Favorite Wafus and Husbandos of Awakening

[tumut]

Boiii Owain is such a babe, can't say Basilio isn't either. Love those guys.

 

And there's no Cherche so Anna.

[omegaxis1]

Lucina FTW!!! I didn't even know how pairings worked when I got Awakening the first time, but I naturally put Lucina and Robin together, and my god I loved their supports. Technicalities be damned about the age thing, because those two are meant for one another!

[Arthur97]

21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Lucina FTW!!! I didn't even know how pairings worked when I got Awakening the first time, but I naturally put Lucina and Robin together, and my god I loved their supports. Technicalities be damned about the age thing, because those two are meant for one another!

I actually married him to Cordelia the first time (lesson to never rush a relationship, even a fake one), but before I finished the final chapter, I went support grinding (since I thought that the ending would actually depend on Robin's support levels) and I really liked their supports to the point that I played through it again after beating it just so I could pair them together.

[omegaxis1]

6 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

I actually married him to Cordelia the first time (lesson to never rush a relationship, even a fake one), but before I finished the final chapter, I went support grinding (since I thought that the ending would actually depend on Robin's support levels) and I really liked their supports to the point that I played through it again after beating it just so I could pair them together.

Were you surprised by how Lucina's judgment is affected by them getting married?

[Arthur97]

3 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Were you surprised by how Lucina's judgment is affected by them getting married?

Not sure if surprised is the right word, but it was a nice touch. I just wish they didn't recycle essentially the same thing if Female Robin is her mother. It just really takes away from the scene for me. 

[omegaxis1]

Just now, Arthur97 said:

Not sure if surprised is the right word, but it was a nice touch. I just wish they didn't recycle essentially the same thing if Female Robin is her mother. It just really takes away from the scene for me. 

Not really. Think about it, Lucina value family so much that she's willing to kill almost anyone that would harm her father. M!Robin being her husband or F!Robin being her mother makes it show that one side, she has to kill the man she fell in love with to save her father, and the other shows that to save her father, she has to kill her mother. Its so hard to make that choice. 

Ironically, she ultimately fell in love with the very being that destroyed her world or is actually the daughter of the one that destroyed her world. But she couldn't bring herself to kill either, because it shows how far her love is. 

[Arthur97]

8 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

Not really. Think about it, Lucina value family so much that she's willing to kill almost anyone that would harm her father. M!Robin being her husband or F!Robin being her mother makes it show that one side, she has to kill the man she fell in love with to save her father, and the other shows that to save her father, she has to kill her mother. Its so hard to make that choice. 

Ironically, she ultimately fell in love with the very being that destroyed her world or is actually the daughter of the one that destroyed her world. But she couldn't bring herself to kill either, because it shows how far her love is. 

Well, yeah, but I just wish it wasn't virtually the same conversation.

In fact, I wish there was more specialized dialogue. I get why they did it from a programming perspective, but there were times that one would thing that their spouse would have something special to say. Oddly enough, they do that if you let Chrom strike the final blow, but not if you have Robin do it.

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, Arthur97 said:

Well, yeah, but I just wish it wasn't virtually the same conversation.

In fact, I wish there was more specialized dialogue. I get why they did it from a programming perspective, but there were times that one would thing that their spouse would have something special to say. Oddly enough, they do that if you let Chrom strike the final blow, but not if you have Robin do it.

Oh, you mean how there's that dialogue where Robin's spouse or child supports their decision? I think its cause Robin's actually there to hear it. Otherwise, Robin is gone and there's nothing else to be said. 

[shadowofchaos]

1 hour ago, omegaxis1 said:

Ironically, she ultimately fell in love with the very being that destroyed her world or is actually the daughter of the one that destroyed her world. But she couldn't bring herself to kill either, because it shows how far her love is. 

There are multiple ways of interpreting this.

What is her moral compass? Is it one life for many? Or many for one? Does she shoulder her responsibility not only as a princess, but as the only one that can stop it with thr Parallel Falchion? Or does she be what she always wanted? A daughter with her own wants.

Awakening fails to explore this enough. And while I can sympathize with the situation... to play devil's advocate: She is sacrificing an entire world (from her perspective at that time) for a few weeks, if not days with the MU and her father not possessed and alive respectively.

All the sacrifices, and all the things they did to transcend time to prevent it down the drain.

It is arguably the most selfish decision her character can make with the premise Awakening gives. After all, Chrom is about as selfish as they come with "No, we have to find a way that doesn't involve you sacrificing yourself."

Awakening lords are naive. And the player is empowered to get good endings without consequences because it was going to be the last game in the series.

