Crafting a New Class List (fan thing / personal project)

[BANRYU]

Disclaimer: I'm not sure if this is the right subforum for this topic....? It might be better in Written Works, I'm honestly not sure, though I wanted to put it here since it's more about game balancing.

SO. That said. Basically, I'm taking it upon myself lately to create sort of a 'master' list of classes, with the intention of representing all the different class roles from across the series as much as possible. I also want to rearrange some of the promotion options to things that I feel make more sense; for instance, the Sacred Stones + Awakening promotions of Myrmidons -> Assassins and Mercenaries -> Bow Knights/Rangers are ones that I would swap, with the basis that 'assassin' is a more natural progression for a mercenary, and the skills utilized by Rangers are more in line with what wealthy samurai (usually the basis for myrmidons) historically practiced. I'm treating it as sort of a game design exercise, to create the 'ultimate' class lineup for a hypothetical future Fire Emblem (or maybe for personal use with like a fangame or DnD campaign or something).

The full lists will be in spoilers below; but before that, my 'rules' I'm attempting to stick to for the list are as follows:

1. Weapon types include sword, axe, lance, dagger, staff, fire magic, thunder magic, wind magic, dark magic, and light magic. (beast units/manaketes will be something I deal with later) A full list of weapons intended to go with this class system can be found here.
2. Tellius weapon triangles are used: Sword > Axe > Lance > Sword, Light > Dark > Anima > Light and Wind > Thunder > Fire > Wind within anima. Debating on including the magic weapons into a Fates/Heroes-style weapon triangle that gives them advantages on one another.
3. All classes are gender-neutral, anyone can be them.
4. All base classes have 3 promotion options instead of the usual 1-2. Promotions have further restrictions on them as well, requiring certain stat quantities to 'qualify' for the promotion in question: For instance, Archers' options (currently) are Sniper, Ranger/Bow Knight, and Warrior-- going Sniper would require a minimum amount of Skill, Warrior would require a minimum in Strength and maybe Defense, etc.
5. All promoted classes can be attained from up to 2 different base classes-- would like to try to make all promoted classes have 2 options of base classes that can be upgraded into, though might make some exceptions for class trees like dark mages (owing to the difficulty of the craft) and fliers (who require specific mounts). The quantity of base classes will largely be dependent on how many are needed to upgrade into all the promoted options I want to have-- in other words, the promoted classes are largely the basis.
6. Traditional weapon usage of classes may be modified for the list in the interest of the most balanced possible weapon distribution, as well as to make classes more unique when possible.
7. Some classes that share similar roles may be rolled into one or have new classes created from them as spiritual successors (though for the most part and with few exceptions I am trying to avoid making up new classes for the list).
8. All classes will have rebuilt stat spreads probably based on those in Fates (but not necessarily the same).

5/29/18 // Moved the list to a google doc for slightly easier viewing: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1BULlK1skm1Kk9iFNoz1zXckNErHom2OrD3iEaiA9mjI/edit

I think I'm getting to the point where I'm mostly happy with this, but any and all input is still welcome!

Edited May 29, 2018 by BANRYU

[BANRYU]

Annnnd all the main classes I'd thought about adding are in, so there we go. Just gonna bump this... and hope to get some input haha ;;

Feel free to suggest a class if you don't see one listed here (either in name or in spirit), or if you have some input as to nailing down any of the details I'm unsure about right now.

While that's (hopefully) happening I think Imma try to edit in a prospective weapon list...

Edited February 20, 2017 by BANRYU

[NekoKnight]

I wouldn't like a system where stats govern what you can promote into. All it would really mean is that some characters would never have that promotion option, even if it was technically part of their class tree.

How would you determine weapon level caps? Fates style where the class determines it, no matter the starting class or would you do it GBA style where the highest rank belongs to whatever you level up first? I think the Fates method give each class a more unique feeling (Blacksmith and Hero are not identical for this reason) but it can be pretty hampering when a base class doesn't use the primary weapon of the promotion (ex. Fighter to Hero).

[Ycine]

NekoKnight has a point. I don't like the idea of having Stats governing Promotion. I mean... I often get RNG screwed with my favorite characters... so having this kind of mechanic could completely "break" my hope for the said character.

As for the Classes now, I like your list a lot. Especially the mix of both Magic and Weapon. That's something I really dig. And my guess is that it would be amazing with a "double triangle" (just like Pokemon with the Starters). War Monk with Axe, Dark Knight with Sword and Sorcerer with Lance! But I would give War Monk Lances since it has a much more "holy" aspect than Axes (personal taste). However, I also like the Idea of having a Sorcerer with Dagger.

I think giving Bow to Villager is a good idea (common tool for hunting) but that doesn't fit at all with their listed Promotions. And even adding Great Merchant doesn't help at all.

[Jotari]

I see so many lists like this it might actually be wise to make a dedicated subforum for it. (While we're on the subject, check out mine here)

 

Anyway on this list specifically, I also independently noticed almost immediately the draw back of making stats determine promotion. It puts you at the complete mercy of the RNG which typically players would not enjoy. I also really don't see anything it actually adds in terms of gameplay. It's just an unnecessary limiting factor preventing you from doing something that was free before without actually providing any resource management or similar depth (unless stat boosters are absolutely everywhere).

You use Sky Knight as both a tier 1 and a tier 2 class.

Hard to really get a gauge for it since you've presented so many alternate options for weapons on each class. Makes it sort of feel half finished. I can say however that it doesn't seem like splitting up Anima like that is particularly useful. Games that did that in the past typically ignored light and dark magic, making it very rare and even enemy only. Essentially the anime triangle was the main magic triangle with light and dark being uncommon additions to it. Which evidently wouldn't be the case here since so many classes can promote to these units. And they also let almost every magic type have access to all elements, the split only serving to determine their default weapon ranks. Having essentially five magic types that are all balanced against each other and all essentially perform the same role with varying differences in mt and hit will lead to light and dark being near useless as they'd need to go pretty far into the extreme territory for stat focus in order to make each type feel unique. Their bonus effectiveness helps somewhat to differentiate them but I'm not sure it's enough.

[BANRYU]

Oh... well... hmm. Not exactly what I was looking for input on haha ;; (was hoping more for like... suggestions of which slashes to use etc.) BUT it seems this is an important issue so let me just clear it up.

10 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I wouldn't like a system where stats govern what you can promote into. All it would really mean is that some characters would never have that promotion option, even if it was technically part of their class tree.

