Voting Gauntlet: Choose Your Legends!

[Kaden]

Y'know, I'm really curious about how many people are on Hector and Chrom's teams. Both seem kind of small with Chrom probably being smaller since I remember Chrom getting multiple multipliers while I've only seen two for Hector. I say this since it's kind of odd to be at rank 3,494 with a 234,500 score. Usually, I'd be around rank 10k instead. I think rank 14k yesterday wasn't even that high; maybe 60k to 90k-something which happened after the first multiplier I was a part of for Hector.

Also, apologies to anyone who had their random teammate be a 4* Azama with Fortress Def 3. That was probably me. :p

Edited September 2, 2017 by Kaden

[Tactician_Iris]

 

1 hour ago, Ice Dragon said:

I'm starting to get sick of people constantly whining about the multiplier mechanic without giving an actually viable alternative suggestion. And I'll be happy to help shoot those down for you because most, if not all, of the suggestions I've seen fail to address the core issues with how Voting Gauntlets function as a game mode.

Well, I would favour a game mode that is fair towards individual player's scores and by extension their rewards - to the point that no matter their timezone or their chosen Team's success their individual score is tied to how much the game is played instead.

To achieve the closest thing possible to that (as the Gauntlet currently stands) would be to remove the Victory Feathers, mitigating curbstomp prophecies, and not have the multiplier affect the individual score.

While you can't do away entirely with people joining a team for an easy rank, one can at least mitigate it by not having that type of bandwagoning affecting ranks by means of an inflated score to the point that they currently do.

27 minutes ago, Ice Dragon said:

Trying to make the losing team outright more appealing than the winning team shits on the players who support the character who will probably win because they actually do like that character. And players who are supporting a character because they like the character are the ones you want to avoid shitting on as much as possible because those are likely your most engaged players.

This is already happening in a sense - having a nigh impossible chance of ranking high on both your team and on the cumulative score compared to the player who doesn't care one fig besides their net reward, is bound to ruffle...quite a number of feathers. I 100% swear that pun was unintended
 

1 hour ago, NekoKnight said:

Oh, I agree it's a very flawed mode, I just think it less flawed (or differently flawed) than zero multipliers.

I think the mode should do away with team size (by dividing the support by the number of players on that team) and focus on the performance of its members. Limited turn count and higher survival would be the metrics of how much support you can give and flags would multiply it further.

Something akin to this might work, the snag that I see (as it's currently presented) is that tying score to performance means those impossible matchups can put a real damper on things quick - there would need to be tweaking to whom you can pick as your ally and how matchups are done in that case.

One way to work with that would be to pre-view a match like the Tempest Trials or Arena Assault (with one enemy remaining hidden) and then you get to pick one ally from your friendlist (if no friend exists you would get to pick between a matched set of random allies), and the last ally would still be random.  

That way you would:

• Still get to borrow a unit from someone else which is one of the draws of this mode from a gameplay POV. 
• You would more heavily favour strategic matchups as opposed to complete random ones- the "impossible" matches would be reduced by good chunk this way.
• The Friendlist's purpose will feel more meaningful - even when all you've added are random arena opponents, now you'd need to be selective on who is on that list.

Alternatively, you could still keep the ally selection as-is and instead add the same kind of items that Arena Assault uses as Quest awards for the Gauntlet (and restrict them to the Gauntlet like the flags).

 

[Ice Dragon]

18 minutes ago, kcirrot said:

Still not seeing what problem you're trying to fix.  People did participate before we had the mechanic.   Sure some people check out and pick the obvious winner, but that hasn't changed one bit.  The multiplier does exactly nothing to fix that.  If anything it makes it worse.  I've barely played the Lyn v. Lucina round because I couldn't sleep when it started early Thursday morning.  Thus in the yo yo that the multiplier causes in the first few hours, I managed to build up enough of a score that I'm basically locked into the top 1000.  And I get to save my remaining flags.  That's just dumb and unfair even though I'm benefiting from it.

The only reason to play this game is for fun, and competitions that aren't fair aren't fun.  Nothing kills interest more than a game that's meaningless.

Your example is pretty easily countered.

