Cuphead In: Don't Deal With the Mafia (Game Over)

[Kamina]

Wow, holy fuck Maria is already at L-2 this early into the game. Could we a bit more careful to make sure we don't get someone to L-1 or even accidental hammer before the first 24 hours of the game? Something about how fast that wagon built up is a bit unsettling, but I'm not done rereading so give me some more time.

[C. C.]

2 hours ago, Cala Maria said:

I want to show that you are playing similar to a scum!player in a past mafia game. So I present the most recent game where said player was scum. He wasn't scum in any of the recent games. So why would I point to a recent game?

 

Are you solely scumreading me for this then? Because if you think my case is weak then your argument is just as weak if not worse.

you still need to look at those town games though because if the player displayed those same things when they were town as well as when they were scum, it's not alignment indicative.

1 hour ago, Cala Maria said:

I don't see what you get from Hilda's comments but you're wrong about Michelaar not having played mafia before or OC. This is kind of derailing the discussion so I'll stop here but being dismissive like that is terrible.

I didn't make the meta point because I didn't make the connection to the identity before? Like this is the most obvious reason a town player would do this but you're just going to sidestep because in your eyes I fall outside of your PoE so of course you'd only  reason all arguments for me being scum. Also, EXACTLY,  Why would scum make a case based purely on meta on an inexperienced player when the player decides to do 'townie' things, when the scum has a gun to their head?  No really, what do I gain from making a case based on meta on someone 'attempting' to contribute to discussion? There was barely any support for a Hilda lynch D1, in fact more people gave her the newbie pass,why would I think that a Hilda vote would suddenly gain traction when I have my life on the line here.. Like where is the scum intent here? And I did analyze Hilda's recent post. What is townie about that? Like why does Hilda changing her stance on Beppi make her town? The support for the Beppi lynch died down sometime during D1, and I really don't see ANYTHING townie about the Grim vote, that shit is way too late for me to take that as a town vote. Like I don't even get the reason for the newbie pass, genuine frustration? Man I didn't know that being angry was a surefire ticket to signal to everyone that you're town.

If you're hurt that I talked about the possibility of you being scum, that's not my problem. I say that because in the chance that I die early and you are actually scum, town doesn't switch their brains off and think that you're obvtown just because you talk a lot. The whole leaving a person open to be a mislynch is a load of crap; you conveniently change your townreads and PoE shit left and right as is convenient to you regardless of your alignment, don't give me this.

 

ok I might be wrong about Michelaar's experience but I still don't think they read like Michelaar? Michelaar's manner of lashing out at people is different. it's more passive aggressive and less directly aggressive than Hilda imo. I don't see how I'm being dismissive. The main portion of your case was based around Hilda acting like scum!Michelaar and therefore being scum. If I disagree with that premise and say why, how am I being dismissive?

I was tunneling a bit when I said that part about you not making the case earlier, and the point about why you would push Hilda as scum is fair. but I thought I conveniently changed my PoE and townreads as was convenient to me??? so don't try to guilt me by saying that I'm going to ignore what you say. also you're not part of my PoE, I said you were scummy from the beginning of D2.

however, I still disagree with your case? Firstly I didn't see you talk about Hilda's other posts anywhere prior to your vote but it was late and I might have missed it. Can you link/quote to it? As to what you say here- Beppi point is fair but I guess I feel like scum!Hilda would not really be trying to push cases so much as stay alive? So it wouldn't matter necessarily if she's not going to get Beppi lynched if she could plausibly hang around doing that all phase (although whether or not that's plausible is up for debate). I don't understand what you mean by the Matchstick vote being too late. What, her not posting content on D1 means that all content now is too late and doesn't matter???

also I don't care whether or not you think I'm scum. i care how you express your sentiment of paranoia.

anyways I might change my vote but I need to read Sally's post fully first

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

PSA: Please convey the same amount of thoughts in less words, reading is very hard for me.