How would you determine weapon level caps? Fates style where the class determines it, no matter the starting class or would you do it GBA style where the highest rank belongs to whatever you level up first? I think the Fates method give each class a more unique feeling (Blacksmith and Hero are not identical for this reason) but it can be pretty hampering when a base class doesn't use the primary weapon of the promotion (ex. Fighter to Hero).

9 hours ago, Ycine said:

NekoKnight has a point. I don't like the idea of having Stats governing Promotion. I mean... I often get RNG screwed with my favorite characters... so having this kind of mechanic could completely "break" my hope for the said character.

As for the Classes now, I like your list a lot. Especially the mix of both Magic and Weapon. That's something I really dig. And my guess is that it would be amazing with a "double triangle" (just like Pokemon with the Starters). War Monk with Axe, Dark Knight with Sword and Sorcerer with Lance! But I would give War Monk Lances since it has a much more "holy" aspect than Axes (personal taste). However, I also like the Idea of having a Sorcerer with Dagger.

I think giving Bow to Villager is a good idea (common tool for hunting) but that doesn't fit at all with their listed Promotions. And even adding Great Merchant doesn't help at all.

Okay lemme clarify this since I failed to sufficiently do so already haha ;; One, this system is designed with a tabletop / forum RPG setting in mind, one which would allow the player to choose their growths out of a set amount of stat points every level. This allows / requires players to build toward the type of character or promotion that they want, or simply to just do a build they like and receive the appropriate promotion options by extension. What's more is I planned for the stat requirements to be rather modest, such that potentially up to 2 promotions might be available by the time a unit reaches level 20. (If this system were being utilized in an actual fan game where the stats are in fact determined by RNG, I would make the cap relatively low and attainable for anyone whose growths aren't screwed in the stat in question, or remove it entirely, rest assured.)

I'd planned to work out the details later and just wanted to pin down what classes promote into what for the time being, but for the sake of example... Let's take the starting stat spread for an Archer (might modify these in the future but for the sake of example I'm just using Fates' base stats) :

17

HP | 5 Str |

0 Mag |

7 Skl |

5 Spe

| 2 Luk

| 4 Def

| 1 Res

| 5 Mov

So from this, I'd make the necessary thresholds for promotion be maybe 12 Str for a Warrior and 15 Skl for a Sniper. Maybe Rangers/Bow Knights have no requirements, since their stats are a little weaker, or maybe they just have slightly lower balanced caps or something. (One thing I thought of is that units who go from being unmounted to mounted might need to simply buy the mount to qualify but that's an idea/discussion for later) Hope that clears that up! Now then, onto the other input...

@NekoKnight TBH I'm not entirely sure about the weapon caps as of yet... It's not something I've given much thought to frankly, but it'll probably be something that gets added soon enough (more so now that we're discussing it haha). I do somewhat like the Fates method (maxing all like in Awakening doesn't appeal to me so much either), but what I'm thinking I might do is allow the player to somewhat determine what their own weapon caps are by whatever they max first (possibly inspired by my sadness that my Malig Knight Corrin couldn't use a Dragon spirit haha), where it sort of works like supports in the GBA games-- once you hit A in one weapon, the other can't get higher than a B. Maybe for units with triple weapons (just Arms Master and Great Knight in mine, I think), it would be the same, where you can get A-C-C, B-B-C, etc. Since I'm making the effort to avoid repeating weapon loadouts as much as possible (barring a few like the General and Wyvern Lord who are at least differentiated by other attirubutes), I might just go with the GBA method. But it's up in the air right now, and I'm open to suggestions.

@Ycine Thank you I'm glad you like them! =w= Yeah, I somewhat agree about the War Monk where using Lances seems like the most fitting option lore/flavor-wise. In that case, I think it will depend on whether I'm using Villager as a base class, since otherwise there are no other Light or Lance users to upgrade into it. And yeah, I didn't think about that, but that's a great point about the dual weapon/magic users being able to counter each other! xD I'll have to work out the balance of their magics along with their physical weapons, since as you can probably see, I'm not super sure about which magics certain units will be using haha ;; I do like the idea of some unit types having a specialization in specific types of anima magic, like the Darkfliers with Wind, etc. Right now I'm thinking the best option is to add the Battlemages and Barons, then make Druid / Sorc / Summoner all Shaman-only promotion classes (in which case I can probably safely give Sorcs daggers; the main reason they have anima as an option is so Mages can promote into them). That way Battlemages give Dark Knights a second base class (though if they're anima-specialized that might screw over the base unit if they use a different type of magic... so.... I'll have to consider how to deal with that).

Yeah, as much as I'd like to have Villager or Apothecary or something as another bow base class, I'm not thrilled at the idea of having three Bow-using base classes haha ;; the idea behind the villager was mainly to create a non-militant lance-using class so that promoting into units like the War Monk (assuming lances as their secondary) makes more sense. (Soldier -> War Monk, IMO, requires like an overly specialized backstory for it to fit... and I want to make the options as fitting/broad as possible for the base classes haha ;; )

2 hours ago, Jotari said:

I see so many lists like this it might actually be wise to make a dedicated subforum for it. (While we're on the subject, check out mine here)

Anyway on this list specifically, I also independently noticed almost immediately the draw back of making stats determine promotion. It puts you at the complete mercy of the RNG which typically players would not enjoy. I also really don't see anything it actually adds in terms of gameplay. It's just an unnecessary limiting factor preventing you from doing something that was free before without actually providing any resource management or similar depth (unless stat boosters are absolutely everywhere).

You use Sky Knight as both a tier 1 and a tier 2 class.

Hard to really get a gauge for it since you've presented so many alternate options for weapons on each class. Makes it sort of feel half finished. I can say however that it doesn't seem like splitting up Anima like that is particularly useful. Games that did that in the past typically ignored light and dark magic, making it very rare and even enemy only. Essentially the anime triangle was the main magic triangle with light and dark being uncommon additions to it. Which evidently wouldn't be the case here since so many classes can promote to these units. And they also let almost every magic type have access to all elements, the split only serving to determine their default weapon ranks. Having essentially five magic types that are all balanced against each other and all essentially perform the same role with varying differences in mt and hit will lead to light and dark being near useless as they'd need to go pretty far into the extreme territory for stat focus in order to make each type feel unique. Their bonus effectiveness helps somewhat to differentiate them but I'm not sure it's enough.

Yeah man it seems like a popular thing haha. And I'll check out yours as well! Thanks for showing interest here! x3

@ the Sky Knight thing ahhh you're quite right, my mistake. What happened there was I initially planned to use 'Sky Knight' as the base class name, decided to make a third Pegasus class and didn't know what to call it, so yoinked that name for the Promote and forgot to switch the base class back to 'Pegasus Knight'. Fixed now, my bad.

