CappnRob Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Levin is certainly statistically better than Cuan or Ethlyn but for pure utility you can't beat the happy couple easily. Ethlyn is a healer with long range, Cuan does huge burst damage and is essentially G1's true tank until Lex promotes, and you have the both of them for a very long time. Levin has great stats and is a fantastic unit but his movement range holds him back a little bit. That said he kind of does outshine Cuan in terms of damage, he can proc Continue a lot more reliably and has crits to boot, does magic damage and its the lightest magic at that. Forsetti not only outclasses the Gae Bolg but is around a good bit longer as well, too. Levin is also essential in saving those villages in Chapter 2 as well, so he's certainly a high tier unit, at least imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inference Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 7 hours ago, 1japanfan said: Meh. I am not convinced. I think Lewyn is better than both Quan and Ethlyn. You forgot to muster a rebuttal for the fact that Forseti is available for roughly one chapter in Gen 1 where it isn't even needed. Sigurd and his entourage have no incentive at all to slow down and wait for Lewyn to do his stuff. If you can't reach combat in this game, you're not actually doing anything useful. In retrospect, I should have lowered Lewyn's score. I remembered him being much better in previous playthroughs, but when I booted up the game last week, I found out that there were never really any opportunities for him to fight. The only unit in this game who can really make use of Forseti is Arthur, and in Gen 2, there is definitely a high density of powerful 1-2 range units to warrant a trump card like Forseti. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 4 hours ago, Inference said: You forgot to muster a rebuttal for the fact that Forseti is available for roughly one chapter in Gen 1 where it isn't even needed. Sigurd and his entourage have no incentive at all to slow down and wait for Lewyn to do his stuff. If you can't reach combat in this game, you're not actually doing anything useful. *snip* I have to say though, despite Holsety being OP, Lewyn does just fine with an Elwind, and easily ORKOs people. At least, for me that is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Besides the massive damage increase (which isn't relevant unless it's against a boss), it does increase his chances of proccing Continue and Critical. Â Other than that, he does just fine with Elwind for the most part. Â If you're sticking a Pursuit Ring onto him for inheritance purposes, then Holsety will have very niche use for Levin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 In my most recent playthrough I found myself using Levin for offing Lamia and Swanchika dude. And some bandits in ch2 I suppose. Goes to show how useful he really is, imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Whilst Levin is able to nuke stuff with Holsety, he isn't really necessary to kill said bosses. His early game is pretty limited and Sigurd can still manage to eliminate them too. No point jumping 20 feet over a 10 foot wall! One could say that LTC is an unfair measure for Levin, but when you start giving him the luxury of more turns to get into position, you might as well give Ardan enemy reinforcements to grind on! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkama Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Â 2 hours ago, Shin said: One could say that LTC is an unfair measure for Levin, but when you start giving him the luxury of more turns to get into position, you might as well give Ardan enemy reinforcements to grind on! LTC is unfair for Levin since he can't even pick up Forseti. I think there should be some slack for picking up items that you have no reason not to pick up other than it costing turns like Lex's hero axe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CappnRob Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 2 hours ago, Shin said: Whilst Levin is able to nuke stuff with Holsety, he isn't really necessary to kill said bosses. His early game is pretty limited and Sigurd can still manage to eliminate them too. No point jumping 20 feet over a 10 foot wall! One could say that LTC is an unfair measure for Levin, but when you start giving him the luxury of more turns to get into position, you might as well give Ardan enemy reinforcements to grind on! Except Levin can in fact actually win fights without taking all day and Arden can't? That's a slippery slope argument. Yeah if you're playing casually you can let Arden catch up and do whatever but who actually wants to do that? Levin may not reach the front line as fast as the mounted units but at least once he's there he can hold his own very well. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Holsety has one downside though: it can increase Levin's Spd to a point where enemy units will refuse to attack him altogether. If you park him on a forest, a village or a mountain tile enemy unit may legit stop considering him a viable target which can actually hurt his enemy phase. Not a very common occurance but it can certainly happen and it's pretty bad when it does happen. Also, we should move on to rating substitute units next imo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 45 minutes ago, CappnRob said: Except Levin can in fact actually win fights without taking all day and Arden can't? That's a slippery slope argument. Arden with a pursuit ring and hero lance will do just fine, friendo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, CappnRob said: Yeah if you're playing casually you can let Arden catch up and do whatever but who actually wants to do that? was about to raise hand, but decides not to. 17 minutes ago, Excellen Browning said: Arden with a pursuit ring and hero lance will do just fine, friendo. Arden can't use lances till he promotes though, and I'm pretty sure most don't bother to promote him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Excellen Browning Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 Fine then give him the hero sword Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 1 hour ago, Excellen Browning said: Fine then give him the hero sword nah, the mounts, such as Noish, would do better with it. Or Ayra and Holyn. They both ORKO everyone with it so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CappnRob Posted February 2, 2017 Share Posted February 2, 2017 The Hero sword doesn't come until Chapter 3 and you have to get it off Ayra and basically my point is that there's a difference between a character being inefficient for LTC and being inefficient even by casual standards. All Levin needs to do to be good is to reach the damn fight and its more than easy enough to play FE4 that way. And I say this as someone who boss grinds Arden on Gondolf for the yucks of it. Hell even doing that doesn't do him much favors except let him win arena fights, which I guess is always worth a laugh. