Sad look at some thoughts on our fanbase

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

Meh... if you play FE13 on hard as a newcomer it's understandable if you get problems. I don't find the earlygame so easy in HM when you can't grind yet.

[bethany81707]

1 minute ago, Slumber said:

Even Awakening on Hard is easier than most FEs on Normal. I get the feeling him trying to play FE games would probably draw a lot of criticism. His schtick is being a goofy airhead. If him playing normal-ass RPGs has ended in disaster before, him playing an RPG with explicit RPG elements on top would probably go over even worse.

Hm... I think his solo playthroughs have tended to restrict his goofiness to the plot, and he plays the game itself rather competently (though I fully expect a flourish that will wind up killing a unit).

In the end, though, one must always remember that it's not just the backlash that's holding him back.

[Augestein]

It's got nothing on Dragon Age's fanbase. At least that Fire Emblem's fanbase hasn't hit the point of basically demanding every type of "ism" character into the game and basically stomping on every single person that dare disagree with the hive mind. Granted the shipping is a bit of control, but crazy shippers have always been a thing. Maybe I'm in the wrong areas, but all of the FE fandom has been pretty... Okay for me. The only part that annoys me are the crazy people that insist that Fates had the worst story conceived by mankind and will browbeat you into submission or just leaving if you try to discuss anything around the characters etc. 

The divide of the Fire Emblem fanbase isn't that bad, as it's clear that with crazy shippers and the like, it wouldn't even need to have it as a gameplay element and people will STILL do it, so all they have to do is keep boys and girls in the game that are rather cute and that side of the fanbase should be pleased. The gameplay junkies will be satisfied if we keep getting things like Conquest-- heck, even Birthright isn't too bad, and honestly, I hate to admit it, but a piece of me likes the crazy experimental nature of Revelations even if it does have a noticeable dip in quality. 

Perhaps I just have middling standards, but I'm not the type of game that has opinions that lean in a strong direction in either way so they talk to me. Among my friends, they know I'm the "Fire Emblem guy," and generally speaking any FE news is old news to me. I get along with them just fine. 

[Nym]

Come on Chugga, this kind of things happens in very single community when there's multiple games they are different from one to another.

He could just put a disclaimer that he's playing this game casually so don't put his mistakes to heart or something

[De Geso]

I think he's making excuses as well. There is definitely some conflict in the fanbase between "new" and "old" fans of the franchise, and on places like 8ch there is a clear hostility toward the newer games (but even there some people are open-minded enough to try them out and give honest opinions about them), but to insist that the fanbase is so intimidating that you can't play a game is downright silly. 

The person responding to him is just parroting - funnily enough, something that happens a LOT in FE's fanbase. As soon as someone moderately influential in the fanbase (a youtuber, mod here, etc) offers an opinion on something a good amount of people will agree with them and then pretend that they have always felt that way. 

Anyway, I'm rambling. The point is that the fanbase isn't really that bad, and that's from someone who was outside of said fanbase until very recently. (I played the games but didn't really associate with anyone else that played them)

I will say, though, that people do kind of bully bad LPers of the games, but I find that most of the time it's just teasing and shouldn't be taken too seriously. 

Edited February 12, 2017 by YouSquiddinMe

[NekoKnight]

There is no problem here and some people need to grow thicker skin. This is the internet and some people are going to be toxic with their opinions. The only thing you can or should do for a community is encourage civil discourse. Live by this mantra:

 

[Res]

I feel a majority credit for the nicer fanbase here has to go to the rules and the moderators for enforcing the rules; basically, yes, a more civil discourse has been encouraged here. I still see a fair amount of vitriol and shitting on fans here but it's largely contained. 

[eclipse]

7 hours ago, Dual Dragons said:

It could start with just acknowledging everyone has different tastes and, you know, don't get insulted if someone doesn't like your favorite game. Some of us are very passionate about video games, but does it mean we need to feel like as though we're being attacked personally if someone doesn't like one's favorite game? Absolutely not.