Yeah, don't get the wrong idea, I'd definitely call this project unfinished right now ;; Thus the reason for so many slashes and, tbh, my reason for posting here; I don't have as much time as I'd like to work on it during the day, so wanted to see if I could get some input to as sort of a mild crutch for my decision-making process and whatnot, honestly (I tend to be super indecisive until I get input on things, RIP me). Fortunately just making the topic has already given me some ideas of what to pin down, so there should be some growing certainty on some of these in the future.

Regarding the anima/magic topic: I think I get what you're saying...? For me personally, the varieties of magic in FE has always been one of the most fun and interesting parts of the game, so it's been kind of disappointing to see it gutted (at least in terms of variety and balance) in the last few games-- Awakening had one of my least favorite handlings of magic just because of how unbalanced they all were lol (obviously Celica's Gale being OP and all, fire essentially not being worth using over Thunder outside of Valflame, etc). Fates was better at balancing it and the variety of spells was cool, and I could forgive the lack of magic triangles more since magic itself fit into the system, but... RD was the closest to what I wanted for magic in the series, I think, so that's sort of what I wanted to try emulating while adding a little more to it to balance/differentiate each other more.

TBH I'm not entirely sure how Light and Dark are coming out as useless here, though...? It will probably help if I make the weapon list and actually list the effects of the spells in question, but... If nothing else, can they not counter one another in the traditional main magic WT? It's true that Light Magic will probably be the least focused upon, being most likely the weakest outside of or perhaps alongside Wind (TBH I wanted to sort of reel back the sort of power that Lucius had in FE7, for a monk he was too deadly haha), though the passive benefits could (I'm hoping) be worth using, and I'm planning on having monsters be a fairly common presence in whatever setup this is used for (not so much as in FE8 maybe but enough that maaaybe you wanna have one light magic user in the main party JIC).

As I said I should probably draw up the weapon list first, but in the meantime, I'm open to suggestions? I think you're basically saying that splitting up Anima is pointless, is that right?

[Jotari]

The reason I say Dark and Light seem like they could be useless is because if you're scaling them against all the other magics you need to drop their hit as you increase their might and vice versa. On a scale with five entries this will drop the hit of dark magic to practically unusable levels and likewise for the might of light mage. Unless dark mage has stats more in line with thunder magic and light has one more in line with wind magic in which case why even have separate types? Radiant Dawn got around this by basically not having Dark Magic (like it was there in principle just not in practise. I don't believe Micaiah can ever have weapon triangle advantage). At least that's the way I'm imaging the weapons would go. Can't say for sure without an actual list.

[NekoKnight]

I'm going to agree with Jotari and say that the magic system would be better if it was just Dark/Light/Anima. You can still have wind/fire/thunder themed spells within Anima, but it would be too much to create 5 separate elements. Like, instead of a whole school of magic that is effective vs Fliers (wind) just have one Anima spell that does the trick.

On the topic of magic, particularly if Malig Knights use Dark Magic, I think "Dark" Falcons should use light magic. Sorcerers are also kind of boring, in my opinion so I'd give Shamans Druid/Dark Knight/Malig Knight as their options.

I have some other commentary I'll add later.

[Ycine]

14 hours ago, BANRYU said:

Okay lemme clarify this since I failed to sufficiently do so already haha ;; One, this system is designed with a tabletop / forum RPG setting in mind, one which would allow the player to choose their growths out of a set amount of stat points every level.

Oh now that's explain a lot.

On the Weapon Rank subject, I'd choose the GBA system since it's (as cited) for a tabletop/forum RPG.

As for Magic, Jotari and NekoKnight said it all but I like having the three elements depicted too. Maybe arraging something around, Fire is effective agains Beast, Thunder against Armored unit and Wind against Flying one? Though this would make the Anima Magic wielder way too good (no weaknesses). 

Edited February 21, 2017 by Ycine

[PurpleKawaii]

SO, Idk if I'm entering the "debate" late, but whatever. So I saw that you where plotting in giving the Knights/Generals more RES. My opinion (key word: opinion) on this is that it is kinda of a bad idea, Knights/Generals have the role of being Physical tanks, with usually high strentgh. Giving them a higher RES would make they're main flaw speed. To compensate for their low RES there could be a skill with would block Magical Attacks. Another idea would be making a General Counterpart, like the unused Guardian Class in FE 3, which is basacly a General, but with higher RES and least DEF and maybe being able to use a kind of magic instead of axes (?).

Again this is just my oipinion. Sorry if this case was already debated. To lazy to read the hole thing

[BANRYU]

Okay I've done SOME updating in the OP, adding and shuffling a few other classes around... I ATTEMPTED to make some headway writing up the weapons list... (with the key word there being 'attempted'... My wife's computer absolutely despises me and completely undid literally everything I wrote-- TWICE-- so for the time being I'm saying fuck it and I'll do it later (got a lot of stuff on my plate right now and can't really spare the time to work on it OTL ;;; )

I will happily take any/all input, but for the moment the main pieces of input I'm looking for are on which classes should upgrade from/into others, which should exist if they're in limbo or not exist in the main list, and after that, weapon kits that they should have (if anyone happens to have any thoughts or opinions on it).

21 hours ago, Jotari said:

The reason I say Dark and Light seem like they could be useless is because if you're scaling them against all the other magics you need to drop their hit as you increase their might and vice versa. On a scale with five entries this will drop the hit of dark magic to practically unusable levels and likewise for the might of light mage. Unless dark mage has stats more in line with thunder magic and light has one more in line with wind magic in which case why even have separate types? Radiant Dawn got around this by basically not having Dark Magic (like it was there in principle just not in practise. I don't believe Micaiah can ever have weapon triangle advantage). At least that's the way I'm imaging the weapons would go. Can't say for sure without an actual list.

21 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

I'm going to agree with Jotari and say that the magic system would be better if it was just Dark/Light/Anima. You can still have wind/fire/thunder themed spells within Anima, but it would be too much to create 5 separate elements. Like, instead of a whole school of magic that is effective vs Fliers (wind) just have one Anima spell that does the trick.

On the topic of magic, particularly if Malig Knights use Dark Magic, I think "Dark" Falcons should use light magic. Sorcerers are also kind of boring, in my opinion so I'd give Shamans Druid/Dark Knight/Malig Knight as their options.

I have some other commentary I'll add later.