Tagging @Sunwoo

Edited May 9, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[omegaxis1]

1 hour ago, shadowofchaos said:

There are multiple ways of interpreting this.

What is her moral compass? Is it one life for many? Or many for one? Does she shoulder her responsibility not only as a princess, but as the only one that can stop it with thr Parallel Falchion? Or does she be what she always wanted? A daughter with her own wants.

Awakening fails to explore this enough. And while I can sympathize with the situation... to play devil's advocate: She is sacrificing an entire world (from her perspective at that time) for a few weeks, if not days with the MU and her father not possessed and alive respectively.

All the sacrifices, and all the things they did to transcend time to prevent it down the drain.

It is arguably the most selfish decision her character can make with the premise Awakening gives. After all, Chrom is about as selfish as they come with "No, we have to find a way that doesn't involve you sacrificing yourself."

Awakening lords are naive. And the player is empowered to get good endings without consequences because it was going to be the last game in the series.

Tagging @Sunwoo

In the case of naivete, even Marth would fit that at times. He doesn't want to sacrifice comrades, and absolutely hates losing them. He wants to save all the people and the thought of losing a friend would hurt him dearly. He just learns to accept it. In a sense, both Chrom and Lucina want to believe they can save everyone without sacrificing everyone. 

Lucina's case we can explore plenty. She knew that she had to save the world, and knew that she would need to be ready when the time came. However, the bond she forges with Robin (husband or mother) is something that she cannot deny. For so long, she's been keeping so much of her emotions in check, trying to always put the benefit of the world before her own desires. But she even comments that the thought of having to choose the world or the person she loves is something she doesn't want to ever make as explained in the hot springs conversation. 

The time ultimately did come when she had to choose, and even though she tried to, her emotions broke through and she couldn't. Is it selfish, sure, but since when has many choices been out of pure selflessness? Selfishness exists in many forms really. But after hell for so long and finally being with her family or falling in love, she has something that she truly doesn't want to lose no matter what, so in that matter, she can't bring herself to give it up. And she ended up choosing to believe that they can still change fate. 

And they did. Awakening might have been the one to get the "best" ending easily, but you're forgetting multiple things.

This is a new timeline. 

The very truth is that Grima WON originally. The world had become hell. Humanity was on the verge of extinction. Lucina and the others had to ABANDON their world to save the past. When you really think about it, in the end, Awakening actually had the darkest story underneath it. 

[shadowofchaos]

21 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

In the case of naivete, even Marth would fit that at times. He doesn't want to sacrifice comrades, and absolutely hates losing them. He wants to save all the people and the thought of losing a friend would hurt him dearly. He just learns to accept it. In a sense, both Chrom and Lucina want to believe they can save everyone without sacrificing everyone. 

Lucina's case we can explore plenty. She knew that she had to save the world, and knew that she would need to be ready when the time came. However, the bond she forges with Robin (husband or mother) is something that she cannot deny. For so long, she's been keeping so much of her emotions in check, trying to always put the benefit of the world before her own desires. But she even comments that the thought of having to choose the world or the person she loves is something she doesn't want to ever make as explained in the hot springs conversation. 

The time ultimately did come when she had to choose, and even though she tried to, her emotions broke through and she couldn't. Is it selfish, sure, but since when has many choices been out of pure selflessness? Selfishness exists in many forms really. But after hell for so long and finally being with her family or falling in love, she has something that she truly doesn't want to lose no matter what, so in that matter, she can't bring herself to give it up. And she ended up choosing to believe that they can still change fate. 

And they did. Awakening might have been the one to get the "best" ending easily, but you're forgetting multiple things.

This is a new timeline. 

The very truth is that Grima WON originally. The world had become hell. Humanity was on the verge of extinction. Lucina and the others had to ABANDON their world to save the past. When you really think about it, in the end, Awakening actually had the darkest story underneath it. 

Marth is faced with thr reality of his ideals. Chrom and Lucina, are not. They get their ideal endings via MU's choice. There is no actual "sacrifice" at the end. And when you choose not to sacrifice MU, the ending gives you another pat on the back saying "Grima will always lose, no matter if they resurrect". You know, barring the lives that will be lost in that theoretical revival.

Lucina's character isn't enhanced by any relationship with MU. It almost seems detrimental to it. Her conflict is all about MU. Not her. Not her upbringing. Not her duty.

 

About the last part: The Future of Despair DLC and the Hot Springs DLC expand on her character, yes.

But the scene itself without those does not embody any sense of importance when the choice only serves to enforce that the player made the right choice in either case (to give into Lucina, or to resist). It makes that DLC conversation development utterly devoid of value when the player choice being right either way overshadows her.

