What's Considered Ban Worthy? (Smash/FGC)

[Jedi]

This isn't just about smash but it is a primary topic. Figured it could lead to some discussion.

Edited December 5, 2016 by Jedi

[The DanMan]

Though admittedly broad, I believe that something should be considered ban-worthy if it gives an unfair advantage or is unpredictable. Stages with hazards of any kind aren't used competitively, and Meta Knight (and arguably pre-patch Bayonetta) were simply busted and dominated the meta.

[Elieson]

Ban worthy?

Lylat physics. That's all

[Augestein]

They pretty much covered when something needs to be banned. When it over centralizes the game. If it's so good that there's no other way to counter it outside of doing it, there's a huge problem. For Smash though, I honestly can't really take smash seriously enough to really worry too much about bans outside of things being horrendously imbalanced like Brawl.

[Lord Raven]

^ In Pokemon it's also "if you need this specific counter to beat this specific thing then it overcentralizes and messes up the metagame. It was kind of interesting because people have asked why Blissey isn't banned since she's the reason why Fighting moves became so popular, and it's because without her special attackers would fuck up the metagame hard.

I honestly haven't watched the video since I'm more interested right now in relaxing rather than learning, but I imagine it's inspired by this particular chapter of sirlin's book. In summary;

A ban must be enforceable, discrete, and warranted.

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know about Smash, but as far as Pokemon goes, ban-worthy would fall under "being so good relative to the metagame that more skillful play is rendered practically irrelevant". That said, being broken isn't the only reason for bans in Pokemon - something might get banned for being uncompetitive (See: Swagplay, Double Team, etc.).

Edited December 5, 2016 by Levant Mir Celestia

[Shadow Mir]

I don't know about Smash, but as far as Pokemon goes, ban-worthy would fall under "being so good relative to the metagame that more skillful play is rendered practically irrelevant". Being overcentralizing would also be banworthy as well.

[Augestein]

^ In Pokemon it's also "if you need this specific counter to beat this specific thing then it overcentralizes and messes up the metagame. It was kind of interesting because people have asked why Blissey isn't banned since she's the reason why Fighting moves became so popular, and it's because without her special attackers would fuck up the metagame hard.

I honestly haven't watched the video since I'm more interested right now in relaxing rather than learning, but I imagine it's inspired by this particular chapter of sirlin's book. In summary;

Yeah, that's true too. I remember years back Stealth Rock was in that range for some people.