The most balanced FE game hard mode

[Harvey]

Like the title says, which game has the most balanced hard mode. The conditions are 

• Regardless of how hard the enemies get, all units can be usable throughout the entire game or atleast should be useful halfway.
• If the game makes accessing some resources hard like getting less money etc, it should still be plausible to go throughout the game.
• If a game unlocks extra content in hard mode, it has to be plausible.
• If any game requires saving NPC or villages, they should be able to be saved despite the enemies being tougher.

Yeah that's pretty much it. Lunatic is not counted btw since its not in all games.

Also for those wondering why I put FE4 in the poll, there is an option to make the enemies harder when you beat the game once.

 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Harvey

[Armagon]

Can't speak for Tellius since i've never played but Shadows of Valentia has the most balanced Hard mode in the series imo. Legit, everyone is usable. Well, except for Nomah but he was never usable even in normal. Even in Gaiden, he was dead weight. Although he has his uses as a back-up healer so he's not completely useless. But everybody else is good (or at least usable in some form) on Hard Mode. 

24 minutes ago, Harvey said:

Regardless of how hard the enemies get, all units can be usable throughout the entire game

Yeah, this ain't possible regardless of the game (assuming no grinding is involved). There's gonna be a bad unit. Like Nomah. Nomah can serve as a back-up healer, but he's just too bad to be a capable fighter.

[Intercopter]

Fates Conquest seemed like the most balanced to me. I can't speak for the usability of every unit, but everyone in my general entourage had a purpose. I never grew to rely on a handful of overpowered units like I did in some other games. I never felt like any one unit was objectively better than the other, either. Nobody became an invulnerable killing machine at any point. If I got complacent, I would have to restart.

 

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I played hard mode of these parts:
FE6: It was quite challenging and the enemies had serious stats but the enemy's level curve dropped after a while massively. In chapter 23 you still have to fight draco knights.
FE7: I played only HHM yet. The difference between the character mode was way more noticable than the jump between normal and hard. Still easy except for two certain chapters but not because of their difficulty. Marcus was never needed.
FE8: Really easy.
FE9: If we're talking about the non JP version, it's the easiest hard mode. Prepromoted enemies are even worse than in normal mode (like in FE8's easy and normal mode).
FE10: Not hard except for the DB chapters because the laguz have up to seven more attack power than they have in normal. Some reduced mechanics like disabled enemies's movement range make this mode more time consuming but not harder.
FE13: Iirc it was the best mode. But I'm talking about FE13, one of the most unbalanced games in this franchise.
FE14: Never finished Conquest on hard because I got frustrated. It was challenging... but not in a fun way.

Honestly I'd say FE6 but it's far away from being perfect.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Aya Shameimaru

[Harvey]

1 hour ago, Armagon said:

Yeah, this ain't possible regardless of the game (assuming no grinding is involved). There's gonna be a bad unit. Like Nomah. Nomah can serve as a back-up healer, but he's just too bad to be a capable fighter.

Ok I edited that part. Should be simple now.

 

[Køkø]

1 hour ago, Intercopter said:

Fates Conquest seemed like the most balanced to me. I can't speak for the usability of every unit, but everyone in my general entourage had a purpose. I never grew to rely on a handful of overpowered units like I did in some other games. I never felt like any one unit was objectively better than the other, either. Nobody became an invulnerable killing machine at any point. If I got complacent, I would have to restart.

 

On Hard? Lol, tell me your secret. Who were your main units other than Corrin, Azura, the Nohrian royals, Niles/Shura,Effie/Benny, and maybe Haitaka/Rallyman? It passes the latter 3 requisites, but all units are not usable without DLC in Conquest hard and up. Unless you know something I don't. Harvey didn't mention anything about DLC, so if that counts, then ignore this post. 

 

 

As for my vote, either Sacred Stones and Path of Radiance. They're both incredibly easy.

[Intercopter]

6 minutes ago, Køkø said:

On Hard? Lol, tell me your secret. Who were your main units other than Corrin, Azura, the Nohrian royals, Niles/Shura,Effie/Benny, and maybe Haitaka/Rallyman? It passes the latter 3 requisites, but all units are not usable without DLC in Conquest hard and up. Unless you know something I don't. Harvey didn't mention anything about DLC, so if that counts, then ignore this post. 

I just used whatever units I personally liked and enjoyed playing with. Like I said, I can't speak for the usability of every unit, I just used whoever I felt comfortable with, and I had an experience that felt like a fair challenge.

