Fire Emblem: Genealogy of the Holy War 2017 Tier List - Day 39: The support kids (Corple, Lene, Sharlow and Laylea)

[CappnRob]

Jamuka's critical is the big problem with him. Plus he doubles most people with his pursuit, Ayra and Jamuka have the same battle speed at recruitment (11; Ayra has 17 and a 6 weight iron blade, Jamuka has 14 and a 3 weight killer bow). I forget if Awareness cancels out Continue and Duel, but even if they don't noone can really do much about them. Cuan, Lex and Sigurd can tank the hits easier but are vulnerable to crits, plus unless you disarm Cuan/Lex he's going to get doubled.

 

As for axemen ignoring her, she has 24 evade at base, +20 more for weapon triangle advantage, and another +20 from the spirit forest terrain, for a total of 64. This is high, but Jamuka's axedudes all have hitrates of around 70 or 80%, meaning they have a slight chance at hitting her, and thus will take that chance. The evade-so-high-people-ignore-you thing comes from having hitrates of 0% or "less". Even if they do ignore her, she can still cut them down on player phase, and possibly chokepoint them at the passage to Verdane castle. There's also the axedudes at Verdane castle itself.

 

As for the second half of Chapter 2, its a mixed bag. Ballistas are a pain but their initial hit accuracy is awful (like, 60%?). There's some lance dudes which can cause problems, but she isn't going to be fighting alone. She does fine in Chapter 3, though, especially since she'll be swinging the hero's sword around for at least the first castle, after which you may wish to hock it to someone who can benefit from it better like Noish. 

[Valkama]

Sigurd is also giving her evade if he is near by and she's going to gain some more evade if you send her to the arena, it's actually very likely that they will have 0 hit.

[Inference]

Yeah, I knew someone was going to say that someone other than Sigurd was going to get a chance to use the Brave Sword, even though as a player, I would never, ever let that happen. Other units can technically 'benefit' from the Brave Sword because it brings their combat up to par, but none of those units can get it up to 50 kills by the end of Gen 1 as reliably as he can. That Brave Sword is huge for Seliph, as it allows him more reliable kill setups on bosses to seize the throne on the same turn.

I know Ayra has a lot of fans because of her looks or something, but letting her hold onto a contested resource like that is meaningless pandering that negatively affects the outcome of the game. And Noish? Seriously?

[General Horace]

Sigurd doesn't need the brave sword until the end of chapter 5, his offence is more than fine with just silver.  It's kinda like this, say Sigurd is a 10/10 unit with or without the brave sword (he is), and Noish is a 4 without it, but a 7 with it.  It's always more useful to have a 10 and a 7 than a 10 and a 4.  Sigurd doesn't need the hero sword to kill any boss in gen 1 (except maybe Langbart, I forget) unlike Celice who needs it to kill the tougher gen 2 bosses, so it's not a huge loss for him.  Plus Sigurd can build kills on another weapon like the light/thunder sword or something while Noish/Beowulf/whoever get kills on the hero sword that they wouldn't get with another weapon.

[Flee Fleet!]

To be honest, Sigurd only really needs a Silver Sword for most of Gen1. He has Pursuit and thus can easily ORKO everyone with it. He gets it in the prologue as well so he can possible get 50 kills with it.

 

Edited February 4, 2017 by Flee Fleet!

[CappnRob]

Sigurd does just fine with the Silver Sword for pretty much all of G1 until you get the Tyrfing by which point I just use that because hey enjoy it while you got it. I let Ayra hold onto the hero sword generally until she promotes then pass it around to whoever needs it. Needless pandering is being a bit rude I think because not everyone really cares about completing the game in the most efficient machine-like way possible. You don't even need 50 kills for G2 given how G2 is such a general steamroll anyway, especially the first chapter or so. I can get the hero sword to around 30 in G1 playing casually and passing it around as needed and the last 20 in the early half of G2. Hell even Celice doesn't really need the hero sword if he just inherits the elite ring, dude's gonna hit 20 during Chapter 7 or early Chapter 8 easily and can more than hold his own. My current FE4 run has the Hero Sword, Lance and Axe all at 50+ kills by the time I'm in chapter 9, they all shine more than enough.