There's a line between being passionate and being obnoxious.  Some people confuse the two.  I'm quite passionate about FE as a whole, and have my likes/dislikes.  However, if someone else thinks FE4 is the best/the DS games are awful, that's fine.

6 hours ago, Sunwoo said:

In all seriousness, to give a less flippant answer, I don't think there's a way to make the FE community seem less "intimidating", and it seems presumptuous to assume that there's really anything we can do to make a difference. Neither the "old fans" or the "new fans" are wholly innocent or in the wrong. Same thing with old fans who like the new stuff and old fans who hate it. Every side has that one shithead who makes the rest of us look bad, and each faction points to people like that crying about how "see, all of those fans are like that!" No one wants to take the first step and admit that they may be in the wrong.

There's also a line between bashing a game unfairly, talking about why you don't like it a bit too much but still being within bounds, and discussing why you don't like it in a thread dedicated to that topic. There are people who do go around bashing the new games in threads that have nothing to do with it, and that's wrong. But you also have people who come into threads that are dedicated to such discussion, which have been perfectly civil, and act all high-and-mighty and be like, "people just want to whine about this game unfairly". Both sides need to recognize that they do it, and they both need to stop.

People who feel the same way also don't have the same reasons for it, and it's rather exasperating when people call those who like the newer games "waifu lovers" or the people who prefer the old games, "backwards elitists" or whatever have you. I'm sure you guys have heard (and maybe called each other by) various types of names. Our feelings are not simplistic, and they deserve to not be portrayed as a hive mind.

Do I think it's disheartening when people are too intimidated by a fanbase to do something? Not really. In my mind, it's an obstacle that you will either conquer or you will let yourself be conquered by. Is the game itself, or a project you want to do for the game, important enough to you so that you will risk getting people screaming at you? Or is your desire to not be screamed at stronger? Do you even care what other fans think about the things you like or don't like? And why should you?

FE fanbase isn't great. But I don't think it's going to fix itself anytime soon, and that asking people "can't we get along" is going to make things worse. Leave it as it is. If you can also learn how to not care what people think about your tastes regarding a certain game or series, even better.

There's also a line between complaining about something and being toxic about it.  If you're writing multiple essays about why something sucks, in the same rant topic, step back and ask yourself whether or not this accomplishes anything.  Developing internal strength is something good.  So is having empathy for the people around you, and asking yourself how your posts look to everyone else.  They're not mutually exclusive.

(mafia player here, guilty as charged)

6 hours ago, dap005 said:

This is why I couldn't really be sold on Fate, the tone just didn't appeal to me (and the whole three game split thing, I'm a cheap-skate and ended up buying IS's code name steam instead, which ended up being one of my favourite games) as much as the other FE titles - and a large part of that is the dating-sim-inspired stuff. Though I did like the ancient Japanese style of Birthright, it looked too much like an Awakening clone which as someone that's bored of having the same thing didn't work for me either.

SoV's announcement though, pulled me right back into FE obsession again and I guess it's how gaiden is so different from other fes gameplay wise and how the tone of the game just appealed more to me (Hidari's designs, the focus on non-avatar characters, and possible chance they'll add supports that are relevant to the world-building rather etc). And frankly bc of the lack of all the pandering stuff, I find it much easier to recommend it to a friend who's never played a FE. 

The actual dating sim game was FE4, sans long conversations.  I guess you didn't like that one, either.

4 hours ago, Ranger Jack Walker said:

Why does this divide matter? People have different opinions. Get used to it.

Empathy matters.

3 hours ago, Slumber said:

Even Awakening on Hard is easier than most FEs on Normal. I get the feeling him trying to play FE games would probably draw a lot of criticism. His schtick is being a goofy airhead. If him playing normal-ass RPGs has ended in disaster before, him playing an RPG with explicit strategy elements on top would probably go over even worse.

This what I thought, until I met someone who struggled with Awakening's Normal difficulty - and it has nothing to do with that person's intelligence.  FE throws a lot of things at the player - for some, it's not too bad.  For others, it's overwhelming.