[No Elimination]

My argument has changed from when I first voted yes, because there's been more content and that content has made me very certain that Rumor is scum. A solid case is a case that is retained in the makers mind, that is central to at least more than one post and pushes the game state forward. Rumor did not make such cases. Cagney believing them and being convinced by them doesn't make them legitimate any more than it makes Cagney gullible. 

We're going to have to agree to disagree on the lurking vs leading point I suppose but I still retain that the possible pay off for successfully lurking is high and simply voting to appease people doesn't exactly help one's position anyway so scum aren't necessarily going to just do it in this case.

Can you explain what exactly is _good_ about Rumor's content this phase to show that they are competent enough to fake good cases in a pinch? What is it that you like in her responses to people and in her cases?

Quote

complete with a vote and a call for a turbolynch.

Isn't Werner blatantly lying here? No mention of a turbolynch was made. Also the chainsaw defence of Rumor by undermining Sally's case really makes me think.

Not really getting anything from anyone else.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

Don't like Wally's justification for voting Djimmi.  "I didn't want him to get away with his early play" reads as inauthentic to me because "posting just for the sake of posting" is not actually scummy and "his non-case COULD come from scum" is not conclusive enough.  Also agree w/Werner that you basically ignored the entire game in your second post, which is not good if you're going to be making posts so infrequently.  Also of note is Wally questioning what is town about Hilda's post while also having no read on Hilda.  Interesting, that.  Your defense about you being Rumor's 2nd strongest scumread somehow reflecting bad on her is laughable.  How do I know this?  Because you're MY second strongest scumread, and I know that I'm town.

Would sheep Werner's read on Hilda (I don't see Scum!Hilda attacking Grim's case on Beppi today unless they're buddies...and a Hilda/Beppi scumteam would be kind of amazing but also kind of impossible judging from their interactions).

@Captain Brineybeard Having a case and not voting on it just makes the not voting worse...If Rumor didn't have a case at all, it could be construed as clueless town more easily.

@Cala Maria How does my Rumor vote look bad on a Town!Djimmi flip?  What's the point of your Town!Captain read?  I can get being paranoid about his slot, but the way you're going about it is so...scummy.  You're throwing suspicion onto a slot that you aren't even suspicious of for no reason.   I don't like the Hilda case too.  You're using meta in an OC game and I don't get the same impression from Hilda in this game anyways.  Also, you're using another game to scumread for you.  Why is Hilda scummy in the game we're playing right now?  I don't see how Hilda has been defensive today (I can get yesterday), and Hilda is contributing today.

@Rumor Honeybottoms How did Cala waffle on you (you mentioned that on your post before voting her)? I agree with this post still (https://serenesforest.net/forums/index.php?/topic/80638-cuphead-in-dont-deal-with-the-mafia-day-2/&page=14&tab=comments#comment-5129822), it's just the initial read that I can't get behind.  I like your entry into today; not many scumreads still (not having many scumreads isn't scummy in and of itself but it gives you an excuse to limit interactions with other people), but I like how you're actually pushing someone.  Fair enough about getting dragged off at the end of the day, I can't really blame someone else for being absent.  

@Grim Matchstick Cali probably dropped her case on you to vote Djimmi.  Why didn't you mention this earlier, though?  Hilda vote doesn't show any signs of reading a past game, just Cali going "this person didn't do shit on D1 and was scum, and so is Hilda" which reads more scum referencing a past game to me.

More coming in a bit, just wanted to get something out there before going back to WORDS WORDS WORDS.

 

[C. C.]