[FionordeQuester]

1 hour ago, General Horace said:

Sigurd doesn't need the brave sword until the end of chapter 5, his offence is more than fine with just silver.  It's kinda like this, say Sigurd is a 10/10 unit with or without the brave sword (he is), and Noish is a 4 without it, but a 7 with it.  It's always more useful to have a 10 and a 7 than a 10 and a 4.  Sigurd doesn't need the hero sword to kill any boss in gen 1 (except maybe Langbart, I forget) unlike Celice who needs it to kill the tougher gen 2 bosses, so it's not a huge loss for him.  Plus Sigurd can build kills on another weapon like the light/thunder sword or something while Noish/Beowulf/whoever get kills on the hero sword that they wouldn't get with another weapon.

Oh you DEFINITELY don't need an Uber Hero Sword for Langbart.  I mean it's nice, but...

Turns out, Sigurd's just fine either way.  No joke; this actually happened on my AAAA Ranked Run.  And with just 85 Kills 

Edited February 4, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[Yojinbo]

Not sure what's supposed to be so special about it. 85 kills = +35% critical rate.

[FionordeQuester]

Mainly it's the fact that it happened on the very first round, when the odds of that happening are...

 

0.57 (chance to crit with Sigurd's Skill) * 0.70 (chances of not activating Big Guard) * 0.57 (chance to crit with Sigurd's Skill) * 0.70 equals (chances of not activating Big Guard)...16%. 

It was such a low chance of happening, that it was all that more surprising when it actually did.

Edited February 4, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[Inference]

12 hours ago, General Horace said:

Sigurd doesn't need the brave sword until the end of chapter 5, his offence is more than fine with just silver.  It's kinda like this, say Sigurd is a 10/10 unit with or without the brave sword (he is), and Noish is a 4 without it, but a 7 with it.  It's always more useful to have a 10 and a 7 than a 10 and a 4.  Sigurd doesn't need the hero sword to kill any boss in gen 1 (except maybe Langbart, I forget) unlike Celice who needs it to kill the tougher gen 2 bosses, so it's not a huge loss for him.  Plus Sigurd can build kills on another weapon like the light/thunder sword or something while Noish/Beowulf/whoever get kills on the hero sword that they wouldn't get with another weapon.

The problem with letting other units carry the Brave Sword is that none of them are seeing as many engagements as Sigurd is, so the Brave Sword really isn't being used well at all by anyone other than him. You can clear out groups with Sigurd and not ever have to heal, while someone like Arya can take out maybe two enemies before needing backup in the form of healing or meatshields and Noish probably still can't one-round bulkier enemies with it unless Accost activates, so he may as well not have it either.

Just because the best units don't strictly need it doesn't mean that other units suddenly use it better. Having that Brave Sword just puts them on an entirely different level of self-sufficiency, since they almost never have to worry about counterattacks, require far less healing, and don't need any support to kill a boss. I can't see who would object to that over giving it to a 6-move unit with terrible defensive parameters.

In other words, yes, it really does make a difference if the Lords use a better weapon than Silver, since the added KO reliability eases pressure off of the entire team. This isn't about efficiency at all, it's just an objective fact that the best characters in the game are going to use one of the best weapons in the game better than units who struggle with combat to begin with. Brave Sword doesn't magically solve a mediocre unit's problems, but it does wonders for castle-seizing units!

Edited February 4, 2017 by Inference

[General Horace]

I'm not suggesting giving the brave sword to Ayra or anything (unless she's killing the orgahill pirates or something), giving the brave sword to units that get kills with it isn't a bad thing.  Later in the generation Noish and Beowulf have similar stats to Sigurd (Noish will need the pursuit ring, but if he's a dad [very likely] he's going to have it anyway) and they have no problems killing stuff.  It's objectively better later on in the game to have critical on the light sword and hero sword than just the hero sword, especially considering how much better the light sword becomes once it gains critical.  Unless you're playing LTC (in which Sigurd absolutely has the Hero Sword in chapter 4/5) having to wait a turn killing a castle boss if you don't get a critblick with the Silver Sword really isn't a huge deal.

[qwernst]

So about those Gen 2 kids and their substitutes....

