So what is it with fans and Intelligent Systems?

[Harvey]

I don't know how to say this but whenever I read posts or strategies on how to beat certain chapters and when I do, some guys will say stuff like in Omega's case "damn you Intelligent Systems" Or say stuff like "Intelligent Systems likes to troll you a lot."

Some have grudges over IS programming such as you hear stuff like Intelligent systems not being able to code stuff right such as the mine glitch in FE7. 

Then you read stuff like Intelligent Systems is unfair, then people going as far as saying that IS is hiring dirty minded staff?

So bottom line is, what is it with fans and Intelligent Systems? 

Please Note: This is not me trolling around Intelligent Systems or even a clickbait article as it has nothing bad about me ranting at IS. Infact, I'm a fan of IS and while I found Sticker Star a bit disappointing, Its not really that bad and I like Paper Mario, Fire Emblem just like most around here. Its just me asking what is it with people bashing so much at Intelligent Systems is all.

[Magical Glace]

It's really nothing more than people finding certain recent design decisions of theirs questionable, really.

[Florete]

I think you've read a few too many troll posts. You're taking the words of a few too seriously.

[Zangetsu]

2 minutes ago, Florete said:

I think you've read a few too many troll posts. You're taking the words of a few too seriously.

It's hard to respect a comment like the 1 Harvey just posted. The guy is just flat disrespecting the developer & has all the behavior of an elitist.

 

[Lau]

^Can we let go of all this Elitist vs Casual bs please? Cheers.

 

But yeah, like others have said, it's just people not agreeing with IS' decisions.

I personally love IS - I'm thankful for them creating such an amazing franchise. Have they made me raise an eyebrow? Of course, just like any other video game company. But it doesn't mean that I don't have the utmost respect for them. Honestly? The positives outweigh the negatives in terms of IS' decisions.

Edited October 27, 2017 by Lau

[familyplayer]

2 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

all the behavior of an elitist.

It's not even him saying the games by themselves are bad. He's saying specific design decisions are bad. Stop falling back on this argument. The dude in the post clearly believes that, compared to how Kaga treated incest, IS now treats it like the kink that it's (for some reason) become in modern media in Japan. He dislikes that FE became more about appealing to anime cliches. I know his post is 50x more aggressive towards IS than he probably needed to be, but I've seen worse and this is the internet so I'm not too surprised someone would use hyperbole.

[Harvey]

3 hours ago, Glaceon Mage said:

It's really nothing more than people finding certain recent design decisions of theirs questionable, really.

Like?

 

[NekoKnight]

Honestly, while that comment was a bit on the extreme, I agree with it in spirit. They've sold out and gone for shallow mass appeal over mature story telling.

[Michelaar]

People don't have 'grudges' against IS. They're making fun of the game/IS. You're looking into this too much.

 

Also, please don't start with the elitist vs casual discussion. It is what makes the fire emblem community toxic as hell.

[Magical Glace]

2 hours ago, Harvey said:

Like?

 

The fanservice in Awakening onward, the perceived abandonment of Paper Mario's original formula, basically, stuff people have opinions on.

It's really not particularly complicated.

[De Geso]

I don't think anyone really hates IS (well, not anyone reasonable anyway).

Some people don't like the direction the franchise is seeming to go in, although with Echoes I don't know if it is still going in that direction.

Some people are just poking fun or trolling around and don't really care.

Some people care a little too much, though, like the dude in that leddit post. At the end of the day, they can always just not buy the shit, play the old FE games they like and get on with their lives.

[Fabulously Olivier]

I personally love IS. They are one of my most respected developers alongside CDProjektRed, Arenanet, and Digital Extremes.

[Etrurian emperor]

Right now IS is steering its two main franchises into controversial new direction which rubs a lot of people the wrong way. All in all they are going through a bit of an awkward face. 

