Retainers

[bethany81707]

I'm looking into the ideas behind the retainers, so along with what retainers stood out to you in Fates, I'm also interested in hearing what makes a retainer tick for you. What makes a retainer good... or perhaps not so good?

Spoiler

I'm not too familiar with Fates, so I'm also looking for examples.

Neutral is present because you need to answer both polls to be able to submit, and I suspect not everyone has a clear favourite or unfavourite. Use it only if you need to.

[De Geso]

Funnily enough, my favorite (Laslow) and least favorite (Peri) are both Xander's retainers.

I think the reason I like Laslow is because despite his circumstances regarding being in Nohr he's still loyal to his liege (as all the Awakening boys are, but I think his pulls it off the best) and unflinching in his duty. His supports are also really good, especially with Azura.

It should be self-explanatory why I don't care much for Peri - she ruins the integrity of Xander's character, has no redeeming qualities, and unlike Camilla (who is also bloodthirsty) has no inhibitions and is a totally unhinged loony. No thanks.

[Into Oblivion]

I'm neutral on my least favorite. I did gravitate towards Oboro, mainly because I wanted to explore her character at some point.

[Fire Emblem Fan]

Subaki is probably my favorite. I liked his character the best.

Peri is without a doubt my least-favorite. She is seriously one of my least-favorite characters in the entire series.

[epilepsyduck]

Picking a favorite was a bit tough, as there's a lot of retainers I like. I gave it to Niles, for bi pride as much as anything else, but Oboro, Arthur, Effie and Kagero are all great too.

Picking a least favorite, though, that was easy; Azama. I'm not a big fan of Peri either, who's pretty unlikable and suffers from some seriously squicky implications, but her worst flaw as a character really ties into the tone problem Fates has as a whole rather than anything specific to her imo. Azama, however, shot straight past unlikable into unbearable from the second I started gathering his supports. The only reason he's not my least favorite Fates character period is because Jakob is basically just as bad, but shows up earlier and has more screentime and story importance.

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

My fav is Kagerou. Her supports are pretty lame, but I love her demeanor.

Least favourite is Arthur, screw that guy. Sucks in combat, and big ham for no reason. I personally don't see his appeal, and I think he's overrated by the internet. He's not even that cool.

I actually really liked Jakob and Azama. I found their dialogue to be really funny, but I will admit that while I was laughing, I was also thinking "yo that's messed up". Japanese versions of their characters might be slightly different, idk.

[BANRYU]

Favorite is Oboro, love her design, she's a great unit, and I like her character. I also quite like Kagero, Odin, Niles, and Effie though, and like most of the others to some degree. EDIT: Oh yeah haha I kind of like what an asshole Azama is too lol.

Least is Hana mainly because she's kinda generic / not very interesting to me. Peri is close second because she's not the type of character that appeals to me (loli-ish, bratty and doll-like), but her backstory and character kinda has potential to some extent even if it's not executed very well, and that interests me at least a little. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by BANRYU

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, BANRYU said:

Peri is close second because she's not the type of character that appeals to me (loli-ish, bratty and doll-like), but her backstory and character kinda has potential to some extent even if it's not executed very well, and that interests me at least a little. 

Her support with Laslow is so laughable to the point it's not even funny, man.

Peri: I kill people because people killed my mom!

Laslow: Oh you poor thing! It's okay now! Kill all you want!

[BANRYU]

Just now, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Her support with Laslow is so laughable to the point it's not even funny, man.

Peri: I kill people because people killed my mom!

Laslow: Oh you poor thing! It's okay now! Kill all you want!

That's not remotely how it goes lmao.

Also, I don't recall asking

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Just now, BANRYU said:

That's not remotely how it goes lmao.

Also, I don't recall asking

No, it was an exaggeration, but the general gist is that they just tried to explain away her tendency, instead of taking the angle of not being able to control it.

Don't mind me, just starting discussions.

[theycallmeknuckles]

I like Azama trolling of the cast so he is my favorite, and I'm neutral of disliking.

[BANRYU]

6 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

No, it was an exaggeration, but the general gist is that they just tried to explain away her tendency, instead of taking the angle of not being able to control it.

Don't mind me, just starting discussions.

