Ice Dragon Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 hours ago, DehNutCase said: What I meant is: it is harder for a unit without good reach to do things other than setting up def ploy on player phase. Est needs to not be touched in order to survive, meaning the closest she can be to the target she's ploying is one square between the two of them (two squares for ranged), what this means is that, after the debuff lands, she'll have a hard time finding things to do---horses have access to their good +1 move reposition, and ranged units have one more range to find someone to hit. Let's say she was just setting up for her team, meaning she isn't going to hit the thing she ployed... well then, if the thing she wants to hit was next to the thing she ployed, that is, 3 squares away (assuming you ploy'd a ranged target, meaning the target is 2 squares away), how's Est going to reach it? If all you needed was a buff-bot, sure, that turn didn't matter much, but it's still a consistent loss to unit-turns to have someone with low mobility activating positioning dependent debuffs. Having a flying movement type means you have more freedom in your positioning to get the opponent to stand in range. Furthermore, having a flying movement type means there is no terrain preventing another unit from Repositioning your attacker forward. Furthermore on top of that, Brave attackers with extremely high Atk have less use for their B slot, giving them the luxury of running positioning skills like Hit and Run or Drag Back to retreat after combat or Flier Formation to more easily reach opponents. Fliers have superior mobility getting to and from opponents due to the fact that they are not affected by water or trees. 8 hours ago, DehNutCase said: 3, ...So? You don't run a def ploy mage/cav/archer and def ploy est, you run def ploy mage and send est to the skill fodder bin. What the fuck does this have anything to do with the argument? You generally shouldn't run more than one Def Ploy unit in your team because a second Def Ploy is less effective than adding a buff skill. Because of this and the other points, you can't expect every enemy you fight to have -5 Def, which is what we're arguing. You can't assume Def Ploy is active when rating all characters because you can't assume you even have Def Ploy on your team unless the character you are rating has Def Ploy. You can't assume that you will always have a unit with above-average Res on your team, but you can always assume that you will have several units with Hone Atk and/or Hone Spd (or a stronger variant) on your team. This point had nothing to do with Est. 8 hours ago, DehNutCase said: Although I'm not sure how that relates to Est being good with Def Ploy for some reason? It's not like she sets it up easier than other carriers, 2 move melee is only better than 1 move melee when it comes to actually doing things after triggering Def Ploy, 2 move ranged, 3 move melee, and 3 move ranged all do better. Because she flies. Obstructions are a part of every map, and 3-move melee only beats flying melee in reach when there is nothing in the way. AI manipulation is also a thing, which means perfect play allows you to force enemy units to stop on squares in range. Reach matters more when sniping opponents, but not when just killing enemies as they approach. 1 hour ago, Rezzy said: For Cavs and Fliers, I've found the +6/+6 for the C slot is better than anything else another C skill can provide. For Infantry, there's more flexibility, but it seems the tiers are only accounting for 1v1 match-ups and don't take team synergy into account. The tier list explicitly says they aren't taking into account the movement-type buffs because you can't always assume you have another unit of that movement type to provide those buffs. That's why the secondary tier lists exist underneath the big chart. 1 hour ago, Rezzy said: Until we get someone else with Def Ploy, I'm not sure if we can assume there's that many sources floating around. It's like in Pokemon, when Chansey got Wish like back in Gen III, and never since, but sets were still suggesting movesets with Wish on them as late as Gen VI. There's rare accessibility, then there's borderline impossible. The tier list explicitly says that they exclude accessibility of skills in its tier lists because they are ranking the characters' maximum potential. Their free-to-play tier list exists that takes accessibility into account. Smogon's tier lists do the exact same thing and exclude accessibility because their metagame is based on a game simulator where all players have 100% accessibility to anything that was available to the game at any point for the purposes of fairness. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 49 minutes ago, KongDude said: Is Res+ better for her? I think I'm okay with 39 Def. Dual 36 defenses yo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
property of nuvelle Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 4 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Dual 36 defenses yo. True. But I still like the current nature more so I'll deal with it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 minute ago, KongDude said: True. But I still like the current nature more so I'll deal with it. There's nothing wrong with +Def, ofc. But you definitely don't want -HP. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ice Dragon Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: There's nothing wrong with +Def, ofc. But you definitely don't want -HP. HP is irrelevant when you take no damage from anything. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
property of nuvelle Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 hour ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: There's nothing wrong with +Def, ofc. But you definitely don't want -HP. The only time I'll get another 5* Sheena is if I accidentally pull her again so this one will work fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said: HP is irrelevant when you take no damage from anything. It's relatively harmless on a full armor team, yeah. 3 minutes ago, KongDude said: The only time I'll get another 5* Sheena is if I accidentally pull her again so this one will work fine. 4* Sheena! Do you even have DC fodder? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
property of nuvelle Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 57 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: 4* Sheena! Do you even have DC fodder? Eh, I don't want to train a 4* Sheena. Did that in the past and had a bad time. Never pulled Hector before. I probably won't give it to her though if I ever pull a bad Hector though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Just now, KongDude said: Eh, I don't want to train a 4* Sheena. Did that in the past and had a bad time. Never pulled Hector before. I probably won't give it to her though if I ever pull a bad Hector though. Huh... She is pretty painful to use without DC, though with Bonfire and QR she can handle 1-range stuff just fine. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Huh... She is pretty painful to use without DC, though with Bonfire and QR she can handle 1-range stuff just fine. Every Armor is painful to use without DC. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 Just now, Rezzy said: Every Armor is painful to use without DC. Not BK hyuck hyuck hyuck I run Brave Lance Effie, and it's not that painful. Even less so if you have Armor March (which I don't...). Imagine it's the same for like, Brave Axe Amelia and maybe Wo Dao Draug. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 It finally happened! I finally managed to pull another Soren! 4* and +Atk/-Def!!! The exact bane I’ve been hoping for! This is what I’ve been sitting on those feathers for the past few days. Look at this guy! Spoiler Dat defense. my first Soren was +atk/-res, and so could not survive the average Reinhardt with my favorite build, but with a buff this guy can now! Hooray! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