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shin Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 17 hours ago, CappnRob said: Except Levin can in fact actually win fights without taking all day and Arden can't? That's a slippery slope argument. Yeah if you're playing casually you can let Arden catch up and do whatever but who actually wants to do that? Levin may not reach the front line as fast as the mounted units but at least once he's there he can hold his own very well. That was precisely my point. If you're rating units overall, you need to take into account that Levin isn't mounted and will generally not always be on the frontline. He may be a nuke, but unless this thread had very specific criteria on how the game was played, his lack of mobility compared to mounts is the reason he scores lower than Cuan and Ethlin. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CappnRob Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Except I agreed with Levin being lower than Cuan and Ethlyn? I just think its unfair to bunch him up with Arden because while not as useful as Level 1 Duke Knight out the gate or a mounted healer, Levin is still lightyears ahead of useful over freakin' Arden. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Can we all agree that the current discussion is fruitless and move on to rating subs / children? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flee Fleet! Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 32 minutes ago, CappnRob said: Except I agreed with Levin being lower than Cuan and Ethlyn? I just think its unfair to bunch him up with Arden because while not as useful as Level 1 Duke Knight out the gate or a mounted healer, Levin is still lightyears ahead of useful over freakin' Arden. Let's just say that if we only consider foot units, or don't consider mobility and which characters will likely get into the frontline, then obviously Levin would probably second or third to Sigurd (actually in general most of the footies like Ayra and Holyn would be higher than units like the Chalpy Knights, Cuan e.t.c. if this was the case). Then again, I'm just stating my opinion, so... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Inference Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 We don't have stop discussing the merits of high movement in this game, since it's extremely important and something everyone should understand by now. I would, however, like to see some units a little more interesting for rating/discussion like Fee or Ced. I have a pretty well-informed opinion on the both of them now. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 28 minutes ago, Flee Fleet! said: actually in general most of the footies like Ayra and Holyn would be higher than units like the Chalpy Knights, Cuan e.t.c. if this was the case Aira is still the squishiest of the squishy and gets like 2HKO'd by shit left while failing to ORKO anything without an Astra proc [unpromoted]. Unpromoted Aira is legit not a good frontliner for the most part - Azel has more consistent offense than her, for example, because he hits res and can safely attack from 2 range. Cuan with his HP, defense, raw offense, 2 range options, access to the Hero lance, support with Ethlin and chances to proc Continue would still be better on the frontline than Aira, even if we didn't regard mobility at all. People seriously oversell Aira's offense and underrate how poor her defenses are. Unpromoted Holyn is also only insignificantly more consistent than Aira is because his defensive specs aren't trash. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darrman Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 tries to check my previous ratings... Turns out the links in the OP got broken and just lead to the forum home page instead of the actual posts. How did we even get talking about Levin and Cuan and Aira anyway? Holsety is ridiculous but he lacks Pursuit; 2HKOs everything and will kill with Continue and is also mounted; can hit hard with Astra overkill but as durable as tissue paper. I mean isn't it time we go and tear into how Aira's kids get left in the dust by rescue-skipping? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CappnRob Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Ayra has plenty of time to shine in the second half of chapter 1 against the axeman brigades, hell she's one of the only people who can trudge through the Spirit Forest with any sort of efficiency too. Given she has Awareness this makes her the ideal Jamuka bait for luring him to Aideen as well (or you could just wait for them to come out of the forest on their own pft). Between that and the Chapter 1 arena she should have a few solid level ups to boost her fighting power. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Valkama Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Ayra is very strong in Chapter 1 and can do well in the later part of chapter 2 but that's really all she has. So many other units are out preforming her in the mid to late game. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Refa Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 Awareness is garbage against Jamka because it doesn't negate anything except Critical. Â He can still very easily kill Ayra. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yojinbo Posted February 3, 2017 Share Posted February 3, 2017 *Axe Fighters won't attack Aira in the spirit forest because she has too much avoid. They'll just move next to her and block the way. That's something unique in FE4 in that you can actually have stats that are too good. *Unarmed Aira is a pretty decent Jamka bait indeed. Being immune to criticals and having high avoid is worth a lot. *I wouldn't say that Aira does particularly well in the second half of Ch.2 ... she can like help out a bit but she won't kill anything except mages without an Astra proc and she gets 2HKOd by everything. Road tiles also means she gets hits by a lot of shit, including those stupid ballistas. * She's legitimately good in Ch.1 though if you recruit her way over to the west right on turn 5. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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