##Unvote, ##Vote: Sally Stageplay

Werner expressed my sentiment more or less:

1 hour ago, Werner Werman said:

Here's the problem with this post:

Maria is either scum or she's not scum.  The people voting her are scum or they're not scum.  You're defending her via her wagon, yet saying that you'd want to vote her for her Hilda case.  Unless you think the scumteam is Maria/Honeybottoms/Cagney/Kahl (which is impossible), your logic makes no sense.

yes, you can find someone scummy but think some of the votes against them are bad. But if there's a wagon of 5 and you think that 4 of the votes against them aren't good, that should probably raise some flags? Also, yes, it could be scum bussing but why would scum bus their buddy with bad logic? when scum bus their buddies they normally have good cases because they're more confident and have insight into their buddy's thoughts. not to mention that there isn't an attempt to figure out here which of these votes are possible busses and which people stumbled onto the right vote for wrong reasons. it feels like cheerleading the lynch while slamming the people on the wagon.

Sally, do you find Rumor suspicious or are you just voting her because Cala already has so many votes? asking because the tone of your questions towards her seems too nice

[Estelle]

3 minutes ago, Wally Warbles said:

Isn't Werner blatantly lying here? No mention of a turbolynch was made. Also the chainsaw defence of Rumor by undermining Sally's case really makes me think.

Not really getting anything from anyone else.

Quote the entire paragraph instead of that one bit, then tell me that I'm lying.

[C. C.]

the majority of cases don't meet that criteria lol.

maybe you and I have different standards for what is being able to fabricate content? this for example:

"not sure i like cala maria's latest post. first paragraph is useless fluff. second paragraph is a piggybacked read. third paragraph is what strikes me as the oddest, tbh. "i'm fine with this person voting you but i don't have thoughts on you yet but you'd better not do x" is pretty waffly. almost reads to me like she knows i'm town and would rather have others mislynch me than have to hop onto the wagon herself"

okay so you disagree with the characterizations that rumor is making here. but she's analyzing posts and providing opinions on them and then voting for those. that content might be good or bad but she can make cases. and if you think this case sucks so much that it shouldn't count, I feel like then it doesn't make sense to me why rumor would just drop her reads from before. that reads more like her just changing her mind to me

anyways I have to go now. won't be back until the evening probably.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

@Wally Warbles It feels like you're getting on Rumor's case for not being optimal town, not for being scummy.  Also you're definitely misrepping Rumor's post, considering her scumread on Cali wasn't based on the wagon analysis or the sheep.  Cala's buddies are you and maybe Sally? Baroness?  Didn't read into interactions for the latter two but they're Bottom 5 on my lynch priority doc.

This is a good Cala post though, fuck me I'm waffling.  It doesn't read as scum justification for their unvote on Grim.  Maybe it's just because I definitely figured out who Cala was (...probably), but I'm like fine with...all of her recent defense posts.  Make one for me too!

@Sally Stageplay "Alright, seems like a lot is happening now. The no night kill solidifies my town read on the captain, since other scenarios where scum misses a kill seem unlikely. It also makes me pretty certain scum doesn't have a strongman, or at least not one they could use last night for if that ever becomes relevant." Am I an idiot or did I just catch the scumslip, babyyyyyyy.  Why is it more likely that scum shot Captain over 1) shooting someone else (especially if Captain is scum) or 2) shooting a BPV?  If you think scum is bandwagoning on the wagon, say who it is.  Don't just cast aspersions on the Cali wagon and don't follow up on it, especially when you're okay w/voting on the wagon yourself!  This is scummy.  Also your Rumor vote is bad because you don't have any real reasons to scumread the slot to my knowledge.

@Captain Brineybeard I said I'd sheep someone's case on Cala at the beginning of the day lol.  I had only skimmed the first few pages of D2 at the time, I was just responding to Rumor because she was there and I wanted her responses ASAP.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

##Unvote

##Vote: Wally Warbles

Lynch priority is kind of wack because I don't know who bothers me more between Wally/Sally (Sally is more in the background which fits the scum MO more but Wally is doing more things that are actively bothering me), I'm flipflopping on Hilda (what I mentioned earlier holds true but I dunno...something just seems off about her followups to her cases).  Maybe third scum is Baroness/Cagney, I don't even know.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