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

On 30.12.2016 at 8:13 PM, Eleanor Hume said:

My fixed votes:

Ayra: from 9 to 8.5

Jamke: still 8.5

Holyn: from 8.5 to 7.5

Beowulf: from 7 to 5.5

Lewyn: from 9 to 8.5

Tiltyu: still 8

Would like to change a few of my votes again:

Ayra: from 8.5 to 8

Jamke:        ^

Holyn: from 7.5 to 7

Beowulf: from 5.5 to 4.5. He joins later than Alec and Noish and isn't better than them, so.

Lewyn: from 8.5 to 7.5. His performance before he gets Forseti isn't too epic without pursuit.

Tiltyu: from 8 to 6.5. She's still pretty good - honestly even better than Lewyn with the right skill setup before he gets Forseti - but she has a rough start for joining so late with low level.

 

[OliKad]

Sorry Eleanor, but I don't feel like changing votes for Gen 1 anymore, since we're done with it and all that :P

----------

Anyway, how would you like me to handle Gen 2 votes? I know we have discussed this before, but I just want to heat your voices once more on this matter ;)
Wow, that sounded way too formal :P

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Oh, ok.

Just thought you put all the votes in a table (excel or access), and it wouldn't be a problem to change them, but it's fine. Not that it really makes a huge difference anymore.

[Valkama]

I'd prefer if subs were a separate rating from the non-subs although you could maybe post them both in the same update. As for the kids, most of them don't significantly change in use between fathers unless you really screwed up your pairings so I'd say it's fine to have no special conditions and just rate them on general use.

Edited February 6, 2017 by Valkama

[Inference]

I like the idea of rating in groups just to move the list along. It takes a while to move off of the discussion of one unit, so I'd rather us not be stuck on someone irrelevent like Asaello for a week.

Ideally, I would like a batch discussion of each pair of Gen 2 units alongside their substitutes, giving us a group of four units to discuss, each with their own individual rating.

[Yojinbo]

+1 for rating Kids and their respective subs in groups!

[FionordeQuester]

Btw, my quick rating for Hannibal...

...

He stinks.  I cannot think of a single time where I have ever found him useful for anything, besides raising the EXP Rank.. Not even in my very first playthrough have I ever found a use for him.  And that was the SAME playthrough in which I tried to make ARDAN viable!  I threw the Leg Ring + Pursuit Ring + Speed Ring + Knight Ring on him, and wham; I got myself a pretty decent unit.  That was a horrible waste of resources, obviously...but at least he was able to do something.  He was great for taking on DracoKnights in Chapter 5, if nothing else.

Hannibal, on the other hand...I'm not sure even that would save him.  I mean, he'd do decent DPS...but "decent DPS" is almost an insult when compared to most other Gen 2 units.  Aside from that, he's got nothing else.  Even his defense is kind of garbage when you consider how much we hammered Altenna for her lack of RES.

1/10.  I think I changed Ardan's rating from a 2/10 to a 1/10, thinking that there wouldn't be anyone worse coming along...but now I regret that decision >_< 

Edited February 7, 2017 by FionordeQuester

[OliKad]

Hey guys, I'm apparently still alive! xD
As you can see, I'm not the most motivated when it comes ti update stuff, but oh well, I hope you're not too mad at me ;)

So, before I talk about what's next, I'll just say that...    wow...
Hannibal managed to be the worst unit in the game, with an ABSOLUTELY DISGUSTING rating of 1.66/10 after 16 votes. Just... wow. O_O

*ahem* Anyways, how should we handle this? What I decided to do is that I will just list every child character of a mother and their substitutes in one, jam-packed day, even if it will make for some very long posts, because I think it's about time we finish this thread, huh?
If some of you disagrees about this, don't be shy to say it, i'm not a dictator! :P

So yeah, I also won't bother listing their stats anymore, because it would be way too long, so instead i'll just say that the Fire Emblem wiki will be your best friend! ^^

But now, let's debate about our first group of kids, the ones that will always be sword-wielding twins and start at our lord's side: Lakche, Ulster, Robbleban and Radney! :D

[Vaximillian]

Larcei, Ulster, Creidne and Dalvin, you mean? :P

I only did the game once and made Ayra hook up with Holyn-Chulainn. Both kids eventually rocked brave swords and were awesome with them. Larcei was absolutely unhittable and ridiculously blessed for me, capping Str, Skl and Spd by lv. 22:

Even though PEMN, I still continue being biased as all fuck and rate her 8 / 10 because I can.

