Heroes needs to be made easier.

[Anacybele]

Before people go doing it, don't tell me "git gud" or "summon moar" or "you suck" or anything spammy like that. Maybe I'm not the best player, but it doesn't mean that there aren't legit issues with this game's difficulty.

I'm even already seeing people complain that Narcian's map is too hard, for example. I never intended to do it since I don't care about FE6 characters or Elibe characters in general (barring Sain and Fiora), but this is just one example. The best reward you can get is a three star Narcian? That's pretty pathetic for how hard this map seems to be. And I also see people say that the enemy Narcian is four star. That's pretty much a ripoff.

Now other issues I have with the game:

- Maps almost always give the enemy a huge advantage and put you at a disadvantage

- Exp gain suddenly gets really slow at around lv. 20. Sometimes your units don't get exp at all. I'm findiing it really hard to level anyone up at that point because if I try higher level maps, they just get killed, but if I try lower level ones, they don't get anymore exp or very little at all, making the process extremely long and tedious.

- Good units are too rare. I've done maybe 25 summons? Nearly all of them have been lowly three star units and repeat units. A few were four star. None were five star. I didn't re-roll in the beginning and I do blame myself for that because I simply didn't think of it. But not everyone can just go throwing more money at the game to keep trying. Which brings me to my next point.

- Orbs need to be a bit easier to get. I get that IS wants to earn money and that's fine. But Orbs and feathers are both pretty slow to earn and I've seen reviews agreeing with this.

- Get rid of maps that have five or more enemy units on them or allow us to have five or more units on our own teams. This is just ridiculously stupid and always puts the player at a big disadvantage.

- Some units could probably be nerfed too. For example, not even my high attack units can do much damage to manaketes. Frederick couldn't do ANY once and he was at a similar level.

Now, I won't say that there aren't moments where I could've been thinking my moves through better. I definitely need to make more use of Sharena's Rally Attack and I need to not mess up and fail to get a unit to attack when I'm trying to attack or fail to put them in the right square or whatever. I admit I've made some of my own dumb mistakes and that's on me. I intend to improve on that. But I still think the game has some issues of its own that need addressing. The gameplay in general is pretty great and the graphics and art are generally pretty nice, but still.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[Dragoncat]

I agree orbs need to be easier to get...but you do know you can go back and switch around to prepare when you use the training tower?

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

I agree orbs need to be easier to get...but you do know you can go back and switch around to prepare when you use the training tower?

What do you mean switch around? Switch around what?

[Magical Glace]

The game definitely needs some balancing fixes.  Overall the maps themselves are well designed, it's just a lot of quality of life improvments are needed, repositioning, lower feather costs, a less overbearing stamina system, etc.

I don't think making it easier is really the answer, just fixing the less accessible aspects.

[Anacybele]

Yeah, I suppose that's fair enough for the moment, Glac. I'd have to see how things are after such changes though.

[Thalyon]

I would be happy if didn't lose stamine when losing a fight

 

[HK Motendra]

Regarding the EXP, you do know you can renovate your castle, which in turn, increases how much EXP you gain, right? 'Course, this does cost orbs to do, but when done, grinding becomes MUCH faster

[Anacybele]

Just now, Motendra said:

Regarding the EXP, you do know you can renovate your castle, which in turn, increases how much EXP you gain, right? 'Course, this does cost orbs to do, but when done, grinding becomes MUCH faster

Yes, I've upgraded twice...

[Raven]

You post a few valid points, however you also need to realise this is a game for mobile devices that in turn need to create a profit for Nintendo. Some of us will get lucky and end up pulling 5 or so 5* units using nothing but the free orbs given through play, but there will be many people unsatisfied with their pulls (such as yourself) and will either be forced to pay Nintendo for more orbs and a chance at better units, or deal with the problem at hand and spam the training tower.

