So there's actually no point in a vanilla/No Inheritence tier list

[Zeo]

While we're at it, who uses Axe infantry? It's something I almost never see. If you run a green, you run one of the many ridiculous and dominant mages, or Spring Camilla if you were lucky like that. Otherwise you run Camilla or BA+ Cherche. Then you may see a Titania here and there and of course, Hector.

You never see Arthur, Barst or even Raven. Once in a blue moon you might see an Anna but that's typically just for the bonus. Raven and Anna in particular have some pretty nice stat spreads. Why are axe infantry so rare when Sword and Lance infantry still see regular use? Is there no axe infantry on the same level of a sword infantry?

Edited June 18, 2017 by Zeo

[XRay]

4 hours ago, SatsumaFSoysoy said:

Spoiler

Huh, Ike and Nowi in Tier 1 while Reinhardt's in Tier 2? Celica at the top of Tier 2 but Tharja way down in Tier 3? Some of these placements are very interesting. I read the explanations, and they make sense, but I'm not sure if I like the philosophy of this list compared to the Wiki's. Having a tier list compare units at the pinnacle of their power (assuming that they can get the best nature they want no problem, etc.) seems to be the best, though flexibility and stuff are interesting angles.

 

 

 

 

 

 

I do not agree with some of their placements though. Due to how overprepared everyone is in the Arena and how horrible his movement is, I will put Hector in Tier 2. Effie is similar to Hector, and I would put her at Tier 2 as well. I am not sure if Ike should be in Tier 1 due to his inferior stats compared to Ryoma, but Ike is still really good. Reinhardt should be in Tier 1 in my opinion since he is so easy to use. All of the Dancers should be in Tier 1 in my opinion since they can dance another Tier 1 unit to continue the rampage or retreat to safety; factoring in their combat strength is stupid in my opinion when their combat strength lies with the person they danced for. Nowi is great for taking out sword users with their pathetic Resistance stats, and I still see a lot of sword users who is not Olivia on defense teams, so Nowi is pretty relevant.

I think my biggest disagreement will be on Tharja. She should be in Tier 2 with Celica since Tharja is superior when buffed. Ragnarok is just a more independent Rauðrblade, so their argument that Celica has different builds does not make sense when the purpose of those two builds are the same.

I prefer the comparison of units at the pinnacle of their power since this is an inheritance tier list. I am not going to give B!Cordelia Fury 3 when I can give her L&D3, so there is no point in taking into account Fury 3. And for people with more disposable income, grabbing the best nature is not a problem either.

2 hours ago, Zeo said:

Spoiler

 

While we're at it, who uses Axe infantry? It's something I almost never see. If you run a green, you run one of the many ridiculous and dominant mages, or Spring Camilla if you were lucky like that. Otherwise you run Camilla or BA+ Cherche. Then you may see a Titania here and there and of course, Hector.

You never see Arthur, Barst or even Raven. Once in a blue moon you might see an Anna but that's typically just for the bonus. Raven and Anna in particular have some pretty nice stat spreads. Why are axe infantry so rare when Sword and Lance infantry still see regular use? Is there no axe infantry on the same level of a sword infantry?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

You answered your question right there. Sword units are extremely prevalent in the game where a large fraction of the cast wields it. Lance infantry may be common, but it is no where near as common as Swords. Axe infantry units are also generally slow and their only legendary weapon, Nóatún, sucks. Armads is on their armor and Hauteclere is on their flyer. If you need to take out blue units, you have Nino and Julia who can attack from range.

Edited June 18, 2017 by XRay

[Junkhead]

4 hours ago, XRay said:

When I see things like "S" and "+" as tiers, I just ignore it and relabel it in my mind with the top tier being A, the second tier being B, and so on.

I think they include "S" and "+" so the readers do not feel as bad if the character they like is rated C instead of F.

Gamepress's inheritance tier list is a lot cleaner and better than the Wiki's. Wiki's tier lists are a mess.

Yeah, I've been chilling at the wiki at a lot, lately. You know, with this whole spark on the meta I just got... just found the layout more comfterble and accesible to my tastes. With that said, I just assumed people were under a very general and widely-accepted tier list(s, in case of Inheritance or not). Gamepress' take looks really nice amaigá.

2 hours ago, Bartozio said:

Did you already read the rating criteria they give? C is basicly bad, while B means they can do stuff, but get outperformed.

