Voting Gauntlet: Choose Your Legends!

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

If you've got a 3ds, why not find out?

I don't play Smash 3DS anymore. Haven't in forever. I only play the Wii U version. And even that one I actually haven't touched in awhile. xP And besides, I just said I've seen everything Roy's got to offer.

[Clogon]

A new system will need to fix all of the below without introducing other issues.

player engagement:

1) mode become predictable and it just becomes a boring grind for feathers.

2) people who have less time to play throughout the day will get even less feathers. Atm, you can predict when the multiplier will happen and get a good amount of feathers from that making you want to play at least during those times.

3) hopeless battles are not fun.

 

Banwagoning winners for free feathers:

Since you have no chance to play every 30mins, why not just play onces with the winner and get free feathers? You are not gonna get any high ranks anyways.

 

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

One possible solution: significantly raise the ranking rewards for within your own team. 

This solves only 1 problem (people bandwagoning expected winners for feathers) and introduces multiple different issues:

1) Reduces the value of feathers. More feathers = each feather has less value (lesson in econnomics: this is how inflation works. See what happened to germany after WW1 when they decided to print more money).

2) This reduces the rarity and value of a 5* unit. IS will have to make even more 5* exclusives to alleviate the deflation of a 5* unit making getting future characters even harder to get.

3) This reduces the rarity and value of a 5* skill. Less of an issue since most of the new skills are locked to 5* already. But will give IS even less reasons to release 4* skills.

4) because we have stronger units (via promotion and SI thanks to more feathers), IS will need to make even harder content to keep the game challenging which are even less winnable with 3* free units.

This punishes the F2P player in the long term.

48 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

I think one way we could do this is to scrap the tournament setup. Make it everyone vs everyone instead and we'd have just a single round that spanned 8 days. We'd probably still see some curbstomps here and there this way, but not as many as when we had no multiplier. At the end of the 8 days, the rewards are given out based on how each team ranked. The winning team gets the victory feathers plus whatever feathers they managed to get by scoring. Second place gets a slightly smaller amount of second place achievement feathers plus whatever feathers they earned with their scores, and so on. Only 5th place and below would not get achievement feathers.

Another nice thing about this: No one would be forced to change teams in the middle of it all since no one is losing until the very end of the gauntlet.

But then how would the multiplier work, exactly? Well, a team would only get it if they fell at least 10% behind EVERYONE there. All of the other seven teams.

 

This does not fix any of the 2 problems that come with the removal of the multiplier.

An elongated 8 day event free for all is no different from TT's grind for rewards. It is boring. The current 2 day cycle means you need to play at least once every two days. Else, you will lose out on quite a bit of free stuff.

In this proposal, you have even more reason to banwagon the expected winner since people from teams 5-8 gets nothing. With the elimination of teams, people who lost still has a chance of gaining feathers from switching sides.

 

 

Edited September 2, 2017 by Clogon

[Rezzy]

4 minutes ago, Paris said:

Alright then, my flags will continue to be reserved for Lyn v.s Ike. I'm pleased that Lyn is doing so well because she's the only female who hasn't won a voting guantlet and pre 3ds character. 

Not sure if I should be surprised that Tharja vs. Camilla have the least interesting battle so far (in terms of votes). 

I'll get some popcorn. 

It would be nice to smash the matriarchy and see a boy win for a change.  If Lyn is ever in a future gauntlet, she'll probably win.  Ike is the only one who would really give her a challenge.

[HK Motendra]

8 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

How r00d

If you wanna settle it in Smash I'll show you a side o' the boy u never seen!

FINALLY, I'VE WAITED ALL ROUND FOR THIS!!

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Clogon said:

In this proposal, you have even more reason to banwagon the expected winner since people from teams 5-8 gets nothing. With the elimination of teams, people who lost still has a chance of gaining feathers from switching sides.

Uh, no, I didn't say teams in 5th-8th place wouldn't get ANY feathers at all. They would only get the ones they would get based on their individual ranks. They simply wouldn't earn feathers for how their team placed.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, Anacybele said:

I don't play Smash 3DS anymore. Haven't in forever. I only play the Wii U version. And even that one I actually haven't touched in awhile. xP And besides, I just said I've seen everything Roy's got to offer.