Ulster is a bit sturdier than his sister in exchange for lower Skl and Spd caps. He's basically Holyn-Chulainn with Astra, which makes him much better than his dad. 7 / 10, 'cause yeah, bias, and he got seriously Str-screwed, hogging one of my power rings.

[OliKad]

10 minutes ago, Vaximillian said:

Larcei, Ulster, Creidne and Dalvin, you mean? :P

STOP

[ZemZem]

Larcei/Lakche: She's amazing if she can manage to get to things to kill. Her skills are overkill (especially if she has Noish or Jamke for a dad) and her stats are even moreso. Basically an uber Ayra. But again, she's not managing to keep up with the horses. And similar to Ayra, she doesn't have too many opportunities to be useful, but she does have a couple. 3.5/10

Ulster/Skasaher: If he could use axes, too, he'd be pretty damn cool (he already is pretty bro). But that won't help his performance. He's basically the same as his sister, but he has a tougher time getting things passed down to him. 3/10

Radney/Badney/Creidne: A shitty Larcei that doesn't even promote to swordmaster. First female hero when promoted, I guess? Wew. Still pretty bad. 2/10

Roddlevan/RODDLEBAD/Dalvin: THE MAN HIMSELF. THE ONE. THE ONLY. RODDLEBAD! ...He's garbage. Not even his conversation with Tristan in Chapter 7 helps him out. How can someone be so shit? Shittier Ulster in every way possible, and Ulster already has his problems. 2/10

Edited February 8, 2017 by Zeems

[CappnRob]

Larcei and Ulster are basically unscrewable, as they'll always be at LEAST as good as Ayra (Ulster maybe slightly less so), and their dads can allow them to fulfill a variety of roles. Lex makes them level fast and hold the line easier, plus gives them early game tankiness (held back by a low def cap) and some huuuge HP buffs (though huge HP buffs are a given for any dad with holy blood). Finn gives Prayer, Holyn gives Moonlight Sword, Dew gives Solar Sword and all three give well rounded growths. Noish gives critical hits, Jamuka lets Ulster overcome his class drawbacks upon promotion... you can't go wrong with these kids. Now G2 is more horse-heavy than G1 was, but sort of blossoms into it slower as much of your initial army is foot based and you expand your cavalry gradually as opposed to having your army be 90% cavalry from the start, and this does let the twins keep up a bit better. Ultimately, though, they tend to be jacks of all trades in the context of all of G2, due to their lack of holy weapons or special niches. Solid swordfighters with a lot of strong father potential, but nothing truly amazing. I give them both a 7/10.

 

Creidne and Dalvin though.... ech. These guys are less impressive than AYRA, in a generation far more difficult than Ayra's. Creidne only has pursuit, and Dalvin has Ambush alongside Pursuit. Their growths are alright, nothing special, but they have no holy blood buffs to anything as well. They BOTH promote into Forrests to top it all off, so Creidne can't even get continue as a skill. This does make them both prime hero sword candidates, but the 2 you have in G2 are precious resources all the same. 5/10 for them both.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I'm still going to rate the children after going for the optimal pairings.

As for Ayra it's Dew to me:

Quote

Larcei + Ulster

Join early which is great. Have default astra and nihil and more awesome skills. It's almost impossible to screw them unless you paired Ayra with a magic user. Their best potential dads are Dew and Holyn, because sun / luna are really great (especially sun) and Ulster inherits swords. Lex is also great because of paragon and passing strength and defense to them. However they normally don't tend to fall behind so they don't need the exp. boost. With their skills they're definitely more usable than Seliph in the beginning which bears the danger that they'll eat lots of potential kills for Seliph. It happened to me in my first run that they killed pretty much everything in chapter 6 because of astra so that Seliph could get like only one level and fell totally behind after that and it became a pain to train him. They're definitely the best of your starting team behind Oifey and will become decent overall during the entire game but outclassed by some mounties and Seliph when he's promoted. I find Larcei a little bit better because of her class and the resulting higher speed and evasion.

Larcei: 7

Ulster: 6.5

Edited February 12, 2017 by Magilou