I hear what you guys are saying, and after examining the lists of preexisting Anima subtypes I'll admit I did find it somewhat to have an adequate amount of variety... However-- and I don't want you guys to think I don't value your opinions or anything, but-- I still want to attempt to make a case for each of them existing in their own right and having enough justification for doing so. I think my main thought is that having access to all the different effects of Anima as I've made them will make Anima mages potentially too versatile and overpowered, which is definitely something I want to avoid. This, actually, is what I hoped for the niche of Sages to be, actually-- as the sole unit type with access to all three types, and the respective advantages of each. 

As Jotari said it's hard to fully justify without the actual weapon list, but unfortunately my available time to work on it is spent for the time being x___x so I'll keep you guys updated in the future as that develops. Right now the plan is the model (based on... let's say... Fire magic) of Fire/basic spell = E / new tome = D / siege tome = B / preexisting stuff (IE Elfire, Bolganone, Fimbulvetr, Tornado, Thoron, Mjolnir etc.) for C+A / legendary weaps = S (though in the case of Mjolnir it seems to be the only legendary thunder tome so might need to think of something new for the Fates version of Mjolnir or another legendary weapon). And in the case of siege tomes, I'm attempting to come up with alternative effects for them in the event that I want to avoid using long-range magic altogether (IE: Bolting's effect being replaced with that of Superior Jolt from Awakening, or Purge dealing effective damage against Dark rather than simply having WTA). 

Light and Dark will follow more or less the same model, possibly with additional tomes/extra effects, but most likely it'll be one tome for each weapon rank... we'll see how it goes (Dark will be the hardest one to narrow down since 1) it's my favorite haha and 2) there's actually quite a lot of variety here). One thing I definitely don't want to do is make each respective weapon rank just stronger / slightly less accurate than the last, as that's one of the reasons Light magic is so boring-- so I definitely want to spice it up enough to justify not only Light magic not being boring, but preferably all the anima types as well. 

12 hours ago, Ycine said:

Oh now that's explain a lot.

On the Weapon Rank subject, I'd choose the GBA system since it's (as cited) for a tabletop/forum RPG.

As for Magic, Jotari and NekoKnight said it all but I like having the three elements depicted too. Maybe arraging something around, Fire is effective agains Beast, Thunder against Armored unit and Wind against Flying one? Though this would make the Anima Magic wielder way too good (no weaknesses). 

I considered the Tellius system for anima magic naturally, though I think I decided that was a little boring and wanted to develop it and spice it up a little beyond merely having each of them be effective on something... Thus the system I came up with for the three. I might be slightly guilty of putting realism before gameplay/balance (though not perfectly, since as my wife pointed out, lightning doesn't necessarily go for flying targets like Pokemon thinks it does, rather, it goes for grounded targets lol), but I did mainly want to give them some variety and not make them strictly 'effective against' tools. Wind and Fire retain this, but also have a 'not very effective' penalty against other unit types to compensate, while Thunder magic lacks effectiveness and is stronger and less accurate than the others (possibly being on par with Dark in terms of power? IDK yet though), but gains accuracy bonuses against other unit types, making it usable (if slightly risky) outside of those types, but still great at killing its intended targets (knights and wyvern riders mainly; pegasus units might suffer an ago penalty against it but their res makes it still less of a threat than Wind magic would be). 

Tl;dr I'm pretty happy with my ideas, and I'll admit I might be slightly too attached to them... I want to say I'm open to suggestions/criticism on the topic, but I realize my having more or less shot down all suggestions on the matter ;;;; I guess what I'm saying is I think more can be done than just what Tellius did... I appreciate it for introducing (or... err... reintroducing, I guess?) the Anima triangle mechanics, but I'm interested in seeing it develop beyond what it's been so far. I guess that's my main goal here. 

7 hours ago, PurpleKawaii said:

SO, Idk if I'm entering the "debate" late, but whatever. So I saw that you where plotting in giving the Knights/Generals more RES. My opinion (key word: opinion) on this is that it is kinda of a bad idea, Knights/Generals have the role of being Physical tanks, with usually high strentgh. Giving them a higher RES would make they're main flaw speed. To compensate for their low RES there could be a skill with would block Magical Attacks. Another idea would be making a General Counterpart, like the unused Guardian Class in FE 3, which is basacly a General, but with higher RES and least DEF and maybe being able to use a kind of magic instead of axes (?).

Again this is just my oipinion. Sorry if this case was already debated. To lazy to read the hole thing

Nah I don't think that's been touched upon yet, it's cool yo. (I totally understand there's a lot of tl;dr in here RIP) So my main thought with that was to justify using magics other than Wind against knights/armored units, such that strong wind-users couldn't overpower Knights' low Res... BUT thinking on it more, having a 'not very effective' penalty should be enough to deter that, and given that I'm adding a couple armored magic units (the Battlemage and Baron, who'll probably have higher-end Res themselves), it's probably safe to eschew the whole 'knights have better than average res' thing. So, I think I probably will take you up on that...

I guess another thought was justifying using Knights more...? Personally I've never felt super obligated to use them, since for all their good stats, their low movement and exploitable Res made them feel never really worth using to me. I think Wary Fighter in Fates was probably the best thing that's been done for them in a long while, but I hoped to make them feel more worthwhile despite how low their movement is, haha ;; I'll try to think of other ways to do that, though.

[Jotari]

1 hour ago, BANRYU said:

I hear what you guys are saying, and after examining the lists of preexisting Anima subtypes I'll admit I did find it somewhat to have an adequate amount of variety... However-- and I don't want you guys to think I don't value your opinions or anything, but-- I still want to attempt to make a case for each of them existing in their own right and having enough justification for doing so. I think my main thought is that having access to all the different effects of Anima as I've made them will make Anima mages potentially too versatile and overpowered, which is definitely something I want to avoid. This, actually, is what I hoped for the niche of Sages to be, actually-- as the sole unit type with access to all three types, and the respective advantages of each. 

Oh don't worry about that in the slightest. I'd hate to think you were taking my opinion too seriously. Your project, your feelings are what matter.

[NekoKnight]

For some of your other class assignments, I think it would be fitting if Arms Masters could promote from Soldier, Mercenary and Fighter. They use all three weapon types, so they ought to start as any of the three weapons.

Here's what I'd do with your infantry units:
Fighter: Berserker, Hero, Arms Master
Barbarian: Berserker, Warrior, Gryphon Rider (if that becomes a thing)
Mercenary: Hero, Swordmaster, Arms Master
Myrmidon: Swordmaster, Ranger, Dreadfigher
Soldier: Halberdier, Arms Master, Paladin
Knight: General, Greatknight, Baron
Archer: Sniper, Ranger, Warrior
Outlaw: Adventurer, Assassin, Sniper
Thief: Assassin, Dread Fighter/Rogue (?)

