Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Like, everyone and their mother will take advantage of the system. It literally has no point of being there anymore. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Troykv Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) 1 minute ago, Soul~! said: Like, everyone and their mother will take advantage of the system. It literally has no point of being there anymore. I think essencially means: "Which characters have the best stat combination and base build?" or something like that. Edited June 17, 2017 by Troykv Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 I can see that. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Othin Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 With limited resources, if you just want to polish a character's base abilities a bit, you can get a decent idea of what you'll get from the no-SI list, but the SI list is useless. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arcanite Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Soul~! said: I can see that. What troykv said is accurate "Who has the better sets at base" is what they are trying to say, though stats also have something to do with it as well! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 17 minutes ago, Othin said: With limited resources, if you just want to polish a character's base abilities a bit, you can get a decent idea of what you'll get from the no-SI list, but the SI list is useless. wow I was so narrow minded to the idea I mean, if you think about it, it's not like Inheritance tier lists are 300% realistic, so to speak. If anything, it's in a hyperbole and they even make it clear they aren't penalising characters for the costs of said skills (luck factor and opportunity costs). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roflolxp54 Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) They're basically 2 extremes. The no-SI list assumes that the player is F2P and can't afford to spend any money on orbs - the F2Per would have to make due with what they are given, especially if they don't reroll. The SI list assumes that time and money are infinite resources so the player would have no problem whaling for specific units. Edited June 17, 2017 by Roflolxp54 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 On the inheritance tier list I'm refering to, Lucina and Masked Marth are in different tiers. I can't see why. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_n Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 27 minutes ago, Rosetta said: On the inheritance tier list I'm refering to, Lucina and Masked Marth are in different tiers. I can't see why. Masked Marth is locked to Neutral. Lucina gets the advantage of natures that allow her to perform better. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raguna Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 (edited) 35 minutes ago, Rosetta said: On the inheritance tier list I'm refering to, Lucina and Masked Marth are in different tiers. I can't see why. Plus, Masked Lucina has no skills of her own. She costs more to make better. Edited June 17, 2017 by Raguna Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartozio Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Raguna said: Plus, Masked Lucina has no skills of her own. She costs more to make better. This is irrelevant, since the inheritance tier list does not take the cost of builds into consideration. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 Hawkeye is underrated as phuck. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 13 minutes ago, r_n said: Masked Marth is locked to Neutral. Lucina gets the advantage of natures that allow her to perform better. I thought the list only considers neutral IVs, and doesn't take +10 units into account. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 3 minutes ago, Rosetta said: I thought the list only considers neutral IVs, and doesn't take +10 units into account. They mean no actual Boon/Bane. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_n Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 7 minutes ago, Rosetta said: I thought the list only considers neutral IVs, and doesn't take +10 units into account. Which list are you looking at? The one I look at is the wiki's which does take into account natures Units are rated by their stats (including boons/banes), skill potential, and important match-ups In which case MM will be slightly worse just by virtue of missing a stat benchmark on a handful of matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, Soul~! said: They mean no actual Boon/Bane. Is that average case, or best IV possible? The tier seems so inaccurate that perhaps +3/-3 in stats doesn't matter, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 I don't know how the tier list weighs those (pretty new to these myself). I agree cosistency would be the way to go. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_n Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 1 minute ago, Rosetta said: Is that average case, or best IV possible? The tier seems so inaccurate that perhaps +3/-3 in stats doesn't matter, though. +3 speed could be the difference between outspeeding someone to either double or survive, +3 attack the difference between netting a kill and not. I don't know the specifics of how it's all determined, but I imagine they look at the best set of builds w/ SI and rank on that way. Point is, Lucina can be a little better due to getting a useful nature vs Masked Marth. The wiki list for instance, just separates them by a minor tier shift. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rosetta Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 4 minutes ago, r_n said: +3 speed could be the difference between outspeeding someone to either double or survive, +3 attack the difference between netting a kill and not. Reminds me of my -Atk Reinhardt... T_T 5 minutes ago, r_n said: I don't know the specifics of how it's all determined, but I imagine they look at the best set of builds w/ SI and rank on that way. Point is, Lucina can be a little better due to getting a useful nature vs Masked Marth. The wiki list for instance, just separates them by a minor tier shift. Then I assume the wiki is for whales to build optimal teams, not for the average player who pulled some random +def/-res natures and need guide on skills. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 17, 2017 Author Share Posted June 17, 2017 2 minutes ago, Rosetta said: Then I assume the wiki is for whales to build optimal teams, not for the average player who pulled some random +def/-res natures and need guide on skills. It's aimed to help everyone out. You're just going to have the weigh the options and figure out for yourself as to what the best choice is for your situation. The Hawkeye builds I see don't make me wonder at all why he's considered he's mediocre, but the one I made is pretty beast for what he's aimed for. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
r_n Posted June 17, 2017 Share Posted June 17, 2017 Just now, Rosetta said: Reminds me of my -Atk Reinhardt... T_T Then I assume the wiki is for whales to build optimal teams, not for the average player who pulled some random +def/-res natures and need guide on skills. Taking an average of stats or assuming neutral natures on everyone wouldn't help either, though. You'd still be lacking in areas with a nature like that. The wiki tier list, and likely other big tier lists, being based around a set of useful natures and useful skills to benefit those useful natures is probably the best path. An ideal tier list would probably need to account for the performance of every single character's possible natures but that would be both overly granular and kind of a time sink. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Junkhead Posted June 18, 2017 Author Share Posted June 18, 2017 So how does the tier labeling work. It doesn't make any sense beyond A. Like, does it go from "High" (A) to just a giant, massive "Mid" section with the B's? I'm so stangely OCD about those. Unless you're to tell me the game is generally well-balanced and there's hardly any (if any) unusable character. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRay Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 When I see things like "S" and "+" as tiers, I just ignore it and relabel it in my mind with the top tier being A, the second tier being B, and so on. I think they include "S" and "+" so the readers do not feel as bad if the character they like is rated C instead of F. Gamepress's inheritance tier list is a lot cleaner and better than the Wiki's. Wiki's tier lists are a mess. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SatsumaFSoysoy Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 27 minutes ago, XRay said: Gamepress's inheritance tier list is a lot cleaner and better than the Wiki's. Wiki's tier lists are a mess. Huh, Ike and Nowi in Tier 1 while Reinhardt's in Tier 2? Celica at the top of Tier 2 but Tharja way down in Tier 3? Some of these placements are very interesting. I read the explanations, and they make sense, but I'm not sure if I like the philosophy of this list compared to the Wiki's. Having a tier list compare units at the pinnacle of their power (assuming that they can get the best nature they want no problem, etc.) seems to be the best, though flexibility and stuff are interesting angles. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bartozio Posted June 18, 2017 Share Posted June 18, 2017 7 hours ago, Soul~! said: So how does the tier labeling work. It doesn't make any sense beyond A. Like, does it go from "High" (A) to just a giant, massive "Mid" section with the B's? I'm so stangely OCD about those. Unless you're to tell me the game is generally well-balanced and there's hardly any (if any) unusable character. Did you already read the rating criteria they give? C is basicly bad, while B means they can do stuff, but get outperformed. While I don't fully agree with the wiki tier list, I find it good enough as long as you know their criteria. Ranking units lower when they need support to perform optimally is kind of missleading, since while Nino needs more support then Ryoma, she can destroy most teams in arena with that support, while Ryoma cannot. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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