---

I think the fanbase has gotten a bit better, at least here on SF.  I remember the tier list arguments of old, which IMO were worse than what's here.  New announcements tend to bring out the worst of the fanbase.

Edited February 12, 2017 by eclipse

[Water Mage]

I saw the Tweet as well, and it made me sad. I can really understand his point, with some fans thinking themselves superior because they dislike Awakening. 

That being said, Chugga make LPs of Pokemon, which has a even more divise fandom.

[Nobody]

This is such a non issue. If someone ends up not playing a video game just because of its "fanbase" (which is a concept that i actually find dumb), then its their loss.

I also think "campaigning" to change a "fanbase" is unefficient and honestly, quite nonsensical. I'm not nintendo or intelligent systems, it's not my job to make Fire Emblem games sell better, and in the end of the road, I doubt this has any effect on sales. 

I don't understand why I should care about how people act just because they share an interest with me.

Edited February 12, 2017 by Nobody

[Water Mage]

Also, the game Chugga had a hard time was not Awakening.

https://mobile.twitter.com/chuggaaconroy/status/830853830501859329

[Thunderstar]

I don't really see the problem about this.
It happens in most of the communities, not only for FE but for other games he did LPs as well, like Mario, Zelda and Pokémon.

Some of Chugga/Emile's fans have been complaining as well for years about some of his decisions (CoD kids crying that he was doing only Nintendo games LPs and not CoD LPs, Pokémon fans being pissed that he doesn't do more Pokémon LPs, Nintendo fans who didn't like him doing LPs of Sonic Colors and the Okami series, Smash fans with his collab videos with the Runawayguys, etc...) and it didn't stop him because he wants to do LPs of games he likes both for him and for some of his fans who enjoy them.

Currently he is even doing a LP of Zelda Skyward Sword, a game that some fans of the Zelda series (which is also divided and "intimidating") don't like but he is still doing this instead of OoT and TP because he likes the game and he wants to do it.

If he liked to play Awakening and wants to do a LP of it even on Casual mode, then he can make one and just ignore the negative opinions of this game and the complaints in the youtube comments.

[Florete]

This is nothing new, and not at all unique to FE. Any fanbase that grows even somewhat large is going to get these kinds of reactions, and every fanbase has its bad apples. There's nothing to be "done" about it, nor is there any need to.

[SageOfAnys]

Jeez, Chugga said this? That's a crying shame, he's a great guy and would've introduced a lot of new enthusiastic fans into the series. After all, he helped me and a bunch of others get into the Xenoblade franchise.

To be honest though, I can sort of see where he's coming from. The fandom split in FE is like the Zelda fandom on steroids. I'm honestly thankful Serenes was the first FE fandom place I decided to enter, as my introduction to the Zelda franchise essentially made me "stop" being a fan for a couple of years due to the toxicity of the attacks I saw. (Granted, that was the first time I ever entered a fandom and I was sweet and ignorant child) But at the same time, this is an internet fandom. Crazy BS happens all the time, and it's always the crazy BS you see first.

Really, there's no way to "fix" a fandom split this big. Splits this big between the majority and hyper-vocal minorities have existed in franchises like Pokémon and Zelda for years and they still are around. The most you can do is just have the majorities show their general disapproval of these groups, but like I said, it's not going to improve anything.

I think the bigger problem to focus these days with the fanbase is not that a divide exists, it's natural and going to stay, it's when those hyper-vocal minorities seem to actively try to stop some players from entering with the newer games that they might be more comfortable playing or attacking newer fans that want to enter the fandom of a newly-found game series. Or the hyper-minorities on the opposite side of the spectrum where they'll attack the older games without any or minimal experience playing the more classic titles.

[Sire]

Having played since the GBA days, I guess I can consider myself a Fire Emblem veteran. However, one thing most people miss is that every Fire Emblem game has its pros and cons. There is no such thing as a "Perfect" Fire Emblem game. There may be a game that an individual favors out of all of them, but there is no perfect, number one title.

