The current roster (Spoilers!)

[Folt]

35 minutes ago, Anomalocaris said:

So people went and spoiled the roster for me like a bunch of douches, so I now have no reason not to come to this thread.

Three evil sorcerors as the villain representation is a bit disappointing. RIP Walhart and Garon. Though there is a certain someone who is disproportionately excited about Iago's presence, I know, so that's good.

Owain, Niles, Oboro, and Navarre are all odd to leave as just NPCs, but I assume they'll be made playable as a free update. Especially Oboro if she has a fully unique moveset. I assume Owain and Navarre are the same as Lyn, and Niles is the same as Taco Meat? Also rather surprised we didn't get an Armor Knight, unless Kellam is in the game and everybody is just pretending he isn't.

From what I've heard, Owain uses Ryoma's moveset and Navarre uses Lyn's moveset (or it's probably safer to say that it's Lyn who's using Navarre's moveset because dual wielding is actually moreso his forté? Maybe find someone to translate the artbook because I've heard it confirm stuff like Celica being a very last-minute addition or at least worked on the last out of all the playables). Niles is the same as Takumi and Oboro's is unique.

[Timeman]

12 hours ago, IEatLasers said:

I think it would be cool too. 

 

Especiallt if Validar and Robin got supports. And all the villains would likely support each other..

 

but thats be easier to do with say, Gangrel, who actually gets to support Robin in game 

That would be interesting... Also, I'm curious in how a potential Iago-Xander and Iago-Corrin supports can be. Also maybe Gharnef-Marth (although I've never played SD).

[Kataya]

On 9/30/2017 at 5:34 PM, Azz said:

So here's Hoshido Noble M!Corrin and honestly, he's fucking beautiful.

  Reveal hidden contents

 

HOLY MOLY. I mean, Corrin F was always super cute and beautiful. But finally a handsome Corrin M. He just kinda looked so meh, in the Fates games, but they really got him awesome! I only need the Bla- NO MY Black Knight, then I can forgive that so many other chars didn't made it into the game >_>

[nocturnal YL]

On 9/27/2017 at 8:15 AM, Denomon3144 said:

* = NPC ally in the storymode, almost certainly free DLC.

Original Characters
*^Darius- S

Fire Emblem: Shadow Dragon (5)
*Navarre- S

Fire Emblem Awakening (9)
*Owain- S

Fire Emblem Fates (13)
*Oboro- L
*Niles- B

I would like to know whether there are any actual clues that might indicate these characters might be unlocked via updates. Just to avoid getting my hope too high.

(And seriously, whose idea was it to have them not playable when they are fully working NPCs with full story involvement?)

[Folt]

20 minutes ago, nocturnal YL said:

I would like to know whether there are any actual clues that might indicate these characters might be unlocked via updates. Just to avoid getting my hope too high.

(And seriously, whose idea was it to have them not playable when they are fully working NPCs with full story involvement?)

Well, compared to Validar, Iago, and Gharnef, datamines reveals that at least Owain, Oboro, Niles, and Navarre are practically close to being done in a playable state, having battle quotes that only work if they're playable characters + one of them actually have Supports hidden in the datamine (Niles). Owain is also a Ryoma clone, Niles is a Takumi clone, and Navarre is a Lyn clone (or actually, that's more likely to be the other way around because Navarre is envisioned to be a dual wielder in related merchandise compared to Lyn who canonically uses a single sword).

And if we go by the theory that those four were replaced by four others, it'd be easy to figure out who replaced whom:

Owain -> Celica (Owain interestingly isn't using the moveset of Marth, using Ryoma's instead, but he was probably the magic alternative to Ryoma, like how Sakura is a magic alternative to Takumi. Celica was probably added in the very last minute here as another potential magic sword user... or potentially even initially was supposed to be a tome user up until developing difficulties meant they had to go with the only other weapon that made sense for her to use.)

Oboro -> Cordelia (I think in this case, Cordelia being a Lance-user and her popularity or potential earlyness could make up for losing a unique lance moveset in someone's mind.)