Laaaaaame

For the record, I'm not your run of the mill Roy. My score in classic is pretty great, and I did the no death Wii U challenge. Been puttin' the Roy time in since Melee, hot dawg.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Laaaaaame

For the record, I'm not your run of the mill Roy. My score in classic is pretty great, and I did the no death Wii U challenge. Been puttin' the Roy time in since Melee, hot dawg.

That doesn't mean anything. Show me how well you've done against good human players and we'll talk. :P I'm not saying I'm an expert player myself though. I can beat people on occasion, but not a whole lot, sadly.

[kcirrot]

5 hours ago, omegaxis1 said:

To those that think that there's zero chances for Lyn to lose, guess again. All it will need is a single multiplier that will come right around the corner, and Lucina will have immediately tip the scales.

Lyn has only had a slight advantage the whole match.  Lyn right now is up by 314 million.  You need a 460 million point lead to trigger a multiplier.  This is only the first round, that's a lot to do in 2 hours.  I fully expect that Lyn players are hoarding their flags because there's no need at this point to do anything other than coast.  I got a few of the early game multipliers and haven't moved out of the top 1000 barely playing.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, Anacybele said:

That doesn't mean anything. Show me how well you've done against good human players and we'll talk. :P I'm not saying I'm an expert player myself though. I can beat people on occasion, but not a whole lot, sadly.

And you turning down the challenge means even less, sadly. So I guess we'll never know. I beat people a lot more than on "occasion".

There really is no good metric of judging unless you play, and Ike apparently doesn't have the stones.

[Ice Dragon]

1 hour ago, Rezzy said:

One possible solution: significantly raise the ranking rewards for within your own team.  People who just want feathers can hop on the underdog team will have an easier time getting feathers, since competing against 10 thousand other players will give you an easier time ranking higher than be against 100 thousand other players.  Then people who just want to support their unit don't feel they are being cheated, and the underdog gets a nice consolation prize.  I don't mind tinkering with the system, but as it is now, I don't like it.

Due to how the sizes of the teams scale (roughly logarithmically instead of linearly), being on the larger team doesn't put you at a significant disadvantage due to the existence of the victory reward, which is greater than the gap between two adjacent tiers.

Assuming a size difference of a factor of 4 between the winning and losing team, the rewards are virtually even:

• Rank 1,000 on the losing team is 2,500 feathers. Rank 4,000 on the winning team is 2,600 feathers.
• Rank 2,000 on the losing team is 2,100 feathers. Rank 8,000 on the winning team is 2,200 feathers.
• Rank 5,000 on the losing team is 2,100 feathers. Rank 20,000, on the winning team is 1,800 feathers.
• Rank 10,000 on the losing team is 1,700 feathers. Rank 40,000 on the winning team is 1,600 feathers.
• Rank 20,000 on the losing team is 1,300 feathers, Rank 80,000 on the winning team is 1,200 feathers.
• Rank 50,000 on the losing team is 1,100 feathers. Rank 200,000 on the winning team is 1,000 feathers.

With closer matches (a factor of 1.5 or 2 is common in non-blowouts), the rewards are more in favor of the winning team.

Removing the multiplier and increasing the team ranking rewards (and not the cumulative ranking rewards) basically just puts us back in the same situation as the first two Voting Gauntlets where any match that isn't a complete blow-out favors the winning team for rewards, and any match where a player isn't going to be placing well regardless (due to lack of time to play or lack of enthusiasm to play) favors the winning team for rewards (because if you're expecting to rank below 50,000 on the losing team anyways, it's advantageous to simply rank below 100,000 on the winning team and pick up the victory feathers).

 

1 hour ago, Tybrosion said:

@Ice Dragon, I respect you and your thoughts about this. However, I already made it plainly clear that nothing will change how I feel about the multiplier so I'd appreciate it if you would just let it be. I also want to stop talking about it and avoid spreading any further negativity since I feel that I've said more than enough about the matter.

My main point is, if you're going to be negative, at least be constructive about your negativity so I can crush your idea to the ground.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[bethany81707]

4 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Laaaaaame

For the record, I'm not your run of the mill Roy. My score in classic is pretty great, and I did the no death Wii U challenge. Been puttin' the Roy time in since Melee, hot dawg.

