Changing Mounts On Promotion Really Doesn't Bother Me

[Jotari]

Continuing on my flying class opinion gathering train here (though this one could potentially cover non fliers).

So one thing I've seen quite a few people mention over the years is that they don't like seeing characters change mounts upon promotion. It's not entirely unreasonable to see why given how a few characters mention their mounts in conversation and even name them. However for me that's a pretty minor issue compared to the diversity of class and aesthetic that arises from it. It's also not like it's been a particular taboo of the series, having been present since the very first game and always appearing whenever branched promotions are a thing. Hell I could even buy that the characters are changing mounts in the games with linear promotions given the change in size and addition of potential horns on Falcon Knights. Add to that is the fact that, while a soldier might get particularly attached to one mount, they'd hardly be expected to keep it throughout their entire career and instead swap it out for a more fitting one depending on its age, their relative wealth and how much armour they end up wearing. Of course these tend to be magical flying mounts with extended lifespans so that's an issue which could easily be ignore.

So I really don't have a problem with people having an opposing opinion to mine on this issue, but I do wonder how many other people share my view on the matter. I only ever see people complain about mounts changing. Is that because people who are fine with it just don't feel the need to bring it up? Or is it because I'm in the minority? Vote and discuss.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Jotari

[Nobody]

it only bothers a little me if the character has an emotional atachment to the mount, like Cherche and Minerva or Sophie and Avel. Otherwise, I do not care at all.

[RedEyedDrake]

Yes, because changing mounts means losing the bond between the the rider and the previous mount, as well as everything that comes with said bond. So why would you ever do it unless it is strictly necessary?

[KMT4ever]

For a normal promotion I don't really care. It's generally a minor aesthetic change, with certain exceptions like Wyvern Rider -> Griffon Rider and Pegasus Knight -> Wyvern Knight. What has recently annoyed me is mounts in relation to reclassing. It can make supports extremely nonsensical and leads to scenes like Camilla offering you a ride on her wyvern when walking up to the Sevenfold Sanctuary despite all of you being on foot (which is itself silly).

[NekoKnight]

Not so subtle attempt at getting feedback for custom class tree, thread #7876.

I care most when they are the flying mounts because it seems more often a thing that those riders have a special connection with their animal. It's especially jarring when the mount is nothing like the previous, such as Pegasus Knight to Wyvern Knight. Horses rarely get much attention at all and realistically, a career soldier is going to go through several horses, whether that means the animal died or is just resting.

 

[Flee Fleet!]

I don't really care.

 

I just consider the mount to be promoted as well, because duh, every character in every FE game magically has their whole appearance change through some weird magic transformation thing, so I'm not surprised that the mounts "upgraded" as well. 

[Koumal8]

  It doesn't bother me in the least. In a realistic settings every cavalryman would have AT LEAST two steeds since mounts are liable to get crippled or killed or you might want to switch steed mid-battle once one of the two gets tired during a lull etc... The attachment that some FE characters show towards their mounts, while not at all unrealistic, does not necessarily clash with changing mounts. I mean, we're talking about the game series that has a freaking 4-man-army storm a castle and WIN. If I can accept that then I can make up whatever I want to justify changing mounts. 

[Azz]

It depends.

Like in FEA, I tend to go Griffon for Gerome since it makes sense with his character. I mean he came back to the past so Minerva could be free and wouldn't have to fight.

For FESS, I make Tana a Wyvern Knight cause she tends to get with Cormag and I HC that Cormag trains he on how to ride one.

As for FESD and NM, I tend to make Shiida and Palla Falco Knights cause favourtism, but I don;t mind them going Draco Knight.

[Jedi]

3 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Not so subtle attempt at getting feedback for custom class tree, thread #7876.

I care most when they are the flying mounts because it seems more often a thing that those riders have a special connection with their animal. It's especially jarring when the mount is nothing like the previous, such as Pegasus Knight to Wyvern Knight. Horses rarely get much attention at all and realistically, a career soldier is going to go through several horses, whether that means the animal died or is just resting.

 

Which is something that Berwick Saga does really well, you have to replace your horses on a fairly regular basis because they have their own HP and stuff. 

[Jotari]

4 hours ago, NekoKnight said:

Not so subtle attempt at getting feedback for custom class tree, thread #7876.

You'd think so but the prevailing opinion isn't actually going to change my mind on anything regarding that. I'm just curious to see what the prevailing opinions actually are.

[Magical Glace]

There are times when it seems absurdly out of character (Cherche's the best example I can think of) so overall, I don't like it.

[The Malign Knight]

I don't mind it. Sure, It's strange seeing characters like Cherche talking about their mounts when they are on foot or have a  completely different Mount, but  - overall - It doesn't annoy me at all.

[Extrasolar]

I never liked the "Pegasus Knights inexplicably promote to Wyvern Riders" thing from the Archanea games, simply because it's inexplicable in-universe for a variety of reasons.