property of nuvelle Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) @DarkLordIvy Are you the person with that green meme team? I spent like 30 dueling crest to find it. Didn't though... Edited October 1, 2017 by KongDude I am very rude :( Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) Galeforce strikes again. Edited October 1, 2017 by DarkLordIvy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 8 hours ago, Xenomata said: Know what we need? A Ranged, Cavalry, Veteran Dancer unit. So how about a Niime riding a steed she enchanted so that it can dance as she stands on its back doing backflips between castings of Apocalypse? That little thought exercise made realize FE is really lacking in old ladies. Old men, no. Old ladies, yes, Niime is our only one. Can the next FE have the MC's nanny playable? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 minute ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said: Not BK hyuck hyuck hyuck I run Brave Lance Effie, and it's not that painful. Even less so if you have Armor March (which I don't...). Imagine it's the same for like, Brave Axe Amelia and maybe Wo Dao Draug. The Burger King gets DC by default, so he doesn't count. I find Armor March is nice, but not the game changer people thought it would be, and it keeps you from running Hone/Fort Armor. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 minute ago, KongDude said: @DarkLordIvy Are you the person with that green meme team? I spent like 30 dueling crest to find it. Didn't though... If this is the team you were thinking of then probably: Spoiler I didn’t have them set as my defense team for almost two weeks after I forgot to switch it back... I hope you weren’t trying during that stretch. ónò They are back though! And Nino has been temporary replaced by Inigo for the next couple of weeks Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xenomata Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 2 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: That little thought exercise made realize FE is really lacking in old ladies. Old men, no. Old ladies, yes, Niime is our only one. Can the next FE have the MC's nanny playable? If FE becomes anymore anime than it already is, then we're only a few tutorials and kingdom invasions away from getting a badass grandma. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JSND Alter Dragon Boner Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 7 minutes ago, Interdimensional Observer said: So how about a Niime riding a steed she enchanted so that it can dance as she stands on its back doing backflips between castings of Apocalypse? That little thought exercise made realize FE is really lacking in old ladies. Old men, no. Old ladies, yes, Niime is our only one. Can the next FE have the MC's nanny playable? They were like "HOW DO WE TOP NIIME BECAUSE SHES BROKEN", run out of idea, and scrap the idea altogether. Thats my headcanon Seriously FE6 Niime was busted @SatsumaFSoysoy plz the secret to Armor Grinding is Quick Riposte Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
property of nuvelle Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 58 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said: If this is the team you were thinking of then probably: Reveal hidden contents I didn’t have them set as my defense team for almost two weeks after I forgot to switch it back... I hope you weren’t trying during that stretch. ónò They are back though! And Nino has been temporary replaced by Inigo for the next couple of weeks Yeah I think it's that one. I tried finding it when you first posted it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 3 minutes ago, KongDude said: Yeah I think it's that one. I tried finding it when you first posted it. Ah well here’s your second chance if you’re feeling lucky. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 1 minute ago, JSND Alter Dragon Boner said: @SatsumaFSoysoy plz the secret to Armor Grinding is Quick Riposte no 7 minutes ago, Rezzy said: The Burger King gets DC by default, so he doesn't count. I find Armor March is nice, but not the game changer people thought it would be, and it keeps you from running Hone/Fort Armor. Yes, it was a joke. You just need one person with Armor March, and even the unit that has it can benefit from it, so it's not a big deal to lose one stack of Ward Armor in exchange for 2-move Brave Effie or something like that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interdimensional Observer Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Xenomata said: If FE becomes anymore anime than it already is, then we're only a few tutorials and kingdom invasions away from getting a badass grandma. Well besides Niime, we did get one in lore, sorta. From the Leonster's Fall text, this describes Leif's paternal grandmother Queen Alfiona: "The queen was dressed for battle; it was said that, in her youth, she fought side-by-side with the King, just like Ethlin. Actually, many of the old generals gathered there had seen the queen like that countless times. Grasping the queen’s extraordinary determination from that, the gathered generals bended to her will." Why did she do this? "The queen, who was about to sink into dark thoughts (when she learned her husband had died in battle), was brought back to reality by the servant’s voice. If she didn’t pull herself together, she would end up unable to protect even the prince (Leif) Cuan had left. Even if she had to become a shield, she would protect that heir. Cheered up by those thoughts, the queen stood up." Yeah, this queen we don't even get a picture of sounds fairly awesome. Willing to sacrifice herself and prematurely join her husband, son, and his wife, just to secure the future of Leonster in her grandson. Wouldn't mind giving her form in Heroes. Edited October 1, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarkLordIvy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 The person just below me in the arena assault rankings has a rather... interesting Titania build. Spoiler Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rezzy Posted October 1, 2017 Share Posted October 1, 2017 (edited) I hoping we see some sort of Calendar for October tonight. I wonder if they're going to keep doing Gauntlets as is, or if they'll change the multiplier after last time. 4 minutes ago, DarkLordIvy said: The person just below me in the arena assault rankings has a rather... interesting Titania build. Reveal hidden contents Fantastic Build, maybe I should take some pointers for my Titania. It's always fun to see Pass, and Triangle Adept with the Emerald Axe, just as back-up, in case your three year old unequips your weapon or something. I'm a bit disappointed that she's running Hone Cavalry, when she could have had Axe Exp 3 or something. Edited October 1, 2017 by Rezzy Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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