While I don't fully agree with the wiki tier list, I find it good enough as long as you know their criteria. Ranking units lower when they need support to perform optimally is kind of missleading, since while Nino needs more support then Ryoma, she can destroy most teams in arena with that support, while Ryoma cannot.

Not so much, it seems. Still, seems pretty fair in the sense you're not really finding anyone to be unsuable. With a bit of thought, I could probably optimise the C's to do something great.

1 hour ago, Zeo said:

While we're at it, who uses Axe infantry? It's something I almost never see. If you run a green, you run one of the many ridiculous and dominant mages, or Spring Camilla if you were lucky like that. Otherwise you run Camilla or BA+ Cherche. Then you may see a Titania here and there and of course, Hector.

You never see Arthur, Barst or even Raven. Once in a blue moon you might see an Anna but that's typically just for the bonus. Raven and Anna in particular have some pretty nice stat spreads. Why are axe infantry so rare when Sword and Lance infantry still see regular use? Is there no axe infantry on the same level of a sword infantry?

This what somewhat of a concern, but more in regards to axes in general. Are they all that common to begin with? I only really recall Hector and Camilla, and it's not like I've seen many Cherches flying around despite how high she's ranked. It was brought into my mind when I was debating as to put Axebreaker into Hawkeye or not- ironically, I'm finding it a shit ton more useful for The Trials than the actual Arena.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

3 hours ago, Zeo said:

While we're at it, who uses Axe infantry? It's something I almost never see. If you run a green, you run one of the many ridiculous and dominant mages, or Spring Camilla if you were lucky like that. Otherwise you run Camilla or BA+ Cherche. Then you may see a Titania here and there and of course, Hector.

You never see Arthur, Barst or even Raven. Once in a blue moon you might see an Anna but that's typically just for the bonus. Raven and Anna in particular have some pretty nice stat spreads. Why are axe infantry so rare when Sword and Lance infantry still see regular use? Is there no axe infantry on the same level of a sword infantry?

1. They are not exactly common as a class to begin with(This is the same thing as why say Blue Distant Counter is kinda bad, Red Mage was rare before Celica, and still kinda rare even with Celica)

2. The best of Axe Infantry is outdumpstered by Cherche and the fliers.

3. Blue Mage is WAY too dominant to even consder running them Like Bartre, Raven, Legion etc are legitimately amazing units, but they don't help you do an easy soft check to Rienhardt and that role is literally everything. This is a factor that makes Hector still good despite everything about him being shit - he have a built in Anti Blue Mage measure

 

Lets say it like this, Lyn on paper, is an identical unit to Bartre, but Lyn can soft check Nino and Cecilia attack range(both extremely dangerous unit), and execute Hector(who is common)

Bartre took one touch from Linde/Reinhardt and he's ded

Edited June 18, 2017 by JSND

[Arthur97]

7 hours ago, XRay said:

When I see things like "S" and "+" as tiers, I just ignore it and relabel it in my mind with the top tier being A, the second tier being B, and so on.

I think they include "S" and "+" so the readers do not feel as bad if the character they like is rated C instead of F.

Gamepress's inheritance tier list is a lot cleaner and better than the Wiki's. Wiki's tier lists are a mess.

But their "in-depth" Ike page lists one of his cons as "super cool" or something like that which is basically that everyone will run him due to popularity. It just sounds fanboyish, and isn't even that true. I don't actually run into that many Ikes (not that Ike is much trouble for me as he typically does little to know damage to my Robin).

[XRay]

37 minutes ago, JSND said:

1. They are not common and people have this myth of "Axe infantry getting screwed by meta because Sword is common" Infantry Axe is screwed, but its not actually Sword Lord. Its by Blue Mage

 

 

 

 

But swords are common though and that is one of the factors in limiting Axe infantry. And I agree that blue mages are very powerful, but any decent mage can knock out the melee of the color they are weak to with Blades. Nino can take out Lloyd unless he has TA, but it is rare to see TA outside of units that has them or Ravens.

10 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

But their "in-depth" Ike page lists one of his cons as "super cool" or something like that which is basically that everyone will run him due to popularity. It just sounds fanboyish, and isn't even that true. I don't actually run into that many Ikes (not that Ike is much trouble for me as he typically does little to know damage to my Robin).

 

 

 

 

Yeah, that sounds... weird. Not sure why they would put that as a con instead of just saying Blue is OP and Swords are almost as bad axes.