The importance of the choice for the player as well as Lucina is ultimately meaningless if all the player gets is a pat on the back "it's all right" with Chrom showing up.

For obvious reasons, Lucina gets to be more of a token waifu/daughteru because of main character spotlight. Connections with her and the player is more intimate because her character is so much in front compared to others set up in support conversations only.

Let us also explore the other, more common case with the playerbase: One where Lucina has no connection to the player whatsoever. She trusts her father. But how much? Why does this stranger to her but recently, possibly being her father's murderer, deserve her trust when so much else already shows her that they are "the bad ending". How much more does she have to trust her father in this case?

(The very theme and concept of bonds, is in the English game. But the word itself is like a plague being avoided in contrast to JP)

Edited May 9, 2017 by shadowofchaos

[omegaxis1]

12 minutes ago, shadowofchaos said:

Marth is faced with thr reality of his ideals. Chrom and Lucina, are not. They get their ideal endings via MU's choice. There is no actual "sacrifice" at the end. And when you choose not to sacrifice MU, the ending gives you another pat on the back saying "Grima will always lose, no matter if they resurrect". You know, barring the lives that will be lost in that theoretical revival.

Lucina's character isn't enhanced by any relationship with MU. It almost seems detrimental to it. Her conflict is all about MU. Not her. Not her upbringing. Not her duty.

 

About the last part: The Future of Despair DLC and the Hot Springs DLC expand on her character, yes.

But the scene itself without those does not embody any sense of importance when the choice only serves to enforce that the player made the right choice in either case (to give into Lucina, or to resist).

The importance of the choice for the player as well as Lucina is ultimately meaningless if all the player gets is a pat on the back "it's all right" with Chrom showing up.

For obvious reasons, Lucina gets to be more of a token waifu/daughteru because of main character spotlight. Connections with her and the player is more intimate because her character is so much in front compared to others set up in support conversations only.

Let us also explore the other, more common case with the playerbase: One where Lucina has no connection to the player whatsoever. She trusts her father. But how much? Why does this stranger to her but recently, possibly being her father's murderer, deserve her trust when so much else already shows her that they are "the bad ending". How much more does she have to trust her father in this case?

(The very theme and concept of bonds, is in the English game. But the word itself is like a plague being avoided in contrast to JP)

Actually, they do. However, I do admit that the lack of choices affecting anything in the story is rather stupid. However, Chrom did lose Emmeryn. Yes, in a paralogue, we find out she's alive, though she might be better off dead in the state she's in, but given how the timing is, we could even potentially label that as noncanon, and the fact is that in the story, Chrom and Lissa did lose their sister. They lost the only family they had left to them, and if the Drama CD's shown anything, its that Chrom even felt Emmeryn to be more of a mother than a sister, and had to watch her endure hardships and never being resentful for it. Chrom ultimately had to take Emmeryn's death and continue on forward. Even when he did find her, Emmeryn was broken and has no memories, and the real harsh thing is that she would never regain those memories unless she dies, which is just as cruel. Reality has hit Chrom already. For Lucina, we saw from scenes that she has already accepted reality and she has seen hell already. We saw Ylisse burning and we saw how terrified she was when Grima was about to kill her. 

I admit that the story should have expanded a bit more on these things, but when you really think about what they've been through even without seeing it, you know that they've already gone through a lot, especially Lucina. 

And really, Lucina being the main character isn't what made me like her. Actually, after Lucina its Tiki and then Emmeryn, but Tiki was very close to being first for me. 

And her conflict is with the MU because when has anything been really about HER as a person? No really, think about it. Hardly any time in the story has she ever talked about herself as a person, just about the hell on earth future she lived through, her mission, and so on. Even in most of her supports, she doesn't really display anything beyond a serious persona. The MU being a big part when its her judgment scene shows that if its the husband or mother, we do see that she wants something for herself badly. 

In the case that Robin is not a lover or mother, then you have a point. She is wary and was ready to really kill them. However, she wants to believe that there is hope for the future, as her quotes go many times, "Hope will never die." So she really wanted to believe that they can stop the future again. She wanted to place her hopes that maybe they can change the future. And if you think about it, hope is actually what's been helping her keep going all this time. If she ever gave up on it, she'd have already given up, and acted like Gerome. But its only through her faith in hope that she's able to decide to give it another chance. 

Had Chrom really did die, well yeah, her hope was sadly misplaced. However, in the end, her hope wasn't misplaced because Chrom did survive in the end. 