You could make an argument for this being either good or bad in Fire emblem case. Its undeniable the series has gone downhill in terms of story telling and through prioritizing fanservice above all, nicely embodied by incest being indeed a fetish in Fates. But you can also point to there being much better sales and a larger fanbase which you can take as IS doing really well. The new style also brings a lot of charm which certainly isn't unimportant. 
It doesn't help that IS isn't very subtle about them favoring the newer fans. 

The case of Paper Mario is far less ambiguous. It had no direct need to reinvent itself like Fire emblem nor where the changes brought about by cool new ideas the devs had. Instead they make their games worse in the eyes of many people just because they want(or are forced) to distance themselves from the old style despite very few people wanting that and the old style selling well enough. The whole affair is just off putting. 

[familyplayer]

40 minutes ago, Etrurian emperor said:

The case of Paper Mario is far less ambiguous

Tbh, I don't think I saw a single positive thing on the videos for the newest Paper Mario. At least Super Paper Mario is controversial in this regard. The new sticker games are just hated at this point.

[Etrurian emperor]

5 minutes ago, familyplayer said:

Tbh, I don't think I saw a single positive thing on the videos for the newest Paper Mario. At least Super Paper Mario is controversial in this regard. The new sticker games are just hated at this point.

Well yeah, that's what I mean. I'm sure they got some fans or people who think they are fine(in case of color splash I'd be one of them) but with all the hate its easy to reach the conclusion they are universally reviled. I certainly think the vast, vast majority just want a sequel of TTYD.

[Zasplach]

10 hours ago, Harvey said:

I don't know how to say this but whenever I read posts or strategies on how to beat certain chapters and when I do, some guys will say stuff like in Omega's case "damn you Intelligent Systems" Or say stuff like "Intelligent Systems likes to troll you a lot."

Some have grudges over IS programming such as you hear stuff like Intelligent systems not being able to code stuff right such as the mine glitch in FE7. 

Then you read stuff like Intelligent Systems is unfair, then people going as far as saying that IS is hiring dirty minded staff?

So bottom line is, what is it with fans and Intelligent Systems? 

Please Note: This is not me trolling around Intelligent Systems or even a clickbait article as it has nothing bad about me ranting at IS. Infact, I'm a fan of IS and while I found Sticker Star a bit disappointing, Its not really that bad and I like Paper Mario, Fire Emblem just like most around here. Its just me asking what is it with people bashing so much at Intelligent Systems is all.

I think you are just noticing two phenomenons.  The first is specific to FE/IS, they have been making games for almost 30 years now (for reference they started when George H.W. Bush, yes the first one, was President) so there has been a lot of change on the development team.  Heck the guy who invented the series has been gone since almost the last century.  Things change and people tend to be uncomfortable with change, especially change to things that they enjoyed.  IS doesn't do the same way they did 20 years ago or even ten years ago or frankly even five, it takes time for people to come to grips with that. You can add to the frustration that this is an entertainment medium, that people feel they have some level of control over through their purchasing power. 

The second phenomenon I think is more generalized and I have observed in the United States (I don't know if it's true of the rest of the world, though I would suspect it is).  With the polarization of society in general, people tend to group themselves in camps (not everybody) of conflicting groups. This results in people making more visceral arguments, thinking that you either agree with me and see things the way I do or you must have something against me and the way I think.  As people take slights from disagreement they tend to make more and more divisive arguments, leading to a general sense of disharmony.    

[Zapp Branniglenn]

@Harvey I notice a lot of your topics are "why do people say_______" and I think you'd get a better answer if you'd just ask them what they mean when it happens. Because I don't know what to tell you when you're paraphrasing people out of context. This is the internet, and people use figurative language when they know they're speaking to an audience that knows exactly what they mean.

[Zangetsu]

21 hours ago, familyplayer said:

It's not even him saying the games by themselves are bad. He's saying specific design decisions are bad. Stop falling back on this argument. The dude in the post clearly believes that, compared to how Kaga treated incest, IS now treats it like the kink that it's (for some reason) become in modern media in Japan. He dislikes that FE became more about appealing to anime cliches. I know his post is 50x more aggressive towards IS than he probably needed to be, but I've seen worse and this is the internet so I'm not too surprised someone would use hyperbole.