Edited June 18, 2017 by XRay

[Arthur97]

15 minutes ago, XRay said:

But swords are common though and that is one of the factors in limiting Axe infantry. And I agree that blue mages are very powerful, but any decent mage can knock out the melee of the color they are weak to with Blades. Nino can take out Lloyd unless he has TA, but it is rare to see TA outside of units that has them or Ravens.

Yeah, that sounds... weird. Not sure why they would put that as a con instead of just saying Blue is OP and Swords are almost as bad axes.

It was listed as a con (I think) because it meant that Ike would have to learn to fight Ike or let someone else do it. 

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

22 minutes ago, XRay said:

But swords are common though and that is one of the factors in limiting Axe infantry. And I agree that blue mages are very powerful, but any decent mage can knock out the melee of the color they are weak to with Blades. Nino can take out Lloyd unless he has TA, but it is rare to see TA outside of units that has them or Ravens.

 

What i mean is that Sword being common did not really make Axe infantry harder to run because Sword are not a threat to what you expect Green to do. As far as team build goes, Blue units are so overpowered they can solo 4 Red to begin with.

If you run an Axe infantry for example, and you meet a Red heavy team, that basically gave you instant win. All your green need to do is use broken skill like Reposition

 

The problem is that usually these Melee Green did not really do well against Blue Mage. As i made my case before, Bartre, in my opinion, is a really good unit - but he's a green, he is meant to beat Blue, except Reinhardt/Olwen/Ursula shitstomps him. In which case why bother? go run Julia/Cecilia/Hector who doesn't instant lose to Blue Mage they are meant to beat

Edited June 18, 2017 by JSND

[XRay]

5 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

It was listed as a con (I think) because it meant that Ike would have to learn to fight Ike or let someone else do it. 

Okay. That makes more sense, but I do not actually see him that often as you said. Maybe he is more popular in the lower Tiers of the Arena?

3 minutes ago, JSND said:

The problem is that usually these Melee Green did not really do well against Blue Mage. As i made my case before, Bartre, in my opinion, is a really good unit - but he's a green, he is meant to beat Blue, except Reinhardt/Olwen/Ursula shitstomps him. In which case why bother? go run Julia/Cecilia/Hector who doesn't instant lose to Blue Mage

 

 

I do not think any melee units do well against the mages they are supposedly strong against. Blade mages can just kill them from a distance.

Edited June 18, 2017 by XRay

[Junkhead]

Just now, JSND said:

3. Blue Mage is WAY too dominant to even consder running them Like Bartre, Raven, Legion etc are legitimately amazing units, but they don't help you do an easy soft check to Rienhardt and that role is literally everything. This is a factor that makes Hector still good despite everything about him being shit - he have a built in Anti Blue Mage measure

Not gonna lie, but Hawkeye shits on him.

[Arthur97]

Anyone else find it odd that on the Wiki's tier list, Masked Lucina is unranked in the vanilla list, but ranked in the inheritance list. Did they just not know what to do with a unit without skills?

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

9 minutes ago, XRay said:

Okay. That makes more sense, but I do not actually see him that often as you said. Maybe he is more popular in the lower Tiers of the Arena?

I do not think any melee units do well against the mages they are supposedly strong against. Blade mages can just kill them from a distance.

I mean, Xander at least actually win 1v1 against 4/4/2/4 Fury Nino so theres a certain bar that need to be passed

[XRay]

Just now, JSND said:

I mean, Xander at least actually win 1v1 against 4/4/2/4 Fury Nino so theres a certain bar that need to be passed

Nino sometimes run Desp., so he cannot always survive against Nino. Xander, Ryoma, Ike, Hector, and Camus are more of the exceptions. I guess I should have phrased it as most melee units instead.

[JSND Alter Dragon Boner]

17 minutes ago, XRay said:

Nino sometimes run Desp., so he cannot always survive against Nino. Xander, Ryoma, Ike, Hector, and Camus are more of the exceptions. I guess I should have phrased it as most melee units instead.

Fair enough

 

In fairness it have been a long time since i run a Melee unit that isn't on a horse, or is named Olivia, but Olivia is broken as shit anyway

[XRay]

6 minutes ago, JSND said:

Fair enough

 

In fairness it have been a long time since i run a Melee unit that isn't on a horse, or is named Olivia, but Olivia is broken as shit anyway

 

Yeah, dancers are OP. They function as the ultimate defense for your glass cannons since glass cannons (or any unit) are invincible if it is outside of enemy range. Dancers also function as one of your ultimate offensive units since they can just dance your OP Blade mage and they can continue their rampage. And finally, dancers allows me to screw up on positioning and undo it with a dance.