I'm pretty nifty with a Roy myself.

Can we still save replays in 3DS, and then share them? I'd consider taking you on.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 minute ago, phineas81707 said:

I'm pretty nifty with a Roy myself.

Can we still save replays in 3DS, and then share them? I'd consider taking you on.

I wouldn't mind! I'm also pretty nifty with Ike myself, after the dark times of Brawl. I wish I was better with Marth. 

[Anacybele]

2 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

And you turning down the challenge means even less, sadly. So I guess we'll never know. I beat people a lot more than on "occasion".

There really is no good metric of judging unless you play, and Ike apparently doesn't have the stones.

Then we know who would win in a match between us. :P I'm rusty, you're implying that you're not. So you'd surely beat me. Problem solved!

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Due to how the sizes of the teams scale (roughly logarithmically instead of linearly), being on the larger team doesn't put you at a significant disadvantage due to the existence of the victory reward, which is greater than the gap between two adjacent tiers.

Assuming a size difference of a factor of 4 between the winning and losing team, the rewards are virtually even:

• Rank 1,000 on the losing team is 2,500 feathers. Rank 4,000 on the winning team is 2,600 feathers.
• Rank 2,000 on the losing team is 2,100 feathers. Rank 8,000 on the winning team is 2,200 feathers.
• Rank 5,000 on the losing team is 2,100 feathers. Rank 20,000, on the winning team is 1,800 feathers.
• Rank 10,000 on the losing team is 1,700 feathers. Rank 40,000 on the winning team is 1,600 feathers.
• Rank 20,000 on the losing team is 1,300 feathers, Rank 80,000 on the winning team is 1,200 feathers.
• Rank 50,000 on the losing team is 1,100 feathers. Rank 200,000 on the winning team is 1,000 feathers.

With closer matches (a factor of 1.5 or 2 is common in non-blowouts), the rewards are more in favor of the winning team.

Removing the multiplier and increasing the team ranking rewards (and not the cumulative ranking rewards) basically just puts us back in the same situation as the first two Voting Gauntlets where any match that isn't a complete blow-out favors the winning team for rewards, and any match where a player isn't going to be placing well regardless (due to lack of time to play or lack of enthusiasm to play) favors the winning team for rewards (because if you're expecting to rank below 50,000 on the losing team anyways, it's advantageous to simply rank below 100,000 on the winning team and pick up the victory feathers).

 

My main point is, if you're going to be negative, at least be constructive about your negativity.

Would increasing the rank feathers make the losing team more appealing though.  There would likely be a factor that the could increase the ranking rewards by the make that side more appealing, maybe even remove the victory feathers, so you're just winning bragging rights.

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, Anacybele said:

Then we know who would win in a match between us. :P I'm rusty, you're implying that you're not. So you'd surely beat me. Problem solved!

I actually haven't played in months either, lol, but playing Smash since melee at least gives you a core sense after the rust.

I was only trying to have fun anyway.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I actually haven't played in months either, lol, but playing Smash since melee at least gives you a core sense after the rust.

I was only trying to have fun anyway.

Yeah, I know. :P

[Hawk King]

16 minutes ago, phineas81707 said:

How should I word the feedback to change the way the friend unit is picked such that there isn't an overwhelming bias? I don't even know how the friendly is picked!

Just be like "Hey, I and everyone else in the Heroes community have noticed that we get the same 3 friends heroes in all of our gauntlet battles. Could you guys maybe change this or explain how it works? I would like to be able to use my other friends heroes without having to delete the ones that I seem to get stuck with."

[bethany81707]

2 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Then we know who would win in a match between us. :P I'm rusty, you're implying that you're not. So you'd surely beat me. Problem solved!

I'm rusty too. We're all rusty.

3 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I wouldn't mind! I'm also pretty nifty with Ike myself, after the dark times of Brawl. I wish I was better with Marth. 

Then a best of three, with us switching parties each round?

[ChibiToastExplosion]

Just now, phineas81707 said:

I'm rusty too. We're all rusty.