If you didn't yet know, upgrading the castle to gain 100% EXP (so 2x more exp than normal) is the most important thing you can do with regards to training units and should be done ASAP. When it comes to actually training the units, you must take on a tower level where enemies are no more than 5 levels above your own party average, or you will have a tough time without some hardcore AI abuse. Even then, the fights are not (and shouldn't be) a cakewalk, and using the weapons triangle to your full advantage coupled with the poor game AI should become first nature. Pitting yourself against lower-leveled enemies will be too easy and you'll gain less experience as a result.

It takes a long time to raise units to their full potential, but as I said, this is a mobile game and Nintendo wants it to last many months for the average player, if not years. I say we should enjoy what we can and just keep raising your units whenever possible. Remember that stamina goes from 0 to 50 in 4 hours and 10 minutes, so coming back every so often to use the stamina and stopping it from overflowing can make a huge difference. And again: Upgrading castle is of the utmost importance, if you have not already done so.

 

With regards to some of your other points:

Some maps are equal, whilst some do give the enemy the advantage. Yet again, I'd argue that being able to move your units first just gives you that much more of a chance to manipulate the enemy AI to your advantage, regardless of map.

Good units are indeed rare. Some people have been extremely unlucky and have pulled no 5* units yet. Just take solace in the fact that the chance of getting a 5* unit from a pack will raise by 0.5% for every 5 x 4* or lower unit you pull in a row, until you get a 5* unit. Then it will reset to the base 6%. So keep pulling from the same pack (after you've fully upgraded your castle), you'll eventually get your 5*.

Orbs: I couldn't agree more. I haven't pulled any characters for over 2 days now, and I won't get a chance until tomorrow after they give 2 more since I'm sitting on 18 orbs as of today. They said they will release new story mode content every month or so, but I'm already desperate for alternative methods for obtaining orbs at a reasonable rate, without pouring my bank account into the game.

5 enemy units are a bit more tricky, but as far as I'm aware, their levels are lower on average so it shouldn't actually be that much more difficult if you play carefully. Being outnumbered is something us FE vets should be able to handle without much hesitation.

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Raven

[Water Mage]

They're not fixing the orb system to make orbs easier to get, otherwise there would be no point in buying them at all. 

And the maps, even those with five units, are actually pretty simple once you start playing it slow, don't rush in the enemy. The game seems pretty much designed to discourage rushing tactics. The same applies for Narcian's map. Besides it's a special map, it's supposed to be difficult. 

The only thing I agree is that feathers are complicated to get. But other than that, Fire Emblem Heroes is one of the most user-friendly gacha games out there. Compared to others, they are downright generous with the orbs.

 

Edited February 10, 2017 by Water Mage

[Refa]

It's more than worth fully upgrading your castle.  I know it sucks to miss out on several pulls, but you won't be able to make the best out of your units if they can't get enough EXP to fight.

Other than that, most of your issues can be answered with the fact that FE Heroes is a trashy game that's based on exploiting its user base to turn a profit.  Of course maps give enemies a huge advantage, that incentivizes the player to roll for the 5* units.  Said good units are rare so the player has to roll more for it.  To do so, orbs are needed.  Orbs are inconvenient to get in game so that the player is forced to buy orbs with real money.

My overall advice to you would not be to get good (because no matter your skill level with the game, I don't believe it is an issue with you personally), but rather to play a good game if you're getting frustrated with this one.

[shadowofchaos]

There are *SOME* valid points in this thread. But a lot of them stem from the lack of experience in Japanese Gacha system games.

 

This game is leagues more friendly than say... Fate Grand Order.

Edited February 10, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Raven said:

If you didn't yet know, upgrading the castle to gain 100% EXP (so 2x more exp than normal) is the most important thing you can do with regards to training units

I literally JUST said in the post above you that I did upgrade the castle. Not all the way yet, but I'm well aware that you should upgrade the castle as quickly as you can.

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Yes, I've upgraded twice...