I mean... -sigh- TBQH I was kinda reluctant to get into the potentially-wordy topic of Peri's backstory justifying her lack of a moral compass, so forgive my laziness there, but.... IMO the writing earns it somewhat. The shit with no one disciplining her makes sense to me that she wouldn't understand how to empathize, and Laslow's support with her is good IMO because he finds a way to get through to her about that (where most people fail to or give up otherwise) and gets her to realize that yeah, hey, maybe indiscriminately killing people is bad.

IIRC @eclipse had a lot to say about how Peri wasn't actually THAT bad in terms of how she was written and her character was established... (If I'm remembering wrong and it wasn't you that said that then just ignore this, eclipse, and sorry to ping you if that's the case haha =3= )

Most of my objections about Peri have to do with her role as Xander's retainer, which IMO doesn't make any sense for either his or her character lol. 

Edited April 17, 2017 by BANRYU

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

1 minute ago, BANRYU said:

I mean... -sigh- TBQH I was kinda reluctant to get into the potentially-wordy topic of Peri's backstory justifying her lack of a moral compass, so forgive my laziness there, but.... IMO the writing earns it somewhat. The shit with no one disciplining her makes sense to me that she wouldn't understand how to empathize, and Laslow's support with her is good IMO because he finds a way to get through to her about that (where most people fail to or give up otherwise) and get her to realize that yeah, hey, maybe this is bad.

IIRC @eclipse had a lot to say about how Peri wasn't actually THAT bad in terms of how she was written and her character was established... (If I'm remembering wrong and it wasn't you that said that then just ignore this, eclipse, and sorry to ping you if that's the case haha =3= )

Most of my objections about Peri have to do with her role as Xander's retainer, which IMO doesn't make any sense for either his or her character lol. 

Eh, I wouldn't say Peri is bottom of the barrel terrible either, just that her potential is wasted.

[Extrasolar]

Huh, didn't we have this thread before...?

Favorite retainer is a toss up between Laslow and Niles for me. As much as I dislike the fact that the Awakening characters inclusion in Fates is the result of pure fanservice, I think they wrote it as well as they possibly could. Laslow remaining upbeat and cheerful, even in his circumstances, appeals to me a lot. He's a nice, considerate guy, and that's always good.

Niles is just amusing in general, and I do like the fact that he has depth beyond just being a tease and a troll. He's actually fairly kind, as shown in some of his supports like the one with Mozu, and his backstory is very sympathetic. Fun fact. My first run of Fates, I was going to hook up my Corrin with Niles, but decided to go with Laslow in the end. So I'm voting for him at the end of the day.

Odin gets an honorable mention as third. He's pretty funny, but I do like his sweeter and more serious moments, like his supports with his Laslow and Selena, and his support with Ophelia.

I actually really like Azama too. He's a dick, to be sure, but he managed to make it fun. He's lighthearted and carefree. I dislike Japanese Azama though, he comes off as much more openly assholish without the hint of joking that the English one has. I like Jakob fine enough. He's a dick, but I can forgive it for the most part due to his loyalty to Corrin, and his occasional friendliness to others like Mozu, as well as his backstory.

Least favorite? Easy. Peri. Not only for breaking logic in being Xander of all people's retainer (and a restainer in general), but the fact that I've seen her character in countless awful fan fictions. And that's the biggest problem. She's annoying and badly written, to the point that she comes off as a 13-year-old's self insert rather than a living, breathing character in the world.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Extrasolar

[Zapp Branniglenn]

All of my favorites are from nohr, so it's hard to pick. Odin and Arthur are geniusly written and voice acted for comedy. Laslow , Niles, and Beruka have good dialogue. Effie is inconsistent, and I find Selena and Peri to be the only weak links. I guess my favorite is Odin. Give him Odin's Grimoire, forge so you can rename it Aching Blood for 12 characters, and watch the dark mage crit animation since this weapon is a death laser. I never got tired of that.

And the Hoshidans are all my least favorites, but the bottom for me is definitely Setsuna. There's no gameplay incentive to use her when you have Takumi, her supports stink, her motivations are as fleshed out as Hinoka herself (not very), and she's yet another character designed with her hair covering one eye. My runner ups would be Hana and then Kagero. Maybe Azama too, his brand of humor never got a chuckle out of me, but I definitely use him on the team.

Edited April 17, 2017 by Gustavos

[eclipse]

My favorite and least favorite are drastically different, depending on whether or not this we're talking about writing or gameplay.

Favorite (writing): Beruka.  It shows off a very interesting aspect of Camilla's character, and most of her supports don't make me cringe.