Then a best of three, with us switching parties each round?

I'll grab my ds! :D

[Rezzy]

2 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Just be like "Hey, I and everyone else in the Heroes community have noticed that we get the same 3 friends heroes in all of our gauntlet battles. Could you guys maybe change this or explain how it works? I would like to be able to use my other friends heroes without having to delete the ones that I seem to get stuck with."

"Hi, my friend Ike said he needed a place to crash for the weekend.  Now, it's four weeks later, and he's still sleeping on my couch.  I like Ike and value him as a friend, but I want to spend time with my other friends, too, and if I leave him alone in the house, I come back to an empty fridge.  Please help."

[Ice Dragon]

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

Would increasing the rank feathers make the losing team more appealing though.  There would likely be a factor that the could increase the ranking rewards by the make that side more appealing, maybe even remove the victory feathers, so you're just winning bragging rights.

Trying to make the losing team outright more appealing than the winning team shits on the players who support the character who will probably win because they actually do like that character. And players who are supporting a character because they like the character are the ones you want to avoid shitting on as much as possible because those are likely your most engaged players.

[HK Motendra]

Really, the only solution I see to the Voting Gauntlet is to make scoring and battles something akin to the Tempest Trials. The only real difference being is that you're not just playing for your own individual score, and but for the team as well, along with only playing one battle at a time. This way, people can play at their own pace, yet still be able to rack up a decent score for the day, if they tried

Along with this, instead of randomly being assigned units, players would have the option to pick their three-man teams based on who on their respective teams is online at the time, or the most recently. Of course, people that you are friends with get a priority in your option pool than those that arent. Although there may be a flaw in this, considering what times of the day may have an effect on your performance, but I believe it to be a cool idea nonetheless.

8 minutes ago, Anacybele said:

Then we know who would win in a match between us. :P I'm rusty, you're implying that you're not. So you'd surely beat me. Problem solved!

WHAT INSOLENCE TO IKE'S HONOR! YOU WOULD CLAIM TO BE HIS #1 FAN, YET BACK DOWN FROM A FIGHT?! TELL ME, WOULD IKE EVER BACK DOWN TO ANYONE? NO, AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU! FIGHT ON, FIGHT FOR YOUR FRIENDS, FIGHT FOR YOUR MERCENARY COMPANIONS, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, FIGHT FOR YOUR CHAMPION!!!!

Edited September 2, 2017 by Motendra

[kcirrot]

12 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Removing the multiplier and increasing the team ranking rewards (and not the cumulative ranking rewards) basically just puts us back in the same situation as the first two Voting Gauntlets where any match that isn't a complete blow-out favors the winning team for rewards, and any match where a player isn't going to be placing well regardless (due to lack of time to play or lack of enthusiasm to play) favors the winning team for rewards (because if you're expecting to rank below 50,000 on the losing team anyways, it's advantageous to simply rank below 100,000 on the winning team and pick up the victory feathers).

I fail to see any problem with the winning team, you know actually winning.  *Shrug*

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, Motendra said:

WHAT INSOLENCE TO IKE'S HONOR! YOU WOULD CLAIM TO BE HIS #1 FAN, YET BACK DOWN FROM A FIGHT?! TELL ME, WOULD IKE EVER BACK DOWN TO ANYONE? NO, AND NEITHER SHOULD YOU! FIGHT ON, FIGHT FOR YOUR FRIENDS, FIGHT FOR YOUR MERCENARY COMPANIONS, BUT MOST IMPORTANTLY, FIGHT FOR YOUR CHAMPION!!!!

I literally can't fight this one though, since I don't play the 3DS version of Smash anymore. xP And if I'm rusty at even the Wii U version, I'll be absolutely awful in the 3DS version. I'd be doing Ike an even poorer honor by going into a losing battle like that! lol

[bethany81707]

7 minutes ago, Hawk King said:

Just be like "Hey, I and everyone else in the Heroes community have noticed that we get the same 3 friends heroes in all of our gauntlet battles. Could you guys maybe change this or explain how it works? I would like to be able to use my other friends heroes without having to delete the ones that I seem to get stuck with."

Pardon me, I'm a bit dumb... where's the Feedback button? I lost it...