So once you've trained for what must be years to form a bond with this Pegasus, to the point that you can ride it into battle...suddenly you're abandoning it and riding a wyvern, which presumably takes just as much training to break in as a war mount, if not more? Training a warhorse is a long process of desensitizing it to the sounds, sights, and whatnot of battle, as well as training it to respond to its rider's commands in a wealth of sensory stimulation, and as a Pegasus is a flying horse, I imagine it would be much of the same.

Granted, you could argue that the changed mount has already been trained by someone else, but what about the rider, who presumably has no experience guiding the new mount?

Bleh, it just doesn't make much sense.

It's much of the same for any mount change later in the series for me. That's why I never much used the Griffon Rider or Kinshi Knight promotions for units riding other mounts.

[saisymbolic]

Meh, it doesn't really bother me. I just head!canon that the rider is giving their usual steed a break from all the fighting, while learning the ropes of a new class in the process.

[Koumal8]

9 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Cut

  Postmen of the Roman Empire rode multiple random horses that they found in dedicated stables along their path when delivering messages all across the empire. Once you learn to ride, you can ride every horse. Provided it has been previously trained. As was the case for warhorses.

  However, i must admit that between characters changing mounts and footies getting a mount (see fates and the shared Kinshi Knight promotion for Archer and Sky Knight) I prefer the former one. Also, do you consider FE13 pegs promoting to Dark Falcon as "changing mounts"? Personally, I always interpreted it as the ridef being "imbued with magic": therefore the rider can now use magic, while steed gets "magical properties" and a more magical look.

  But then you reclass him to Falco once you have GF for Lancefaire and EVERYTHING IS MOOT AGAIN YEAH.

[Extrasolar]

9 minutes ago, Koumal8 said:

  Postmen of the Roman Empire rode multiple random horses that they found in dedicated stables along their path when delivering messages all across the empire. Once you learn to ride, you can ride every horse. Provided it has been previously trained. As was the case for warhorses.

  However, i must admit that between characters changing mounts and footies getting a mount (see fates and the shared Kinshi Knight promotion for Archer and Sky Knight) I prefer the former one. Also, do you consider FE13 pegs promoting to Dark Falcon as "changing mounts"? Personally, I always interpreted it as the ridef being "imbued with magic": therefore the rider can now use magic, while steed gets "magical properties" and a more magical look.

  But then you reclass him to Falco once you have GF for Lancefaire and EVERYTHING IS MOOT AGAIN YEAH.

 

 

Horses. Riding a horse is not much different from riding another horse. Now, riding a Pegasus...and then riding a wyvern? Um, I think it's safe to assume there's a fair bit of difference there. One is a horse with wings, and the other is a goddamn dragon, which is presumably much more vicious in temperament.

The magic thing is just a theory. It's never been said that any Pegasus Knight or Falcon Knight is imbued with magic, and thus, it makes very little sense, whereas a mage can easily learn to channel divine magical energy, considering they already start with the ability to invoke the spirits of the elements. The Pegasus Knights show zero aptitude for magic in their first tier, so how can they suddenly pick it up in their second tier?

And I don't see a Pegasus rider getting another Pegasus as a different mount. A Pegasus is a Pegasus. But a Pegasus sure as heck isn't a wyvern.

Edited February 26, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Dragoncat]

16 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

The magic thing is just a theory. It's never been said that any Pegasus Knight or Falcon Knight is imbued with magic, and thus, it makes very little sense, whereas a mage can easily learn to channel divine magical energy, considering they already start with the ability to invoke the spirits of the elements. The Pegasus Knights show zero aptitude for magic in their first tier, so how can they suddenly pick it up in their second tier?
 

Dark fliers say hi.

I agree with everyone who voted yes. Even with horses, sure you can ride different horses to get from Point A to Point B, but riding one into battle is a different story. The one you ride into battle has to be trained to handle it, and trust you. Even if a horse was battle trained it might only be used to one person as a rider. So if you get a different war horse it might not trust you and buck you off etc.

Gryphons and kinshis are meh. They're cool, but...yeah. Also the horns on the falcoknight mount are armor, as seen in PoR and RD I think. The pegasus changing color upon the rider promoting to dark flier? What's with that? Why do all pegasi have to be white, and in some cases black? I headcanon that they can be any color a horse can be. My pegasus knight OC has a brown one. Sometimes I use that logic for canon characters, like I gave Marcia a cream colored pegasus.

[Extrasolar]

Just now, Dragoncat said:

Dark fliers say hi.

 

Dark Fliers are tier two units that have to be promoted from the magic-less Pegasus Knights. Not to mention, there's a relatively new class. What's the excuse of the regular Falcon Knight? No confirmed magic there.

[NinjaMonkey]

The way I look at it is that while Cherche or whoever is in their new class, their original mount is in some kind of stable nearby. So if I reclass Cherche to War Cleric, her supports that include Minerva still make sense.