With the multiplier, kind-of-close matches (<20% size difference) turn into snore-fests where once the larger team takes the lead, they'll have it forever, but it makes matches with greater size differences more interesting due to having multipliers more often.

The comparison to make was that previously, every match with more than about a 5% size difference was a snore-fest because the winner was basically decided and no amount of rallying by the smaller team would be worth anything.

Essentially, it's a trade-off where more matches will be interesting and fewer matches will be snore-fests because it's much, much harder to engineer a bracket where all matches are close matches than it is to put any eight characters together and watch them go.

 

13 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

What changes would you suggest.  In the past you noted that both sides benefit by not playing at all and just waiting for the multiplier.  I've thought of a few possibilities, and believe there are ways to make it better than it is.  "Shits on the favorites" were your words, not my original phrase.

Honestly, I have no idea. There are a lot of factors to balance, and I don't think any of my own ideas are that much better than what we have now because they each have their own faults.

 

16 minutes ago, kcirrot said:

Literally even the possibility that an upset can occur "shits on the favorites."  

13 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

Yeah, if the Cubs lost the World Series due to a blown call in Game 7 last year, it would have been one time too many.

"Real" sports have a lot of things that can cause upsets as well. I surprise interception or an injury can turn the tide of a game, and both are arguably as much a part of the sport as the current multiplier mechanic is a part of the Voting Gauntlet game mode.

I don't see how the multiplier existing is any more artificial or arbitrary than having to hand the ball off to the other team if you fail to advance 10 yards in 4 plays.

Edited September 2, 2017 by Ice Dragon

[ChibiToastExplosion]

4 hours ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Why not have a 1 battle, slightly difficult so that a person who just started the app can't just create accounts to beat, and have 1 vote cast for that victory - and that be it?

Can't do the battle multiple times for multiple votes (or if you can, it gets harder and harder each time).

Because ideas are being tossed about

(Also, Smashing was fun, people should have fun, lighten up)

[Rezzy]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

Your example is pretty easily countered.

With the multiplier, kind-of-close matches (<20% size difference) into snore-fests where once the larger team takes the lead, they'll have it forever, but it makes matches with greater size differences more interesting due to having multipliers more often.

The comparison to make was that previously, every match with more than about a 5% size difference was a snore-fest because the winner was basically decided and no amount of rallying by the smaller team would be worth anything.

Essentially, it's a trade-off where more matches will be interesting and fewer matches will be snore-fests because it's much, much harder to engineer a bracket where all matches are close matches than it is to put any eight characters together and watch them go.

 

Honestly, I have no idea. There are a lot of factors to balance, and I don't think any of my own ideas are that much better than what we have now because they each have their own faults.

 

"Real" sports have a lot of things that can cause upsets as well. I surprise interception or an injury can turn the tide of a game, and both are arguably as much a part of the sport as the current multiplier mechanic is a part of the Voting Gauntlet game mode.

I don't see how the multiplier existing is any more artificial or arbitrary than having to hand the ball off to the other team if you fail to advance 10 yards in 4 plays.

I think a better analogy is saying that if a football team gets more than 20 points behind, they suddenly have their touchdowns worth 18 points.  I can't think of any professional sports that penalize a team for doing well.

The Gauntlet has changed already, so I hope that it will continue to change.

[Astellius]

33 minutes ago, Tybrosion said:

She's been working out great so I'll leave it up to you on whether you want to switch her out for Brave!Lucina or someone else.

I'm happy to hear that! I put a lot of work into her (I literally spent two 5* characters to give her the skills she has), so I'm glad she's been good for you!

As for swapping her out for Brave Lucina, well, I was just wondering if people wanted the opportunity to use her. I spent several hours grinding SP for her, so now she wields Aether, Reposition, Fury 3, Desperation 3, and Drive Spd 2. She's a new character, and I've spent a lot of time training her. I'm happy either way, so I'm open for suggestions, if you wanted to try out playing the new Lucina. Let me know!