30 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

the majority of cases don't meet that criteria lol.

maybe you and I have different standards for what is being able to fabricate content? this for example:

"not sure i like cala maria's latest post. first paragraph is useless fluff. second paragraph is a piggybacked read. third paragraph is what strikes me as the oddest, tbh. "i'm fine with this person voting you but i don't have thoughts on you yet but you'd better not do x" is pretty waffly. almost reads to me like she knows i'm town and would rather have others mislynch me than have to hop onto the wagon herself"

okay so you disagree with the characterizations that rumor is making here. but she's analyzing posts and providing opinions on them and then voting for those. that content might be good or bad but she can make cases. and if you think this case sucks so much that it shouldn't count, I feel like then it doesn't make sense to me why rumor would just drop her reads from before. that reads more like her just changing her mind to me

anyways I have to go now. won't be back until the evening probably.

Wait, who was this in response too?  I'm so confused.

[Refakitty³]

Actually pretty confident in my Maria case. She seems to ignore everything I said, and just stays with her own thing, by comparing me to a player from another game.

[Refakitty³]

Anyway going to bed now i'll read up tomorrow.

[No Elimination]

Spoiler

People react in all sorts of ways when there's perceived pressure on them.  I stated my suspicion on you, and your response was what I'd expect if I'd made a bad case against you, complete with a vote and a call for a turbolynch.  Emotion is a null tell.  Emotional overreaction is a scumtell, which is why I have any sort of scumread on you right now.  Honeybottom's issue was not-town reads, so a null on you.  Even if it looks head-slappingly obvious, it was more than she put out D1.  I had a problem with Grim presupposing Beppi was mafia, and that extends to you and Honeybottoms.  If she randomly drops dead during this phase and flips town, then what?

The bolded: "My response was complete with a vote and call for turbo lynch." This is just a lie. I don't really understand what you gain through this though. Is it all some reaction test? You must have known that I'd point this out?

10 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

Don't like Wally's justification for voting Djimmi.  "I didn't want him to get away with his early play" reads as inauthentic to me because "posting just for the sake of posting" is not actually scummy and "his non-case COULD come from scum" is not conclusive enough. 

Also agree w/Werner that you basically ignored the entire game in your second post, which is not good if you're going to be making posts so infrequently. 

Also of note is Wally questioning what is town about Hilda's post while also having no read on Hilda.  Interesting, that. 

Your defense about you being Rumor's 2nd strongest scumread somehow reflecting bad on her is laughable.  How do I know this?  Because you're MY second strongest scumread, and I know that I'm town.

It is scummy. It is generating fake content to seem engaged in discussion while not committing to any reads.

Is there anything you want me to address in the game? I'd rather not reread tbh it's a lot of effort and I'm still sick. It's usually worse than just engaging in discussion in real time anyway.

I can't ask about things I don't have an opinion on? If I haven't been able to read someone but others have I am naturally going to inquisitively question that. I don't know if I got a response though because I have been locked in debate.

It's not the fact that I'm her second strongest scum read, it's the fact that I'm her second strongest scumread despite the fact that I'm a null read for her. Finding me scummy isn't scummy, finding noone else scummy and not really having a strong read on me IS.

Do you have anything to say about the case itself? What do you think about the complete lack of explanations and scumreads? What about her dropping everything that she made D1, if she changed her mind she should explain that and why. (@Rumor Honeybottoms) Do you agree/disagree that her main case on Cala is based around one singular post and is very dismissive of everything in that post?

I will explain the scum intent behind each point in the spoiler so that it is clear, I think I have been talking about scum intent a lot in my posts but missing that isn't a crime:

Spoiler

No scumreads/explanation = no committals. She isn't showing any thought processes and is avoiding pushing people's buttons which can avoid discussion (it hasn't worked but that doesn't mean it can't be attempted.) Scum!Rumor can basically change her mind on any of those weak townreads on a dime as necessary for her to make the best mislynch.