Favorite (gameplay): Azama was surprisingly competent.

Least favorite (writing): Both of Hinoka's retainers.  Azama's backstory doesn't justify his behavior, and Setsuna was entirely forgettable.  I may not like Hana, but at least she's believable.

Least favorite (gameplay): Hana, please stop dying so much.

[Ertrick36]

41 minutes ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

My fav is Kagerou. Her supports are pretty lame, but I love her demeanor.

That's very insightful to me.  I haven't heard very many opinions from Kagero fans, and I think I can understand where you're coming from when you say you like her demeanor.

59 minutes ago, epilepsyduck said:

Picking a least favorite, though, that was easy; Azama. I'm not a big fan of Peri either, who's pretty unlikable and suffers from some seriously squicky implications, but her worst flaw as a character really ties into the tone problem Fates has as a whole rather than anything specific to her imo. Azama, however, shot straight past unlikable into unbearable from the second I started gathering his supports. The only reason he's not my least favorite Fates character period is because Jakob is basically just as bad, but shows up earlier and has more screentime and story importance.

I sometimes find Azama entertaining (and he even has some genuinely good supports, like his support line with Subaki), but he has some pretty awful ones, too.  Sometimes he takes things from uncomfortably funny to straight up appalling.  It makes me think of the whole "It's just a prank, bro" phrase that's practically become a meme.  There's a point where it all being just for "shits and giggles" becomes a flat excuse.

1 hour ago, YouSquiddinMe said:

I think the reason I like Laslow is because despite his circumstances regarding being in Nohr he's still loyal to his liege (as all the Awakening boys are, but I think his pulls it off the best) and unflinching in his duty. His supports are also really good, especially with Azura.

Laslow was definitely the best out of the Awakening trio.  He still philanders, but shows more maturation than the other two.  And when you've played Awakening (especially Future Past), then his more solemn moments carry so much more weight.  If the other two had more solemn moments, I'd like them a lot more as well, and would think Odin's inclusion more justified.

17 minutes ago, BANRYU said:

IIRC @eclipse had a lot to say about how Peri wasn't actually THAT bad in terms of how she was written and her character was established... (If I'm remembering wrong and it wasn't you that said that then just ignore this, eclipse, and sorry to ping you if that's the case haha =3= )

In a character listing thread (where we listed favorite to least favorite, top to bottom), eclipse specifically listed Peri higher than most did.  I think it was top 20 or top 30, while lots of other put 'er down in the bottom ten.  Admittedly, hearing eclipse's and others' opinions of Peri have changed my own opinion a bit, especially after reading some of her better supports myself.

11 minutes ago, Extrasolar said:

Huh, didn't we have this thread before...?

Probably, but it might be a month or so old, so I think it might be justified.  Sometimes opinions change, and different people frequent this board at different times.  Though given the top results are characters like Oboro and Laslow, while the bottom are Peri and Azama, I'd say it's either a testament to how great (or bad) those characters are, or its still the same people frequenting this particular board.  I've frequented it enough for about a year, I think.

 

Anyway, my fave should be obvious; Oboro!  Beyond her funny-looking face (I don't necessarily mean this in a bad way, but her face makes me laugh every single time for some reason), you've got a very solid character; one of the best in FE, as far as I've seen.  She's one of the few characters in Fates whose flaws are neither excused nor treated as gimmicks.  She also feels like an actual person, as she isn't just a one-note character; she has a passion for fashion and shopkeeping, but due to tragic circumstances, was raised for a life of service in the military.  It's a fairly human story that I think plenty of folks can relate to.  Plus, I know some people who are genuinely good (care about their families and friends very much), but are prejudiced for one reason or another, so she strikes closer to home than various other characters in this game.

Least favorite I listed as Setsuna.  I don't hate her, but there are reasons I don't favor her as much.  Mainly, I don't get why she's falling into so many traps.  I mean, Arthur's gimmick is literally having bad luck, and so there isn't a need to explain why bad things happen to him.  But Setsuna doesn't have bad luck as a gimmick; she just falls into traps for no apparent reason.  She isn't a particularly fulfilling character to me, either.  Again, I don't hate her, but she just feels sorta like a filler character.