As of late, as a "FE veteran," I am concerned about the recent spike in fanservice (Fire Emblem is being called "Waifu Emblem" these days) as well as the recent attempts at incorporating an Avatar character into a story and the poor storytelling in general. I have no issues with the introduction of Casual or Phoenix mode and the music, while different due to the "Map Theme vs Map Battle" variants, is still generally good. 

There have been Avatar characters in the past (see Blazing Sword), but that Avatar had minimal impact on the overall story. There have also been fanservicey characters (Linde from Shadow Dragon and the original FE || Any female Myrmidon or Swordmaster || Any Dancer character, save Ninian || Sonia from Blazing Sword || and so on). There have been marriages (Seth and Erika from Sacred Stones, Pent and Louise from Blazing Sword, Elicina and Geoffrey from Radiant Dawn, etc) There have been children. (Genealogy)

The big difference between now and then is currently the fanservice is ramped up to 11, with "My Room" scenes, "Everybody loves the Avatar, including Avatar only options," suggestive poses that do not make sense for the character (see Awakening official art), impractical character designs (Camilla, Nowi), swimsuit DLC and underwear, romantic confessions, and so on.

Generally, I don't mind fanservice. Some character suit the fanservice role with their personality, having an outfit to match. Swimsuit DLC is something I expect from JPN games  these days so I could give Fire Emblem a pass. However, everything else (My Room, Avatar Worship, Confessions) takes the fanservice way too far.

A recent Fire Emblem game that does fanservice all right (sans Avatar worship...) is Fire Emblem: Heroes. Yes, some characters have their poses and outfits, but the biggest thing here is the "injured / torn outfit" art. I am okay with that. They are still covered up enough and the torn outfit can be seen as actual battle wear, even if some locations don't make much sense...

Then there is the poor storytelling of Fates, especially after fan's expectations were raised since "We heard about the complaints of Awakening's story. We'll make a better one for Fates!" The concept was spectacular (a noble taken from one kingdom but raised in another, birthright versus loyalty) but was executed extremely poorly (poor plot devices, Corrin being Corrin, Azura being Azura, and so on). I don't expect the next blockbuster hit in Fire Emblem, but I do want a story that makes sense and will not shatter my immersion during my first playthrough. Fates does have some good scenes, but even those could have been improved with proper buildup and world building...

Now, as for newcomers, I feel many veterans are rather emotional about many of the new changes and lash out at anyone who disagrees with them. This is mostly at fault with the veterans overreacting, I understand that some of the recent changes are not to your liking (I don't like some of the either), but being mean and disrespectful to new fans is one way to divide the fanbase and possibly even kill the franchise. This attitude can cause a backlash and may push these new players against playing the "classics" because of how much hate the veterans dish out at the newer titles. [As a personal example, I hear Undertale is supposed to be a fantastic game. Problem is, I have experienced their fanbase overflow to non-Undertale topics and found the community to be rather toxic and annoying. Thus, I will likely never play Undertale despite it supposedly being an awesome title, because the fanbase killed it for me.]

Intelligent Systems knows it has a separate fanbase, just look at how they handled Fates with Birthright (catering towards Awakening and newcomers) and Conquest (catering towards veterans and tacticians). I personally would love more Conquest (and Radiant Dawn) style maps with varied objectives, but I know some players would just prefer "kill the leader, kill all enemies, or seize the throne."

All I can do is hope IS can make future titles somehow appeal to both of the demographics. I want less fanservice, a better story, and more complex gameplay. Newcomers will likely want characters who they can connect to and simpler (easier) gameplay. IS has to make the move first, and once a game is released that both sides can be content with, then maybe the divide will lessen. Until then, I don't see much changing.

Spoiler Note: Below is some random stuff I started writing up before settling on the wall of text above. I don't particular want to get rid of it, so it is there in an incomplete form if anyone is interested.

