book
Garcia 18/05.11 46 24 19 12 15 08 12 99.9 S ax, E bow
Colm 18/01.08 35 15 15 20 10 08 17 98.6 B book
Natasha 10/01.00 27 12 08 12 08 14 13 99.5 D lt, A stv
Joshua 16/02.58 40 19 20 21 13 08 13 99.9 S shield
Ephraim 15/01.00 37 16 20 19 16 08 14 94.9 B
Forde 13/08.15 44 15 23 20 16 04 12 98.7 C sw S ln Kyle C; robe wings shield boots
Kyle 15/03.06 39 16 14 15 16 05 08 98.1 C sw A ln Forde C
Tethys --/04.24 20 01 02 14 06 07 12 52.0
Myrrh --/01.85 base

Edited November 19, 2016 by JudgeWargrave