I don't know what you should do with Rogues because currently nothing else promotes to them. Maybe you could make another Dagger base class (Villager?) that promotes to Rogue/Vassal/???. You could make Knights promote to Halberdier instead of Baron (so Halberdier isn't exclusive to Soldiers) but Baron seems like it was made to be a Knight promotion.

Also, your Cavaliers currently promote to Dark Knights which makes them lose their lance proficiency. Perhaps you could instead have Sky Knight (Lance/Sword) as their 3rd option. Horsey getting wings isn't too much of a stretch is it?
 

Edited February 22, 2017 by NekoKnight

[BANRYU]

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 6:10 PM, Jotari said:

Oh don't worry about that in the slightest. I'd hate to think you were taking my opinion too seriously. Your project, your feelings are what matter.

Ahh thanks! I appreciate that! =w= Although asking for advice and then doing the opposite of what's suggested tends to be an... unfortunate habit of mine ;; so I try to be self-aware of when I may be doing that, haha ;;

On ‎2‎/‎21‎/‎2017 at 7:48 PM, NekoKnight said:

For some of your other class assignments, I think it would be fitting if Arms Masters could promote from Soldier, Mercenary and Fighter. They use all three weapon types, so they ought to start as any of the three weapons.

Here's what I'd do with your infantry units:
Fighter: Berserker, Hero, Arms Master
Barbarian: Berserker, Warrior, Gryphon Rider (if that becomes a thing)
Mercenary: Hero, Swordmaster, Arms Master
Myrmidon: Swordmaster, Ranger, Dreadfigher
Soldier: Halberdier, Arms Master, Paladin
Knight: General, Greatknight, Baron
Archer: Sniper, Ranger, Warrior
Outlaw: Adventurer, Assassin, Sniper
Thief: Assassin, Dread Fighter/Rogue (?)

I don't know what you should do with Rogues because currently nothing else promotes to them. Maybe you could make another Dagger base class (Villager?) that promotes to Rogue/Vassal/???. You could make Knights promote to Halberdier instead of Baron (so Halberdier isn't exclusive to Soldiers) but Baron seems like it was made to be a Knight promotion.

Also, your Cavaliers currently promote to Dark Knights which makes them lose their lance proficiency. Perhaps you could instead have Sky Knight (Lance/Sword) as their 3rd option. Horsey getting wings isn't too much of a stretch is it?
 

Okay, much appreciated! So first off, one of the things I'm trying to do (that probably also wasn't well-explained in the OP because I wasn't sure how to describe it RIP sorry ;; ) is use promoted classes no more than twice-- ideally there are only two base classes that upgrade into any one promoted class. If this proves to be unviable I could just let it drop and go with a couple more prevalent units, but my hope was for all of the classes to be more or less equally widespread-- with the only real exceptions so far being the Flier and Dark Mage promote options, who just have the one base class they come off of (not that I'm opposed to some of them having more than one base class option, IE Malig Knights). What I might do instead is simply trim down the pools of the base classes whose promotions are exclusive to them... but I kinda really wanted Wyvern Lords + WyvKnights + Malig Knights all available ;;; I'll have to consider further whether my bias on that is justified or not.

In any case, your logic for the Arms Masters is solid and I'll consider going that route if I'm having trouble with them. TBH though I'm treating them mainly as a filler class right now, since their variable weapon options make them good for that once I nail other promotion options down. (even if I end up using the Arms Master for only two base classes' promotions I do definitely want to try to make sure they're not two units that use the same starting weapon, IE Merc + Myrm; a sword class + lance class or etc. would be preferable for the sake of variety) @ Myrmidons -> Dreadfighters I will probably do that since that seems the most fitting. If Myrms are a higher res class in my setup, then Dreadfighters would be the natural progression of that aspect of them as well. So I think I'll solidify that one (Alm being a Merc and later a DF was the main basis for Mercs as an option, though I just remembered that Mercs and Myrms are both in that class tree so whatever haha).

Rogues... Hmm... Yeah I've been struggling to figure out if they should be a standalone promotion (something I'm trying to avoid outside the aforementioned class trees), or if I should introduce another dagger class-- like an unpromoted butler/servant or something, otherwise ninjas feel kinda redundant to add-- or maybe instead remove the rogue entirely, since its main niche of utility/lockpicking/etc. is fulfilled plenty fine by Adventurers and a few other classes. Of course, that would make Vassal their invariable third promotion option, and I'm not super thrilled with the notion of a thief becoming a maid/butler...? It just doesn't fit like a cleric or something else would... So yeah... that's something I'll have to work out at some point;; it's tricky haha. One idea could be to just rename the 'Thief' class TO 'Rogue'-- since that makes the whole Vassal promotion somewhat more viable...? I guess??

Yeah, Knights' third promotion option is a tough call. As mentioned I def want Halberdier to have another base class option to promote into it, and using Knights would not only let them grow out of the restrictions of armor, but would allow the Baron as a promotion option for regular Mages as well... (and since I'm not super thrilled with the idea of having Mages promote to Dark Knights or Sorcs that might well be my best option there) As cool as Knight -> Baron would be that might be the best allocation of classes there. Otherwise, Villagers seem like the only appropriate units that could upgrade into Halberdiers, and I'd prefer to avoid adding another class for that if I can afford to work with what I've got.

Regarding the Dark Knight thing, honestly Cavs losing lances is a small problem in my mind; Cavaliers are the only base class with multiple weapon specialties, and IMO restricting them to both of those is sort of boring... but honestly, Ares being a Dark Knight in the Awakening spotpass DLC was the inspiration for this decision, and in some way, sort of the inspiration for the expanded triple promotion options, haha. Besides, the thematics are fairly consistent between Cavs and DKs, and it's an alternate aesthetic progression to the Paladin and GK that I quite like. So... while yeah, I think promoting to Sky Knights isn't totally out of the question as a possibility due to the similar skills involved, I'm kinda attached to this idea haha ;;

Also, I'm strongly debating giving Sky Knights bows to emulate the otherwise-missing Kinshi Knights.

Edited February 24, 2017 by BANRYU

[PurpleKawaii]

OK I'm not reading all of this

So talking about The limbo class Dark Mage:

- I know this is thinking outside the box, but how about Dark Mages ( Not Shamans) be weak against Dark Magic itself? (The same advantage as Bows VS Fliers) This idea comes of how Dark Magic sometimes posesses the wielder's soul making them a Body with no reaction or feeling. 

-To make them different then shamans, Dark Mages could be able to power up other Tomes, like giving them more might, ya know sharing the POWER OF KNOWLEDGE

-As you said they could promote to the Summoner class.