I guess you and I just had different experiences with the game, lol. 

[Armagon]

7 minutes ago, Intercopter said:

I just used whatever units I personally liked and enjoyed playing with. Like I said, I can't speak for the usability of every unit, I just used whoever I felt comfortable with, and I had an experience that felt like a fair challenge.

I guess you and I just had different experiences with the game, lol. 

Same. Like, i never used Effie and Benny in my Conquest playthrough. I killed Haitaka instead of capturing him because capturing sucks tbh.

It's been a while since i've played but i rememeber Soleil being one of my MVPs.

[Shadow Mir]

I say SoV - no one really stands out as being either useless or more trouble than they're worth.

[Nobody]

3 hours ago, Køkø said:

On Hard? Lol, tell me your secret. Who were your main units other than Corrin, Azura, the Nohrian royals, Niles/Shura,Effie/Benny, and maybe Haitaka/Rallyman? It passes the latter 3 requisites, but all units are not usable without DLC in Conquest hard and up. Unless you know something I don't. Harvey didn't mention anything about DLC, so if that counts, then ignore this post.

All units are usable even on Lunatic, without DLC. Good? Definitely not. Usable? Yes. You can easily use any unit on Conquest Lunatic, and even more so on Hard.

Actually, it boggles my mind that someone would think someone like Silas, Selena, Kaze or Beruka would even be unusable on Lunatic Conquest, because those four units have no problem AT ALL with it. Kaze is actually a great asset to the team and definitely an unit that I recommend anyone using on Lunatic Conquest. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Nobody

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

I think all units are usable more or less but not in one and the same run because this game is definitely unfriendly to exp. sharing.
When I played Conquest I always used the same characters in each map not to tend to become underleveled. It automatically means that I couldn't unlock lots of the children. I don't even know all FE14 children with their name.
Well, I played this game only fluently and never could finish it in hard mode because I couldn't compensate Camilla's death but these were my impressions of the units's balance.

[FiboSai]

FE4: There is a reason this game is called Horse Emblem. Mounted units are vastly supperios due to the large maps. Hard mode does not change much, all it does is give the enemies smarter AI, but your overpowered units can still overwhelm everything.

FE6: This game does not have an insanely broken unit, but most of the units you can get are outclassed by a select few good units. It is very hard to train the bad units in hard mode, but it is doable and once you get somebode to promote, they are usually good to go. 

FE7: Marcus is very overpowered and invalidates most other units until about 2/3 of the game, when he can easily be replaced by other powerful prepromotes such as Pent and Harken. However, it is much easier to train a weak unit in FE7 HHM than it is in FE6 HM, so most of the cast can be made usable at least.

FE8: Basically the same as FE7. 

FE9: This is another case of Horse Emblem. The map layout and canto make all moutned units supperior to infantry units. Again, since the game is rather easy even on hard mode, almost everyone can be used

FE10: The balance of this game is hard to evaluate, as there are basically 3 different armies using different characters. I still wouldn't call the game balanced, as the balance within each army is not very good, especially in the case of the Dawn Brigade, where many units are terrible on hard mode, and the Laguz royals are all you really need for the final chapter. 

FE11: Roughly 1/3 of the game is good and the other 2/3 are basically useless. The enemy stats on the harder difficulties are so high that it is almost impossible to train the underleveled and understated units you get later than say chapter 8.

FE12: Same as FE11 but even worse because your early units actually have good growths.

FE13: Most characters are viable on hard mode. But this is probably the easiest game to low man because the avatar's veteran skill makes him/her gains so much more experiance that noone (except maybe his/her children) will ever catch up.

FE14: This was my vote for most balanced, at least Conquest is pretty well balanced. While some units are better than others, the game cannot be low manned like FE13, but unlike FE12, everyone is usable or has some niche they can occupy. Birthright is less balanced than Conquest mainly because of Ryoma, and Revelations has the same issues as FE11 and FE12, where half of the cast joins late and underleveled.

FE15: Also pretty balanced, at least at the beginning. Later in the game, the difference in movement between the classes really hurts all infantry classes except dreadfighters.

[Shadow Mir]

38 minutes ago, Nobody said:

All units are usable even on Lunatic, without DLC. Good? Definitely not. Usable? Yes. You can easily use any unit on Conquest Lunatic, and even more so on Hard.

Actually, it boggles my mind that someone would think someone like Silas, Selena, Kaze or Beruka would even be unusable on Lunatic Conquest, because those four units have no problem AT ALL with it. Kaze is actually a great asset to the team and definitely an unit that I recommend anyone using on Lunatic Conquest. 