[shadowofchaos]

7 minutes ago, omegaxis1 said:

However, she wants to believe that there is hope for the future, as her quotes go many times, "Hope will never die."

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I do agree with some of your points.

I tend to like Lucina's character, but from the way people see her in other spaces, it's not exactly for her deeper character.

Also as a side note, that line is localization only.

 

 

[omegaxis1]

1 minute ago, shadowofchaos said:

I'm just playing devil's advocate.

I do agree with some of your points.

I tend to like Lucina's character, but from the way people see her in other spaces, it's not exactly for her deeper character.

Also as a side note, that line is localization only.

Ah, I see. Well, I don't see her as the case on the people you refer to. I love her for her character. 

Is it? Eh, regardless, doesn't change that hope was all she had to depend on for so long.

[Sunwoo]

2 hours ago, shadowofchaos said:

Tagging @Sunwoo

Oh hello, this argument again. How I've missed you.

I can see why some people find this aspect of Lucina's character endearing, but for me it was one of the biggest turn offs to her character. It finally sealed the deal as to why I didn't like her anymore (I'm merely eh on her character now).

Regardless of whether it makes Lucina more human and relatable or not, it is a selfish decision either way -- for two reasons. The first reason is pretty straightforward: Grima destroyed her timeline and killed her parents and many innocent people. As the current Exalt and wielder of the Falchion, it is her duty to keep the world safe. By choosing to not kill Robin, Lucina is putting her feelings above millions of people. Not just one, not just two, not just the Shepherds. Millions of people. Second reason why this is selfish is because Lucina is willing to kill Robin if s/he is anyone else's loved one. It doesn't matter if they're her uncle/aunt, in-law, brother/sister-in-law, or a trusted friend. If Robin is not her mother or husband, they will die. It's incredibly selfish to demand other people sacrifice their loved one when you are not willing to so. That's what it comes off as.

The kicker, though, is that I wouldn't have a problem with Lucina's selfishness (and Chrom's, for that matter), if the story brought this up as faults in their character as rulers. A person who is responsible for the welfare of others cannot be selfish, they have to do what is best for their country, not what they want. Remember that Chrom wasn't meant to be Exalt, it was always Emmeryn. I think that Chrom's deficiencies as a ruler would've been an interesting thing to bring up to point out that he wasn't ready to take up the role of the Exalt and that he wasn't raised for this. But Awakening overlooks such flaws and presents them as endearing things that just show how important you, the avatar, are to everyone. Previous lord or royal characters like Leaf, Eirika, and Elincia weren't excused from making selfish decisions or being weak rulers, and Elincia even had the strength to sacrifice someone she loved to keep her country safe. So why are we expected to overlook other rulers not being able to make the best decisions for their country and the narrative not pointing it out as a flaw. We know the series has the potential to do it.

Again, if you like her and this aspect of her character, that's fine. I personally find it very selfish and found it dissatisfying that it wasn't presented as a proper flaw to her character.

Sort of on this topic, I don't really like any of the characters as waifu or husbando. When I play Awakening I just marry my favorite characters/whoever is the mother of my favorite characters or whoever can give me the funniest stat combinations. I don't care about these characters enough to say I have a favorite waifu or husbando in a story context or emotional context. So.

[saisymbolic]

My favorite husbando would actually have to be Yen'fay. The fact that he doesn't have a support with Say'ri - though I suppose they technically aren't siblings - was a bit of a let down; it's a little sad to think he lives the rest of his life in solitude in a universe he doesn't belong in. Walhart is a close second for marriage - the thought of him as a dad is absolute hilarity. Virion is third thanks in part to Heroes, but also because I think he is one of the better characters in Awakening.

As for my waifu, it's actually Maribelle. I personally found her charming, kind and amusing in most of her supports; her obsession with Lissa isn't actually obnoxious; and her "overly dignified lady" schtik isn't that bad, either. She works well enough as a unit that I don't hate her and I get to have Brady - one of the better, cuter second gen kids - as a son. Plus, she uses the word "strumpet" and that makes me smile a little too brightly. I'm not a fan of F!Morgan, but I can tolerate her for Maribelle. 

Edited May 9, 2017 by saisymbolic

[Interdimensional Observer]

I don't deal with the wifeypon and hubbypon thing.

Do know I'm with you @Sunwoo and anyone else who agrees that Chrom was brainless when it came to the final decision. Chrom should be an awful political leader judging from that decision. He doesn't have a single utilitarian bone in his body (not that you need, or should, have a full skeleton of them).