No consistency/longevity in reads is bad because it's not how town usually thinks. Town investigates people and tries to prod and find out who is scum. Usually you don't drop something unless that person or someone else responds, and while changing your mind is fine, at least some acknowledgement should be made for that and an explanation is in order then, especially since she has apparently changed her mind about EVERYTHING that she though D1. This also can come from scum because it gives them freedom of vote movement which is very convenient for voting those best for them, e.g. voting Cala, their biggest counterwagon, a universal scumread and as far as I can tell, a read based off of one post. With it scum!Rumor has relieved pressure on herself and joined a wagon most people agree with. 

I explain why I think the dismissive nature of the case is likely to come from scum below. The fact that it is based around one post shows how improvisational this scum read is. There isn't much thought behind it it's just homing in on someone for making one post. Nice and easy, I suppose it could be incredibly lazy town but I don't think this is beyond scrutiny and it fits in with everything else.

 

21 minutes ago, Captain Brineybeard said:

okay so you disagree with the characterizations that rumor is making here. but she's analyzing posts and providing opinions on them and then voting for those. that content might be good or bad but she can make cases. and if you think this case sucks so much that it shouldn't count, I feel like then it doesn't make sense to me why rumor would just drop her reads from before. that reads more like her just changing her mind to me

She made ONE case that isn't so much analysis as it is just overgeneralising what someone said to make them look bad. It's very fakeable and It's very easy to make, especially given that the target is a popular scumread. If she has changed her mind she can explain as much,  you are inventing reasons for her to be town for her when she has never said anything indicating this. This is why I feel like despite the fact that you are probably the towniest person in thread on play you are Rumor's most likely scumbuddy. I also don't want another Kokichi situation though so maybe I am just being overly sceptical but I don't see why town!you benefits from inventing reasons for her to be town like this. Rumor could have just dropped her reads because she thought they were bad and the ones coming in to the thread were better for some reason. Scum aren't always going to play optimally.

25 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

@Wally Warbles Also you're definitely misrepping Rumor's post, considering her scumread on Cali wasn't based on the wagon analysis or the sheep. 

I'm definitely not.

Quote

not sure i like cala maria's latest post. first paragraph is useless fluff. second paragraph is a piggybacked read. third paragraph is what strikes me as the oddest, tbh. "i'm fine with this person voting you but i don't have thoughts on you yet but you'd better not do x" is pretty waffly. almost reads to me like she knows i'm town and would rather have others mislynch me than have to hop onto the wagon herself

The third being "the oddest" doesn't excuse the fact that she clearly doesn't like the first two. 

[No Elimination]

16 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

Wait, who was this in response too?  I'm so confused.

Me

[Kamina]

There's a lot and I haven't actually gone back and reread D1 yet, so if I forget to reply to or mention something I apologize in advance. Just shout at me and I'll get to it.

So, first off I see that Hilda's doing stuff. That's ... honestly a lot more than I expected out of them this phase. I wouldn't flip my read on them entirely, but they are a lot lower on my priority list. As to their actual content ... I don't have a problem with them not having a definite read on me yet since we were basically pissing each other off all of last phase. I know they don't seem to express suspicion of Matchstick currently, but I would like to know if the only thing about Matchstick that bothered him was the case on me. Also are you Greencapps lol

As for Matchstick, one thing that I really didn't like from them last night was that they seemed to be making too big out of a deal of some of my posts and actions like they were the scummiest thing ever. Basically, blowing things out of proportion. That still doesn't sit very well with me, but I'm willing to attribute some of that aggression to not being in a good mood. What I do want to know is how they feel about me (and my replies to them) now, and if I am still their primary scum read who their secondary scum read is and why.

