Going back to one screen

[Alastor15243]

It just occurred to me after playing FE7 shortly after playing Fates that the two screen setup the last 5 games have enjoyed has been a major boon and convenience when it comes to calculating how dangerous the enemy is and what your next move should be, and I think I’m actually dreading the idea of going back to a single screen system and having to go through menu screens again for each and every enemy unit.

Of course there is the possibility they’ll come up with some new method, but the odds that it’ll be as good as the two screen method are pretty slim.

What do you guys think? Are you going to miss being able to tell enemy stats at a simple glance? Do you think reducing the screen size would be worth the convenience afforded by, say, implementing a split-screen display?

[Zapp Branniglenn]

I've thought about this a lot since FE Switch was announced. I think the "press R/Y to learn more" methodology from FE6-10 is excellent. Instead of looking down at the bottom screen, the game just loads the info you want in a button press. Plus I can keep my fingers on the buttons instead of reaching a finger onto the bottom screen and carefully tapping on weapons for their stats, or the character's stats to see how much they're buffed/debuffed. To be honest, I don't think anything will be lost when transitioning back to one screen.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Glennstavos

[Alastor15243]

3 minutes ago, Glennstavos said:

I've thought about this a lot since FE Switch was announced. I think the "press R/Y to learn more" methodology from FE6-10 is excellent. Instead of looking down at the bottom screen, the game just loads the info you want in a button press. Plus I can keep my fingers on the buttons instead of reaching a finger onto the bottom screen and carefully tapping on weapons for their stats, or the character's stats to see how much they're buffed/debuffed. To be honest, I don't think anything will be lost when transitioning back to one screen.

Well the main issue is that the non-dual-screen games just can’t keep all the info on one screen. Particularly in the advance games, when comparing enemy attack to my defense I have to switch pages constantly due to total attack power being on a different page from stats.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

7 minutes ago, Alastor15243 said:

Well the main issue is that the non-dual-screen games just can’t keep all the info on one screen. Particularly in the advance games, when comparing enemy attack to my defense I have to switch pages constantly due to total attack power being on a different page from stats.

We don't know yet how/if Character pages will be split into sections. Remember, GBA was a very small screen. That was the reason why they couldn't fit everything on a single page without making it all an uncomfortably small font. Have you played Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn? An Enemy's Atk power and other derived stats were side by side with their base stats and inventory on their first page, since now the information is displayed on a television. And switch's screen size is certainly larger than GBA as well.

Edited November 3, 2017 by Glennstavos

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Glennstavos said:

We don't know yet how/if Character pages will be split into sections. Remember, GBA was a very small screen. That was the reason why they couldn't fit everything on a single page without making it all an uncomfortably small font. Have you played Path of Radiance/Radiant Dawn? An Enemy's Atk power and other derived stats were side by side with their base stats on their first page, since now the information is displayed on a television. And switch's screen size is certainly larger than GBA as well.

Yeah, but there's also the issue that they'll be tempted to add back in new mechanics and such, like they did the last time it switched from handheld to console. Mostly I'm just hoping it's not annoying.

Plus, I'm going to miss that corner-of-the-eye chance to notice something dangerous on the enemy's skill list during what would otherwise have been a costly lapse of judgement. Especially if they're going to have skills play an important role on enemies like in Conquest, which I'm sincerely hoping for. I just think adding a button press to something you ideally should be checking with every enemy isn't exactly something to be excited about.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

1 minute ago, Alastor15243 said:

Yeah, but there's also the issue that they'll be tempted to add back in new mechanics and such, like they did the last time it switched from handheld to console. Mostly I'm just hoping it's not annoying.

Plus, I'm going to miss that corner-of-the-eye chance to notice something dangerous on the enemy's skill list during what would otherwise have been a costly lapse of judgement. Especially if they're going to have skills play an important role on enemies like in Conquest, which I'm sincerely hoping for. I just think adding a button press to something you ideally should be checking with every enemy isn't exactly something to be excited about.

Now there's an issue that the Tellius games didn't solve, skills were hidden away in their character page. Of course, skills were typically relegated to just bosses, and still are in 3DS games outside of Conquest. I suspect they'll work around this with another mechanic from previous games. When you have your cursor over a unit, it shows you some info. In GBA, that overlay was in the corner of the screen, and Tellius just had it on top of the unit. I think they could get by a lot of issues by focusing on that sort of quick information. What weapon does the unit have, what skills do they have. Maybe an item icon to indicate if they have a vulnerary, and a red or green item icon to let you know they will drop an item on death.

[Alastor15243]

Just now, Glennstavos said:

Now there's an issue that the Tellius games didn't solve, skills were hidden away in their character page. Of course, skills were typically relegated to just bosses, and still are in 3DS games outside of Conquest. I suspect they'll work around this with another mechanic from previous games. When you have your cursor over a unit, it shows you some info. In GBA, that overlay was in the corner of the screen, and Tellius just had it on top of the unit. I think they could get by a lot of issues by focusing on that sort of quick information. What weapon does the unit have, what skills do they have. Maybe an item icon to indicate if they have a vulnerary, and a red or green item icon to let you know they will drop an item on death.