[Dragoncat]

1 minute ago, Extrasolar said:

Dark Fliers are tier two units that have to be promoted from the magic-less Pegasus Knights. Not to mention, there's a relatively new class. What's the excuse of the regular Falcon Knight? No confirmed magic there.

True. I guess some people have it easier learning magic than others? A pegasus knight that ends up a natural with magic becomes a dark flier, and one who doesn't becomes a falcoknight? I mean, they do tend to have good resistance against anything but wind magic. So the magic is probably there, but they just have to figure out how to use it.

[Extrasolar]

11 minutes ago, Dragoncat said:

True. I guess some people have it easier learning magic than others? A pegasus knight that ends up a natural with magic becomes a dark flier, and one who doesn't becomes a falcoknight? I mean, they do tend to have good resistance against anything but wind magic. So the magic is probably there, but they just have to figure out how to use it.

 

Eh. We can only speculate. Until we get some confirmation in-series, it's always going to be one of those things that just doesn't make sense to me. Other than "Pegasus Knights are chicks, give them a staff so they can be a white magician girl now that they're promoted." Idk, man.

[Acacia Sgt]

I'd say to me this is something that will depend. As others have mentioned, we have people like Cherche who are quite fond of their mounts, to me it does seem a bit wrong if she were to ditch Minerva. That said, taking gameplay and story segregation, I do have her reclass just for skill learning, but ultimately make her end up back with Minerva as a mount.

1 hour ago, Extrasolar said:

I never liked the "Pegasus Knights inexplicably promote to Wyvern Riders" thing from the Archanea games, simply because it's inexplicable in-universe for a variety of reasons.

I think there has been some explanation about it. I remember at least that New Mystery does have Minerva speak with one of the Whitewings (forgot which one) about riders switching from pegasus to dragon/wyvern, and she herself did so as well.

1 hour ago, Extrasolar said:

The magic thing is just a theory. It's never been said that any Pegasus Knight or Falcon Knight is imbued with magic, and thus, it makes very little sense, whereas a mage can easily learn to channel divine magical energy, considering they already start with the ability to invoke the spirits of the elements. The Pegasus Knights show zero aptitude for magic in their first tier, so how can they suddenly pick it up in their second tier?

I think the theory comes up because trying to apply real world physics on a pegasus shows that's very VERY improbable, if not impossible, for a pegasus to actually exist on an Earth-like envireroment. Or at least, to be capable of flight. Because of factors like the square-cube law. Hence, magic as a means of flight while still keeping the pegasus as being as sturdy as a regular horse. Otherwise they will be grounded animals, or be extremely fragile to even serve as war mounts.

[RedEyedDrake]

@Aca:

It was in her Support Conversations with Palla and she doesn't talk about riders doing that. She talks only about herself going through such an experience. In fact, the general tone of how she talks about the subject comes of as if being a pegasus rider and being a wyvern rider ARE parallel instead of being "stages of the same process". Meaning that the whole "Pegasus Knight promotes into a Dracoknight" thing IS supposed to be a gameplay only thing.

Also, do you know what a Pegasus Knight's typical HP and/or DEF class growths are? Because there is no way that a pegasus is supposed to be as sturdy as even a Bow Knight's horse, let alone a Cavalier's horse. But it does relate to the square cube law due to things like the necessary wingspan and everything that derives from that. Well, that and the fact that turning a tetrapod animal into a hexapod one by giving it four front limbs while having the upper pair become wings would still not allow it to fly due to anatomical issues with such a design.

Edited February 26, 2017 by RedEyedDrake

[Dragrath]

For me as long as the change is from say one Pegasus to another and there isn't some special emotional bond then it is fine however I am bothered by units changing to an animal with a  completely different build as well as acquiring mounts out of thin air... I figure that is fine for horses but any mounts that lore wise are rare and or require special training better have specific conditions or it would just be wrong... 

Also @RedEyedDrake As much as I wish FE followed anatomy and the like the series has clearly established that they fly by magic but yeah None the flying mounts in FE would realistically be able to fly by anatomy Wyverns and Kinshi could possibly if they were both tetrapods and quadrupedal on the ground, Pterosaurs with the right adaptions could reach up to 10 meter wingspans and lift off due to quadrupedal launching allowing both flight and launch to be controlled by the same limb, But rule of cool kind of says Hexapods because we want things to be familiar and still have forearms unless it is something that IRL has changed its forearms into wings such as a bird or bat...

[RedEyedDrake]

@Dragath:

Well, yes. I realized that from the beginning. I simply wanted to further explain the point that Aca brought up. Though, I'll admit that I actually prefer the tetrapodal design for the wyverns. Being hexapodal is reserved for the actual dragons, as far as I'm concerned.

Edited February 26, 2017 by RedEyedDrake