Rumor just ... doesn't look any better than before. They give off this air of not efforting as much as they could, while trying to put in the least amount of effort while still looking like they're trying? If any of that made sense. It bothers me that I really can't tell who they think is scummy (besides Maria). In their reads post, it doesn't sit very well with me that they only have one person they call outright scummy, while the next scummiest person is still only "null scum", one who essentially had a barely existent D1. I'm fine with my vote on here. Also I keep thinking you're Manix, but I swear I'm not letting this affect my read on you

The interactions between Maria and Rumor are a bit ... weird. Maria's initial post that mentioned Rumor felt more like a noncommittal read. I'm not even sure what the point of bringing up Kahl's vote on them was if all they had to say about it was "in a vacuum it looks bad but it makes sense so I don't have an issue with it". That said, Rumor's jump on Maria seems like a bit of an ... overreaction? And then stuff about "I've been defending you," and "you can't be defending me if you're okay with my lynch"? Something about this feels kind of artificial. It doesn't feel like a town-town argument, it feels like there's at least one scum between these two. Or even both.

Maria herself, uh ... I'm not really impressed. Who do you think is scum? If you feel like Sally's post is bad and had scum intent, is she scum? If you thought Wally could be scum, then why didn't you vote him then? I really don't like their case on Hilda because in an anonymous game, you cannot be 100% sure who is who. Even if you accidentally found out someone's identity, it's not something that should be used against them because other players may not know for sure or have any reason to believe you. Second, just because Hilda has a similar play style to the player in question, if Hilda is not that player (and you can't say for sure they are), then comparing their play styles means nothing.

Honestly, this is the scummiest thing Maria has done because it feels like instead of bringing up an actual case on Sally or Wally they're going to point to player meta to say that Hilda's play is scum. It's lazy, and not convincing. And yes, it is that bad. I don't want to vote here because last I checked they were still at L-2, but I think they just went up in my priorities.

Sally's, um ... well. If you feel like scum is trying to jump Maria's wagon, then which votes on Maria do you feel are the scummiest? I mean, yeah, not all of the people voting them can obviously be scum along with her. So which ones are the worst? There's just ... something about the way they worded things that doesn't really sit well with me. I think it's that they state they don't feel good about the wagon, but make no effort to try to say which votes they think are bad.

I forgot that Baroness existed until like, now. Have they posted at all this phase?

Okay, I've been cut repeatedly while drafting this post and it's getting really long. I'll probably have more to say later.

 

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

@Grim Matchstick Why did you unvote Beppi and why didn't you explain that in the post where you unvoted her?

Also reread Cala's responses to solidify my position there.  I definitely don't want to lynch there, I really can't see their followup and defense coming from scum.  People who are scumreading the slot should mention how their Page 15 posts make sense as scum because I'm not seeing it.  I'd still like some responses to my issues with the slot, but that's basically a formality at this point.

[Rain Nijika]

Since a lot of people are asking me similar things, I'm just going to clearify my stance I guess:

I find Cala suspicious and would have voted there if it wasn't for her being at L-2.

My problem with the wagon is more the number of bad cases on it then that I actively scumread those cases individually. I'm somehow finding it hard to believe so many ended up on a scum slot by coincidence. Upon thinking more about it, it sounds more like me being overly paranoid though, so whatever. I should probably get of the idea everyone is playing good or something I guess.

I do actually suspect Rumor. Admitedly, he and Cala don't read like scum/scum, but I feel one of them has to be scum at this rate, so I'm questioning both of them. (So they both read scummy individually, but their interactions don't.) Yes that's convoluted and gives me an easy way to jump between wagons, fml.

22 minutes ago, Dr. Kahl said:

 

@Sally Stageplay "Alright, seems like a lot is happening now. The no night kill solidifies my town read on the captain, since other scenarios where scum misses a kill seem unlikely. It also makes me pretty certain scum doesn't have a strongman, or at least not one they could use last night for if that ever becomes relevant." Am I an idiot or did I just catch the scumslip, babyyyyyyy.  Why is it more likely that scum shot Captain over 1) shooting someone else (especially if Captain is scum) or 2) shooting a BPV? 