Niles -> Anna (As both are Bow-using thieves in Fates, Niles is relatively easy to replace. Helps that the playable Annas except Heroes!Anna have been a variation of the Thief class, preferably one with access to Staves. I also think that replacing Oboro gave a need to replace Niles as well... or the opposite could have happened for that matter.)

Navarre -> Lyn (This was probably the easiest replacement: Navarre is the ur-Myrmidon and associated with wind, and Lyn is basically a Myrmidon in all but name and is also associated with wind. One who fulfilled a certain role got replaced with someone fulfilling the same role.)

[nocturnal YL]

Drat. That makes me wish they're playable even more, if they're this close to having full sets of data.

[wissenschaft]

Actually, Lyn is probably just based on her awakening design hence why she duel wields. I kind of wish she used a bow during her specials but at least, can't have everything.

Oboro cannot have been replace by anyone since she has a unique moveset being a ground based lancer. I think people are assuming too much thinking that the npcs were ever planned to be part of the base roster. I doubt that any of them where going to be playable in the base game and full work on them would have to continue pass the release date. 

Edited October 12, 2017 by wissenschaft

[Folt]

11 hours ago, wissenschaft said:

Actually, Lyn is probably just based on her awakening design hence why she duel wields. I kind of wish she used a bow during her specials but at least, can't have everything.

Oboro cannot have been replace by anyone since she has a unique moveset being a ground based lancer. I think people are assuming too much thinking that the npcs were ever planned to be part of the base roster. I doubt that any of them where going to be playable in the base game and full work on them would have to continue pass the release date. 

The Awakening artwork could have been why Lyn replaced Navarre since that gave a possibility for the developers to copy Navarre's regular moveset all over to Lyn.

Oboro isn't someone who can potentially come at the start of the game which is where Cordelia comes in. She could absolutely have been intended as a playable at launch, but Cordelia could introduce a Lance user soner into the gameplay. (And who also is a flier so that players can familiarize themselves with the differences between fliers and normal movesets sooner.)

[guedesbrawl]

On 07/10/2017 at 1:12 PM, Folt said:

Well, compared to Validar, Iago, and Gharnef, datamines reveals that at least Owain, Oboro, Niles, and Navarre are practically close to being done in a playable state, having battle quotes that only work if they're playable characters + one of them actually have Supports hidden in the datamine (Niles). Owain is also a Ryoma clone, Niles is a Takumi clone, and Navarre is a Lyn clone (or actually, that's more likely to be the other way around because Navarre is envisioned to be a dual wielder in related merchandise compared to Lyn who canonically uses a single sword).

And if we go by the theory that those four were replaced by four others, it'd be easy to figure out who replaced whom:

Owain -> Celica (Owain interestingly isn't using the moveset of Marth, using Ryoma's instead, but he was probably the magic alternative to Ryoma, like how Sakura is a magic alternative to Takumi. Celica was probably added in the very last minute here as another potential magic sword user... or potentially even initially was supposed to be a tome user up until developing difficulties meant they had to go with the only other weapon that made sense for her to use.)

Oboro -> Cordelia (I think in this case, Cordelia being a Lance-user and her popularity or potential earlyness could make up for losing a unique lance moveset in someone's mind.)

Niles -> Anna (As both are Bow-using thieves in Fates, Niles is relatively easy to replace. Helps that the playable Annas except Heroes!Anna have been a variation of the Thief class, preferably one with access to Staves. I also think that replacing Oboro gave a need to replace Niles as well... or the opposite could have happened for that matter.)

Navarre -> Lyn (This was probably the easiest replacement: Navarre is the ur-Myrmidon and associated with wind, and Lyn is basically a Myrmidon in all but name and is also associated with wind. One who fulfilled a certain role got replaced with someone fulfilling the same role.)

I'll go out on a limb and say Cordelia isn't at fault here. The problem is that Anna was likely a forced Is/Ninty pick and they had to cut one archer to not have 4 people with the same moveset.