That information would be crucial. At least knowing how much damage they're going to be doing and what skills they have. I think that could easily be put into a header over the unit, at least if they just use icons for skills, which would be fine, those will get memorized quickly enough.

[Zapp Branniglenn]

Just now, Alastor15243 said:

That information would be crucial. At least knowing how much damage they're going to be doing and what skills they have. I think that could easily be put into a header over the unit, at least if they just use icons for skills, which would be fine, those will get memorized quickly enough.

I'm actually just reminded about how Fire Emblem Heroes has the overlay, including stats and skills. Of course, that game is a touch screen interface, and the Switch can't use a touch screen in TV mode. Still though, it's a good baseline for what an overlay can look like on a single screen game.

[BrightBow]

Having two screen should have been nice in theory but there have always been issues with it. Like, in Shadow Dragon you had to use the Select button to view the stats of an enemy's weapon. That's something that's not exactly self-explanatory. Then starting with Awakening and Fates you were required you to hit tiny symbols to get information of skills and weapons... on top of missing some important information altogether. Like, it baffles me that Fates of all things felt the need to only display your current attributes instead of your base attribute + any existing modifier like any other game. For once it was actually important to know what your unmodified bases were, in order to know what your stats would look like after getting hit by a shuriken or some other debuff on enemy phase.

Edited November 3, 2017 by BrightBow

[B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N]

I started playing FE7 about a month or two (or three) ago.  The difference wasn't as jarring to me, but, to be fair, I had left Awakening untouched for a while.

The setup wasn't that bad for me, in all honesty.  Maybe smaller screens don't bother me as much as they do others, but it felt natural just playing on a single screen.  If I wanted to view an enemy's stats or weapons, I would just press the R button.  Simple.

To be fair, though, the two-screen setup is probably saves more time in the long run, as a quick glance to the second screen doesn't take up nearly as much time as navigating a sub-menu.  But I'm not one to manage time like that when playing video games.  I can see how it might hinder others, though.

[Alastor15243]

1 hour ago, BrightBow said:

Having two screen should have been nice in theory but there have always been issues with it. Like, in Shadow Dragon you had to use the Select button to view the stats of an enemy's weapon. That's something that's not exactly self-explanatory. Then starting with Awakening and Fates you were required you to hit tiny symbols to get information of skills and weapons... on top of missing some important information altogether. Like, it baffles me that Fates of all things felt the need to only display your current attributes instead of your base attribute + any existing modifier like any other game. For once it was actually important to know what your unmodified bases were, in order to know what your stats would look like after getting hit by a shuriken or some other debuff on enemy phase.

But why would your unmodified bases matter in determining that unless you were already debuffed? And surely that's not such a common scenario that having to tap the screen for it was a frequent event?

[Captain Vulgar]

I haven't played the Radiant games, so my closest idea is that the ui could be similar the GBA games. I'm sure everything is going to be toggleable. Maybe an option to change opacity when looking at stats so you can still see the field.

Edited November 4, 2017 by Captain Vulgar

[Lord_Grima]

I'd like to see something of a mix between FE7 and FEH. When you highlight an enemy, if gives a small box on the edge/corner of the screen that gives a few base stats, but then you can click a button to expand it. Preferably something like FE Echoes: SoV style with the translucent overlay on the side.  

Instead of opening a menu(FE7) it just opens an overlay. Translucent background so you can still see the map, but the text and stats are visible. This could be a neat way of merging the two styles.

[BrightBow]

13 hours ago, Alastor15243 said:

But why would your unmodified bases matter in determining that unless you were already debuffed? And surely that's not such a common scenario that having to tap the screen for it was a frequent event?

From my experience in Conquest, your frontliners are always debuffed to some degree. Ninjas are everywhere and your stats only recover by 1 each turn. So yeah, it was very much an omnipresent issue.

[mega5657]

Hmm, I'm fine with the single screen. Admittedly this is probably because I started with the GBA FEs. I don't seem to think this will be much of an issue however as I can't think of issues that could prevent good UI design from addressing this.

[Slumber]

Going back probably won't be super jarring. I've never had a problem going back and forth between the two, and as long as the UI is clean and space is well-utilized, going back the the single screen style of FE10 and back should be fine.

One thing worth noting, this will be the first HD Fire Emblem. That's a lot more real-estate to use on a menu.

[B_E_P_I_S_M_A_N]

1 hour ago, Slumber said:

Going back probably won't be super jarring. I've never had a problem going back and forth between the two, and as long as the UI is clean and space is well-utilized, going back the the single screen style of FE10 and back should be fine.

One thing worth noting, this will be the first HD Fire Emblem. That's a lot more real-estate to use on a menu.

That's true.  Almost all screens these days have a 16:9 aspect ratio, so it shouldn't be that hard to keep a unit's stats visible at, say, the right side of the screen. 

The Nintendo Switch has a resolution of 720p in portable mode, so the UI would probably have to be designed around that to keep the game playable on the go.