Heh. I can think of two units who are most definitely more trouble than they're worth - Arthur and Charlotte.

[Nobody]

1 minute ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

Heh. I can think of two units who are most definitely more trouble than they're worth - Arthur and Charlotte.

I HAVE used Arthur on Lunatic. Not a good unit but usable without any effort.

[MisterIceTeaPeach]

... Arthur was my MVP in normal.
I never dreamt of having a locked axe user as #1 in terms of landing kills.

[Shadow Mir]

1 hour ago, Nobody said:

I HAVE used Arthur on Lunatic. Not a good unit but usable without any effort.

Not even the effort needed to make sure Arthur's crit problems don't bite you in the ass??? Because I don't think that you'd be that reckless.

[Køkø]

6 hours ago, Intercopter said:

I just used whatever units I personally liked and enjoyed playing with. Like I said, I can't speak for the usability of every unit, I just used whoever I felt comfortable with, and I had an experience that felt like a fair challenge.

I guess you and I just had different experiences with the game, lol. 

Not to pry too much, could you be more specific? You don't remember exactly who you used? I know Mozu,Arthur,Charlotte, and Kaze weren't on that team for example. Not sure how different our experiences could be, considering Conquest is hard as hell.

 

6 hours ago, Armagon said:

Same. Like, i never used Effie and Benny in my Conquest playthrough. I killed Haitaka instead of capturing him because capturing sucks tbh.

It's been a while since i've played but i rememeber Soleil being one of my MVPs.

On Hard and up? They have the best pair up defense boost in the game, Haitaka and Rallyman are invaluable due to their skill sets. How did you beat chapter 24 Hard/Lunatic with Soliel? How many children did you get? It's hard as hell to support grind on Hard and up. I'm genuinely curious.

 

3 hours ago, Nobody said:

All units are usable even on Lunatic, without DLC. Good? Definitely not. Usable? Yes. You can easily use any unit on Conquest Lunatic, and even more so on Hard.

Actually, it boggles my mind that someone would think someone like Silas, Selena, Kaze or Beruka would even be unusable on Lunatic Conquest, because those four units have no problem AT ALL with it. Kaze is actually a great asset to the team and definitely an unit that I recommend anyone using on Lunatic Conquest. 

I wasn't really talking about Silas and Selena. They're not the best options, but they're viable. Show me your Mozu,Arthur,Charlotte,Beruka,Effie/Benny(No pair-up),Gunter,Nyx,Odin and Kaze on Hard+ please.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Køkø

[Nobody]

2 minutes ago, Køkø said:

I wasn't really talking about Silas and Selena. They're not the best options, but they're viable. Show me your Mozu,Arthur,Charlotte,Beruka,Effie/Benny(No pair-up),Gunter,Nyx,Odin and Kaze on Hard+ please.

Why would one not use pair up when it's there to be used? Anyway, I don't have files with all of those units and I don't know what mere screen shots will prove, but sure, I'll post some of them if you want me to (all on Lunatic/Classic):

http://imgur.com/a/mESk2

I used Odin and Arthur until about chapter 20 in that file (it was a pmu), and after them used them as pair up bots, but I could easily have kept using them instead, since they had no problem with the first 20 or so chapters.

Have you even tried to use those units on hard or lunatic? Because you're literally the first person I've ever seen claiming most of conquest units are unusable on those difficulties. Like, Hard Conquest isn't even hard. Why would those units even be unusable there?

[Køkø]

6 minutes ago, Nobody said:

Why would one not use pair up when it's there to be used? Anyway, I don't have files with all of those units and I don't know what mere screen shots will prove, but sure, I'll post some of them if you want me to (all on Lunatic/Classic):

http://imgmESk2ur.com/a/

I used Odin and Arthur until about chapter 20 in that file (it was a pmu), and after them used them as pair up bots, but I could easily have kept using them instead, since they had no problem with the first 20 or so chapters.

Have you even tried to use those units on hard or lunatic? Because you're literally the first person I've ever seen claiming most of conquest units are unusable on those difficulties. Like, Hard Conquest isn't even hard. Why would those units even be unusable there?

Thank you. What I meant by no pair up was as a unit and not a stat backpack. I use them myself. I didn't say you shouldn't use pair up, and frankly you have no choice. How did you train them? Conquest requires the vast majority of its chapters to be completed quickly. 