What argument am I even having to begin with?

 

He uses hyperbole to express himself & I'm supposed just respect his opinion? I can't have an opinion about his opinion?

I hate incest as much the next guy, but there clearly a better way to express that without being a douchebag about it. There's only so much I can take the "this is internet" excuse. At some point someone going to have realize being anonymous doesn't give you the right to a whiny brat who couldn't have his way with every little details in life.

[eclipse]

Fans complaining about their video games is nothing new.  Try wandering into other fandoms, and see their reaction every time something new is announced.

[familyplayer]

2 hours ago, Zangetsu said:

What argument am I even having to begin with?

 

He uses hyperbole to express himself & I'm supposed just respect his opinion? I can't have an opinion about his opinion?

I hate incest as much the next guy, but there clearly a better way to express that without being a douchebag about it. There's only so much I can take the "this is internet" excuse. At some point someone going to have realize being anonymous doesn't give you the right to a whiny brat who couldn't have his way with every little details in life.

I meant that you just wrote him off as an elitist without making enough of an argument really about his opinion.

 

You can have an opinion on his opinion. Didn't mean to imply that. After all, I am having an opinion on your opinion on my opinion of your opinion on this dude's opinion.

Finally, part of the reason he says he went on such a rant is because, " It's something I'm fed up with Japanese media in general, especially because I have no way to speak out against it to the creators because I'm a filthy foreigner (not even Gaijin because I'm not white) who just doesn't understand Glorious Nippon's culture and i don't even buy their merchandise anyway so why should they listen to me? It's frustrating; also because their is that difference in culture that leaves you questioning "Am I just being a cultural elitist? Isn't it arrogant of me to think what I say is better just because Western society reinforces my beliefs?" 

And to be honest, I understand well the frustration of having no way to affect the things you love due to Japan catering more the Japanese (understandably so, but it still makes outside audiences annoyed that they can't affect it). And now that I'm looking back at the post again, the stuff the guy says isn't even that bad. If anything, the dude makes some decent arguments and words it in a well-written manner. The worst thing he does in the post is just the multiple times he insults whoever is responsible at IS for the decisions he sees. 

[Zangetsu]

5 hours ago, familyplayer said:

You can have an opinion on his opinion. Didn't mean to imply that. After all, I am having an opinion on your opinion on my opinion of your opinion on this dude's opinion.

Finally, part of the reason he says he went on such a rant is because, " It's something I'm fed up with Japanese media in general, especially because I have no way to speak out against it to the creators because I'm a filthy foreigner (not even Gaijin because I'm not white) who just doesn't understand Glorious Nippon's culture and i don't even buy their merchandise anyway so why should they listen to me? It's frustrating; also because their is that difference in culture that leaves you questioning "Am I just being a cultural elitist? Isn't it arrogant of me to think what I say is better just because Western society reinforces my beliefs?" 

And to be honest, I understand well the frustration of having no way to affect the things you love due to Japan catering more the Japanese (understandably so, but it still makes outside audiences annoyed that they can't affect it). And now that I'm looking back at the post again, the stuff the guy says isn't even that bad. If anything, the dude makes some decent arguments and words it in a well-written manner. The worst thing he does in the post is just the multiple times he insults whoever is responsible at IS for the decisions he sees. 

I suppose that's a fair enough argument. It at least we clear that up.

 

I can't respect the way he phrase it on his part. You're not earning brownie points just because you're degrading yourself & it doesn't exempt how obnoxious it sounds. Technically speaking if he bought a Nintendo game that is him buy a foreign product. Not that I know how business works so what would I know?

 

I'm more than can sympathize & understand his problem. It's one of the main reasons why I gave on anime in altogether. If I have to be frank, I don't ever seen a Japanese game company that consider the feedback from a international scale. From what I understand they're more focus  domestically rather than globally which is beyond frustrating. The only company I seen developing with an internationally is Team Sora. Feel free to correct me on this.