-Dark Mages could have better stats over all, but the player would problaby only able to get one near the end of the game... OR (More thinking outside the box) The player could convert a Shaman to become a Dark Mage (cause more power) with a special item (Hard to get) Witch would explain the weakness of Dark Magic and better stats. 

-Dark Mages could also be able to use Anima magic (If only one, problaby Fire) (If two, problaby Fire and Thunder) (WIND HATER OVER HERE) Witch would give them more type coverage then the Shaman class.

That is all 

 

[BANRYU]

Okay, I've updated the OP with some stuff for Dark magic in the weapons list... It's my favorite and I have the most ideas for it so might as well OTL ;; I currently have more than one tome listed for a couple weapon ranks, but most likely I'll narrow it down to just the best/most balanced/interesting tomes unless I can think of an equal number of additional tomes for the other types of magic (frankly I doubt it since I'm pretty unoriginal and mainly went with preexisting tomes/effects for the Dark tomes lmao.... but... we'll see). I'll keep working on these bit by bit when I have the chance.

On ‎2‎/‎22‎/‎2017 at 8:27 AM, PurpleKawaii said:

OK I'm not reading all of this

So talking about The limbo class Dark Mage:

- I know this is thinking outside the box, but how about Dark Mages ( Not Shamans) be weak against Dark Magic itself? (The same advantage as Bows VS Fliers) This idea comes of how Dark Magic sometimes posesses the wielder's soul making them a Body with no reaction or feeling. 

-To make them different then shamans, Dark Mages could be able to power up other Tomes, like giving them more might, ya know sharing the POWER OF KNOWLEDGE

-As you said they could promote to the Summoner class.

-Dark Mages could have better stats over all, but the player would problaby only able to get one near the end of the game... OR (More thinking outside the box) The player could convert a Shaman to become a Dark Mage (cause more power) with a special item (Hard to get) Witch would explain the weakness of Dark Magic and better stats. 

-Dark Mages could also be able to use Anima magic (If only one, problaby Fire) (If two, problaby Fire and Thunder) (WIND HATER OVER HERE) Witch would give them more type coverage then the Shaman class.

That is all 

 

Haha sorry I know it's a lot ;; don't worry I wouldn't want you to waste your time unduly =3=

These are some interesting ideas, although it seems like a lot of new ideas and effects to properly juggle and balance... For the most part, the aim of my little project is to sort of build off/develop/fine-tune preexisting classes and systems, combining and mixing them when I can, but I'll take it into consideration for sure! Thanks for sharing the idea!

Edited February 24, 2017 by BANRYU

[Ycine]

 

8 hours ago, BANRYU said:

 

Okay, I've updated the OP with some stuff for Dark magic in the weapons list... It's my favorite and I have the most ideas for it so might as well OTL ;; I currently have more than one tome listed for a couple weapon ranks, but most likely I'll narrow it down to just the best/most balanced/interesting tomes unless I can think of an equal number of additional tomes for the other types of magic (frankly I doubt it since I'm pretty unoriginal and mainly went with preexisting tomes/effects for the Dark tomes lmao.... but... we'll see). I'll keep working on these bit by bit when I have the chance.

 

Gespenst all day as an S Dark Tome. Also, I like Eclipse to be a Siege Tome. And overall, what you're doing with Dark Tomes seems fair to me.

[Dragrath]

Ohh Someone else who has tried to make their own class list variation nice! If you make a sub forum for these I'd be glad as I would love to compare and also show off my variant

Now as the magic system is one of your current areas of difficulty The way I justified each of the five types of magic was to give each school unique perks shared by all magic in that school.

Light for instance is all about bypassing skills and the like that would interfere with the magic and would rarely ever miss. In exchange it would have the lowest Might values of every magic with no spell exceeding 10 might 

Wind carries the usual anti air properties

Fire is the basic magic which all others are scaled off of

Thunder as a category carries a higher crit modifier just like the killer weapons in fates 

Dark spells would all do strange and weird things If possible even flux(the basic dark tome) would have a special effect of variable might hit and crit for instance

I admit it is a WIP (more so than yours ) but hey maybe it will be enough to inspire you or what not. To be honest I am running a different system regarding uses and spells. Magic would have a set number of uses per map though there would be rare consumables that could restore uses. Fells more realistic to me (if that is possible in a world w/ magic XD) Spell books and staves would have set charges but in exchange could be made stronger so their tactical value jumps(but anything C+ ranked among magic wouldn't really be suitable for wanton use in general combat)

I also brought weight back into equation but it would only affect how much stuff you could carry. Considering my heavily used characters in every FE game end up having 5+ weapons each I figured enough is enough :P

As for some of the limbo class of villager My variant of villager has no single weapon associated with it but instead they can use any of the physical weapon types with E-D proficiency They would be able to promote into any infantry class that they have D rank proficiency in once they reach that proficiency and level 10 (the villager level cap)

(i.e. a villager's promotion would be based on weapon rank rather than level There would be a magical equivalent as well FYI)

Edited February 25, 2017 by Dragrath
more detail

[BANRYU]

On ‎2‎/‎24‎/‎2017 at 1:51 AM, Ycine said:

Gespenst all day as an S Dark Tome. Also, I like Eclipse to be a Siege Tome. And overall, what you're doing with Dark Tomes seems fair to me.

Haha duly noted. xD I like Gespenst too but Gleipnir is also close to my heart so it's a tough call =w= though Ragnarok is debatably the most intense powerful and climactic of them haha argh I'm indecisive ;;

I'll keep it in mind regarding Eclipse, though I've been strongly debating getting rid of Siege tomes in general in favor of other/more interesting effects, so... I suppose we'll see .3. I am pretty fond of a couple of the ideas I have listed as replacements for the siege tomes, like Bolting's effect being replaced by Superior Jolt from Awakening (though I'll have to give it some Fates-style drawbacks) and the skill/accuracy boost for Eclipse... although keeping Eclipse's effect as a regular 1-2 range tome might be fine as well.

19 hours ago, Dragrath said:

Ohh Someone else who has tried to make their own class list variation nice! If you make a sub forum for these I'd be glad as I would love to compare and also show off my variant Ahaha thanks dude! xD Yeah you should do it, go for it!