After the initial pull with the first 17 orbs you get at the start of the game, all of my orbs from completing story missions went straight to leveling up my castle before I focused on pulling more characters. I do not regret this decision one bit, and I would highly recommend anyone else doing so.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[Anacybele]

6 minutes ago, Refa said:

It's more than worth fully upgrading your castle.  I know it sucks to miss out on several pulls, but you won't be able to make the best out of your units if they can't get enough EXP to fight.

Other than that, most of your issues can be answered with the fact that FE Heroes is a trashy game that's based on exploiting its user base to turn a profit.  Of course maps give enemies a huge advantage, that incentivizes the player to roll for the 5* units.  Said good units are rare so the player has to roll more for it.  To do so, orbs are needed.  Orbs are inconvenient to get in game so that the player is forced to buy orbs with real money.

My overall advice to you would not be to get good (because no matter your skill level with the game, I don't believe it is an issue with you personally), but rather to play a good game if you're getting frustrated with this one.

Are you basically saying to just give up on the game? I don't really want to do that, not with potentially getting Ike later. I intend to build a team full of Ikes. :P PoR Ike, RD Ike, Ike in the outfit he's won in the poll, and...I guess a second PoR or RD Ike. lol I know that'll take time and patience, but for that guy, it's worth it to me.

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

After the initial pull with the first 17 orbs you get at the start of the game, all of my orbs from completing story missions went straight to leveling up my castle before I focused on pulling more characters. I do not regret this decision one bit, and I would highly recommend anyone else doing so.

Hm. I do have enough orbs to upgrade one more time, I believe. I'll go do that then.

EDIT: Actually, I was able to do it two more times, so I did.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[Raven]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

I literally JUST said in the post above you that I did upgrade the castle. Not all the way yet, but I'm well aware that you should upgrade the castle as quickly as you can.

I was writing my post out during that time, so didn't read your replies. I'd appreciate it if you didn't reply in such a manner when I'm trying to be helpful, but it's up to you if you take this advice to heart.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Raven said:

I was writing my post out during that time, so didn't read your replies. I'd appreciate it if you didn't reply in such a manner when I'm trying to be helpful, but it's up to you if you take this advice to heart.

Seems you were writing this post here just as I wrote the one above as well. Sorry about that. >_< But I did upgrade the castle two more times.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Anacybele

[Eilanzer]

4 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

After the initial pull with the first 17 orbs you get at the start of the game, all of my orbs from completing story missions went straight to leveling up my castle before I focused on pulling more characters. I do not regret this decision one bit, and I would highly recommend anyone else doing so.

i would say that the best time to do a full upgrade of your castle is at 20+-...Because before that is too easy to level up and you need all the summons you can get to have a decent team =S

[Refa]

3 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Are you basically saying to just give up on the game? I don't really want to do that, not with potentially getting Ike later. I intend to build a team full of Ikes. :P PoR Ike, RD Ike, Ike in the outfit he's won in the poll, and...I guess a second PoR or RD Ike. lol I know that'll take time and patience, but for that guy, it's worth it to me.

Good luck with that, then.

2 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

There are *SOME* valid points in this thread. But a lot of them stem from the lack of experience in Japanese Gacha system games.

This game is leagues more friendly than say... Fate Grand Order.

I agree that there are much worse Gacha games out there.  There are even some that are illegal to play in Japan due to how manipulative they are!  I don't think it's a very good defense when you're referencing those games to defend Heroes, though.  I mean, it could be much worse, but it could like...also just not be a Gacha game.  Man, that'd be great!  Gacha is inherently shit for the user experience and the best examples of the genre are the ones that let you minimize the impacts of the Gacha components.

[shadowofchaos]

The problem is that people want their 5 star Ikes or whatever now.

A Gacha model, which they chose, hinges on long term patience and small purchases if you want to be a healthy gambler in this game.

Not everyone can or should be a whale.

Ana's dream of a team full of 5 star Ikes requires time and/or money. Mostly time.

You're playing Lunatic+ with a game company, Ana. To put it simply.