Also, Flora, Felicia, Jakob, and Gunter aren't listed in the poll, even though they're all retainers.  Is there a reason for that?  Also, I'm unsure if Kaze, Orochi, Reina, or Yukimura should count, since the former only becomes a retainer under specific circumstances and the latter three are retainers to a dead woman.

[Into Oblivion]

10 minutes ago, eclipse said:

My favorite and least favorite are drastically different, depending on whether or not this we're talking about writing or gameplay.

Favorite (writing): Beruka.  It shows off a very interesting aspect of Camilla's character, and most of her supports don't make me cringe.

Favorite (gameplay): Azama was surprisingly competent.

Least favorite (writing): Both of Hinoka's retainers.  Azama's backstory doesn't justify his behavior, and Setsuna was entirely forgettable.  I may not like Hana, but at least she's believable.

Least favorite (gameplay): Hana, please stop dying so much.

I forgot about her. I do find the aspect that she was originally supposed to kill Camilla interesting as well. Oh, she's not my favorite, but I do find that interesting.

[property of nuvelle]

Laslow is one of my favorite characters from Fates and probably Awakening. I honestly felt like many of his supports were some of the best. (I'm glad his Selena support was better than the Inigo/Severa, as their S-support in Awakening was pretty lame) Even though he's supposed to be a womanizer, he's still very empathetic and is very self-conscious about his dancing which makes his personality all the more charming.

I never really liked Beruka. Maybe because I didn't explore her character compared to others, but I just didn't like the cold-blooded killer who would even betray her liege. Of course Peri would count as a killer too, but Beruka is farther below the list for me.

For Hoshido, I liked Hana, mostly just because she was always a good unit for me. Disliked Hinata because he just wasn't super interesting to me and was always a terrible unit.

[bethany81707]

8 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

Probably, but it might be a month or so old, so I think it might be justified.  Sometimes opinions change, and different people frequent this board at different times.  Though given the top results are characters like Oboro and Laslow, while the bottom are Peri and Azama, I'd say it's either a testament to how great (or bad) those characters are, or its still the same people frequenting this particular board.  I've frequented it enough for about a year, I think.

Also, Flora, Felicia, Jakob, and Gunter aren't listed in the poll, even though they're all retainers.  Is there a reason for that?  Also, I'm unsure if Kaze, Orochi, Reina, or Yukimura should count, since the former only becomes a retainer under specific circumstances and the latter three are retainers to a dead woman.

I haven't been in this particular part of the forums due to lack of interest and ability to play Fates, and am now here for the benefit of literary pursuits.

Honestly, I stuck with the non-Corrin ones largely because of that inexperience and confusion on where to draw the line. Besides, isn't Silas supposed to be a debatable one too?

 

[Extrasolar]

2 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

Besides, isn't Silas supposed to be a debatable one too?

Nah, Silas isn't a retainer or a servant of Corrin. He's a knight of Nohr. He sticks with Corrin due to being their best friend, and super loyal to them. He lived at the fortress for a while with young Corrin before the game started, and after he was sent away became a knight so that he might one day reunite with them. But yeah, not a retainer.

[Ertrick36]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

I haven't been in this particular part of the forums due to lack of interest and ability to play Fates, and am now here for the benefit of literary pursuits.

Honestly, I stuck with the non-Corrin ones largely because of that inexperience and confusion on where to draw the line. Besides, isn't Silas supposed to be a debatable one too?

I didn't necessarily take into consideration your inexperience.  I apologize if my statements caused any confusion.

Silas might be in the running for retainer, but he's even less of a contender than Kaze because it's never explicitly stated that he becomes Corrin's retainer; he could just be sticking by Corrin's side because he's your best friend and a loyal knight of Nohr.  I mean, aside from joining your army, he never actually serves Corrin.  But as for Corrin's retainers (and Mikoto's retainers), their descriptions specifically say that they're his/her retainers.  An easy line to draw for you would be those who start off as retainers to another playable character; Gunter, Flora, Felicia, and Jakob all fit this criteria, but Kaze, Silas, Orochi, Reina, and Yukimura don't fit it at all.

Though this list isn't bad, either.  Unlike Corrin's retainers, none of them get too much story relevance, so they still fit together in that sense.  And they also have the common thread of not being Corrin's retainers.  I only mentioned it because it randomly occurred to me that Corrin's retainers weren't listed.

[BANRYU]

26 minutes ago, Ertrick36 said:

That's very insightful to me.  I haven't heard very many opinions from Kagero fans, and I think I can understand where you're coming from when you say you like her demeanor.