Yes, I have. That's how I know who's viable. I see you've reclassed everyone though. You see, the thing about the newer games is that you can get a lot of crazy stuff with reclass shenanigans. Harvey didn't mention anything about reclassing, so if that's counted, then OK. I would think that when talking about unit viability, you would talking about them as they were designed. You even admitted you had to drop them after a certain point even with reclassing. If they were viable why didn't you use them if you could have "easily" done so?  

Conquest Hard is not hard? What do you consider hard dude? I'm interested in your chapter 24 team in particular. And I still don't see Gunter,Mozu,Nyx,Beruka, and Charlotte. The latter actually being really good, but she takes a lot of babying. Something Conquest does not allow without DLC.

[Armagon]

23 minutes ago, Køkø said:

On Hard and up?

Yes. Hard anyway. I don't do Lunatic.

23 minutes ago, Køkø said:

How did you beat chapter 24 on Hard with Soliel?

Ch.24 isn't that hard. Sure, Hinoka's Dragon Vein but just go around the edges and have Camilla slaughter all of the Peg/Falcoknights. 

 

25 minutes ago, Køkø said:

How many children did you get?

I got Soleil, Kana, Shigure, Ophelia and that's it. Went back for the rest after beating the game.

26 minutes ago, Køkø said:

It's hard as hell to support grind on Hard and up.

Not.....really.

4 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Conquest requires the vast majority of its chapters to be completed quickly. 

Unless it's the turn limit chapters, this isn't true.

[Nobody]

15 minutes ago, Køkø said:

How did you train them? Conquest requires the vast majority of its chapters to be completed quickly. 

Yes, I have. That's how I know who's viable. I see you've reclassed everyone though. You see, the thing about the newer games is that you can get a lot of crazy stuff with reclass shenanigans. Harvey didn't mention anything about reclassing, so if that's counted, then OK. I would think that when talking about unit viability, you would talking about them as they were designed. You even admitted you had to drop them after a certain point even with reclassing. If they were viable why didn't you use them if you could have "easily" done so?  

Conquest Hard is not hard? What do you consider hard dude? I'm interested in your chapter 24 team in particular. And I still don't see Gunter,Mozu,Nyx,Beruka, and Charlotte. The latter actually being really good, but she takes a lot of babying. Something Conquest does not allow without DLC.

You have plenty of room to train them. Like, just feed them kills or something. It's not hard, and some units like Arthur don't even need to be fed kills, they can face enemies early on. Odin can also be trained pretty easily through nosferatanking.

Well, I hate to say this, but you sound like you're simply not experienced with Fire Emblem enough. You shouldn't go saying "unit x isn't usable" when most people tell you they are. 
I reclassed those units because it was a PMU playthrough. Arthur would have been better as a Hero and Odin as a Sorcerer. Like, do you really believe Odin would be better as a Butler? Reclassing had nothing to do with their usefullnes. I dropped them simply because I wanted to, but if I really wanted to have kept using them, I would have. It's just that after a certain point in the game, it's better to focus on less units and use others as pair up bots, but had I wanted to use Odin as Arthur as main units, I'd have been able to do so. Also, keep in mind that that was Lunatic. It would even easier to use them on hard. 

Conquest Lunatic is a very nice and fair challenge. As are Lunatic New Mystery of the Emblem, Merciless Shadow Dragon, Hard Binding Blade. Hector Hard Mode and RD Hard are somewhat more challenging than Conquest Hard, but they aren't hard either.

You can totally Baby units in Conquest. Simply weak enemies using your strong units and finish them using your weak ones. People have been doing that in Fire Emblem since 1990. 

Edited August 24, 2017 by Nobody

[Køkø]

41 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Yes. Hard anyway. I don't do Lunatic.

Ch.24 isn't that hard. Sure, Hinoka's Dragon Vein but just go around the edges and have Camilla slaughter all of the Peg/Falcoknights. 

 

I got Soleil, Kana, Shigure, Ophelia and that's it. Went back for the rest after beating the game.

Not.....really.

Unless it's the turn limit chapters, this isn't true.

Not even as a pair up unit? How did you tank hits without a defensive unit? Evasion is not reliable in this game.   

 

Having Camilla slaughter the Sky Knights? With their Silver Yumi and Bolt Naginatas? If you did this, you're a God dude. 

 

How support grinding easy? You can't just pair up who you like, their stats have to be beneficial to the unit. There's also the fact the you don't have a lot of time to do things. Not just on the turn limit chapters, but most of them in general. Chapter 12 for example, you need to get out of there before those Apothecaries catch up.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Køkø

[Armagon]

2 minutes ago, Køkø said:

How did you tank hits without a defensive unit?