Which would then leave us with Oboro playable and Niles not? Weird stuff, and there's that balance of cQ vs BR that this upsets too.

[LucinaRobin]

Can I use all characters from the very start?

If not, which characters are available from start?

 

 

 

 

 

[Anomalocaris]

12 hours ago, LucinaRobin said:

Can I use all characters from the very start?

If not, which characters are available from start?

You choose either Rowan or Lianna as your starting character, then unlock the other characters (including whichever starter you didn't pick) as you play through the story. The exceptions are Lyn, Celica, and Anna, who are unlocked in History Mode.

[r_n]

The DLC is live and in a legitimately surprising turn of events, Azura & Oboro are not clones to each other. I don't have their full strings unlocked, but even their normals seem different

Niles is the same as the other archers, though.

[Florete]

2 hours ago, r_n said:

The DLC is live and in a legitimately surprising turn of events, Azura & Oboro are not clones to each other. I don't have their full strings unlocked, but even their normals seem different

Niles is the same as the other archers, though.

I don't think this is much of a surprise, actually. They clearly wanted to give Azura a moveset that fits her, and all the water effects wouldn't make sense on Oboro.

[Nanima]

5 hours ago, Florete said:

I don't think this is much of a surprise, actually. They clearly wanted to give Azura a moveset that fits her, and all the water effects wouldn't make sense on Oboro.

only because she's dlc though. Sakura was in base game, and she has the same wind effects as Takumi, despite not having the Fuujin.

[Folt]

5 hours ago, Nanima said:

only because she's dlc though. Sakura was in base game, and she has the same wind effects as Takumi, despite not having the Fuujin.

Then again, Wind in Fire Emblem is pretty much associated with killing fliers (+ with how Musou games are, everyone essentially gets at least one element to play with).

Also, no surprise that Oboro's moveset incorporates Wind and is essentially the Soldier moveset but playable since she might have been the base for those guys.

[guedesbrawl]

On 21/12/2017 at 6:24 AM, Nanima said:

only because she's dlc though. Sakura was in base game, and she has the same wind effects as Takumi, despite not having the Fuujin.

Takumi uses Wind even without the Fujin Yumi

Takumi is Sakura's brother.

That's enough of a connection to justify the cloning. Had you argued Anna, Niles or Hinoka, you'd have a point.

[Nanima]

On 21.12.2017 at 3:23 PM, Folt said:

Then again, Wind in Fire Emblem is pretty much associated with killing fliers (+ with how Musou games are, everyone essentially gets at least one element to play with).

Also, no surprise that Oboro's moveset incorporates Wind and is essentially the Soldier moveset but playable since she might have been the base for those guys.

 

7 minutes ago, guedesbrawl said:

Takumi uses Wind even without the Fujin Yumi

Takumi is Sakura's brother.

That's enough of a connection to justify the cloning. Had you argued Anna, Niles or Hinoka, you'd have a point.

Okay, so the green wind effect has been specifically tied to the Fuujin itself in everything concerning Fates. Sakura, for example, is usually heavily associated with Light. (still is in her musou) And since they didn't give the other archers different movesets, I am not surprised that they didn't give Takumi a different effect for when he is not using the Fuujin. Any thematic relevance to wind and bows was likely subordinate to the fact that they just cloned Takumi's moveset three times and didn't want to create different effects for the rest of the archers. 

Edited December 26, 2017 by Nanima

[Folt]

On 26.12.2017 at 7:55 PM, Nanima said:

Okay, so the green wind effect has been specifically tied to the Fuujin itself in everything concerning Fates. Sakura, for example, is usually heavily associated with Light. (still is in her musou) And since they didn't give the other archers different movesets, I am not surprised that they didn't give Takumi a different effect for when he is not using the Fuujin. Any thematic relevance to wind and bows was likely subordinate to the fact that they just cloned Takumi's moveset three times and didn't want to create different effects for the rest of the archers. 