1) Captain felt like the only universal town read D1. While yes, scum could have decided to shoot someone else (either because captain is scum or because scum feared him being docced), but I find it unlikely that the doctor picked the same target in this case. It's possible, yes, but very unlikely, since I don't really see an obvious second place target for either. The chance of captain not being scum and the doctor deciding on a different target and guessing right feels very unlikely compared to the chance of both scum and the docter targetting Captain.

2) ....I had not considered that. I have never seen a BPV in a NOC game outside of it being on a SK, so the thought had not crossed my mind.

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

why

[Kamina]

Looking at the votes on Maria's wagon, though, I think the only one I'm iffy about is Rumor's vote because it feels like an overreaction. No issues with Cagney's vote. Captain's is also fine. Hilda and Werner's were in response to Maria's hilariously bad case on Hilda, so I can at least understand that. That said ... Werner, do you think Rumor is still scum, and what do you think of Rumor and Maria's interactions?

PEDIT: FUCK CUT BY SO MANY POSTS

[Nemu Kurotsuchi]

I'll reply later on, I don't have it in me to read through so many walls of text at the moment.  In the meantime, @Wally Warbles What are your thoughts on Sally/Hilda/Cagney?  Asking not because you haven't given them but because I at least don't remember if you have.  @Sally Stageplay If you have issues with Rumor, list out what they are because your only issue posted in your last post was a minor question.

[Refakitty³]

8 minutes ago, Beppi The Clown said:

So, first off I see that Hilda's doing stuff. That's ... honestly a lot more than I expected out of them this phase. I wouldn't flip my read on them entirely, but they are a lot lower on my priority list. As to their actual content ... I don't have a problem with them not having a definite read on me yet since we were basically pissing each other off all of last phase. I know they don't seem to express suspicion of Matchstick currently, but I would like to know if the only thing about Matchstick that bothered him was the case on me. Also are you Greencapps lol

 

Not actually asleep yet, saw this before I went. I haven't completely dropped my case on him yet, he doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot (in my eyes), but my main issue with him was his questionable case on you, which I didn't agree with. That case still isn't completely out of my head, so currently, I don't really know what to think of him and would like to see more of his thoughts. I'm afraid I cannot answer that sweetheart.

[Kamina]

2 minutes ago, Hilda Berg said:

Not actually asleep yet, saw this before I went. I haven't completely dropped my case on him yet, he doesn't seem to be doing a whole lot (in my eyes), but my main issue with him was his questionable case on you, which I didn't agree with. That case still isn't completely out of my head, so currently, I don't really know what to think of him and would like to see more of his thoughts. I'm afraid I cannot answer that sweetheart.

Okay, that's fair enough.

[Rain Nijika]

I don't like Rumor because:

1) His only real scumread dissapearing over night doesn't sit well with me.

2) Him voting the other leading wagon for a bad reason.

3) I feel a lot less sure about my argument that scum wouldn't be this obvious if they're from a different site (regarding him focussing too much on townreads). I know they wouldn't get away with it here (although I guess they almost did D1), but from what I heard different sites aren't always as good at pressuring people and demanding scumreads (the discussion with Greencapps in Kemono friends comes to mind).

If I leave the whole "too scummy to be scum" thing behind, him not even using his townreads to PoE scum down (which I feel should be the main use of townreads) is really bothering me.

 

[Kamina]

Something else I wanted to make note of, though ... Sally's whole "town read strengthened on Captain because of no kill night" and "it's too unlikely doctor saved/targeted someone else" is not a good train of thought. I mean, sure people can have their suspicions on what stopped a night kill and on who, but Sally just seems like she's way too confident in it. While I'm not actually getting scum intent from this part of their post, I would like to advise other players against this line of reasoning that leads us to declare so-and-so a more likely town reads because of currently unprovable reasons.