Now as the magic system is one of your current areas of difficulty The way I justified each of the five types of magic was to give each school unique perks shared by all magic in that school. Yep, that's what I'm trying to do as well as you can probably see! I won't bother going into detail since I'd just be repeating myself from the OP though EDIT: boy that was a lie wasn't it

Light for instance is all about bypassing skills and the like that would interfere with the magic and would rarely ever miss. In exchange it would have the lowest Might values of every magic with no spell exceeding 10 might 

Wind carries the usual anti air properties Yep, I'm trying to think of additional possible effects for it as well since otherwise it's kind of overly-specialized/underpowered; that wouldn't be so bad except that my system allows for the possibility of mages who only use wind magic ;; thus, what I'm considering is making Wind able to double easier than the other tomes, either via Wt or speed bonuses etc. I also like the idea of Ice magic being a subset of Wind that is either effective against Fire or reverses the weapon triangle or something, which somewhat offsets its weaker capabilities overall and gives it more utility, I think.

Fire is the basic magic which all others are scaled off of -nod nod- I wanted it to be more or less the average as well... I did give it the anti-armor niche ofc, though I'm wondering if that's redundant at this point...

Thunder as a category carries a higher crit modifier just like the killer weapons in fates Yep higher crit, lower hit... I haven't written any effects in yet but I'll probably give all the thunder tomes SOME amount of crit, but pretty hefty accuracy penalties so that the user either needs to have high skill to offset the risk of missing or be attacking flying/armor units, haha. Being that it's typically shown as being pretty strong and with a chance of crits I thought low accuracy would be a good way to offset that, and boosting it against specific units would help as well (though even on Peg Knights it's probably still not doing much damage when it DOES hit so... that seems balanced to me I guess....??

Dark spells would all do strange and weird things If possible even flux(the basic dark tome) would have a special effect of variable might hit and crit for instance

I admit it is a WIP (more so than yours ) but hey maybe it will be enough to inspire you or what not. To be honest I am running a different system regarding uses and spells. Magic would have a set number of uses per map though there would be rare consumables that could restore uses. Fells more realistic to me (if that is possible in a world w/ magic XD) Spell books and staves would have set charges but in exchange could be made stronger so their tactical value jumps(but anything C+ ranked among magic wouldn't really be suitable for wanton use in general combat) You know, that's a pretty cool idea, actually. I've always thought that Tomes having limited uses made more sense than any of the other weapons with durability, since presumably their pages or magical energy or something gets used up in battle... I DO prefer Fates' lack of weapon durability in general, though the notion that each magic weapon would have 'x uses per map' that recharges afterward, or needs to be recharged manually through some use of resources, is a neat idea. I just might borrow that, thanks for sharing!

I also brought weight back into equation but it would only affect how much stuff you could carry. Considering my heavily used characters in every FE game end up having 5+ weapons each I figured enough is enough :P Yeah TBH I was considering doing something like this as well, since it seems nonsensical/impractical to carry the max quantity of weapons around lol. I thought maybe carrying too many weapons might give negative speed/defense/movement modifiers, and that'd make units like the Master of Arms have more of a niche since presumably being in that class also involves being trained to carry a lot of weapons around, and thus, have lower penalties for carrying lots of weapons haha. I'll keep thinkin' on it as far as individual weapons go, but I do like that idea in general.

As for some of the limbo class of villager My variant of villager has no single weapon associated with it but instead they can use any of the physical weapon types with E-D proficiency They would be able to promote into any infantry class that they have D rank proficiency in once they reach that proficiency and level 10 (the villager level cap) Yeah that makes sense, where they're sort of acting like a trainee for any given weapon in question. That's a cool idea. In my case, if Villagers are used they'll most likely be acting as a non-militant lance class to upgrade into units like the War Monk, Great Master, etc. but as it is I actually want to try to avoid using them as such if possible since there are so many lance classes in my list already.

(i.e. a villager's promotion would be based on weapon rank rather than level There would be a magical equivalent as well FYI) The magic version could be the Pupil, like Ewan maybe?

Thanks for the input/suggestions, comments in green haha.

 

Actually I'm strongly debating making a separate topic for my weapons list since that seems to be derailing the topic from the main discussion I was looking for somewhat lol (don't get me wrong, this is good discussion and I can totally use it, but might be better to make it a separate topic).

Edited February 25, 2017 by BANRYU

[Dragrath]

Yeah I can understand weapons discussion being separate SO focusing on classes the thing that bothers my OCD is that the system has an uneven amount of users for each promoted  type of weapon and magic.(Yes I know I'm weird XD)(My view point comes from the view of units starting as villagers and promoting based on what they reach D rank with mounted classes come separately)

Now What I really like about your system is the branching class tree with 3 promotion options instead of the normal two. It adds more variety which is nice(I did something similar but only for mounted/armored classes) Only suggestion I have to add here is if you have difficulty differentiating the Wyvern Lord and Wyvern Knight have you considered making the Knight armored? That was what I did (promoting from either Knight or Wyvern Rider) Other than that your list looks good! (Mine is super flier heavy w/ 4 flying mount types XD)

I can understand how you feel regarding the civilians I figured they would be useful however in case noncombatants are needed. By default all would probably be equipped with "Tools" that serve as a equivalent for joke weapons(i.e utility knife/meat cleaver/wood axe/pitch fork/hunting bow ect.) that way they wouldn't be totally defenseless but effectively defenseless :P

If you want to make this another topic I'm game :D (I don't exactly know where one should go)

Edited February 25, 2017 by Dragrath

[BANRYU]

28 minutes ago, Dragrath said:

Yeah I can understand weapons discussion being separate SO focusing on classes the thing that bothers my OCD is that the system has an uneven amount of users for each promoted  type of weapon and magic.(Yes I know I'm weird XD)(My view point comes from the view of units starting as villagers and promoting based on what they reach D rank with mounted classes come separately)

Now What I really like about your system is the branching class tree with 3 promotion options instead of the normal two. It adds more variety which is nice(I did something similar but only for mounted/armored classes) Only suggestion I have to add here is if you have difficulty differentiating the Wyvern Lord and Wyvern Knight have you considered making the Knight armored? That was what I did (promoting from either Knight or Wyvern Rider) Other than that your list looks good! (Mine is super flier heavy w/ 4 flying mount types XD)

I can understand how you feel regarding the civilians I figured they would be useful however in case noncombatants are needed. By default all would probably be equipped with "Tools" that serve as a equivalent for joke weapons(i.e utility knife/meat cleaver/wood axe/pitch fork/hunting bow ect.) that way they wouldn't be totally defenseless but effectively defenseless :P

If you want to make this another topic I'm game :D (I don't exactly know where one should go)

Yeah no I definitely hear you-- a part of me appreciates Tellius' class system for that reason, where they're very balanced and symmetrical when it comes to their classes' weapon distribution... But even though I like that, I also see the practical/realistic reasons for certain classes having different weapons, so I decided to go more traditional for that reason. (Although, that reason IS the main reason I'm deliberating on axes VS lances for wyvern riders, even though I prefer lances by far personally lol)

Regarding the Wyvern Knight VS Lord discussion, I know I haven't listed rough stat spreads for promote classes yet but my plan was for the Knight to be a speedy, skillful class, somewhat in line with the Griffon Riders in Awakening and IIRC the WKs in Sacred Stones (though I never got far enough in that game to see them yet ;; will eventually ofc), while the WyvLords would be the more traditional tanky units that WLs usually are. The main differentiation between WKs and Pegasus units like Falcoknights would probably be the emphasis on Strength/Defense VS resistance and maybe something like Luck... though I do want to try to balance them out and make them differentiated enough. I don't know if meshing Armored units with Wyvern units would work TOO well with the magic system I have in place, and besides that, I always reasoned that even tanky units like Wyvern Lords couldn't be TOO heavily armored so they can be more easily carried by their mounts.