[HK Motendra]

1 hour ago, Motendra said:

Really, the only solution I see to the Voting Gauntlet is to make scoring and battles something akin to the Tempest Trials. The only real difference being is that you're not just playing for your own individual score, and but for the team as well, along with only playing one battle at a time. This way, people can play at their own pace, yet still be able to rack up a decent score for the day, if they tried

Along with this, instead of randomly being assigned units, players would have the option to pick their three-man teams based on who on their respective teams is online at the time, or the most recently. Of course, people that you are friends with get a priority in your option pool than those that arent. Although there may be a flaw in this, considering what times of the day may have an effect on your performance, but I believe it to be a cool idea nonetheless.

Since y'all wanna sleep on me, this was what I had suggested earlier

 

3 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

Because ideas are being tossed about

(Also, Smashing was fun, people should have fun, lighten up)

I wish I had people to play Smash with. Nowadays, it just sits there in its box, unless I'm back in college

[Arthur97]

25 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Thanks for the realism, but let me have this moment. Chrom vs Hector has been lit throughout for me, yet for some reason NO ONE's talking about it

Dafuq, where mah team at?

Chrom supporters? Probably sitting at home not on a forum. As for me, I'm hoping that my concerns are overblown and this whole situation will change nothing in the long run as well as reign in my salt and disappointment. But if you somehow pull off a miracle, count me in.

2 minutes ago, Motendra said:

I wish I had people to play Smash with. Nowadays, it just sits there in its box, unless I'm back in college

I don't have anyone to play with either. My only friend who plays it...well, I'm significantly better than him these days so it's not that fun.

[pumpkinspice48]

31 minutes ago, Motendra said:

Thanks for the realism, but let me have this moment. Chrom vs Hector has been lit throughout for me, yet for some reason NO ONE's talking about it

Dafuq, where mah team at?

It's probably because Chrom and Hector is relatively small scale compared to the other battles.  In the wyvern/pegasi gauntlet Beruka vs Subaki was really close but no one really talked about it because both teams were so small.

[Anacybele]

NO ROY MULTIPLIER, IKE WINS! WOOT! :D

Buh-BYE ROY! You can't screw with the mightiest hero!

Ike: I'm...the mightiest?

Me: Yeah, Ike! Many consider you the strongest of all these heroes! Alfonse and Sharena even said the same!

Ike: I...huh. Wow. I know I'm not a pushover or anything, but not really THAT strong. I thank all of you then. I hope my father is proud.

Me: Oh, he definitely should be. *smile*

Edited September 2, 2017 by Anacybele

[Ice Dragon]

7 minutes ago, Rezzy said:

I think a better analogy is saying that if a football team gets more than 20 points behind, they suddenly have their touchdowns worth 18 points.  I can't think of any professional sports that penalize a team for doing well.

The Gauntlet has changed already, so I hope that it will continue to change.

My point is that game mechanics are game mechanics whether or not they seem forced or arbitrary.

Professional sports are generally played between players of comparable skill (i.e. score differentials in sports with constant scoring, like basketball, tend to fall in the <20% range), but if you have a little league team playing against a professional team, you're going to be giving the professional team a handicap because it wouldn't be interesting to watch said game without a handicap to make it interesting. In this case, a handicap gives the audience something to watch that isn't a curb-stomp and the players a goal to overcome.

[HK Motendra]

2 minutes ago, Arthur97 said:

Chrom supporters? Probably sitting at home not on a forum. As for me, I'm hoping that my concerns are overblown and this whole situation will change nothing in the long run as well as reign in my salt and disappointment. But if you somehow pull off a miracle, count me in.

I don't have anyone to play with either. My only friend who plays it...well, I'm significantly better than him these days so it's not that fun.

The score just updated again. Apparently I spoke too soon. Iss over

My bro has it as well on 3ds but he never plays it at all. Which is a shame, considering the lengths I took to get him one

1 minute ago, pumpkinspice48 said:

It's probably because Chrom and Hector is relatively small scale compared to the other battles.  In the wyvern/pegasi gauntlet Beruka vs Subaki was really close but no one really talked about it because both teams were so small.

But what about SF? It literally seems like I'm the only one on the team that's actually posting. Compared to me my lonesome, even Camilla seems larger by comparison

[ChibiToastExplosion]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

NO ROY MULTIPLIER, IKE WINS! WOOT! :D

Buh-BYE ROY! You can't screw with the mightiest hero!