Actually, they' probably still have Wind even with a noncloned moveset because Wind and Bows kind of do the same thing in Fire Emblem.

Like, if you'd asked me what possible element a Fire Emblem archer moveset would have, I'd answer Wind because it's extremely thematic that the anti-air fliers get the element that is usually the anti-air element.

It also has to do with characters being ridiculously overpowered and doing supernatural stuff even if they weren't known for it. Heck, you could even argue that Sakura is able to do all that Takumi can do because she's magically apt, something which can also hold true for the other two archers in the game.

The actual reason honestly is because Takumi is the template archer similiar to how Robin is the template for mages, Oboro is the template for lance infantry, Ryoma is the template for sword infantry, etc. etc. All of these characters are meant to be an introduction to what you can expect from other characters of their kind, including in how to fight them. Other characters may differ in some ways or others, but do not go too far from the base.

[Nanima]

36 minutes ago, Folt said:

Actually, they' probably still have Wind even with a noncloned moveset because Wind and Bows kind of do the same thing in Fire Emblem.

Like, if you'd asked me what possible element a Fire Emblem archer moveset would have, I'd answer Wind because it's extremely thematic that the anti-air fliers get the element that is usually the anti-air element.

It also has to do with characters being ridiculously overpowered and doing supernatural stuff even if they weren't known for it. Heck, you could even argue that Sakura is able to do all that Takumi can do because she's magically apt, something which can also hold true for the other two archers in the game.

The actual reason honestly is because Takumi is the template archer similiar to how Robin is the template for mages, Oboro is the template for lance infantry, Ryoma is the template for sword infantry, etc. etc. All of these characters are meant to be an introduction to what you can expect from other characters of their kind, including in how to fight them. Other characters may differ in some ways or others, but do not go too far from the base.

They still could have come up with something unique. And all archers just using wind makes the Fuujin itself completely lame. Why is Takumi even using a legendary bow when any archer can just pull tornadoes out of nothing? What does the Fuujin do outside specials besides look neat? It really takes away from what little interesting lore Fates had.

As for the last part... The comparisons you make just do not work. All mages use all elements, but none of them are an exact copy of Robin's movesets or effect. You really can't call Robin the basic mage template when up to now the other mages have had completely unique movesets (besides Elise copying Leo) and unique spells to call their own. Oboro as an introduction to lance infantry? When Azura's moveset is completely dissimilar and uses an entirely different element (water) for her attacks? Nope. Ryouma for sword infantry? When you get Chrom and Lucina much earlier, and the only one that copies Ryouma's moveset is Owain, who isn't playable yet and might get a unique one for himself later? (not sure about Navarre since I didn't buy the dlc and haven't watched his moveset) That's some introduction... As you can see, it is really not the same. The only one you can compare it to are the peg knights and wyvern knights. Completely identical fighting style and effects except for the specials.

The thing is though, that none of the peg or wyvern knights in this game have a very iconic weapon with a very iconic effect assigned to them in their canon. So all the archers copying Takumi makes it look like the Fuujin may as well be a plastic toy for all the things it adds to him.

[Folt]

1 hour ago, Nanima said:

They still could have come up with something unique. And all archers just using wind makes the Fuujin itself completely lame. Why is Takumi even using a legendary bow when any archer can just pull tornadoes out of nothing? What does the Fuujin do outside specials besides look neat? It really takes away from what little interesting lore Fates had.

As for the last part... The comparisons you make just do not work. All mages use all elements, but none of them are an exact copy of Robin's movesets or effect. You really can't call Robin the basic mage template when up to now the other mages have had completely unique movesets (besides Elise copying Leo) and unique spells to call their own. Oboro as an introduction to lance infantry? When Azura's moveset is completely dissimilar and uses an entirely different element (water) for her attacks? Nope. Ryouma for sword infantry? When you get Chrom and Lucina much earlier, and the only one that copies Ryouma's moveset is Owain, who isn't playable yet and might get a unique one for himself later? (not sure about Navarre since I didn't buy the dlc and haven't watched his moveset) That's some introduction... As you can see, it is really not the same. The only one you can compare it to are the peg knights and wyvern knights. Completely identical fighting style and effects except for the specials.