Also, before Awakening and Fates, I remember Radiant Dawn being of much story discussion because of the dreaded "Blood Pact" plot device. 

Fire Emblem Fates' story has been beaten into oblivion, and with good reason. There is also the distinct lack of character and world development (with exceptions), even though Fates was supposed to be three separate titles. The Tellius games (Path of Radiance & Radiant Dawn) had excellent worldbuilding and character development, although Radiant Dawn did suffer from a lack of proper support conversations.

Despite the flaws with Fates, Conquest remains one of the best gameplay titles of the Fire Emblem franchise, rivaling Radiant Dawn. Those who have played Conquest all know about the Port Town at Chapter 10, The Ninja Cave in Chapter 17, the Darude Sandstorm Wind Tribe Village at chapter 20, and so on. The music was also praised, not only from Conquest, but from Birthright, Revelations, and even the DLC!

I personally love Sacred Stones because each character was unique and has his/her own story. The paired endings also greatly help with this as not all paired endings were romantic. [End of random stuff]

[Fly_or_Die]

I would definitely disagree with the idea that the FE fandom is too toxic (granted, I don't know anything about the Sonic fandom, so I'm just going off what I can tell from here).

Yes, there ARE people that grumble about the game being "fanservice-y" or appealing to casuals or having terrible writing, especially when FE13/14 were just released. But now, some time later, most people can agree that it's all still Fire Emblem and it's all still enjoyable. It's not as though the GBA FE games were some gold standard of character/plot writing anyway.

You can easily play through the newest games and most people will be happy to discuss them with you. I just don't see this being an example of a particularly "scary" community. Unless SF just happens to have an extremely pleasant community compared to everywhere else.

[The DanMan]

7 hours ago, Slumber said:

Even Awakening on Hard is easier than most FEs on Normal. I get the feeling him trying to play FE games would probably draw a lot of criticism. His schtick is being a goofy airhead. If him playing normal-ass RPGs has ended in disaster before, him playing an RPG with explicit strategy elements on top would probably go over even worse.

Earthbound and Xenoblade are two of his favorite games of all time, and from TRG videos he definitely seems like a rather RPG-oriented gamer. In general, I feel like a lot of people who tried FE but didn't get into it until Awakening was more due to them getting used to the learning curve.
And I'll say it here: Awakening Hard mode, no grind, is harder than FE7, FE8, and Shadow Dragon on normal (and even Birthright on Hard, played the same way). It's basically impossible to lose anybody on normal mode in those games if you know what you're doing (and Hard on Birthright). Once you near the end of the Valm Arc, unless you've deliberately tuned everything in advance, the massive enemy swarms with forged weapons are pretty overwhelming. Of course, grinding renders that entirely moot.

Anyways, personal outburst: damn you Commander Shu.

If there's one thing I've learned from SF, it's that by and large Fire Emblem fans are just fine. The people decrying the fandom stir up just as much, if not more than, the actual assholes on gamefaqs, the subreddit (which actually has semi-moderated itself) and in youtube comments. You. Know. Nothing.
I'll take this a step further: the newer fans stir up more stuff than the older ones. The elitists generally act in an echo chamber. The weebs (I have no other term to describe them and a lot of their negative behavior fits under it) are loud and proud. I nearly quit SF in the weeks following up to Fates' release because of the amount of people bitching about "censorship" and "abysmal dubbing/no sub". It wasn't just on SF-- it was freakin' everywhere. Nintendo Life, Siliconera, Destructoid, IGN... . The problem isn't their opinion, it's that many acted like self-righteous assholes about it. Rey called out people multiple times on his tumblr-- people would insult those who were ambivalent or, heaven forbid, actually willing to defend those changes.

But most fans of the newer games are just fine. As is the fandom in general. SF is basically the FE forum, and the community here is pretty damn good. I think anybody who's trying to decry the fandom should look here before spouting out anything. I've seen what a truly bad fandom looks like, and even at its worst the FE fandom isn't there.