I congratulate you!

But, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldn't like it if we celebrated like that.

"Everyone may play the game, but only one can be the best; all who play must play with honor"

[Rezzy]

1 minute ago, Anacybele said:

NO ROY MULTIPLIER, IKE WINS! WOOT! :D

Buh-BYE ROY! You can't screw with the mightiest hero!

I'm glad we won, but I won't gloat.  Roy, you were a worthy opponent.  I bear Roy no ill will, just the mechanics.

[Anacybele]

1 minute ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I congratulate you!

But, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldn't like it if we celebrated like that.

"Everyone may play the game, but only one can be the best; all who play must play with honor"

Hey, I'm just having fun. And I wouldn't complain if you celebrated like that. Cause I say again, it's just all in good fun. Though I'd be disappointed, of course. xP

1 minute ago, Rezzy said:

I'm glad we won, but I won't gloat.  Roy, you were a worthy opponent.  I bear Roy no ill will, just the mechanics.

Oh, I know, I don't seriously mean to tease Roy fans or anything. I'm moreso joking than anything, honestly. :P I don't care for Roy much, so I'm just messing around with that.

[a bear]

1 minute ago, Ice Dragon said:

My point is that game mechanics are game mechanics whether or not they seem forced or arbitrary.

Professional sports are generally played between players of comparable skill (i.e. score differentials in sports with constant scoring, like basketball, tend to fall in the <20% range), but if you have a little league team playing against a professional team, you're going to be giving the professional team a handicap because it wouldn't be interesting to watch said game without a handicap to make it interesting. In this case, a handicap gives the audience something to watch that isn't a curb-stomp and the players a goal to overcome.

Also sports being based off of skill, where LeBron and Gretzky can still honk it on a given night even if they're generally dominant. The VG being a popularity contest is the most fair way of scoring (why else should Lyn beat Lucina?), and it's a slog after the first few hours when scores move in a straight line.

[mcsilas]

Oh wow, just under 10,000 rank for Team Hector :O

Maybe Ill just spend a bit of flags to go to the next feather/ranking tier..

[Railgun]

I'm glad Ike is heading to the next round. Going to be tough for us on Team Hector, but we'll give it all we got. :D

Even if Hector loses I'll join Ike's team because I like Ike. :D

[Poimagic]

Lucina players. It was a fun war, but us Lyn supporters won out. But good game nonetheless.

[EricaofRenais]

Looks like my big sis is going on to the next round : )   That was a fun close round for once but I am happy Lyn won.

[Jingle Jangle]

Well, if Tharja loses,I have fun this round. Seeing my two favorite females compete against each other. Besides, they already won a gauntlet. Props to Team Camilla for just being out the range for a final multiplier.  

[Arthur97]

So, guess it's Hector for me. Anyone here want a brave hero? Or Nino? Or sword (Ike) slaying Robin? Level 14 Lilina cause Hector (I just got her recently)?

[Astellius]

4 minutes ago, ChibiToastExplosion said:

I congratulate you!

But, if the shoe was on the other foot, you wouldn't like it if we celebrated like that.

"Everyone may play the game, but only one can be the best; all who play must play with honor"

Okay, but the size of Ike's team was between 5-10x larger than Roys, so this really shouldn't have been close. She's just celebrating the fact that there was no absurd multiplier. Ike's win was potentially questioned due to the possibility of the mulitiplier. But that didn't come to pass. And then she didn't say anything mean, rude, or whatever. So why are you trying to chastise her over something silly like that?

[HK Motendra]

Man... I went and burnt out on this round, alone. Think I might just chill this round and through everything out in the finals

[Anacybele]

3 minutes ago, Astellius said:

Okay, but the size of Ike's team was between 5-10x larger than Roys, so this really shouldn't have been close. She's just celebrating the fact that there was no absurd multiplier. Ike's win was potentially questioned due to the possibility of the mulitiplier. But that didn't come to pass. And then she didn't say anything mean, rude, or whatever. So why are you trying to chastise her over something silly like that?

This too, kinda, but hey, it's cool, man. :P I'm not upset. Hell, I'm too happy to be upset!