The thing is though, that none of the peg or wyvern knights in this game have a very iconic weapon with a very iconic effect assigned to them in their canon. So all the archers copying Takumi makes it look like the Fuujin may as well be a plastic toy for all the things it adds to him.

Because Takumi is the template archer. All enemy archers use moves from his moveset, from the base to the promoted versions. The Tornado attack is also reserved for the Archers who are playable/UNPC characters.

All mages use thunder balls in their regular attacks. All mages use multiple elements, despite wielding (or is soon going to wield) prf tomes that should in theory limit what they can do. All mages feature a C1 that is charged by damaging enemies, with a version that deals piddly damage, a half-charge that exposes the white stun gauge, and a full charge with respectable AoE as well. And of course, all enemy mages use Robin's moves, from the base to the promoted versions, and that includes the Priest variant + the UNPC Sorcerer trio. Tharja is also very likely going to copy Robin's moveset as well, if the DLC pattern holds. The magic attacks are also made as generic as possible: Iago shouts Lightning instead of Thoron when he uses C4.

Chrom's moveset was made before Ryoma's moveset, but Ryoma's moveset was the one chosen as the template moveset, mostly because it's a good catch-all moveset for most swordies (basically, most generic swordies). Owain is also going to share movesets with Ryoma. That will happen without doubt. Navarre did (and in fact might have been the one Lyn's moveset was intended for), Niles did, Oboro's moveset has all the moves from the Soldiers' moveset (+ the move that sets playable!Soldiers apart from generic soldiers). So Owain is pretty much gonna be a moveset clone.

In fact, it's pretty easy to see which characters ended up being template characters for generic catch-all movesets when you look at the generic enemies.

Sword Infantry: Ryoma (base version uses C1, promoted version uses C5, Playables/UNPCs get C3)

Lance Infantry: Oboro (base version uses C2, promoted version uses C3, Playables/UNPCs get C5)

Archer: Takumi (base version uses half-charged C1, promoted version uses C3, Playables/UNPCs get C4)

Mage: Robin (base version uses half-charged C1, promoted version uses C4, Playables/UNPCs get C5)

Cavalier: Xander (base version uses C2, promoted version uses C4; notably, the dark beam of the C4 looks very similiar to a lance thrust, which is probably why they got it instead of C1, which is reserved for Playables/UNPCs.)

Pegasus Knight: Caeda (base version uses C2, promoted version uses C3, Playables/UNPCs get C4)

Wyvern Rider: Camilla (base version uses C2, promoted version uses C3, Playables/UNPCs get C4, as a consequence of being a template character, Camilla's moveset is more in-line with the brutal scrapping of the Wyvern Lord than with the mage/fighter hybrid style of the Malig Knight. Thus, when Minerva entered the scene she predictably got Camilla's moveset.)

In addition to those, every Manakete enemy uses Dragon!Tiki's moveset. Unlike the ones above, they're treated more like the generic enemies who don't have a template: the base version gets 2 C#s (C1 and C3) and the promoted version gets 3 C#s (C5 in addition to the former two). This has to do with the only user of the transformed manakete moveset being unable to access these moves as an enemy (using attacks from her untransformed moveset instead).

Edited March 4, 2018 by Folt

[Nanima]

11 minutes ago, Folt said:

Snip

So okay maybe they were the very basic template, but there is still avery big difference between being a basic template which other characters build onto and move onward from, and just having 3 100% identical and uninspired clones. Other characters get to branch of their templates and Azura has a really amazing water theme going for herself that makes her pretty much indepedant from Oboro. But with the archer's wind effect it's all lazy copy paste. They could have at least made the effort of recolouring the wind effect to at least try and make the Fuujin somewhat unique, but no. So still the Fuujin apparently does nothing unique outside of specials. Takumi may as well hang it in a closet for all the good it does him.