I sometimes find Azama entertaining (and he even has some genuinely good supports, like his support line with Subaki), but he has some pretty awful ones, too.  Sometimes he takes things from uncomfortably funny to straight up appalling.  It makes me think of the whole "It's just a prank, bro" phrase that's practically become a meme.  There's a point where it all being just for "shits and giggles" becomes a flat excuse.

In a character listing thread (where we listed favorite to least favorite, top to bottom), eclipse specifically listed Peri higher than most did.  I think it was top 20 or top 30, while lots of other put 'er down in the bottom ten.  Admittedly, hearing eclipse's and others' opinions of Peri have changed my own opinion a bit, especially after reading some of her better supports myself.

Least favorite I listed as Setsuna.  I don't hate her, but there are reasons I don't favor her as much.  Mainly, I don't get why she's falling into so many traps.  I mean, Arthur's gimmick is literally having bad luck, and so there isn't a need to explain why bad things happen to him.  But Setsuna doesn't have bad luck as a gimmick; she just falls into traps for no apparent reason.  She isn't a particularly fulfilling character to me, either.  Again, I don't hate her, but she just feels sorta like a filler character.

I like that Kagero is an artist the most about her, myself. I really like how she apparently has a really grim artistic style; that's something that's interesting and endearing to me haha. 

Azama is an instance where he SHOULD be entertaining, but due to the thoughtlessness of his writing, he comes across as worse than he should be. The 'flippant priest who tends to be right most of the time but is still an asshole about it' is a shtick I really like, but it could have been executed better.

Ahh yeah, that might be where I saw the thing about eclipse talking about Peri. I didn't really like her then and didn't have any strong feelings beyond her design being not to my taste, and admittedly had no interest in looking into her, though hearing eclipse talk about her backstory and kind of put things in perspective improved my opinion of her as well, yeah haha. I'm kind of the same way when it comes to Tharja and Camilla in terms of liking them though their character is often criticized, so I can totally appreciate that. 

Regarding Setsuna, yeah I agree she's one of the weaker retainers.... I like her design and I think her airy personality is cute, but the thing about constantly falling into traps is a tired gimmick and a poor replacement for actual character development... so yeah... that's pretty disappointing. 

[SatsumaFSoysoy]

Setsuna's gimmick does get old after a while, but she has a line in Heroes that's “We should go hunting. We’ll step into a trap, I bet. But you can just summon Lady Hinoka to save us.” That was hilarious though.

[Dark Holy Elf]

Favourites:

Beruka - What Eclipse said. I'm kind of a sucker for people who have killed their emotions and how they deal with it. She can occasionally pull the trope a little too far (like her Xander support) but overall she's excellent, and gets my vote.

Oboro - I like how her supports explore her Nohr hatred and make her much less one-note than she first appears. Feels pretty fleshed out and believable. Unfortunately I dislike both Takumi and Hinata so she loses something from her main interactions, but yeah, supports are good.

Niles - Dude is legit funny and I like how his backstory shaped him as the sardonic little bastard he is.

Odin - TOO... MUCH... POWER! Odin is a walking meme, good stuff. I liked him in Awakening too; he's better now that he has real characters to bounce off instead of other Awakening kids.

Selena - Pouty and, well, tsundere for a lack of a better word, but the game pokes fun at her in a way that she comes off as extremely funny to me.

Arthur - I like me some large hams. Arthur delivers. I especially approve of how he puts up the act to deal with the shit of Nohr.

Azama - I'll be the first to admit he has some cringy moments, but he also has some pretty damn good ones. "Fruit is proof that the gods exist and love us. Just kidding! Life is meaningless." Game's not afraid to let him make a decent point now and then too, even as it largely makes fun of him.

My least favourites are probably Laslow (Japan seems to have this thing where "hits on women" is supposed to be interesting as one's sole personality trait) and Hinata (partly for the terrible hair, partly for the Takumi worship, partly for him being a thoroughly mediocre unit). Peri I don't take seriously so she ends up non-terrible to me, though still not as good as many other comic characters. Hana/Effie/Subaki are bland though eh some points for gender subversion in Effie's case? I don't have much to say about either ninja; Kaze's my fave of that trio. Setsuna is stoned and there's only so far the humour goes there; the traps thing is weird and doesn't make much sense.