Xander/Ike made a pretty good Pair-up team.

3 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Having Camilla slaughter the Sky Knights? With their Silver Yumi and Bolt Naginatas? If you did this, you're a God dude.

Well, the Kinshi Knights, i had Niles take them out. But Bolt Naginantas are still Naginatas, so they are weak to Camilla's axe.

4 minutes ago, Køkø said:

You can't just pair up who you like, their stats have to be beneficial to the unit.

Oh i'm sorry, i wasn't aware that i was required to play optimally.

4 minutes ago, Køkø said:

Chapter 12 for example, you need to get out there before those Apothecaries catch up.

Those Apothecaries are bit tough but not too much to handle. Just try to break as little pots as possible. The Dragon's Vein on that map is a curse.

[Shadow Mir]

26 minutes ago, Køkø said:

And I still don't see Gunter,Mozu,Nyx,Beruka, and Charlotte. The latter actually being really good, but she takes a lot of babying. Something Conquest does not allow without DLC.

I disagree on Miss Whiffsalot - she starts out underleveled to the point of being far more trouble than she's worth, and her class does her no favours whatsoever.

[Køkø]

28 minutes ago, Nobody said:

You have plenty of room to train them. Like, just feed them kills or something. It's not hard, and some units like Arthur don't even need to be fed kills, they can face enemies early on. Odin can also be trained pretty easily through nosferatanking.

Well, I hate to say this, but you sound like you're simply not experienced with Fire Emblem enough. You shouldn't go saying "unit x isn't usable" when most people tell you they are. 
I reclassed those units because it was a PMU playthrough. Arthur would have been better as a Hero and Odin as a Sorcerer. Like, do you really believe Odin would be better as a Butler? Reclassing had nothing to do with their usefullnes. I dropped them simply because I wanted to, but if I really wanted to have kept using them, I would have. It's just that after a certain point in the game, it's better to focus on less units and use others as pair up bots, but had I wanted to use Odin as Arthur as main units, I'd have been able to do so. Also, keep in mind that that was Lunatic. It would even easier to use them on hard. 

Conquest Lunatic is a very nice and fair challenge. As are Lunatic New Mystery of the Emblem, Merciless Shadow Dragon, Hard Binding Blade. Hector Hard Mode and RD Hard are somewhat more challenging than Conquest Hard, but they aren't hard either.

You can totally Baby units in Conquest. Simply weak enemies using your strong units and finish them using your weak ones. People have been doing that in Fire Emblem since 1990. 

Early in the game Arthur can be fed kills, but post chapter 9? The game ain't screwing around no more. Nosferatu tanking is a thing, but there's still accuracy issues. There's a point in the game where it throws a lot debuff enemies at you, so I don't know how far you can go with that. 

Considering Awakening and Fates are pretty different from the majority of the games, I don't think prior experience is too crucial. Though I've been playing for almost a decade with every game released, so if that's not experience, I don't know what is. 

 

You can refer to my earlier post on reclassing. Are you thinking about using them sometime? If you don't mind, I'd like to see.  

I'd really like to see what you did with Mozu and Gunter.

 

 

22 minutes ago, Armagon said:

Xander/Ike made a pretty good Pair-up team.

Well, the Kinshi Knights, i had Niles take them out. But Bolt Naginantas are still Naginatas, so they are weak to Camilla's axe.

Oh i'm sorry, i wasn't aware that i was required to play optimally.

Those Apothecaries are bit tough but not too much to handle. Just try to break as little pots as possible. The Dragon's Vein on that map is a curse.

Amiibo count as DLC. Look at my earlier post regarding that.  

Those Sky Knights are EVERYWHERE. With ridiculous range, Azama's Hexing Rod shenanigans, Setsuna, and debuff enemies everywhere, reinforcments, and Hinoka is not going down quickly. Niles is not tanking anything, and it isn't a matter of divide and conquer. Are we playing the same game? 

In a conversation of viability, isn't optimality everything? 

Not breaking the pots is good way of making things harder for yourself. The Dragon Vein is there for a reason. 

 

 

14 minutes ago, Levant Mir Celestia said:

I disagree on Miss Whiffsalot - she starts out underleveled to the point of being far more trouble than she's worth, and her class does her no favours whatsoever.

I got some experience on her, and she turned into a crit monster. Though you can pretty much turn anyone in Fates into a monster under the right conditions.

Edited August 24, 2017 by Køkø