I don't care if you can stretch the wind element to somehow fit all archers, it still is disappoitning and they could have shown at least a little effort in order to make the character even slightly different with unique effects. (like Sakura using identical moves but having a light effect, Niles dark, Anna has coins rain from them like in Super Mario). It's thematically uninspired and makes the super special Legendary weapon look lame. I will stand by this point.

Edited March 4, 2018 by Nanima

[Folt]

Just now, Nanima said:

So okay maybe they were the very basic template, but there is still avery big difference between being a basic template which other characters build onto and move onward from, and just having 3 100% identical and uninspired clones. Other characters get to branch of their templates and Azura has a really amazing water theme going for herself that makes her pretty much indepedant from Oboro. But with the archer's wind effect it's all lazy copy paste. They could have at least made the effort of recolouring the wind effect to at least try and make the Fuujin somewhat unique, but no. So still the Fuujin apparently does nothing unique outside of specials. Takumi may as well hang it in a closet for all the good it does him.

I don't care if you can stretch the wind element to somehow fit all archers, it still is disappoitning and they could have shown at least a little effort in order to make the character even slightly different with unique effects. (like Sakura using identical moves but having a light effect, Niles dark, Anna has coins rain from them like in Super Mario). It's thematically uninspired and I will stand by this point.

Azura pretty much had to have a moveset different from Oboro to accomodate for the Dancer gimmick. It's why she's the character in the Fates DLC who got the pack's unique moveset. The other two use movesets that have basically existed in the game in either playable or unplayable form.

And you can stand by it all you want, fact of the matter is that Takumi was the Archer template, and the fact that he's probably the most iconic and most important playable Archer of the games featured, if not the series, is likely why he was made so. Come to think of it, the same also applies to characters like Robin, Ryoma, Caeda, Xander, Frederick, etc. etc.

Speaking of which:

Great Knight Moveset Template: Frederick (C2 on the base versions, C3 on the promoted versions, C4 reserved for UNPCs/Playables.)

[Nanima]

3 minutes ago, Folt said:

And you can stand by it all you want, fact of the matter is that Takumi was the Archer template, and the fact that he's probably the most iconic and most important playable Archer of the games featured, if not the series, is likely why he was made so. Come to think of it, the same also applies to characters like Robin, Ryoma, Caeda, Xander, Frederick, etc. etc.

Speaking of which:

Great Knight Moveset Template: Frederick (C2 on the base versions, C3 on the promoted versions, C4 reserved for UNPCs/Playables.)

Where did I deny he was the archer template? You really don't seem to understand what my actual problem here is. Being a template is one thing. I am fine with that since it goes for everyone else. Having four exact one hundred percent clones  carrying the exact one hundred percent cloned wind effect is where my problem lies. I hope I made myself more clear now.

[Folt]

2 minutes ago, Nanima said:

Where did I deny he was the archer template? You really don't seem to understand what my actual problem here is. Being a template is one thing. I am fine with that since it goes for everyone else. Having four exact one hundred percent clones  carrying the exact one hundred percent cloned wind effect is where my problem lies. I hope I made myself more clear now.

And his moveset is going to keep getting cloned for archers as long as he's the template. Which might very well be forever given that Takumi's moveset so perfectly captures the stuff you'd want from an Archer in Fire Emblem.

[Nanima]

1 minute ago, Folt said:

And his moveset is going to keep getting cloned for archers as long as he's the template. Which might very well be forever given that Takumi's moveset so perfectly captures the stuff you'd want from an Archer in Fire Emblem.

Oh really? So you don't see any way a template can have it's moveset diversified for another character? I haven't played any other Warrior games, but I am pretty sure they feature more than one archer moveset among them. Even if you base everything off of Takumi's moveset, there are ways to make it more unique and different for other characters. Like with Oboro and Azura. Like with Ryouma and all the other sword-users. I don't see how you can think they can't do that with Takumi and the other archers. They might as well just make all other archers in the series skins then.