I hope somebody links this thread to Emile and he can see some of that for himself.

[dap005]

3 hours ago, eclipse said:

The actual dating sim game was FE4, sans long conversations.  I guess you didn't like that one, either.

 

I never played fe4 since I want to wait for a non-emulated release to experience it fresh. But from what I heard the marriage and child systems made better sense in their implementation. And there are no avatars characters that characters swooned over/better plot. Though I can't say anymore about Jugdral games beyond that assumption :P. 

Fates had elements of dating-sim games in the sense that you can essentially um play around with the characters (well it's far tamer than a lot of other vs out there), which kind of put me off. I grew up on Japanese media (not much else to do when you're a Chinese kid growing up in the UK) but I'm also tired of a lot of the 'fan-service' and ecchi stuff that makes it difficult to recommend to people who find it creepy (especially when there are kid-like characters in bikini armour).

Even if fates gets called 'waifu emblem' or whatever the games are still very well made and are so much more than what it looks like on the surface (since it's was grabbing headlines for things like face petting which gave off the wrong impression). Regardless what the general public thinks I have no doubt that alot of people enjoyed it as a srpg. 

But, at the time I was hyping more about code name steam since it was the more appealing strategy game to me both tonally and gameplay wise. Though I'm in no way going to criticize a game I didn't play in Fates, more just expressing how the game was presented, didn't apeal to me as much as say SoV.  

And well being in uni meant that I have to save money so can't feasibly buy that many games so I have to prioritize. I want to support IS going forward though which is why I purchased Code name steam and will be getting all the echoes games (hopefully it's a series), the old games already sold themselves to me :P. 

Ho boy that was meant to be a much shorter reply. xD I ranted too much. 

 

[The Geek]

I'm gonna back up the theory that what Chuggaa is actually afraid of is people harping on him about his strategy.  There are backseat gamers in every LP comment section, but I feel like a game like Fire Emblem could easily attract that tenfold with all the divided opinions on who you should use and what weapons you should use.  And God help him if he had to restart a chapter several times.

It's also just generally a very hard kind of game to LP because of its overall slow pace.  Now I personally think Chuggaa has the energy to pull it off, but the point still stands as a reason he may not want to do it.

[Slumber]

5 minutes ago, dap005 said:

And well being in uni meant that I have to save money so can't feasibly buy that many games so I have to prioritize. I want to support IS going forward though which is why I purchased Code name steam and will be getting all the echoes games (hopefully it's a series), the old games already sold themselves to me :P.

I don't think you have to worry about supporting IS if it means hurting your wallet for it. They're basically Nintendo's workhorse studio, being given tons of different projects, big and small. Their own internal projects have generally been hit or miss(Financially), but I think Awakening showed that FE could be a big franchise, and Fates has solidified it as one.

I think IS will be fine going forward.

[dap005]

4 minutes ago, Slumber said:

I don't think you have to worry about supporting IS if it means hurting your wallet for it. They're basically Nintendo's workhorse studio, being given tons of different projects, big and small. Their own internal projects have generally been hit or miss(Financially), but I think Awakening showed that FE could be a big franchise, and Fates has solidified it as one.

I think IS will be fine going forward.

Oh ye, I'm sure they'll be fine and dandy, Nintendo is the reason I wanted to make games (I have the Iwata asks to thank as well) and IS is a large part of that too (so was very happy to hear that Nintendo opened a hq for the staff specifically). So I'm happy to support them, plus trade-ins help too :P.

I think it's that time of the day where I'm going more off topic than usual. How did I manage to jump from fe4 to talking about my wallet I'll never know lol. 

[Slumber]

1 minute ago, dap005 said:

Oh ye, I'm sure they'll be fine and dandy, Nintendo is the reason I wanted to make games (I have the Iwata asks to thank as well) and IS is a large part of that too (so was very happy to hear that Nintendo opened a hq for the staff specifically). So I'm happy to support them, plus trade-ins help too :P.