The villager thing is a cute idea. xD

[Dragrath]

Oh I understand your mentality Yeah to be honest the name similarity was why I went with that I kinda tried to change up thinsg with the mounts

My variation has four flying mounts each with its advantages and disadvantages First note that my system would see con return regarding rescuing/pairing(not sure if latter would  be included but if it was it would require a skill)

Certain skills would be locked to mounted units :Canto, Galeforce, Lunge(only works against infantry), Trample(only works on infantry allows traveling  through a single enemy occupied space. against most units it Gives free attack before finishing remaining move) etc.

-Horses-mobility[7/8](+con bonus)-can start with any weapon  excluding daggers) suffer enhanced terrain penalties

-Pegasi mobility[8/9]-Start with lances- As usual they focus on speed and resistance Harsh weight penalty(Con & Defense) but in exchange gain res and speed(always flying)

-Wyverns-mobility[6/7]-Start with axes-(note foot units are [5/6]) (high strength and defense at the cost of res and speed)(always count as flying)

-Gryphons-mobility[7/8]-starts with swords- balanced stats +skill small con penalty can fly short distances but if over plain spaced can land

-Giant Bird(*basically the Kinshi if starting as a mount :D)-mobility[7/8]-starts with bows- kinda frail on both defenses but in exchange very fast accurate with innate crit bonus. basically anti air units

pure mages lack a mount but can gain warp(Allows certain promoted magic units to teleport to an ally up to (magic) spaces away) and or ignore terrain penalties(an option shared with rouges and other unarmored classes) 

also debating a spider mount all about scaling walls for assassins... web snare would be a active skill of theirs

Does your system include skills?

[BANRYU]

1 hour ago, Dragrath said:

Does your system include skills?

Boy I was tryna tag you but for some reason it wouldn't work with your name. :0 Maybe my computer was acting up. ANYWAY

Yeah I was planning to utilize a skill system, but I definitely want to give less of a focus to switching around to a bunch of different classes like Fates and Awakening had... Definitely something closer to Tellius is what I have in mind, but the options I'm considering are: 

• Tellius system (kinda) : each unit has one primary skill that characterizes them. If units are player-made, personal skills will need to be balanced alongside both player stats, class, etc-- for instance, a particularly good skill might come at the cost of a few base stat points or something I dunno (would definitely be the most intensive and difficult to balance so kinda ehh don't want this lol)
• Heroes system: three total skills, where one is either movement or proc-based and two are passive; each kit would be character-specific, which could allow players to pick 1-2 extra base class options to reclass to or something
• Fates system: the same, just with reclassing disallowed-- units are locked to the skills in their base class and promotion option (easy, but boring)

should probably add this stuff to the OP at some point haha. 

Yeah, I also wanted to utilize Griffins and something like Kinshi because they're cool! But I don't like the idea of mounted units switching mounts upon promotion (thus why my fliers' upgraded classes are all based on the mount of the base class), and I have limited infantry units that could upgrade into these other fliers.... ;; Still tryna figure it out. 

[Jotari]

2 hours ago, BANRYU said:

Boy I was tryna tag you but for some reason it wouldn't work with your name. :0 Maybe my computer was acting up. ANYWAY

Yeah I was planning to utilize a skill system, but I definitely want to give less of a focus to switching around to a bunch of different classes like Fates and Awakening had... Definitely something closer to Tellius is what I have in mind, but the options I'm considering are: 

• Tellius system (kinda) : each unit has one primary skill that characterizes them. If units are player-made, personal skills will need to be balanced alongside both player stats, class, etc-- for instance, a particularly good skill might come at the cost of a few base stat points or something I dunno (would definitely be the most intensive and difficult to balance so kinda ehh don't want this lol)
• Heroes system: three total skills, where one is either movement or proc-based and two are passive; each kit would be character-specific, which could allow players to pick 1-2 extra base class options to reclass to or something
• Fates system: the same, just with reclassing disallowed-- units are locked to the skills in their base class and promotion option (easy, but boring)

should probably add this stuff to the OP at some point haha. 

Yeah, I also wanted to utilize Griffins and something like Kinshi because they're cool! But I don't like the idea of mounted units switching mounts upon promotion (thus why my fliers' upgraded classes are all based on the mount of the base class), and I have limited infantry units that could upgrade into these other fliers.... ;; Still tryna figure it out. 

Both Kinshi and Griffon promote from a more generic tier 1 unit. They are both birds after all

[Dragrath]

@BANRYU I see I'm not the only one bothered by mount changes on promotion :) Yeah I always found that aspect to be too much in conflict with the supports which tend to focus on the mount/rider bond and the likes. 

With regards to the skill system I feel you I too feel that reclassing is a bit too much in the newer games. Personally I am more of a fan of a hybrid between the Tellius system and Fates/Awakening system with a few tweaks. Classes would come with skills split into two types(class skills(locked to class line only i.e. steal capture canto galeforce) and general skills which could also be obtained by scrolls that would be either bought found or ripped from the minds of captive enemies through more questionable means... Additionally supports would allow skills to be shared between allied units(however the limit of how many supports you could get would restrict this) On top of that every unit would have a personal skill which really would be from a shared pool of more boring skills(+x to stat and what not) for nameless soldier A's and Real skills for portrait enemies i.e. Playable characters and bosses/minibosses.

The advantage of that is you could give skills you acquire to units of your choice 

One of my more crazy ideas is where everyone would have their base class line but would have the option of a sub class(obtained probably through at item) which could give additional weapon options and slightly changes growths) The sub class could be changed(with changes serving as modifiers towards secondary weapons and  but the primary would be fixed. These would be necessary to transition from a magic or physical class to hybrid for instance. It is a WIP honestly this thread is where the idea popped into my head so it really is new but could be really interesting...