Edited February 10, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[Refa]

Or luck!  It's usually some combination of that, money, and time.  And people say that luck is a worthless stat SMH.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Refa

[Raven]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Seems you were writing this post here just as I wrote the one above as well. Sorry about that. >_< But I did upgrade the castle two more times.

That's good - as others have said already, upgrading the castle is very important due to the EXP boost. It's expensive (last 2 upgrades cost 8 and 10 orbs respectively), but as a result, you get a ton more EXP gained for the amount of stamina you will use. Over time, you will notice the difference. I upgraded my castle to 100% very early on, and I already have my 4 best units at level 40. Currently raising more and earning badges as stamina becomes available.

[Dragoncat]

By "switch around" I meant like...say you're at the training tower, and the one you want to do has a bunch of lance users and your team is full of sword users. You can take the sword users out and replace them with axe users. And it won't change. You'll have the advantage. The teams in the training tower don't change to have an advantage over the player. They don't change until you complete a map there. And you can always do what I described.

[Brand_Of_The_Exalt]

The problem with Orbs, is that they're present in good quantities in the game, but limited. So once you got all the Orbs available, you have to pay. IS should add more daily quests and events to get them, like other mobile games.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

- Maps almost always give the enemy a huge advantage and put you at a disadvantage

That's a strategy game. You have to make use of the map to get the advantage, the game won't do it for you, you know. It's a bit more difficult than before because of shitty movement, I won't deny it. But aside from Narcian's map, that is an event MADE to be difficult since you get a stronger hero, they are rather well-designed, and rather fair. A possibility to pick where your units start would be a nice addition though.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

- Exp gain suddenly gets really slow at around lv. 20. Sometimes your units don't get exp at all. I'm findiing it really hard to level anyone up at that point because if I try higher level maps, they just get killed, but if I try lower level ones, they don't get anymore exp or very little at all, making the process extremely long and tedious.

Units that are 4 levels above the enemies' don't get EXP. Otherwise, go to the higher strates of the training tower. I found two ways to EXP efficiently:

1) Raise a full team. Basically, have them at the same level, then grind them all at once. If they die, babysit one or two of them so he/they gets EXP and helps the other later.

2) Once you got some good units, make them baby the unit you want to level up, scratch the enemies so he can finish them in one blow and get all the kills. Let your other units die if needed anyway, they didn't get EXP.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

- Good units are too rare. I've done maybe 25 summons? Nearly all of them have been lowly three star units and repeat units. A few were four star. None were five star. I didn't re-roll in the beginning and I do blame myself for that because I simply didn't think of it. But not everyone can just go throwing more money at the game to keep trying. Which brings me to my next point.

That's just a question of luck unfortunately. But I can tell you, 6% chance to get a max stars units is very high compared to other mobile games. I'm not lucky by nature, and I got 3 5* on 6 or 7 pulls. Once again, you can perfectly finish the game in Normal mode and go very far in Hard with only 3-4* units. Maybe you should restart if you didn't put money in it, since apparently, your units are bad, so you won't lose a lot. And maybe be a little less stubborn on units "you don't care about". The game gives you tons powerful units like Mages to take care of bulky units, it cannot be faulted to be badly designed if you refuse to use them.

1 hour ago, Anacybele said:

- Some units could probably be nerfed too. For example, not even my high attack units can do much damage to manaketes. Frederick couldn't do ANY once and he was at a similar level.

YES. Especially Takumi in Arena. But for a mobile game with gacha, it's rather well-balanced overall. I was expecting leagues worst than that. Really.

Edited February 10, 2017 by Brand_Of_The_Exalt

[shadowofchaos]

3 minutes ago, Brand_Of_The_Exalt said:

But for a mobile game with gacha, it's rather well-balanced overall. I was expecting leagues worst than that. Really.

With my reference points of numerous Gacha games, even some R-18 DMM games I took a look at for laughs...

Heroes is a breath of fresh air. It's actually designed to be playable. Even for bad roll 3 star teams.

Edited February 10, 2017 by shadowofchaos