I do have one meaningful question to ask however, and treating this a general character discussion, I might as well include it:

I haven't read all of Tiki's supports, but is her relationship to Naga ever really brought up? And by that, I mean what does she think of Naga her mother? Tiki has probably zero memories of her mom, who after all sacrificed herself (shortly?) after she was born by tearing out her great fangs. Nonetheless, Naga is Tiki's mom, and she must have some thoughts about the woman who gave her life for the world's sake instead of spending her time with her daughter.

Similarly, I wonder what Tiki thinks of the fact she is the Divine Dragon Princess. Even though dragonkind has presumably declined to near oblivion and there surely isn't any true society (much less a prosperous one) for her to be a princess to.

Edited May 9, 2017 by Interdimensional Observer

[Arthur97]

I'm curious as to Tiki's relationship with Naga as well...plus, who on Earth is her dad?

As for Chrom and Lucina being selfish, yeah, they kind of are, but that makes them human. Besides, the whole point of the final arc is really defying the odds not with the logically best course of action (though if Lucina did kill Robin then they would be minus a tactician and still have Grima to contend with even if they had no way of knowing that). It's about overcoming the odds and finding a better way. It goes beyond pure logic. True, Awakening may not be deep, and it's lords may be kind of naive (a lot of them are: looking at you, Roy), but it doesn't have to be to be good. I like the fact that Lucina can't bring herself to do it. I think the DLC conversation shows a good part of her struggle if she marries Robin. How she struggles to put him before the mission, but eventually she does when push comes to shove. Really, it's a story of heart rather than logic.

Besides, it's not like they let Grima go free. 1000 years is a long time, and since they know that Grima will return, they may just be able to find a way to stop it.

Also, I don't particularly care for the "waifu" title, or that Lucina seems to get stuck as the waifu lord.

Edited May 10, 2017 by Arthur97

[Godhand]

Personally, I think Chrom and Lucina are great characters.

Lucina and Chrom are forgiven for their selfishness because the overarching theme of Awakening is hope, and the ability to change one's fate. This is seen multiple times throughout the story, and it is seen in things like Chrom and Lucina's battle quotes as well. The whole point of the story is that even if all seems to be lost, there is still a way to change your destiny. However, when Emmeryn dies, the story calls its own theme into question, and I believe Lucina also mentions that maybe it isn't possible to change one's fate. She also thinks this when Khan Basilio "dies" anyway despite her warnings. She begins to doubt herself, and she starts to think that no matter what she does, she won't be able to stop her world from descending into chaos. This is why she is so conflicted when she confronts Robin. She doesn't know whether killing a loved one will even save her world, so she is looking for any excuse not to do it, and she is desperately hoping that someone can restore her faith in the idea that anything can change. 

This is where Chrom plays an important role. Chrom is naive and selfish throughout the story, but it is important that he is. Chrom never gives up on the idea that destiny can be changed, and he helps his daughter rediscover this belief at the Robin confrontation scene. This is the climax of the story, and it is where the story's theme really comes to the forefront. Yes, Chrom is a bit selfish, but it's not as if he doesn't care about the world. He only refuses to let go of Robin because he never stops believing that fate can be changed. For Chrom, it's not a choice between Robin and the rest of the world; it is a choice between a world without Robin and a world with Robin. Chrom does not even entertain the idea that by leaving Robin alive, there is no hope of victory. 

The whole reason why Chrom and Lucina are selfish is because the game's theme is that you don't have to give up and simply do as fate expects you to do. They make their own fate, and this is seen to be successful when the Khans return from the dead and when Robin himself returns. The point of Awakening is that you don't have to follow a set path just because you think it's the only way, and that you must forge your own path if you want to be happy.

[Truffa]

For waifus my favourite one is Tiki, I have a thing for green-haired ladies, and the second one is Sumia.

But more important, where the hell is Priam in that poll!? I don't take any injustice, best husbando must be recognised, he has 2-3 supports so far and the dlc dialog and has better developement and more interesant than half of first gen, I can't accept this.

But second one is Basilio, I love his big brown arse, or Gangrel lol

[Crux]

Lucina. I loved the idea of her actions ultimately saving the world as a result of her loving the very person who was used to destroy it rather than killing them, and I appreciate that this was reflected in her judgement sequence. My head-canon for the pairing is that the specific "bond" that allows avatar Robin to overcome Grima in the Endgame as opposed to the Robin from the doomed future is the one that represents his love for Lucina, as his bonds with the first-gen characters would have existed in the original timeline wherein he was possessed anyway. I'll acknowledge though that this particular theme would apply to any of the second-gen characters that Robin S-Supports. Honorable mentions to Tiki, Olivia and Cherche.

Edited June 2, 2017 by Crux