I think it's that time of the day where I'm going more off topic than usual. How did I manage to jump from fe4 to talking about my wallet I'll never know lol. 

This is kind of a meta-discussion about Fire Emblem and the community, so it's not like there isn't a thread between the games and something like how much you like supporting the development studio.

[eclipse]

20 minutes ago, dap005 said:

 

I never played fe4 since I want to wait for a non-emulated release to experience it fresh. But from what I heard the marriage and child systems made better sense in their implementation. And there are no avatars characters that characters swooned over/better plot. Though I can't say anymore about Jugdral games beyond that assumption :P. 

Fates had elements of dating-sim games in the sense that you can essentially um play around with the characters (well it's far tamer than a lot of other vs out there), which kind of put me off. I grew up on Japanese media (not much else to do when you're a Chinese kid growing up in the UK) but I'm also tired of a lot of the 'fan-service' and ecchi stuff that makes it difficult to recommend to people who find it creepy (especially when there are kid-like characters in bikini armour).

Even if fates gets called 'waifu emblem' or whatever the games are still very well made and are so much more than what it looks like on the surface (since it's was grabbing headlines for things like face petting which gave off the wrong impression). Regardless what the general public thinks I have no doubt that alot of people enjoyed it as a srpg. 

But, at the time I was hyping more about code name steam since it was the more appealing strategy game to me both tonally and gameplay wise. Though I'm in no way going to criticize a game I didn't play in Fates, more just expressing how the game was presented, didn't apeal to me as much as say SoV.  

And well being in uni meant that I have to save money so can't feasibly buy that many games so I have to prioritize. I want to support IS going forward though which is why I purchased Code name steam and will be getting all the echoes games (hopefully it's a series), the old games already sold themselves to me :P. 

Ho boy that was meant to be a much shorter reply. xD I ranted too much. 

 

Yes and no.

Certain pairings were set, but afterwards, it was a free-for-all.  However, there was no in-game warnings to tell you that you were about to marry Lewyn to Silvia or something like that.  Certain people had conversations/got items depending on who you paired.  And if a mom died single, you got replacement units that were usually worse.  The GBA FE games had marriages in the epilogue, and shipping wars happened there, too (see: who married Hector).  Everyone supporting everyone?  That's Radiant Dawn.

In other words, if you're going to complain about some aspect of FE, do some research, because your beef with Fates isn't something new.  It's an extension of something that's already happened (yes, even the fanservice-y armor, which IMO is far less insulting than the GBA pegasus knights).

[Slumber]

How are cavaliers in thongs less insulting than pegasus knights in skirts?

[Dual Dragons]

4 hours ago, eclipse said:

There's a line between being passionate and being obnoxious.  Some people confuse the two.  I'm quite passionate about FE as a whole, and have my likes/dislikes.  However, if someone else thinks FE4 is the best/the DS games are awful, that's fine.

I've met people who I would say that I didn't like their favorite game due to X reasons--and I would make it extremely clear that they were personal opinions (i.e. "the music is too light-hearted for me to get into the combat")... and they would act as though I called them stupid or that they had bad tastes.

I asked why they were making the game be an extension of themselves because it wasn't like I insulted them. They wouldn't answer that and instead cry that nobody likes what they like and "everyone likes the bad games and characters." I also tried to tell them to cut that negativity out because nobody in that discussion was saying their game was bad so why did they feel they had the right to call another game bad. Nope. Nothing.

--

I see a little bit of talk about how Chuggaaconroy is using the fanbase as an excuse for his learning curve difficulties. Don't be mean. We were all there once--maybe not with Fire Emblem but a game genre you've never tried before. And again, when he makes mistakes, he is either admitting to them or having them be funny, which is way more than I can say for some people.

If he wanted to hide his "incompetence," I don't think he would even mention having "logistical issues."

If I wanted something to be more worried about, it's the backseat gaming. Fire Emblem is really open to backseat gaming and that can tie into his fears of the fanbase as well.